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2013 NHL Draft Thread III (6/30, 3PM EDT)

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Old
05-24-2013, 06:52 PM
  #376
slightlystewpid420
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
I might do that if Lindholm was still available.
No, no, no.

Can Lindholm shut down Crosby?Malkin?Staal?Datsyuk? Cause that's Johansens role next season. Hes already at the elite level defensively at 20yrs old, that itself is worth more than a 7th. Hes got at least 2-3 yrs of offensive growth...Johansen is more than capable of putting puck in the back of the net, its a little hard to score when you're playing on the shutdown line against the NHL's top players...and to finish the season on the + side of his +/- is pretty ****ing impressive.

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05-24-2013, 07:01 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by slightlystewpid420 View Post
No, no, no.

Can Lindholm shut down Crosby?Malkin?Staal?Datsyuk? Cause that's Johansens role next season. Hes already at the elite level defensively at 20yrs old, that itself is worth more than a 7th. Hes got at least 2-3 yrs of offensive growth...Johansen is more than capable of putting puck in the back of the net, its a little hard to score when you're playing on the shutdown line against the NHL's top players...and to finish the season on the + side of his +/- is pretty ****ing impressive.
You might want to read the post I was quoting if you haven't already. It isn't just Johansen for Lindholm.

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05-24-2013, 07:02 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by slightlystewpid420 View Post
No, no, no.

Can Lindholm shut down Crosby?Malkin?Staal?Datsyuk? Cause that's Johansens role next season. Hes already at the elite level defensively at 20yrs old, that itself is worth more than a 7th. Hes got at least 2-3 yrs of offensive growth...Johansen is more than capable of putting puck in the back of the net, its a little hard to score when you're playing on the shutdown line against the NHL's top players...and to finish the season on the + side of his +/- is pretty ****ing impressive.
I wouldn't say Johansen is better than Anisimov defensively and maybe not Dubinsky either. Really all three are very good, and Anisimov had the hardest zone starts this year, not Johansen.

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05-24-2013, 07:11 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by slightlystewpid420 View Post

. Hes already at the elite level defensively at 20yrs old

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05-24-2013, 07:12 PM
  #380
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Elias Lindholm has to be available at #7 to make a trade. Let the Oilers deal with Johansen's bad attitude. Lindholm will be a stud.

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05-24-2013, 07:30 PM
  #381
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This is a list that I would use. Just my opinion.

1 Seth Jones
2 Nathan Mackinnon
3 Jonathan Drouin
4 Alexsander Barkov
5 Elias Lindholm
6 Sean Monahan
7 Max Domi
8 Alexander Wennberg
9 Hunter Shinkaruk
10 Darnell Nurse
11 Bo Horvat
12 Nikita Zadorov
13 Valery Nichushkin
14 Josh Morrissey
15 Valentin Zykov
16 Rasmus Ristolainen
17 Adam Erne
18 Morgin Klimchuk
19 Curtis Lazar
20 JT Compher
21 Shea Theodore
22 Ryan Hartman
23 Anthony Mantha
24 Fredrik Gauthier
25 Ryan Pulock
26 Kerby Rychel
27 Mirco Muller
28 Sam Morin
29 Robert Hagg
30 Jimmy Lodge

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05-24-2013, 07:52 PM
  #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofpuck View Post
This is a list that I would use. Just my opinion.

1 Seth Jones
2 Nathan Mackinnon
3 Jonathan Drouin
4 Alexsander Barkov
5 Elias Lindholm
6 Sean Monahan
7 Max Domi
8 Alexander Wennberg
9 Hunter Shinkaruk
10 Darnell Nurse
11 Bo Horvat
12 Nikita Zadorov
13 Valery Nichushkin
14 Josh Morrissey
15 Valentin Zykov
16 Rasmus Ristolainen
17 Adam Erne
18 Morgin Klimchuk
19 Curtis Lazar
20 JT Compher
21 Shea Theodore
22 Ryan Hartman
23 Anthony Mantha
24 Fredrik Gauthier
25 Ryan Pulock
26 Kerby Rychel
27 Mirco Muller
28 Sam Morin
29 Robert Hagg
30 Jimmy Lodge
For awhile, this made sense ... and then it didn't make sense anymore. Right around #7.

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05-24-2013, 08:38 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by kingofpuck View Post
This is a list that I would use. Just my opinion.

1 Seth Jones
2 Nathan Mackinnon
3 Jonathan Drouin
4 Alexsander Barkov
5 Elias Lindholm
6 Sean Monahan
7 Max Domi
8 Alexander Wennberg
9 Hunter Shinkaruk
10 Darnell Nurse
11 Bo Horvat
12 Nikita Zadorov
13 Valery Nichushkin
14 Josh Morrissey
15 Valentin Zykov
16 Rasmus Ristolainen
17 Adam Erne
18 Morgin Klimchuk
19 Curtis Lazar
20 JT Compher
21 Shea Theodore
22 Ryan Hartman
23 Anthony Mantha
24 Fredrik Gauthier
25 Ryan Pulock
26 Kerby Rychel
27 Mirco Muller
28 Sam Morin
29 Robert Hagg
30 Jimmy Lodge
I can see where you are going with a lot of this list. The parts I really don't gel with are having Hartman, Mantha, Gauthier and Pulock that late in the round, well after Morrissey, Erne and Klimchuk.

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05-24-2013, 08:40 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
I find myself drawn more and more toward Max Domi. I know he is on the rise and is becoming less likely to be on the board at 14, but it would please me greatly were he to be.
I'm a little optimistic he might be there.

While offensively he's been great, Domi has a -9 in +/- at the Memorial Cup. His weakness is in his own zone, and he has all the eyes on him now. The question is if GMs and scouts start nitpicking his game.

He's rather small (the combine should shed light on exactly how small) and he also has Type 1 Diabetes. Cory Conacher is also diabetic, but you never know how teams are going to consider a player with a serious but controllable illness.

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05-24-2013, 09:01 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by major major View Post
I can see where you are going with a lot of this list. The parts I really don't gel with are having Hartman, Mantha, Gauthier and Pulock that late in the round, well after Morrissey, Erne and Klimchuk.
Hartman is a solid prospect and gets under peoples skin, just don't know if the offense is there. Mantha reminds me too much of Picard (really scares me in that way). Gauthier doesn't have the offense for a high pick. Pulock is a good all around defenseman but don't see him being elite in the NHL. Morrissey has high skills and skating. Erne is a beast that can fly. Klimchuck is offensive on a poor team (sounds like a good fit).

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05-24-2013, 09:22 PM
  #386
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Hartman is a solid prospect and gets under peoples skin, just don't know if the offense is there. Mantha reminds me too much of Picard (really scares me in that way). Gauthier doesn't have the offense for a high pick. Pulock is a good all around defenseman but don't see him being elite in the NHL. Morrissey has high skills and skating. Erne is a beast that can fly. Klimchuck is offensive on a poor team (sounds like a good fit).
Too many things wrong with your reasoning here to list. Hartman's offensive game isn't what sets him apart, but there is plenty of upside there. For me, he looks like a good second line prospect, a 25/25/150 PIM sort of player; the type of guy that we had a ton of success with this year. Comparing Mantha to Picard is only fair in the essence that both are big, skilled wingers who put up a ton of shots on goal in their draft year. The difference is, Mantha scored 50 goals this year as a 17 year old, whereas 18 year old Picard in his draft year only scored 39. Mantha has a better release, better hands down low, and far superior hockey sense than Picard did.

For Pulock, from what you've said here, it seems like you've never seen him play. He has most of the tools to be a far above average defender in the NHL - including a terrific shot. Putting Morrissey ahead of him on your list is borderline crazy. Morrissey's skating is strong, his puck moving is good, but defensively he's a liability, and will require a ton of work just to be an NHL player. As one of the biggest Morgan Klimchuk supporters on these boards (even wrote a feature on him), putting him in the top-20 is not something I feel safe doing. I thought he had a great year, produced a lot more than I expected - but his upside is similar to Hartman, and he's far less a sure thing because he has to produce offensively to be in the lineup.

The logic just doesn't make sense on a lot of what you said. I get liking certain players more than others, but moving them ahead of guys who are clearly better now - and have higher upside - is an odd choice.

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05-24-2013, 09:28 PM
  #387
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Gosh I can't wait until the draft.

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05-24-2013, 09:46 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Too many things wrong with your reasoning here to list. Hartman's offensive game isn't what sets him apart, but there is plenty of upside there. For me, he looks like a good second line prospect, a 25/25/150 PIM sort of player; the type of guy that we had a ton of success with this year. Comparing Mantha to Picard is only fair in the essence that both are big, skilled wingers who put up a ton of shots on goal in their draft year. The difference is, Mantha scored 50 goals this year as a 17 year old, whereas 18 year old Picard in his draft year only scored 39. Mantha has a better release, better hands down low, and far superior hockey sense than Picard did.

For Pulock, from what you've said here, it seems like you've never seen him play. He has most of the tools to be a far above average defender in the NHL - including a terrific shot. Putting Morrissey ahead of him on your list is borderline crazy. Morrissey's skating is strong, his puck moving is good, but defensively he's a liability, and will require a ton of work just to be an NHL player. As one of the biggest Morgan Klimchuk supporters on these boards (even wrote a feature on him), putting him in the top-20 is not something I feel safe doing. I thought he had a great year, produced a lot more than I expected - but his upside is similar to Hartman, and he's far less a sure thing because he has to produce offensively to be in the lineup.

The logic just doesn't make sense on a lot of what you said. I get liking certain players more than others, but moving them ahead of guys who are clearly better now - and have higher upside - is an odd choice.
Good stuff....The more I think about this draft, the more likely I think it might be that we end up taking a defenseman like Pullock or Ristolen, Zadorov with the 14th pick. I think the BPA value will be with Defenseman at that spot (just a hunch).

If we do take a Dman first, the second 2 will certainly be C/W...100 percent certainty lol

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05-24-2013, 10:03 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Too many things wrong with your reasoning here to list. Hartman's offensive game isn't what sets him apart, but there is plenty of upside there. For me, he looks like a good second line prospect, a 25/25/150 PIM sort of player; the type of guy that we had a ton of success with this year. Comparing Mantha to Picard is only fair in the essence that both are big, skilled wingers who put up a ton of shots on goal in their draft year. The difference is, Mantha scored 50 goals this year as a 17 year old, whereas 18 year old Picard in his draft year only scored 39. Mantha has a better release, better hands down low, and far superior hockey sense than Picard did.

For Pulock, from what you've said here, it seems like you've never seen him play. He has most of the tools to be a far above average defender in the NHL - including a terrific shot. Putting Morrissey ahead of him on your list is borderline crazy. Morrissey's skating is strong, his puck moving is good, but defensively he's a liability, and will require a ton of work just to be an NHL player. As one of the biggest Morgan Klimchuk supporters on these boards (even wrote a feature on him), putting him in the top-20 is not something I feel safe doing. I thought he had a great year, produced a lot more than I expected - but his upside is similar to Hartman, and he's far less a sure thing because he has to produce offensively to be in the lineup.

The logic just doesn't make sense on a lot of what you said. I get liking certain players more than others, but moving them ahead of guys who are clearly better now - and have higher upside - is an odd choice.
I don't see that production out of Hartman, that is saying 50 points. That is like a leading scoring on a team like ours at this point. I thought Picard was even more dangerous at his draft eligible age. They both have the same on ice attitude, big, Mantha is a better skater but is playing on a better team.

You are right, I haven't actually seen Pulock play. I've read multiple people say that his skills aren't elite and his game will be hard to translate at the next level. And from all the videos I've watched his skating isn't that great. Junior dominance (especially by defenseman) doesn't mean NHL star. Morrissey and Klimchuck impressed me a lot at the U18's.

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05-25-2013, 12:26 AM
  #390
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Winterhawks down the Knights:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/junio...ance-to-final/

So if I don't have sportsnet, how do I get to see the final? This is the sort of thing that we need a resident pirate for.

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05-25-2013, 08:53 AM
  #391
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From Hockey Buzz

Bill Meltzer, Flyers blogger, put together a listing of defensemen who might be draft-worthy later in the draft:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=51755

Provides info on many names new to me, so I thought I'd share. Forwards to come.

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05-25-2013, 09:30 AM
  #392
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My fallback first round option, i.e. "if we draft the player with the best name," for 2013 is Rasmus Ristolainen.

Of course, if we had followed this prescription every year since I started picking one of these in 2003, the CBJ's first-round pick history would look like (and yes, I realize not all of these players were actually available when the CBJ drafted):
Dion Phaneuf
Boris Valabik
Marek Zagrapan (by a hair over Devin Setoguchi, we needed a center)
Kyle Okposo
Kevin Shattenkirk
Luca Sbisa/Michael Del Zotto
David Rundblad (John Moore, ugh, boring)
Nino Niederreiter
Mika Zibanejad
Hampus Lindholm (lot of good names in this draft, though - Ryan Murray not among them)

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05-25-2013, 10:42 AM
  #393
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Hey SL, just wondering what your opinion is of Kerby Rychel? Would he be a guy you'd take a look at with our LA pick, or even the NYR pick? He seems to me like a fairly overlooked player coming up to the draft, even though he's a two time 40 goal scorer already, and is mostly ranked right around the end of the 1st round.

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05-25-2013, 10:44 AM
  #394
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Because its a slow. rainy day where I am and because I'm bored I offe rthe following draft picks based on DSL's methodology:

For enforcers:

Will Butcher
Maxime Gravel

For agitators:

JC Lipon
Robert Lipsberg

For a good room guy

Michael Joly

For lovers of sophmoric potty humor:

Jason Fuchs

For the other team so the agitators have someone to work on:

Connor Honey

And just because

Bogden Yakimov

All of the above were selected either from Pronman's Top 250 prospects or the D list above.

Author note Some poetic license on the pronunciation side is required to get full benefit of the name

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05-25-2013, 01:39 PM
  #395
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Originally Posted by kingofpuck View Post
I don't see that production out of Hartman, that is saying 50 points. That is like a leading scoring on a team like ours at this point. I thought Picard was even more dangerous at his draft eligible age. They both have the same on ice attitude, big, Mantha is a better skater but is playing on a better team.

You are right, I haven't actually seen Pulock play. I've read multiple people say that his skills aren't elite and his game will be hard to translate at the next level. And from all the videos I've watched his skating isn't that great. Junior dominance (especially by defenseman) doesn't mean NHL star. Morrissey and Klimchuck impressed me a lot at the U18's.
So a guy who is a consensus top-25 pick doesn't have 50 point upside in your mind? And again comparing Mantha to Picard - I get where you're coming from; but all I can say is what I did say; Mantha scored 11 more goals, a year sooner, and won't be drafted as high as Picard. For me, though I'm not terribly high on him, I think he's worth a look at the 19 spot.

As for the WHL guys, it's also clear to me that you're basing your input off of very limited footage, but these are players that I see on a nightly basis. That's a horrible way to judge prospects... I can put together a highlight reel of goals by Stanislav Chistov if you would like ... some of them even scored in the NHL. That doesn't make him better than a guy who was picked one spot after him, who has quietly had a very solid NHL career. Don't base things on limited footage, for your own good. You mentioned that Klimchuk was a solid scorer on a poor team; what about Ryan Pulock, who actually tied for his team's lead in points (45) from the blueline? He factored in on nearly 25% of his team's scoring this year, as well as being a big contributor in his own end. In fact, he finished only one point behind your preferred player here, Josh Morrissey, who was on a far better team. Your argument is with little merit ... this is one that you won't convince me otherwise on - particularly not the WHL guys - because I just know more about them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJ Scruffy View Post
Hey SL, just wondering what your opinion is of Kerby Rychel? Would he be a guy you'd take a look at with our LA pick, or even the NYR pick? He seems to me like a fairly overlooked player coming up to the draft, even though he's a two time 40 goal scorer already, and is mostly ranked right around the end of the 1st round.
Rychel is one of those guys that definitely has goal scoring potential, but he reminds me a little bit of a guy that used to play here in Spokane, Drayson Bowman. He's a guy that has to be scoring to be effective, so the upside with him is about the only thing you can really draft upon. The 94 penalty minutes is a solid indication on his compete level, but his defensive zone play needs a ton of work, and he has to find ways other than goal scoring to be effective. If he can be taught, and develops properly, then he's a guy that many people could look back upon and wonder why he was passed over so many times. He could go sooner, or he could fall out of the first round entirely - it's all in whether or not a team is higher on him than others. I don't like using our picks on him at the spots we are selecting, because I don't think he fits the mold of what we're building around ... which is solid all-around play.

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05-25-2013, 04:43 PM
  #396
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So a guy who is a consensus top-25 pick doesn't have 50 point upside in your mind? And again comparing Mantha to Picard - I get where you're coming from; but all I can say is what I did say; Mantha scored 11 more goals, a year sooner, and won't be drafted as high as Picard. For me, though I'm not terribly high on him, I think he's worth a look at the 19 spot.

As for the WHL guys, it's also clear to me that you're basing your input off of very limited footage, but these are players that I see on a nightly basis. That's a horrible way to judge prospects... I can put together a highlight reel of goals by Stanislav Chistov if you would like ... some of them even scored in the NHL. That doesn't make him better than a guy who was picked one spot after him, who has quietly had a very solid NHL career. Don't base things on limited footage, for your own good. You mentioned that Klimchuk was a solid scorer on a poor team; what about Ryan Pulock, who actually tied for his team's lead in points (45) from the blueline? He factored in on nearly 25% of his team's scoring this year, as well as being a big contributor in his own end. In fact, he finished only one point behind your preferred player here, Josh Morrissey, who was on a far better team. Your argument is with little merit ... this is one that you won't convince me otherwise on - particularly not the WHL guys - because I just know more about them.
50 points is a big number and just because you are a consensus first round pick doesn't mean you put up big numbers. And much like how you get to watch the WHL, I get to watch the QMJHL. Mantha is overrated IMO. And how is reading scouting reports and watching videos a bad way to judge a prospect? You only have to see a guy skate down the ice once to see how he skates, and these are supposed to be their best moments.

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05-25-2013, 05:06 PM
  #397
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50 points is a big number and just because you are a consensus first round pick doesn't mean you put up big numbers. And much like how you get to watch the WHL, I get to watch the QMJHL. Mantha is overrated IMO. And how is reading scouting reports and watching videos a bad way to judge a prospect? You only have to see a guy skate down the ice once to see how he skates, and these are supposed to be their best moments.


I'll answer the only relevant question that you posed. I've watched easily over 150 WHL games this year, in full. The rest of your post is so short-sighted that it doesn't even merit a response.

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05-25-2013, 06:54 PM
  #398
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I've noticed on the trade boards a lot of Oiler fans would rather trade down for guys like Lazar and Gauthier if Monahan is gone by 7. If Lindholm is available there would we want to do the 14th and 18th for the 7th?

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05-25-2013, 07:14 PM
  #399
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SoreLoser, appreciate your input here. Admittedly, like a lot of us here, I don't start watching junior hockey until I start thinking about the draft.

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05-25-2013, 07:22 PM
  #400
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I've noticed on the trade boards a lot of Oiler fans would rather trade down for guys like Lazar and Gauthier if Monahan is gone by 7. If Lindholm is available there would we want to do the 14th and 18th for the 7th?
I think that is too rich a package, maybe the 14th and the Kings' pick. However, right now I think the Oilers are more likely going to overpay in an effort to move up for Barkov.

BTW, RANGERS LOSE.

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