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Would the Habs benefit from a Heavyweight enforcer? Part 3

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05-24-2013, 11:58 PM
  #701
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The problem is that he can't play a regular shift and he is a liability. He did fill that role on a last place team last year, his first year in the NHL at 27 years of age. I've watched him here out west and he's not a hockey player, far from there.

Some people are infatuated with him because if his size, the fact that he's French Canadian and because he can fight. I'd rather Bergevin looked elsewhere.
Yes, people are infatuated with his size. Something sorely missing from this team.

Bordeleau had 70 PIM for the season. In comparison, White had 67 PIM.

White averaged a little over 9 minutes a game. Bordeleau averaged a little over 6 minutes a game.

White played in 26 games. Bordeleau in 46 games.

White had 1 point, Bordeleau had 5 points.

White cannot neutralize Thornton, Neil, Kassian or Lucic. Bordeleau can.

If we sign Bordeleau, which I do not see happening because Bergevin did nothing during the regular season, White, Moen or Armstrong becomes expendable.

Personally, Armstrong should be the one to go and Bordeleau would be a helluva winger with Moen and White or Dumont at Center.

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05-25-2013, 12:28 AM
  #702
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Yes, people are infatuated with his size. Something sorely missing from this team.

Bordeleau had 70 PIM for the season. In comparison, White had 67 PIM.

White averaged a little over 9 minutes a game. Bordeleau averaged a little over 6 minutes a game.

White played in 26 games. Bordeleau in 46 games.

White had 1 point, Bordeleau had 5 points.

White cannot neutralize Thornton, Neil, Kassian or Lucic. Bordeleau can.

If we sign Bordeleau, which I do not see happening because Bergevin did nothing during the regular season, White, Moen or Armstrong becomes expendable.

Personally, Armstrong should be the one to go and Bordeleau would be a helluva winger with Moen and White or Dumont at Center.
I suppose having Bordeleau instead of Armstrong would have resulted in propelling the Habs past the Sens.

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05-25-2013, 12:30 AM
  #703
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I suppose having Bordeleau instead of Armstrong would have resulted in propelling the Habs past the Sens.
No, but it sure would have made Prust's life easier. It also would have increased the level of respect we got from teams such as the Leafs and the Sens this year.

Having a guy like Bordeleau or any other supporting cast for Prust is one ingredients among many, many others, some of which are much more important, that will make us a more dangerous team to play against.

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05-25-2013, 05:32 AM
  #704
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I would like the habs to go after Jared Boll. He can play 10 minutes a night and not cost us games.

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05-25-2013, 05:37 AM
  #705
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No, but it sure would have made Prust's life easier. It also would have increased the level of respect we got from teams such as the Leafs and the Sens this year.

Having a guy like Bordeleau or any other supporting cast for Prust is one ingredients among many, many others, some of which are much more important, that will make us a more dangerous team to play against.
People should look a little more at the best teams instead of Sens, Leafs and the likes...

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05-25-2013, 06:29 AM
  #706
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People should look a little more at the best teams instead of Sens, Leafs and the likes...
Well before looking at the best teams we should really first start looking at beating the teams we will always meet first in the after season. At that point we try to beat them first and THEN we go meet "the best teams".

Doesnt do us a lick of good if we build a team to go against the better teams and get creamed each year by teams in our division first...



Last edited by Ice Poutine: 05-25-2013 at 07:03 AM.
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05-25-2013, 07:01 AM
  #707
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...
Bordeleau was good enough to handle 4th line minutes on arguably the worst club in the league, and all he really brought to the table was fights....
.
We also were one of the worst teams of the league last year. and our 4th line didnt magically become better because we finished higher up this year... so yeah i'd say that evaluation of 4th line talent doesnt count too much when evaluating a single player.

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05-25-2013, 10:12 AM
  #708
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We also were one of the worst teams of the league last year. and our 4th line didnt magically become better because we finished higher up this year... so yeah i'd say that evaluation of 4th line talent doesnt count too much when evaluating a single player.
this x1000.

And the 11min playing time need to stop. Even the bruins don't play their 4th line that kind of time and they have one of the best 4th line in the league.

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05-25-2013, 10:47 AM
  #709
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Yes, people are infatuated with his size. Something sorely missing from this team.

Bordeleau had 70 PIM for the season. In comparison, White had 67 PIM.

White averaged a little over 9 minutes a game. Bordeleau averaged a little over 6 minutes a game.

White played in 26 games. Bordeleau in 46 games.

White had 1 point, Bordeleau had 5 points.

White cannot neutralize Thornton, Neil, Kassian or Lucic. Bordeleau can.

If we sign Bordeleau, which I do not see happening because Bergevin did nothing during the regular season, White, Moen or Armstrong becomes expendable.

Personally, Armstrong should be the one to go and Bordeleau would be a helluva winger with Moen and White or Dumont at Center.
Both White and Armstrong are much, much better hockey players than Bordeleau and unlike the new fanboy favourite, they're no liabilities when on the ice. That's the point I'm trying to make. Bordeleau isn't a hockey player.

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05-25-2013, 11:19 AM
  #710
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At this point I want that bordeleau guy To sign just so that we can fuxkig stop talkin about it. So much bandwidth wasted on some guy that can't ****ing play the game...

'Bla bla MD y u so soff? Go hug a tree lulz'


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05-25-2013, 11:25 AM
  #711
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I still don't understand why people would be against having a player like Patrick Bordeleau on the Habs. It would be nice again to have a player that would put some fear in the opponents if they were to try something with our skill players.

Bordeleau isn't totally useless on the ice either, the guy can hit like a truck. Chipped in a couple goals as well.....I would be very happy if he was on the Habs roster next season.

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05-25-2013, 11:38 AM
  #712
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^ my problem is the obsession dedicated to a guy that, if he were from any other province/state/country, nobody would ever mention.

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05-25-2013, 12:03 PM
  #713
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
^ my problem is the obsession dedicated to a guy that, if he were from any other province/state/country, nobody would ever mention.
Fair enough point. Mcgratton would be the #1 enforcer out there this summer, but he's older and seldom mentioned.

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05-25-2013, 12:08 PM
  #714
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No, but it sure would have made Prust's life easier. It also would have increased the level of respect we got from teams such as the Leafs and the Sens this year.

Having a guy like Bordeleau or any other supporting cast for Prust is one ingredients among many, many others, some of which are much more important, that will make us a more dangerous team to play against.
Bingo. Prust was unable to physically stand up to the rigors of what he felt he needed to do over a 48 game season. Imagine what would happen to him over 82 games.
2 things most likely wouldn't have happened last season had a guy like Bordeleau been with the Habs. Prust's body wouldn't have broken down so quickly and Bourque would not have been knocked out by Orr. Both were significant events in our season.

An enforcer won't necessarily help us in the playoffs, but can sure help us stay a little healthier during the regular season. He won't be able to prevent hits like Gryba on Eller, but no way Orr gets to punch Bourque in the face.

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05-25-2013, 12:09 PM
  #715
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
^ my problem is the obsession dedicated to a guy that, if he were from any other province/state/country, nobody would ever mention.
He is a legit heavy weight that can actually hit and chip in a few goals. Maybe throw him in on the power play once in a while to cause havoc in front of the net....

Him being french is a huge bonus in Montreal. Just imagine what kind of fan fav he would be if he kicks the @#$% out of a player like Lucic/Chara.

I was damn proud of Prust this season, he was a huge part of the teams turn around. Big part of his game is toughness and the Habs with their smaller players do need some more of that to go anywhere next season.

What's the risk? He could develop to a more complete player (he's only played one season in the NHL & had the same amount of goals as Gomez ). 1 year or 2 year contract at low $$$, won't hurt our cap. Do it, if he stinks, easy dump.

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05-25-2013, 12:24 PM
  #716
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^ my problem is the obsession dedicated to a guy that, if he were from any other province/state/country, nobody would ever mention.
The thing is, if he wasn't a hometown boy it wouldn't be nearly as realistic that he'd want to leave the team that gave him a NHL chance to sign here.

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05-25-2013, 12:26 PM
  #717
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I'm sorry but thi. 'put him on the powerplay to cause havok' is absolute ********. People were ready to slash their wrists open because darche was on it. I'm calling bias on this one.

Da ****? Looch would never fight him! Why would he? Remember laraque?

Who gives a flying donkey **** where that guy is from. He's a dime a dozen lump of muscles on skates and signinh him would not change a damn thing in the context of the habs lineup. He might make a few of us feel better though. In that case I suggest a good psychologist.

**** it, more edit: i don't care either way if the habs sign him or not, I do however takes issue with the massive collective boner some of you have about a guy like bordeleau. Ridiculous. He won't fix the greater issues relating to size and toughness this team has. He's nothing more than a lolipop, the kind your doctor gives you after amputating your leg.

Brb, going to hug a beer-flavored tree


Last edited by MasterDecoy: 05-25-2013 at 12:37 PM.
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05-25-2013, 12:57 PM
  #718
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MasterDecoy....you got some issues buddy

Bordeleau is cheap and can pan out to be something that we need without costing us the bank. I'm willing to take that risk on him and I'm sure there are others that would as well. If you don't like it I suggest going to get a beer when he drops the gloves.

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05-25-2013, 01:04 PM
  #719
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I still will lean to the side that in order to best prepare for the post season, you need a mix of skill, speed, toughness and yes, fighters. I ill never change my view. I've played hockey and watched hockey my entire life, the tough guys are the most respected guys in the room for a reason, their teammates appreciate the services they provide and even if doesn't provide tangible results necessarily, which is debatable anyways, it does influence the minds and perception of their teammates, mental and psychological aspects are very important, if the players feel they are getting a lift from these guys then if it is true to them it is most likely helpful whether what they believe to be true is actually happening or not.

Every one can pretend these guys are professional and no emotion or psychological elements take place, but it's simply foolish to agree with that.

Sending a message or protecting young players from getting beaten might seem pointless and childish to some, but in a team sport like hockey it can go along way to bringing the room together. If you know every shift that there are guys willing to leave it all on the line for you, you will go out of your way to reciprocate and you end up building a cohesive unit. It's about room building more than anything. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours, it's been missing on this team for all too long. Ptaches drvies me mad, gallagher getting shoved, punched, kicked, crosschecked and he just routinely skates away, back the young guy up, bring the team together. Prust can't play every shift.

Edit: And yes, I know Gallagher will continue going back regardless, but that misses the point. The little things go along way, they motivate others to do the same, the guys on the bench will see the message and do the same thing when it's their turn, trust will be established and the players will go to war for each other. Too many times we go through the motions, we need a tough guy to set a fire under the *****. It works, I know it works, I've seen it and witnessed it in my own games.

I think this is a great post and bears repeating.

Whether we like it or not, it's going to take more than an offseason to sprinkle more grit throughout the lineup. It's going to be an ongoing process, especially when every other team is looking for the same in their top-6 and top-4.

So why not have a heavyweight in the meantime, while actively seeking some quality sandpaper? It's a very low risk fix given the cost of an enforcer. At worst you have, at max, $1 Million sitting in the pressbox, at best you start changing the makeup of the team and encourage its players to play with more grit.

At this point, I don't think Bergevin can afford to not add toughness to the lineup somehow. Opposing teams will have taken notice on how Ottawa handled the Habs (pound them to get them off their game, survive the first period). Whether it would have worked with a healthy Habs lineup is beside the point. Those with the size and toughness will try in future playoffs.

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05-25-2013, 01:27 PM
  #720
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MasterDecoy....you got some issues buddy

Bordeleau is cheap and can pan out to be something that we need without costing us the bank. I'm willing to take that risk on him and I'm sure there are others that would as well. If you don't like it I suggest going to get a beer when he drops the gloves.
Issues?

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If you don't like it I suggest going to get a beer when he drops the gloves
no. I am tired, fed up really with the notion that if you don't want a useless piece of meat on skates that can only fight and not much else, you are branded as 'having issues', or 'not liking fighting'.

****

off

it's a stupid generalization that is made around here like somehow not wanting a goon = not liking fights.

Yes, I am out at a bar between DJ sets and yes I am drunk enough to be annoyed by this nonesense. It's not a zero sum game. And sadly, only a very, very small amount of posters here relialize this. Sports is an emotional thing and very few people can break it down well enough to make sense of it all. Look at any gdt if you want any proof.

As my last word on this: my kind of fourth line is boston's. A guy that will (to varying degrees of success) take on anybody. A good middleweight and a speedy lightweight. But what do they have in common? THEY CAN ****ING PLAY!

Cheers. Don't feel like proof reading this masterpiece

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05-25-2013, 02:10 PM
  #721
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I still don't understand why people would be against having a player like Patrick Bordeleau on the Habs. It would be nice again to have a player that would put some fear in the opponents if they were to try something with our skill players.

Bordeleau isn't totally useless on the ice either, the guy can hit like a truck. Chipped in a couple goals as well.....I would be very happy if he was on the Habs roster next season.
Nobody is against getting a decent hockey player who can fight on the 4th line. But there seems to be some debate on whether Bordeleau is a decent hockey player to begin with. Personally I haven't seen enough of him to judge. If he's a good 4th line player, then great sign him, if he's not a good hockey player then we should pass.

By the way enforcers don't strike fear in their opponents.

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05-25-2013, 02:25 PM
  #722
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Bingo. Prust was unable to physically stand up to the rigors of what he felt he needed to do over a 48 game season. Imagine what would happen to him over 82 games.
2 things most likely wouldn't have happened last season had a guy like Bordeleau been with the Habs. Prust's body wouldn't have broken down so quickly and Bourque would not have been knocked out by Orr. Both were significant events in our season.

An enforcer won't necessarily help us in the playoffs, but can sure help us stay a little healthier during the regular season. He won't be able to prevent hits like Gryba on Eller, but no way Orr gets to punch Bourque in the face.
Prust has fought a lot even when on teams with heavyweight enforcers and looking at his fights per season he's around where he's been the past 3 seasons. If anything the condensed schedule played a bigger reason in him breaking down. And Bourque would still have been KOed because he went to defend a teammate.

If having a heavweight enforcer really reduced injuries then you would be able to look at the past 10+ years worth on NHL data and see a correlation.


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Originally Posted by CloudReader View Post
I think this is a great post and bears repeating.

Whether we like it or not, it's going to take more than an offseason to sprinkle more grit throughout the lineup. It's going to be an ongoing process, especially when every other team is looking for the same in their top-6 and top-4.

So why not have a heavyweight in the meantime, while actively seeking some quality sandpaper? It's a very low risk fix given the cost of an enforcer. At worst you have, at max, $1 Million sitting in the pressbox, at best you start changing the makeup of the team and encourage its players to play with more grit.

At this point, I don't think Bergevin can afford to not add toughness to the lineup somehow. Opposing teams will have taken notice on how Ottawa handled the Habs (pound them to get them off their game, survive the first period). Whether it would have worked with a healthy Habs lineup is beside the point. Those with the size and toughness will try in future playoffs.
Are you seriously suggesting that teams will have finally reached an epiphany and suddenly say to themselves I know how to beat the Habs, let's goon it up. We have been a "soft" team for over a decade. Teams have been saying to themselves for years that you have to hit and be physical against us. In fact teams say that's what they have to do to beat every other team in the league as well.

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05-25-2013, 03:40 PM
  #723
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Well before looking at the best teams we should really first start looking at beating the teams we will always meet first in the after season. At that point we try to beat them first and THEN we go meet "the best teams".

Doesnt do us a lick of good if we build a team to go against the better teams and get creamed each year by teams in our division first...


Bruins did that for a while, they have about 30 years of moral victories to show for it...

Leafs dont even have moral victories...

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05-25-2013, 06:02 PM
  #724
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Are you seriously suggesting that teams will have finally reached an epiphany and suddenly say to themselves I know how to beat the Habs, let's goon it up. We have been a "soft" team for over a decade. Teams have been saying to themselves for years that you have to hit and be physical against us. In fact teams say that's what they have to do to beat every other team in the league as well.
When was the last time the team completely lost their composure and totally got thrown off their game? This might have been the opponent's game plan for a long time now, but it has never worked so well or at all until now.

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05-25-2013, 06:18 PM
  #725
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Nobody is against getting a decent hockey player who can fight on the 4th line. But there seems to be some debate on whether Bordeleau is a decent hockey player to begin with. Personally I haven't seen enough of him to judge. If he's a good 4th line player, then great sign him, if he's not a good hockey player then we should pass.

By the way enforcers don't strike fear in their opponents.
Where is this "decent hockey player who can fight" player at?

Thornton leaving Boston? Neil leaving Ottawa? There arent too many of them around and I know that you realize that because it gives you some sense of credibility wishing for something that you cannot have.

Enforcers dont strike fear in their opponents. They only fight guys like Neil and Thornton who do take liberties with the Habs skill players. A simple concept that you continue to ignore.

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