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The Michael Del Zotto is a delsaster.

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Old
05-26-2013, 07:08 AM
  #76
SomebodySaveKreider
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So much hyperbole being thrown around in this thread.

I'd trade DZ in the right deal, but I wouldn't just cut bait with him. Also you wouldn't get great value since his stock is probably pretty low after these playoffs.

And for the love of God, Staal is NOT overrated.

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05-26-2013, 07:46 AM
  #77
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Staal isnt overrated because he's shown what hes capable of when healthy.

I just think (speaking of David Shaw and Barry beck) hes going to be one of those coulda-woulda-shoulda guys.

A healthy top-4 of Girardi-McDonagh and Staal-MDZ (if he moves) is something you dont **** with.

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05-26-2013, 08:09 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Staal isnt overrated because he's shown what hes capable of when healthy.

I just think (speaking of David Shaw and Barry beck) hes going to be one of those coulda-woulda-shoulda guys.

A healthy top-4 of Girardi-McDonagh and Staal-MDZ (if he moves) is something you dont **** with.
Personally, if Stralman is healthy, MDZ is a #5 on this team

Girardi - McD
Staal - Stralman
MDZ - Moore

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05-26-2013, 08:20 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Personally, if Stralman is healthy, MDZ is a #5 on this team

Girardi - McD
Staal - Stralman
MDZ - Moore
If he stays, he has to play on the 3rd pair, but roll 3 pairs, don't wear out Staal, McD, and Girardi

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Old
05-26-2013, 08:43 AM
  #80
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Del Zotto isnt the problem. Keep him and sign Cumiskey. Get rid of Hamerlik and Richards and we will be fine. Staal, MCD, Girardi, Stralman, Eminger, Moore, Cumiskey and Del Zotto would be an okey defense.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=10405

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05-26-2013, 09:04 AM
  #81
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The injury defense for keeping MDZ is ridiculous.

Its the equivalent of saying the rangers should get lindy ruff to be a backup coach in case Torts gets hit with a puck.

How about they trade all their forwards for Jonathan Quick in case the king gets hurt?


Or how about they trade a supposed ODman who is terrible at both O and D?

They would still have 5 top 4 Dmen. If depth is that much of an issue sign a FA or two. Hell Eminger outplayed MDZ in the playoffs.

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Old
05-26-2013, 09:11 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomebodySaveKreider View Post
So much hyperbole being thrown around in this thread.

I'd trade DZ in the right deal, but I wouldn't just cut bait with him. Also you wouldn't get great value since his stock is probably pretty low after these playoffs.

And for the love of God, Staal is NOT overrated.
I agree with everything said in this post. Whom do people think we're going to upgrade MDZ with? He's a very tradeable asset if the right deal comes along, but he's not someone you get rid of in an "addition by subtraction" sense.

With all our D healthy, he either makes for a good pairing with Staal (they play well together) or is on the bottom pairing. How many teams would kill to have MDZ and Moore as their bottom 2?

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Old
05-26-2013, 09:57 AM
  #83
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To all the guys saying we need MORE defensemen....really? Guys....we HAVE to trade some of our defensive depth if we're going to win the cup. What's our problem year in and year out? WE CAN'T SCORE IN THE PLAYOFFS. Other than Rick Nash, who on our offense significantly scares the other teams? Callahan? Brassard? No way.

To me it's a no brainer, we MUST trade one of our Dmen to get another winger that can score and can compliment Nash on the 1st line. With two goal-scoring threats on the first line, it's tougher to defend against it because teams wouldn't be able to double up Nash. We can't continue to rely on Hagelin/Zuccarello or even Callahan to be our 2nd best winger on this team. I think the two guys that have the most trade value (other than McD) are Staal and Girardi..but Girardi is a RHD and has a cheaper contract. Please don't say "Just resign Clowe and our problems will be fine," he's not a goalscorer. Personally, I'd trade MDZ or Staal if it was up to me. Staal might bring more though, but he'd of course be a bigger loss on D.

WE NEED OFFENSE. We have the best goaltender in the world, need to pot some for him night in and night out. Trade Staal or MDZ for a younger (26-28) winger who can score 25-30 goals every year. Because other than Rick Nash...do we have anyone who can come close to scoring 30 goals every regular season? MAYBE Callahan but that's a stretch.

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05-26-2013, 10:01 AM
  #84
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Also...this year proved to me that Staal is not the best all-around Dman we have. And it's not because Staal played bad, it's because McDonagh was a warrior down the stretch. He's also good offensively when he joins the rush and can get shots through from the point.

Mark my words, McDonagh will be a Top-10 defenseman in this league in 2-3 years, Top-5 when he's in his prime. He's the closest thing I've ever seen to Brian Leetch. Torts has to let him be more aggressive and join the rush.

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05-26-2013, 10:04 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by zuckera1 View Post
Also...this year proved to me that Staal is not the best all-around Dman we have. And it's not because Staal played bad, it's because McDonagh was a warrior down the stretch. He's also good offensively when he joins the rush and can get shots through from the point.

Mark my words, McDonagh will be a Top-10 defenseman in this league in 2-3 years, Top-5 when he's in his prime. He's the closest thing I've ever seen to Brian Leetch. Torts has to let him be more aggressive and join the rush.
McDonagh is already a top 10 Dman in this league. He just isnt that confident yet offensively. He is easily the rangers best player (outside of the King)

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05-26-2013, 10:09 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
McDonagh is already a top 10 Dman in this league. He just isnt that confident yet offensively. He is easily the rangers best player (outside of the King)
I can agree with that. I'd go...

1) Hank
2) Nash
3) McD

But in a few years, McD and Nash will swap places. I'm due for a new Rangers jersey this Summer, and I'm stuck between getting a Hank or McD jersey. I was a goalie all my life, so I'm leaning Hank but I love McD. Maybe I'll wait till they resign McD to decide. Any advice?

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05-26-2013, 10:31 AM
  #87
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I would trade Staal before MDZ. First and foremost problem with our scoring issues is the head coach. You can't score with 3 forwards going against 5 skaters on the other team. Your D need to be in on the offense. As much as you guys love Staal he brings no offense. Plus he is injury prone. Listen, I'm not saying he's soft or anything bc I know how tough these guys are etc etc pc pc.. But after he got the puck to the face and starting kicking his legs like a child that rubbed me the wrong way.. Yeah I know I'll get flamed/hated for that but idc that's how I feel. MDZ got stabbed in the ribs with a skate, you saw Stepan get blasted in the face yesterday too and they didn't act like that.
MDZ's D game has improved over the years and if he can put his shot on goal consistently his offense will greatly help this team once the coaching problem is fixed.

McD - Gir
Moore - Stralman
MDZ - Eminger

If you can upgrade via ufa the RD 3 spot great and Eminger, who gets too much hate IMO, can be used as spare. Plus you have your guy that was drafted over Cam Fowler who might make it to the NHL one day too...

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Old
05-26-2013, 10:45 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Staal isnt overrated because he's shown what hes capable of when healthy.

I just think (speaking of David Shaw and Barry beck) hes going to be one of those coulda-woulda-shoulda guys.

A healthy top-4 of Girardi-McDonagh and Staal-MDZ (if he moves) is something you dont **** with.
I disagree to an extent. Its something you mess with if you can replace Del Zotto with a real offensive defenseman. Del Zotto does not have the IQ, foot speed, or composure to be the player we need. That doesn't mean he isn't valuable. It just means he isn't what we need. IMO John Moore is someone to move forward with, more so than Del Zotto.

We need a defenseman that takes ownership of the puck, has the IQ, vision, foot speed, and composure to gain control of the puck, skate it through the neutral zone, establish entry into the offensive zone and start creating. Del Zotto doesn't have that ability.

Ideally this candidate would be right-handed. Ryan Murphy, Mathew Dumba, Adam Clendening, Ryan Sproul, Cody Ceci.

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Old
05-26-2013, 11:01 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by puckrush View Post
I disagree to an extent. Its something you mess with if you can replace Del Zotto with a real offensive defenseman. Del Zotto does not have the IQ, foot speed, or composure to be the player we need. That doesn't mean he isn't valuable. It just means he isn't what we need. IMO John Moore is someone to move forward with, more so than Del Zotto.

We need a defenseman that takes ownership of the puck, has the IQ, vision, foot speed, and composure to gain control of the puck, skate it through the neutral zone, establish entry into the offensive zone and start creating. Del Zotto doesn't have that ability.

Ideally this candidate would be right-handed. Ryan Murphy, Mathew Dumba, Adam Clendening, Ryan Sproul, Cody Ceci.
Personally, I think their primary need defensively is a guy who can shoot the puck at the points on the PP.

I don't think they need an elite puck carrying Dmen which is EXTREMELY hard to come by. They already have some pretty good skating Dmen.

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Old
05-26-2013, 11:05 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Deric View Post
But after he got the puck to the face and starting kicking his legs like a child that rubbed me the wrong way...
Im assuming you also think kreider is soft after he got high sticked and did the same thing?

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Old
05-26-2013, 11:33 AM
  #91
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With a healthy Staal our top 6 is as good as anyones. MDZ and Moore in the bottom-2 is one of the best bottom-2's in the league. Moore can bail DZ out with his skating more often then not which would allow DZ to take more chances. Staal going down made DZ play top-4 minutes when realistically he should be our #5.

Trading Staal is just ridiculous. He is essential to this teams success. And no, he is not ****ing injury prone. Injury prone is a guy that pulls a hammy or a groin all the time. Injury prone is someone who's body cant take the punishment of an 82 game season without falling apart consistently. Staal had two freak accidents; Besides for that he has been a warrior for this team.

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Old
05-26-2013, 12:03 PM
  #92
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This situation reminds me a lot of Sergei Zubov. Offensive defenseman who was over matched physically in a '95 second round sweep by the Flyers. Rangers gave up on him that off-season and it haunted us for years.

Not saying DZ is on Zubov's level offensively, clearly Zubov was in a different class as a true PP specialist. But every time there's talk of trading DZ because he's mentally weak and hasn't been able to handle rough teams like Boston this year and NJ last year, I just always think of Zubov.

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05-26-2013, 12:21 PM
  #93
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This situation reminds me a lot of Sergei Zubov. Offensive defenseman who was over matched physically in a '95 second round sweep by the Flyers. Rangers gave up on him that off-season and it haunted us for years.

Not saying DZ is on Zubov's level offensively, clearly Zubov was in a different class as a true PP specialist. But every time there's talk of trading DZ because he's mentally weak and hasn't been able to handle rough teams like Boston this year and NJ last year, I just always think of Zubov.

The fan base also gave up on Girardi three years ago when he refused to fight to protect Gaborik. I distinctly remember most people on this forum calling for him to be traded.

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05-26-2013, 12:27 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
Im assuming you also think kreider is soft after he got high sticked and did the same thing?
Kreider proved being soft during the regular season. Had nothing to do with a high stick though, just the way he plays.

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05-26-2013, 12:55 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Sticky Fingers View Post
Kreider proved being soft during the regular season. Had nothing to do with a high stick though, just the way he plays.
Go ask Dennis Seidenberg if Kreider is soft.

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05-26-2013, 01:09 PM
  #96
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to anyone who wants to trade staal before del zotto,

staal was 10th in points on this team despite only playing 21 games. he was also scoring at a 43 point pace, while dz was scoring at 37 point pace. staal was better offensively this season than del zotto and defensively it wasnt even close. so why the hell would we trade staal over del zaster?

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05-26-2013, 01:12 PM
  #97
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I have been saying for some years (To the irritation of some) that Del Zotto is very overrated.

He just barely pulled 40 points playing an enormous amount of power play time. I wanted Stralman, not Del Zotto manning the PP this season and as we see; he had a very mediocre season offensively, and was replaced on the PP.

He has, however made great strides defensively. He looked pretty good, except them they forced him to the right hand side of the ice, which he seems to be much less comfortable with.

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05-26-2013, 01:20 PM
  #98
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Trade Staal talk to me is crazy.

It's night and day the difference he makes to the Rangers defensive unit. "We've survived without him" is not a compelling argument. What does "survived" mean? If it means still being several hopes and prayers away from a Cup than I wouldn't be a fan of continuing to sign up for that. Yes, let's go through another year with Hamrlik/Bickel making crucial mistakes in the POs. Soundslike a great plan.

"We've survived without him" should be rephrased as "I kinda forget how good he is".

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05-26-2013, 01:29 PM
  #99
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Everyone healthy means:

Left side--Staal, McDonagh, Moore, Del Zotto
Right side-Girardi, Stralman.

Waiting in the wings on the right side is McIlrath.

Del Zotto's played on the right side but he's much better on the left. He did not have a very good playoffs--generated little offense and had numerous defensive breakdowns. He was wilting under pressure.

I don't think there are very many people calling him a bust--even if the same are looking to move him. Like any other player you move him for the right return. If you don't get that then you don't move him.

The one thing I would point out is the overbalance of left to right side d-men which is why I wouldn't move either Girardi or Stralman--and good right side defensemen are not easy to find. I'm looking at righty shooting UFA d-men and it begins and just about ends with Ben Lovejoy. As to the comment that we need Del Zotto around for depth--???? Del Zotto is too good a player to be kept around for depth--same with Moore. Personally at this point I prefer all of Staal, McDonagh (and those two aren't even close) and Moore to Del Zotto. If we're looking at this recent debacle of a series if there was any d-man leading our offense it was McD and IMO McD is as capable of putting up just about the same offense over the course of a season as MDZ and provide much better defense as well.

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05-26-2013, 01:33 PM
  #100
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The fan base also gave up on Girardi three years ago when he refused to fight to protect Gaborik. I distinctly remember most people on this forum calling for him to be traded.
That was one situation (and I agree that it was ******** reasoning for anyone that wanted Girardi out). I actually think that Del Zotto is relatively physical and all-around, is a very decent defenseman (when he isn't in Del Zaster mode). Bottom Line, Del Zotto can't be our #1 PPQB moving forward, either being displaced by McD (which I think is a legit option), or bring one in via free agency or trade ( I agree with the Mark Streit option).

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