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The 2013 NHL Entry Draft [Part V] From Optimism To Bipolarism

View Poll Results: Pre-Memorial Cup, who do you want?
1st: Barkov, Aleksander [C] 5 2.50%
1st: Drouin, Jonathan [W] 6 3.00%
1st: Jones, Seth [D] 148 74.00%
1st: MacKinnon, Nathan [C/W] 34 17.00%
1st: Nichushkin, Valeri [W] 2 1.00%
1st: Other Player[List Below] 1 0.50%
------------------------------------(Matrix Line)------------------------------------ 19 9.50%
2nd: Burakowsky, Andre [LW] 13 6.50%
2nd: Carrier, William [LW] 3 1.50%
2nd: Dauphin, Laurent [C] 5 2.50%
2nd: Duclair, Anthony [RW] 6 3.00%
2nd: Heatherington, Dillon [D] 5 2.50%
2nd: Klimchuk, Morgan [C] 25 12.50%
2nd: Lehkonen, Artturi [RW] 8 4.00%
2nd: Morin, Samuel [D] 5 2.50%
2nd: Mueller, Mirco [D] 13 6.50%
2nd: Petan, Nicolas [C] 13 6.50%
2nd: Theodore, Shea [D] 20 10.00%
2nd: Zykov, Valentin [LW] 22 11.00%
2nd: Other Player[List Below] 5 2.50%
2nd: Trade it for proven talent 4 2.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 200. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-26-2013, 11:45 AM
  #726
RockLobster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iracundia View Post
You don't validate any of your argument by using the "you haven't watched many games" lame statement.

You need to listen to the interview again because Foote is quite clear in what he is saying about the CURRENT D on the Avs and the LACK OF a #1 #2 or#3 D man. EJ has been mostly mediocre since he has been here. Obviously you are a believer in EJs imaginary awesomeness. That's your choice. Either way, time will tell.
I "don't validate any of my argument by using the 'you haven't watched many games' lame statement"?

I'll let the video evidence speak for itself







One from his days on the Blues


So again, you obviously haven't watched many games since we acquired him, or if you have you haven't paid attention.

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Last edited by RockLobster: 05-26-2013 at 11:52 AM.
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05-26-2013, 12:00 PM
  #727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
I "don't validate any of my argument by using the 'you haven't watched many games' lame statement"?

I'll let the video evidence speak for itself







One from his days on the Blues


So again, you obviously haven't watched many games since we acquired him, or if you have you haven't paid attention.
cool 4 hits in 327 games or 1 good highlight hit every 82 games. I can post Matt Hunwicks amazing goal against the Rangers last year. I guess that makes Hunwick is the next Bobby Orr.... Got ya

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05-26-2013, 12:01 PM
  #728
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EJ sure can throw a big hit, but he does that pretty rarely and it takes someone to really piss him off to bring out the nasty in him. He should play more on the edge than he did thus far in his career.

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05-26-2013, 12:07 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Iracundia View Post
cool 4 hits in 327 games or 1 good highlight hit every 82 games. I can post Matt Hunwicks amazing goal against the Rangers last year. I guess that makes Hunwick is the next Bobby Orr.... Got ya
Oh right...I forgot that just because I only posted 4 hits that means that he's only ever given 4 hits in his entire career! Silly me

I should have known better than to actually respond by showing proof that he can "lay people out" because you would just come up with snarky replies when you're proven wrong. I guess being proven wrong just brings it out in you.

Good try on attempting to throw Hunwick's name in there as a mean's to justify your already false statement, which again if you forgot what it was, here it is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iracundia
The only "Big bruiser" aspect of EJ's game is when he goes in for a big hit, misses, and impales himself into the boards and injures himself. He's done this multiple times BTW (Vancouver, Minnesota). EJ rubs out forwards at times but i cant even remember any large hits by EJ.
Thanks for playing though.

***EDIT***

Let my attempt to clear something up, so that way there's no misunderstandings.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion on EJ, whether you think he's good or bad or if you have no feelings on him whatsoever. I wasn't trying to take issue with you personally, but I did feel that you were wrong with saying that you "couldn't remember any large hits by EJ", and I felt that it was just necessary to remind you of some of them that he's had (albeit not all of them).

He plays better when given more minutes, we've seen that in the past. That's why I don't think he'll lose out minutes to Barrie, who's a fine defenseman in his own right, but if we're honest, he's more offensive, which is fine, we need PMD's and offensive thinkers on the back-end.

So I'm just trying to clear the air here, carry on as you'd please.


Last edited by RockLobster: 05-26-2013 at 12:23 PM.
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05-26-2013, 12:13 PM
  #730
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EJ sure can throw a big hit, but he does that pretty rarely and it takes someone to really piss him off to bring out the nasty in him. He should play more on the edge than he did thus far in his career.
I personally don't measure a defenseman's success by how many large hits he delivers. EJ is good down low and tough in the corners, hard to play against.

From his return from his wrist injury in December of 2011 through the end of the 2011-2012 year he was playing phenomenal. The lockout shortened season was hard on him, and his injuries didn't help either.

But I swear, it's like if the guy doesn't walk on water and turn it (water) into wine then quite a number of people on here are like "OMG, EJ is teh worstez!" (for the record, I'm not saying that you are one of those people Ivan).

If EJ always went for the big hit, he'd be putting himself out of position, and then those same people would be howling for him to choose his big hits more wisely.

He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

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05-26-2013, 12:14 PM
  #731
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EJ doesn't go for big open ice hits all that much, but uses his size well along the boards.

Anyway, drafting Jones shouldn't have any implications for EJ/Barrie/Elliott or any useful defender for a couple of years. After that you take inventory and figure out where you want to go.


Last edited by Freudian: 05-26-2013 at 12:21 PM.
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05-26-2013, 12:14 PM
  #732
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I'm starting to see why Blues fans hated Erik Johnson so much around the time of the trade.

All I can say is I'm glad the Avalanche will probably be drafting Seth Jones.

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05-26-2013, 12:20 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
Oh right...I forgot that just because I only posted 4 hits that means that he's only ever given 4 hits in his entire career! Silly me

I should have known better than to actually respond by showing proof that he can "lay people out" because you would just come up with snarky replies when you're proven wrong. I guess being proven wrong just brings it out in you.

Good try on attempting to throw Hunwick's name in there as a mean's to justify your already false statement, which again if you forgot what it was, here it is



Thanks for playing though.
Never thought my replies were snarky in any way. I'm having a discussion thats all. I'm sorry you took it another way.

Anyways I see your strong belief in EJ and his abilities. Unfortunately I don't share the same belief in him. The great thing is now we can both sit back and see how the new regime sees EJ over the next few seasons, if he's still here.

And thanks for letting me play you really showed me.

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05-26-2013, 12:22 PM
  #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
I personally don't measure a defenseman's success by how many large hits he delivers. EJ is good down low and tough in the corners, hard to play against.

From his return from his wrist injury in December of 2011 through the end of the 2011-2012 year he was playing phenomenal. The lockout shortened season was hard on him, and his injuries didn't help either.

But I swear, it's like if the guy doesn't walk on water and turn it (water) into wine then quite a number of people on here are like "OMG, EJ is teh worstez!" (for the record, I'm not saying that you are one of those people Ivan).

If EJ always went for the big hit, he'd be putting himself out of position, and then those same people would be howling for him to choose his big hits more wisely.

He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.
Neither do I, but there's no denying he plays better when he's angry and you can't say he's been good this past season either. I think he'll bounce back, but this past season wasn't all that good.

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05-26-2013, 12:25 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by Iracundia View Post
Never thought my replies were snarky in any way. I'm having a discussion thats all. I'm sorry you took it another way.

Anyways I see your strong belief in EJ and his abilities. Unfortunately I don't share the same belief in him. The great thing is now we can both sit back and see how the new regime sees EJ over the next few seasons, if he's still here.

And thanks for letting me play you really showed me.
Please see my Edit to my post (I was hoping that I got it in before a reply, but alas I was too slow).

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05-26-2013, 12:29 PM
  #736
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Neither do I, but there's no denying he plays better when he's angry and you can't say he's been good this past season either. I think he'll bounce back, but this past season wasn't all that good.
No, he wasn't that great this past season, but I do legitimately believe that it was as a result of the lockout and the injuries he sustained.

We did get to see what he's capable of, only in a couple of games though it seemed, and those games were usually the ones where he played the most of any defender.

That was one of the more mind-boggling things that Sacco did, only allowing an average of about 20-22 min a night for EJ. A guy with his abilities should be consistently pushing towards 27-30 min a night, because we all saw that he tended to play better when given those minutes.

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05-26-2013, 12:52 PM
  #737
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I agree we should start drafting guys like kassian, jessiman, and other big player. Forget scouting just measure a player's heights at the combine and draft him.
According to Moneyball it's that easy.

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05-26-2013, 10:41 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
And he's on his 2nd team now and hasn't made that much of an impact.

He's still young, at 23, so I'm hoping he does, but it's not looking good for him right now.
i'm just talking about talent wise in their draft year. i can't agree that both were more talented than Turris. he definitely has not lived up to expectations, i was simply saying i think that Turris was at least as talented as those two in his draft year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicianHishon View Post
So, Drouin won the chl mvp. First draft eligible player since Crosby apparently.

Where's your messiah now?
waiting to be selected #1 overall by the Colorado Avalanche

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05-27-2013, 03:47 AM
  #739
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So let's hope the Memorial Cup hurt Jones stock enough to make Jones the clear #3 and the Avs trade down to Tampa.

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05-27-2013, 08:47 AM
  #740
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So let's hope the Memorial Cup hurt Jones stock enough to make Jones the clear #3 and the Avs trade down to Tampa.
And than the next call would be Stevie Y calling Sakic what he would offer for the #1 pick because he would like to trade down and take Jones because they really don't need another center

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05-27-2013, 08:52 AM
  #741
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Well neither do we at the moment

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05-27-2013, 10:44 AM
  #742
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Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 3 min
Pre-Memorial Cup, significant majority of scouts (say 6 of 10) I talk to had Jones at No. 1 but some had MacKinnon or Drouin 1st (two each).

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 32 s
Post-Memorial Cup, one scout who had Jones No. 1 switched to MacKinnon and two others wanted to "think about it" some more.

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 2 min
Some scouts have Drouin ahead of MacKinnon, and vice vera obviously, and I know at least one who has Aleksander Barkov ahead of both of them


Last edited by InjuredChoker: 05-27-2013 at 10:54 AM.
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05-27-2013, 10:54 AM
  #743
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Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 3 min
Pre-Memorial Cup, significant majority of scouts (say 6 of 10) I talk to had Jones at No. 1 but some had MacKinnon or Drouin 1st (two each).

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 32 s
Post-Memorial Cup, one scout who had Jones No. 1 switched to MacKinnon and two others wanted to "think about it" some more.
Dam. Bigger reaction than I would have guessed. 1 switching, two thinking about it? Pretty crazy. Can you say hypeeeee train!

Like I said in another thread I can't trust stuff like this tho. 10 scouts is a ridiculously small sample size as well. Truth is it seemed like Mackinnon was the favorite going into the year, Jones played very well and became the favorite. I'm sure alot of people kept Mac at number 1 in there minds, while some might have had Jones as numero uno all along. That to me makes it a tight race for number 1, which I think there talent indicates from the get go.

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05-27-2013, 11:22 AM
  #744
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Originally Posted by ANewHope View Post
Dam. Bigger reaction than I would have guessed. 1 switching, two thinking about it? Pretty crazy. Can you say hypeeeee train!

Like I said in another thread I can't trust stuff like this tho. 10 scouts is a ridiculously small sample size as well. Truth is it seemed like Mackinnon was the favorite going into the year, Jones played very well and became the favorite. I'm sure alot of people kept Mac at number 1 in there minds, while some might have had Jones as numero uno all along. That to me makes it a tight race for number 1, which I think there talent indicates from the get go.
Depends. They might be head amateur scouts or something like that.. but on the other hand, one has to wonder why would they change their opinion bc of few games.

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05-27-2013, 11:37 AM
  #745
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Depends. They might be head amateur scouts or something like that.. but on the other hand, one has to wonder why would they change their opinion bc of few games.
Your acting like these few games were at the end of the regular season. In the scouts mind they could have had Jones just a hair higher then MacKinnon. Then MacKinnon went on to dominate the Memorial Cup with a hat trick in the last game. It's quite the performance. A performance that could have erased some doubts that they previously had of MacKinnon.

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05-27-2013, 12:40 PM
  #746
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Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 3 min
Pre-Memorial Cup, significant majority of scouts (say 6 of 10) I talk to had Jones at No. 1 but some had MacKinnon or Drouin 1st (two each).

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 32 s
Post-Memorial Cup, one scout who had Jones No. 1 switched to MacKinnon and two others wanted to "think about it" some more.

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 2 min
Some scouts have Drouin ahead of MacKinnon, and vice vera obviously, and I know at least one who has Aleksander Barkov ahead of both of them
Sounds likes it's a getting a lot closer.

Interesting to see that MacKinnon's domination in the Memorial Cup affected his stock more than most wanted to believe.

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05-27-2013, 12:43 PM
  #747
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Brock posted his OHL list. Always a good read.

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05-27-2013, 12:46 PM
  #748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 3 min
Pre-Memorial Cup, significant majority of scouts (say 6 of 10) I talk to had Jones at No. 1 but some had MacKinnon or Drouin 1st (two each).

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 32 s
Post-Memorial Cup, one scout who had Jones No. 1 switched to MacKinnon and two others wanted to "think about it" some more.

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 2 min
Some scouts have Drouin ahead of MacKinnon, and vice vera obviously, and I know at least one who has Aleksander Barkov ahead of both of them
Hahaha, wow. These scouts must be part of Columbus Blue Jackets, Dallas Stars, and New Jersey Devils.

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05-27-2013, 12:46 PM
  #749
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Brock posted his OHL list. Always a good read.
Good read. Thanks for posting.

Sounds like another potential Norris candidate could be had in Nurse. All I've heard about him throughout the season is that he just continues to improve.

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05-27-2013, 12:47 PM
  #750
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Hahaha, wow. These scouts must be part of Columbus Blue Jackets, Dallas Stars, and New Jersey Devils.
Or Coloardo, Florida, and Tampa Bay

The world may never know...

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