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Sebastian Collberg signed to 3 year Entry Level Contract

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Old
05-23-2013, 12:27 PM
  #101
Et le But
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Comparing Collberg to players who already made the NHL isn't fair. Gallagher is significantly older, and Galchenyuk is the best prospect this organization has had in a generation. And Collberg has the tools to be better than Gallagher - not saying he will be, since Gallagher is awesome, but Collberg has the tools, and most of his weaknesses right now are common in young snipers.

Why shouldn't we hype our best prospects? Because he's a European who fell in the draft, and is therefore the second coming of Kostitsyn? Collberg is up there with Beaulieu and Tinordi for me. I project Collberg as a high end 2nd liner, I'm not sure what's so ridiculous about that.

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05-23-2013, 01:29 PM
  #102
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For starters, I don't think you're really saying much to begin with. And that's fine to say with reservations.
For starters, you didn't answer the question, I was just wondering what you thought when you watched him play in the SEL or Hamilton. I mean I assume that when someone calls a high draft pick overrated around here I would assume that they are doing so based off watching them in league play. I realize the sample size is small especially for the Dogs but I was interested to know just how many games you have seen him play in those leagues.

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I honestly don't see how his play in the SEL is really relevant (even in the Allsvenskan), considering ice-time, role and the fact he's not playing in the same setting people are expecting him to excel in (North America, and the NHL, of course).
How would his play in the SEL NOT be relevant? Isn't that why we are here, to talk about how the prospects look in the games they play? Seems like a very odd comment to make, how can you consider him overrated on one hand but not talk about his play on the other.

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Hamilton doesn't really matter because of sample size. He's going to be hit a lot more, have much less time with the puck and play more games, so we'll see how he does over a long period of time. The flip side is we can't really judge what he has done negatively because of said sample size and adaptation period.
sure it's a small sample size but I just wanted to know if you saw him play there or not. If the flip side is we can't judge him negatively, isn't that what you are doing by saying he's overrated?

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The whole point is that the guy is a very good prospect that hasn't made any significant mark. He's not on the Galchenyuk and Gallagher tier (when drawing comparison to what he can bring the organization in the short term), not yet.
Depends on what your definition of significant is. He's already made a name for himself at the WJC's and with a big tournament could put him high up on the all time U-20 scorers list for Team Sweden. He hasn't done much in the SEL going into this season since he was held pointless but the fact that he saw time in the SEL at 16 should be at least somewhat sigificant. Of course he's not on Galchenyuk's tier, very very few players are and Gallagher it's debatable since you should be looking at Gallagher as an 18 year old not what he's doing in the NHL now since that's after several more years of development that Collberg hasn't had yet. Not fair to compare that way.

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He fell in the draft for a reason (I can't say I really know that much, I'm guessing size was a significant factor, but most likely other players rose while his stock stagnated or dropped, other teams preferred other players, etc.). It's not the first time a guy drops and does well, but we've had our share of guys that drop and are absolute steals at our position, only turn up to fall way short of expectations (Kostitsyn and Chipchura are notable examples).
players fall at the draft, it happens. I wouldn't hold it against him though, where a player is drafted ends up just being a number, it's what you have that matters like getting Subban at 43rd overall. In the end it doesn't matter where he was picked just what he can do for the team. Also not fair to bring up Kostitsyn/Chipchura since both fell for medical reasons.

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The sentiment in this place is usually to massively overrate a guy when they see him speed his way around the ice and dangle the puck a bit. Pack in reports of offensive talent, add the European name, and boom, we got ourselves not only a steal, but a future (insert solid offensive European player). That's what bothers me. I guess Collberg has at least a decent draft position and resume to at least provide some kind of solid grounds to believe he's going to be very good. He's still not an elite level prospect, not yet
Once again it comes down to definition. Many will vary on their definition of what an elite prospect is, i don't think anyone called him elite though so not sure why you bring that up. Also this is HF, over-reacting, overhyping, etc.... this is how it always goes, we'll see what happens on the ice over time.

For me Collberg is easily one of our top prospects, but I don't think that's saying that much as I don't think our prospect pool is all that deep with talent. Since Gally and Gallagher are in the NHL, I don't count them as prospects, so for me the top forward prospects are Kristo, Collberg and Hudon. I really like all 3 despite all having different holes in their game. All are skilled offensively and use their speed well, hopefully for the Habs they get at least one or more that turn into solid NHLers in the future as they all have interesting qualities that may turn into something. Perhaps Bozon works his way into the group as well, or if Leblanc gets back on track in a big way.

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05-23-2013, 04:12 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
For starters, you didn't answer the question, I was just wondering what you thought when you watched him play in the SEL or Hamilton. I mean I assume that when someone calls a high draft pick overrated around here I would assume that they are doing so based off watching them in league play. I realize the sample size is small especially for the Dogs but I was interested to know just how many games you have seen him play in those leagues.



How would his play in the SEL NOT be relevant? Isn't that why we are here, to talk about how the prospects look in the games they play? Seems like a very odd comment to make, how can you consider him overrated on one hand but not talk about his play on the other.




sure it's a small sample size but I just wanted to know if you saw him play there or not. If the flip side is we can't judge him negatively, isn't that what you are doing by saying he's overrated?



Depends on what your definition of significant is. He's already made a name for himself at the WJC's and with a big tournament could put him high up on the all time U-20 scorers list for Team Sweden. He hasn't done much in the SEL going into this season since he was held pointless but the fact that he saw time in the SEL at 16 should be at least somewhat sigificant. Of course he's not on Galchenyuk's tier, very very few players are and Gallagher it's debatable since you should be looking at Gallagher as an 18 year old not what he's doing in the NHL now since that's after several more years of development that Collberg hasn't had yet. Not fair to compare that way.



players fall at the draft, it happens. I wouldn't hold it against him though, where a player is drafted ends up just being a number, it's what you have that matters like getting Subban at 43rd overall. In the end it doesn't matter where he was picked just what he can do for the team. Also not fair to bring up Kostitsyn/Chipchura since both fell for medical reasons.



Once again it comes down to definition. Many will vary on their definition of what an elite prospect is, i don't think anyone called him elite though so not sure why you bring that up. Also this is HF, over-reacting, overhyping, etc.... this is how it always goes, we'll see what happens on the ice over time.

For me Collberg is easily one of our top prospects, but I don't think that's saying that much as I don't think our prospect pool is all that deep with talent. Since Gally and Gallagher are in the NHL, I don't count them as prospects, so for me the top forward prospects are Kristo, Collberg and Hudon. I really like all 3 despite all having different holes in their game. All are skilled offensively and use their speed well, hopefully for the Habs they get at least one or more that turn into solid NHLers in the future as they all have interesting qualities that may turn into something. Perhaps Bozon works his way into the group as well, or if Leblanc gets back on track in a big way.
Thank you for your voice of reason in a thread that was being over run by people who don't understand the game and base their opinions SOLELY on stats.

I haven't seen a lot of Collberg other than the WJC's and Hamilton but I am not disappointed at all. His skillset seems to be as advertised and his compete level should allow him to maximize his potential. The key with him simply appears to be a lack of strength and a need to bulk up a bit which applies to 99% of 18 year old hockey players.

The funny part of this is that if Collberg was tearing up the CHL, his current detractors would be his biggest fanboys. This definitively shows that these people simply are unable to evaluate a players skillset by watching him. Like most, they simply look at stats and then form an opinion to match the stats.

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Old
05-23-2013, 05:23 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLP View Post
In today's NHL 5'11 is small. I think we Habs fans have grown so accustomed to smurfs that we regard 6ft as "big," but IMHO in the rest of the league it's from about 6'2" that big begins.

Not trolling I have high hopes for Collberg but he is small. Does not mean he can't find a place on our roster but we'd be smart to balance things out -- add a small guy and lose another small guy, like Gallagher coming in after Gomez was bought out.
The average height of the tallest team is 6'2".

http://mirtle.blogspot.ca/2013/01/20...t-and-age.html

I don't know how accurate it is tho.

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05-23-2013, 06:00 PM
  #105
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To all those going nuts about me saying that he needs to work on his skating: I did not say he was a bad skater. All I am saying is that with the type of game he plays (YES I SAW HIM PLAY?!?!) he will need to be above average/close to elite IN THE NHL. Stop going all defensive on a prospect all the time geez. If you want him to perfom in a top 6 role, his skating is definitely not there yet given the type of game he plays.

And yes 5'11 is smallish in the nhl. Doesn't mean he can't bulk up and stay his ground. Maybe the average is under 6'2 but I'd be surprised if the defencemen are under 6'2.

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05-23-2013, 06:09 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Thank you for your voice of reason in a thread that was being over run by people who don't understand the game and base their opinions SOLELY on stats.

I haven't seen a lot of Collberg other than the WJC's and Hamilton but I am not disappointed at all. His skillset seems to be as advertised and his compete level should allow him to maximize his potential. The key with him simply appears to be a lack of strength and a need to bulk up a bit which applies to 99% of 18 year old hockey players.

The funny part of this is that if Collberg was tearing up the CHL, his current detractors would be his biggest fanboys. This definitively shows that these people simply are unable to evaluate a players skillset by watching him. Like most, they simply look at stats and then form an opinion to match the stats.
I am not a fanboy. I am a fan of the Canadiens and any player who wears the sweater, I will pull for them to succeed.

If Collberg makes it on the Canadiens roster, I will hope he succeeds just like every other Habs player.

Surely the standard swings both ways. I questioned Collberg because his stats are not that great. Should that disallow me from hoping that he succeeds if/when he becomes a Hab?

And on the other hand, if people were excited and hyping Avstin, should they continue to be excited and hype Avstin now and in to the future?

There will always be people who have a different opinion than you.

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05-24-2013, 09:08 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by domdo345 View Post
To all those going nuts about me saying that he needs to work on his skating: I did not say he was a bad skater. All I am saying is that with the type of game he plays (YES I SAW HIM PLAY?!?!) he will need to be above average/close to elite IN THE NHL. Stop going all defensive on a prospect all the time geez. If you want him to perfom in a top 6 role, his skating is definitely not there yet given the type of game he plays.

And yes 5'11 is smallish in the nhl. Doesn't mean he can't bulk up and stay his ground. Maybe the average is under 6'2 but I'd be surprised if the defencemen are under 6'2.
Yes. Defensemen may average 6'2. I suspect top-6 forwards may average
under 6'1. Certainly players under 6 feet are more likely to make the NHL if
they can play on the top 2 lines.

But what I'm wondering about Collberg's skating is; When did you see him play?
Because there was a time, I think around Dec, when others mentioned that he
wasn't using his speed as well as he did in the past.
Lack of ice-time, and therefore maybe confidence, could have been a factor in
this. Maybe over-thinking the game.

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05-25-2013, 06:07 PM
  #108
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Recent video of Collberg:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTwt2Q65QqA

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05-25-2013, 06:19 PM
  #109
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I like what i see.

Can't wait to see what he can do with regular amounts of ice time. I cant remember a recent time where we had so many bright prospects at one time, with more to come this summer.

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05-26-2013, 05:14 AM
  #110
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Yes. Defensemen may average 6'2. I suspect top-6 forwards may average
under 6'1. Certainly players under 6 feet are more likely to make the NHL if
they can play on the top 2 lines.
Very good point....I suspect you are absolutely correct.

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05-26-2013, 06:13 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Very good point....I suspect you are absolutely correct.
Just looking at players 6' and under:
St-Louis, Stamkos, Crosby, Kane, Kunitz, Kessel, Datsiuk, Ribeiro, Giroux, Zetterberg, Tavares.

I just listed 11 of the top-20 scorers last season.

Interesting most of the top-20 are 6' and under.
But at the same time: most of the top-20 are 6' and more.

5 are under 6', 6 are 6' and 9 are over 6'.

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05-26-2013, 06:51 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Just looking at players 6' and under:
St-Louis, Stamkos, Crosby, Kane, Kunitz, Kessel, Datsiuk, Ribeiro, Giroux, Zetterberg, Tavares.

I just listed 11 of the top-20 scorers last season.

Interesting most of the top-20 are 6' and under.
But at the same time: most of the top-20 are 6' and more.

5 are under 6', 6 are 6' and 9 are over 6'.
No surprise a lot of tall players are under 6'0".

Even though it helps to be 6'4", ~75% of men are shorter than 6'1", and only ~5% of men are 6'4" or taller, so the former talent pool is 15 times more numerous even as the latter talent pool has a head start.

References:
1) http://www.google.com.au/imgres?um=1...klIGAAw&zoom=1

2) http://www.johndcook.com/mixture_distribution.html

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05-26-2013, 09:45 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I am not a fanboy. I am a fan of the Canadiens and any player who wears the sweater, I will pull for them to succeed.

If Collberg makes it on the Canadiens roster, I will hope he succeeds just like every other Habs player.

Surely the standard swings both ways. I questioned Collberg because his stats are not that great. Should that disallow me from hoping that he succeeds if/when he becomes a Hab?

And on the other hand, if people were excited and hyping Avstin, should they continue to be excited and hype Avstin now and in to the future?

There will always be people who have a different opinion than you.
I know this was 3 days ago but his stats aren't bad. 9 points may seem really low but in the SEL It's really not so bad. Guys making strides.

Haven't watched him in The SEL though.

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05-26-2013, 09:59 AM
  #114
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Oh you meant this prospect forum?


Collberg highlights:
I don't know much about Collberg other than what I've seen of him in international play, but his wrist shot/release seem very similar to Gally's, and his move's in the shootout are similar as well. The similarities here are striking, at least from the little I have seen from him.

Does he have the same IQ offensively as Gally?

Before I get attacked I was only comparing the similarities in their shots/shootout moves, I am in no way suggesting Collberg == Gally.


Last edited by habsfanatics: 05-26-2013 at 10:09 AM.
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05-26-2013, 10:01 AM
  #115
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We have 2 shootout monsters in Galchenyuk and Collberg... wonder who could be the third kid that would make us the most dangerous shootout team in thw nhl.... if price dont screwup like in the past...

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05-26-2013, 10:34 AM
  #116
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We have 2 shootout monsters in Galchenyuk and Collberg... wonder who could be the third kid that would make us the most dangerous shootout team in thw nhl.... if price dont screwup like in the past...
Dagenais

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05-26-2013, 10:43 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I am not a fanboy. I am a fan of the Canadiens and any player who wears the sweater, I will pull for them to succeed.

If Collberg makes it on the Canadiens roster, I will hope he succeeds just like every other Habs player.

Surely the standard swings both ways. I questioned Collberg because his stats are not that great. Should that disallow me from hoping that he succeeds if/when he becomes a Hab?

And on the other hand, if people were excited and hyping Avstin, should they continue to be excited and hype Avstin now and in to the future?

There will always be people who have a different opinion than you.
People hyped Emelin, Subban, Gallagher, Pacioretty, S.Kostitsyn, Grabovski, etc too. Hype doesn't always fail.

There will always people who'll like to discuss prospects in a positive manner and evidently also people who want to poop on their party.

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05-26-2013, 12:29 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
People hyped Emelin, Subban, Gallagher, Pacioretty, S.Kostitsyn, Grabovski, etc too. Hype doesn't always fail.

There will always people who'll like to discuss prospects in a positive manner and evidently also people who want to poop on their party.
You call it poop on their party.

I prefer the word reality.

Once Collberg starts lighting the lamp and scoring points, start pumping his tires. Until then, it looks fanboyish.

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05-26-2013, 12:34 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
You call it poop on their party.

I prefer the word reality.

Once Collberg starts lighting the lamp and scoring points, start pumping his tires. Until then, it looks fanboyish.
So until a prospect starts scoring a ton we can't discuss his strengths and flaws?

What's this website called again? hockeyspresent.com ?

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05-26-2013, 12:39 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
You call it poop on their party.

I prefer the word reality.

Once Collberg starts lighting the lamp and scoring points, start pumping his tires. Until then, it looks fanboyish.
So you're saying that MacKinnon is a bust until he proves otherwise in the NHL?

Not sure if you've seen Collberg play, but he's a pretty good player.

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05-26-2013, 12:46 PM
  #121
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So until a prospect starts scoring a ton we can't discuss his strengths and flaws?

What's this website called again? hockeyspresent.com ?
I did bring up his biggest flaw. His lack of point production.

You can go back in this thread to see how bringing up a flaw of Collberg is received on this forum.

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05-26-2013, 12:48 PM
  #122
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I did bring up his biggest flaw. His lack of point production.

You can go back in this thread to see how bringing up a flaw of Collberg is received on this forum.
It's not a lack of production, it's called playing over your level. I mean, at comparable age, Galchenyuk and Gallagher were playing junior against players of similar age.

Collberg plays in the SEL.

Not sure if you get the correlation or not but Collberg plays in a man's league.

edit : I realize that Galchenyuk is about the same age as Collberg, lolme. But then again, not everyone develops at the same pace and who knows what COllberg would have done in the NHL...

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05-26-2013, 12:54 PM
  #123
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It's not a lack of production, it's called playing over your level. I mean, at comparable age, Galchenyuk and Gallagher were playing junior against players of similar age.

Collberg plays in the SEL.

Not sure if you get the correlation or not but Collberg plays in a man's league.

edit : I realize that Galchenyuk is about the same age as Collberg, lolme. But then again, not everyone develops at the same pace and who knows what COllberg would have done in the NHL...
I get what you are saying.

I just want to see Collberg producing points "in a man's league" before getting excited about his future with the Habs.

Kudos to Collberg in playing up. Now lets see some results.

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05-26-2013, 12:58 PM
  #124
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Yeah for that we can only wait until next season :shakesfist: Le me mad, why u no start now?!?!??

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05-26-2013, 12:59 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I did bring up his biggest flaw. His lack of point production.

You can go back in this thread to see how bringing up a flaw of Collberg is received on this forum.
Give it a rest.

He is a kid playing on a veteran roster in a men's league.....and a low scoring league at that.

Perhaps we should just fire all of our scouts and draft the players with the highest point totals because they couldn't possibly have any flaws.

As of right now Collberg is intriguing due to his skillset. It is possible that he could be a bust but it is also possible that he could become a strong top 6 forward in the NHL. His current stats have absolutely no bearing on his potential and you don't need to look any further then Daniel Alfredsson for a point of comparison.

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