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Draft Thread Part 2: Bark to the Future

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Old
05-25-2013, 09:06 AM
  #201
101st_fan
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Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
Yup and our scouts still overlooked it
Overlooked or made a decision to take the risk and try to get the talent?

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05-25-2013, 09:11 AM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
Yup and our scouts still overlooked it
No they didn't. We were picking at what, 15 that year? Radolov had top 5 talent but was available at 15 bec,ause of concerns about issues that might or might not turn out to be a problem. If you're a GM you have to weigh the risk of those concerns panning out vs the benefit of getting a top 5 player with the 15th pick. Poile took a calculated risk. In then end it didn't pay off, but the knock on poile around is is usually that he's too conservative who normally drafts sure fire pluggers over high risk high reward players.

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05-25-2013, 09:14 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Overlooked or made a decision to take the risk and try to get the talent?
Flip a coin, semantics ... they decided on a guy with known behavioral problems

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05-25-2013, 09:20 AM
  #204
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It paid off briefly. There was a time in 07-08 when our top line of Dumont - Arnott - Radulov was the most productive line in the entire league. We just didn't have anyone else who could score

And that isn't semantics. "Overlooked" and "Taking a risk" are two entirely different things. They are not interchangeable. Taking a risk inherently means at least two potential outcomes were weighed, or looked at, at least one of which was a big negative.

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05-25-2013, 09:45 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
Flip a coin, semantics ... they decided on a guy with known behavioral problems
Calling those "flip a coin, semantics" is laughable. You may as well call ignorance and knowledge the same. In order to decide, one must first have and assess the information ... therefore it was not overlooked ... by your own words.

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05-25-2013, 10:48 AM
  #206
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So if radulov had these issues, I'm still happy poile took a chance rather than take a safe future plugger, hindsight is always 20-20, but he took a chance and risked it, gotta give him credit for that.

So nichushkin has none of these issues I imagine?! I must admit if he wasn't Russian I would be so torn between him and barkov I couldn't decide, I still like barkovs overall game more. And the shoulder surgery is laughable to speculate, he will be ready come September for sure.

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05-25-2013, 11:18 AM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
It paid off briefly. There was a time in 07-08 when our top line of Dumont - Arnott - Radulov was the most productive line in the entire league. We just didn't have anyone else who could score

And that isn't semantics. "Overlooked" and "Taking a risk" are two entirely different things. They are not interchangeable. Taking a risk inherently means at least two potential outcomes were weighed, or looked at, at least one of which was a big negative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Calling those "flip a coin, semantics" is laughable. You may as well call ignorance and knowledge the same. In order to decide, one must first have and assess the information ... therefore it was not overlooked ... by your own words.
We can at least agree, that it turned into a bad draft pick when you see the players drafted after the space cadet ... Krejci, Zajac, Bolland, & the epic Johan Franzen

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05-25-2013, 12:22 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
We can at least agree, that it turned into a bad draft pick when you see the players drafted after the space cadet ... Krejci, Zajac, Bolland, & the epic Johan Franzen
You mention one first rounder and he has a lower career average point per game total than Legwand. Way to dig deep to pick and choose. All you did was show how inaccurate projections of 17 and 18 yr old kids can be.

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05-25-2013, 02:10 PM
  #209
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The radulov issue was about immaturity not bolting for the khl. The KHL didn't even exist. We gambled he would still develop into an elite prospect and 1st line winger and we were right. There is no way Poile could have for seen a rival league would develop, would then poach an NHL player against ihf rules, and this league would also be able to drop 8-10 million a year on players. Yes part of that is immaturity but in this, I can't fault Poile to much.

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05-25-2013, 05:57 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
The radulov issue was about immaturity not bolting for the khl. The KHL didn't even exist. We gambled he would still develop into an elite prospect and 1st line winger and we were right. There is no way Poile could have for seen a rival league would develop, would then poach an NHL player against ihf rules, and this league would also be able to drop 8-10 million a year on players. Yes part of that is immaturity but in this, I can't fault Poile to much.
And at that, concerns over immaturity tend to be focused on the immediate years after the player is drafted. Who would have guessed that he would still have maturity issues at 26/27?

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05-25-2013, 06:10 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
And at that, concerns over immaturity tend to be focused on the immediate years after the player is drafted. Who would have guessed that he would still have maturity issues at 26/27?
I agree with that to a degree. I said as much. The concern was over him developing due to maturity not bolting to a different league for significantly more money and being the MVP periennialy. Seriously. They are related. True. But Poile guessed 100% right on radulovs ability and projection. He had no way of seeing the Khl conundrum. No one did.

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05-25-2013, 06:36 PM
  #212
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Radulov was a great pick at fifteen. Too bad the khl exists and he decided to go home for more money. Plain and simple.

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05-27-2013, 01:42 AM
  #213
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Radulov was a great pick at fifteen. Too bad the khl exists and he decided to go home for more money. Plain and simple.
It's not that simple. Radulov dropped due to character questions-- yes before the KHL existed. Character issues don't simply manifest by going to the KHL. Heck, last time he was playing in NA his character created issues. He gave us one pretty good season. For that reason it was not a good pick, and many GMs called it by letting him slip.

If Poile deserves any form of "praise" for drafting Radulov, it's totally offset by his inability to get a handle on Radulov. Poile really does not have the pulse of our players (especially star players) and that's been painfully obvious with how he mishandled Weber, Suter, Radulov. Radulov is a different scenario-- dealing a primadona -- but he failed step up and take control and Raudlov played him for a fool, twice.

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05-27-2013, 11:13 AM
  #214
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I can agree with a lot of the above. He also had some poisonous whispers in his ear in the form of an agent.

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05-27-2013, 11:29 AM
  #215
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Poile can't really control radulov, how can he control him?
He had him signed to a contract and radulov broke the deal and went to Russia. What could poile do??

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05-27-2013, 02:59 PM
  #216
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A top five talent in the mid teens is a risk well wort taking, just because it didn't work with Radulov doesn't mean we shouldn't take a risk around there again. Smart move, bad outcome.

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05-27-2013, 03:22 PM
  #217
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Thinking out loud here...

Lots of talk since the Memorial Cup of MacKinnon being the true #1 and Jones dropping a spot or two.

To Nashville: 1st overall (MacKinnon)

To Colorado: 4th overall (Jones) + something like Smith or Beck or Ellis. Maybe even Wilson.

Smith especially would make a lot of sense given his chemistry with Stastny and his inability to fit in under Trotz. And Jones obviously makes too much sense for Colorado.

Tampa supposedly has their eye on Nichushkin. And Florida would have to rate Drouin or Barkov over Jones. Lots of if's but this would be a dream scenario for me.

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05-27-2013, 03:27 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Thinking out loud here...

Lots of talk since the Memorial Cup of MacKinnon being the true #1 and Jones dropping a spot or two.

To Nashville: 1st overall (MacKinnon)

To Colorado: 4th overall (Jones) + something like Smith or Beck or Ellis. Maybe even Wilson.

Smith especially would make a lot of sense given his chemistry with Stastny and his inability to fit in under Trotz. And Jones obviously makes too much sense for Colorado.

Tampa supposedly has their eye on Nichushkin. And Florida would have to rate Drouin or Barkov over Jones. Lots of if's but this would be a dream scenario for me.
Wouldn't be willing to give up Wilson. We are gaurenteed one of Barkov, Drouin or Nich. Now Mack is the best forward in the draft going forward, but I'd be perfectly happy with any of he above mentioned players too. No need to trade away our top forward when we could be getting a ppg forward ourselves.

That said if it were Ellis, Smith, etc. yes all the way.

The thing is though, What's stopping Florida from snatching Jones from Col. They might have to give Florida an extra pick to not pick Jones.


Last edited by Soundgarden: 05-27-2013 at 03:33 PM.
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05-27-2013, 04:19 PM
  #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Thinking out loud here...

Lots of talk since the Memorial Cup of MacKinnon being the true #1 and Jones dropping a spot or two.

To Nashville: 1st overall (MacKinnon)

To Colorado: 4th overall (Jones) + something like Smith or Beck or Ellis. Maybe even Wilson.

Smith especially would make a lot of sense given his chemistry with Stastny and his inability to fit in under Trotz. And Jones obviously makes too much sense for Colorado.

Tampa supposedly has their eye on Nichushkin. And Florida would have to rate Drouin or Barkov over Jones. Lots of if's but this would be a dream scenario for me.
If Poile can pull off getting Mack without giving up Wilson, Forsberg, Josi, or obviously Weber or Rinne, that would be a game-changing scenario for us. That sounds too good to be true though, so we'll probably just go the safe route and stay put and take Barkov.

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05-27-2013, 06:47 PM
  #220
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Imagine barkov if he had drouin at his wing....

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05-27-2013, 08:19 PM
  #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Thinking out loud here...

Lots of talk since the Memorial Cup of MacKinnon being the true #1 and Jones dropping a spot or two.

To Nashville: 1st overall (MacKinnon)

To Colorado: 4th overall (Jones) + something like Smith or Beck or Ellis. Maybe even Wilson.

Smith especially would make a lot of sense given his chemistry with Stastny and his inability to fit in under Trotz. And Jones obviously makes too much sense for Colorado.

Tampa supposedly has their eye on Nichushkin. And Florida would have to rate Drouin or Barkov over Jones. Lots of if's but this would be a dream scenario for me.
Would be a dream scenario, but I have a feeling Colorado is too in love with Jones, they need a D-man and he's a hometown kid, to even risk moving all the way down to 4.

There's no guarantee Florida or perennially defense-starved Tampa wouldn't take Jones.

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05-28-2013, 06:22 AM
  #222
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Would be a dream scenario, but I have a feeling Colorado is too in love with Jones, they need a D-man and he's a hometown kid, to even risk moving all the way down to 4.

There's no guarantee Florida or perennially defense-starved Tampa wouldn't take Jones.
At this point, I'd be shocked if it didn't go Jones with the #1 and Mac at #2. After that, it's all up to Tampa. I'd imagine Drouin, but they can go with a few names.

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05-28-2013, 08:57 AM
  #223
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At this point, I'd be shocked if it didn't go Jones with the #1 and Mac at #2. After that, it's all up to Tampa. I'd imagine Drouin, but they can go with a few names.
I'm almost positive the order goes
1. Jones
2. Mackinnon
3. Drouin
4. Barkov
5. Nichushkin

Then whatever happens that I don't know, but that's easily the five elite coming out of this draft, in that order.

I'm guessing the next five to round out the top ten would be (in no order),
Monahan, Lindholm, lazar, nurse, ristolainen

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05-28-2013, 09:19 AM
  #224
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I think the only way we trade out of the 4th pick is if Jones falls to 4 and we move back one spot to 5 and draft Barkov or Nich, whichever is available. You tell team 5 that team six is offering a swap of 1sts and a 2nd or 3rd and let team 5 beat it.

and quite frankly, the 2 team needs are #4 dman and scoring forward. Jones wouldn't be a bad addition that is cost controlled for 6-7 years.

But I also stupidly believe that some of our kids are gonna develop into 20 goal scorers. (Beck, Bourque, Forsberg, Wilson)

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05-28-2013, 10:07 AM
  #225
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I think the only way we trade out of the 4th pick is if Jones falls to 4 and we move back one spot to 5 and draft Barkov or Nich, whichever is available. You tell team 5 that team six is offering a swap of 1sts and a 2nd or 3rd and let team 5 beat it.

and quite frankly, the 2 team needs are #4 dman and scoring forward. Jones wouldn't be a bad addition that is cost controlled for 6-7 years.

But I also stupidly believe that some of our kids are gonna develop into 20 goal scorers. (Beck, Bourque, Forsberg, Wilson)
I'm going to add Aberg and Budish to that list as well. Call me crazy but I think Budish is going to surprise a lot of people once he gets here, big kid, moves well for his size, soft hands, big power forward which is what you need come playoff time. As a dark horse candidate I'm going with Cehlin. Great skater. Reminds me a lot of a young Erat.

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