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Memorial Cup Thread Part II

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05-26-2013, 12:21 PM
  #301
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This board will freak out when Troy Rutkowski has a hat-trick today.

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05-26-2013, 12:24 PM
  #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundwaveIsCharisma View Post
I think MacKinnon would do just fine in the west. He seems like a mix between Hall and Duchene to me, he's more physical and reckless than Duchene, but less suicidal than Hall.
I would like to add that MacKinnon's IQ is a billion times better than Hall as well.

Still would be disappointed if we skip Jones for him.

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05-26-2013, 12:25 PM
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
If they take MacKinnon, they're getting one hell of a player.

Will I be disappointed that they took him over Jones? Maybe a little, but that's because I personally feel that Jones is the BPA (only slightly) over MacKinnon. But I guaran-damn-tee you that come Opening Night when the puck drops and I see MacKinnon in an Avs uniform doing what he does best, all of my "disappointment" would be gone.

That being said, I still think that Jones is the BPA and therefore the Avs should select him.
Well said. While everyone on these boards has their own view on BPA and who the Avs should draft I think we can all agree that our team will be better next season and into the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avsfan89 View Post
Oh I agree, I would probably love Mac too.

I'm just saying Mack has Art Ross caliber point production if he goes East, but not West. West is just a different animal.

7 of the top 10 in scoring this year were from the East, with the top 4 being from the East as well. However, that said, Mack could very well be an exception but the Avs haven't had a top 5 or top 10 point getter in a long time lol
While the West is "a different animal", one of the factors that makes it that way is, as you stated, the quality of defenders in the West. You're going to need defensive talent to compete, and you're also going to need offensive threats to beat those defenders.

While having MacKinnon in the West could mean he doesn't score as many goals as if he were in the 'weaker' East, it doesn't mean he won't have potentially a huge impact on the team's offense and goal scoring ability.

Is it June 30th yet?

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05-26-2013, 12:31 PM
  #304
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I don't think finding a spot for MacKinnon would be a problem, nor would it expedite trading Stastny. Stastny's future with the team is completely governed by his contract and willingness to re-sign.

It's possible MacKinnon would have to play wing as a rookie, which isn't the worst thing for an 18 year old. Having too many good centers isn't a problem.

Avs need good defenders right now. Avs need good forwards right now. It shouldn't and with what we know about Pracey won't affect who Avs will pick.

MacKinnon is going to be awesome. I'd take an 18 year MacKinnon over an 18 year old Duchene.

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05-26-2013, 12:41 PM
  #305
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Avs were #26 in goals for and #27 in goals against. We scored only 6 goals more than Nashville Predators, the team whose highest scoring forward is David Legwand. That's how bad it is. It's nice to pretend D is our only issue but we all know that's not the case. We need forwards just as much as we need dmen.

Draft BPA.

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05-26-2013, 12:47 PM
  #306
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Looking for a big bounce back from Jones tonight. He was flat out bad in the second half of the semi-final vs. London. Lots of bad plays with the puck and not very aware defensively. Was probably the worst I've ever seen him play, and I've seen him over 20 times now in the last couple years.

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Old
05-26-2013, 12:48 PM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
This board will freak out when Troy Rutkowski has a hat-trick today.
Why? He'll be a career AHLer at best.

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05-26-2013, 12:49 PM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Looking for a big bounce back from Jones tonight. He was flat out bad in the second half of the semi-final vs. London. Lots of bad plays with the puck and not very aware defensively. Was probably the worst I've ever seen him play, and I've seen him over 20 times now in the last couple years.
Thank God

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Old
05-26-2013, 12:58 PM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marioni View Post
Avs were #26 in goals for and #27 in goals against. We scored only 6 goals more than Nashville Predators, the team whose highest scoring forward is David Legwand. That's how bad it is. It's nice to pretend D is our only issue but we all know that's not the case. We need forwards just as much as we need dmen.

Draft BPA.
This is exactly my point as well. Everybody seems to think defense is our only problem, but scoring has been just as big an issue as well the past 3 seasons. We need some talent injected into our forwards as well.

You got to take BPA with number 1 regardless of position.

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05-26-2013, 01:15 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
I would like to add that MacKinnon's IQ is a billion times better than Hall as well.

Still would be disappointed if we skip Jones for him.
Mac's IQ is 0?

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05-26-2013, 01:17 PM
  #311
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Scoring doesn't just come from the forwards. The Avalanche's defense combined for a grand total of five goals this season. Absolutely no offensive support from the back end.

The Avs could use any of the top three, but if we're talking needs, it's not even close.

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05-26-2013, 01:24 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by chet1926 View Post
This is exactly my point as well. Everybody seems to think defense is our only problem, but scoring has been just as big an issue as well the past 3 seasons. We need some talent injected into our forwards as well.

You got to take BPA with number 1 regardless of position.
I put the in the trade proposal thread. It's not the Avs top 6 forwards that are the problem, it is the rest of the team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs71 View Post
Top 6 scoring forwards combined goal totals, for each team in the West that made the playoffs:

Chicago: GP-275 Goals-91
Los Angeles: GP-285 Goals-84
San Jose: GP- 262 Goals-78
Anaheim: GP-275 Goals-74
Colorado: GP-258 Goals-71
Detroit: GP-267 Goals-70
St. Louis: GP-269 Goals-66
Vancouver: GP-276 Goals-66
Minnesota: GP-270 Goals-64

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05-26-2013, 01:25 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by chet1926 View Post
This is exactly my point as well. Everybody seems to think defense is our only problem, but scoring has been just as big an issue as well the past 3 seasons. We need some talent injected into our forwards as well.

You got to take BPA with number 1 regardless of position.
maybe it has something to do with the fact the avs ranked dead last in points and goals by dmen combined.

the avs had 4 goals from defensmen this year, 2 of them were from tyson barrie. The nhl of today is also played with great transition from D to F (pits, chicago, detroit).

The great greg zanon, o'byrne (large chunk of season), o'brien, and Hejda didn't particularly shine at that aspect of the game. Wilson was often injured. Hunwick is...well hunwick, and Johnson plays babysitter with this d core

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05-26-2013, 01:30 PM
  #314
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Im preparing to get flamed for what I am about to say...

Is there a chance...Jones is playing to not get hurt in the Memorial Cup?

I see flashes of what everyone has talked about but at times he seems to lack a bit of effort.

Now the reason I suggest this is because you dont become or even get close to being the "top prospect" with the play we have seen in the Memorial Cup. I dont think he is playing at his best by far which is why I proposed the idea above. Im not saying he has been bad, but he also hasnt exactly been great. There is more in him...

Feel free to flame this idea, but I could see a guy who feels his play over the course of the year will outweigh the play in a tourny and wants to stay healthy to solidify the #1 draft spot.

Just a thought.

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05-26-2013, 01:49 PM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs For Life View Post
Im preparing to get flamed for what I am about to say...

Is there a chance...Jones is playing to not get hurt in the Memorial Cup?

I see flashes of what everyone has talked about but at times he seems to lack a bit of effort.

Now the reason I suggest this is because you dont become or even get close to being the "top prospect" with the play we have seen in the Memorial Cup. I dont think he is playing at his best by far which is why I proposed the idea above. Im not saying he has been bad, but he also hasnt exactly been great. There is more in him...

Feel free to flame this idea, but I could see a guy who feels his play over the course of the year will outweigh the play in a tourny and wants to stay healthy to solidify the #1 draft spot.

Just a thought.
He's not lacking effort. If anything, he could be lacking energy. He's used to playing 50 games a season. This year he's up near 80 or 90 games. I know for a fact that most junior players, especially the younger ones, do get a bit tired at the end of such a long year.

The guy has had to transition to the WHL, play a full season, going to Russia for World Juniors, playing in the top prospects game, playing in the WHL finals, now the Memorial Cup.

That's a long season with a ton of travel.

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05-26-2013, 02:09 PM
  #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
He's not lacking effort. If anything, he could be lacking energy. He's used to playing 50 games a season. This year he's up near 80 or 90 games. I know for a fact that most junior players, especially the younger ones, do get a bit tired at the end of such a long year.

The guy has had to transition to the WHL, play a full season, going to Russia for World Juniors, playing in the top prospects game, playing in the WHL finals, now the Memorial Cup.

That's a long season with a ton of travel.
So basically what you're saying is that unless Jones does some serious conditioning/workout this summer, his first NHL season might be pretty gruesome for him?

He's not going to get any gimme games in the NHL like he did in the WHL, and will have a long schedule. I'll be fine with any player we pick, but I'm still unsure if having Jones up in the NHL the first year will be as productive as some people say.

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05-26-2013, 02:16 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by PAZ View Post
So basically what you're saying is that unless Jones does some serious conditioning/workout this summer, his first NHL season might be pretty gruesome for him?

He's not going to get any gimme games in the NHL like he did in the WHL, and will have a long schedule. I'll be fine with any player we pick, but I'm still unsure if having Jones up in the NHL the first year will be as productive as some people say.
Not necessarily in my opinion, because he's logging a lot of minutes in all of the situations that RS pointed out, whereas with the Avs he wouldn't be logging as many minutes.

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05-26-2013, 02:16 PM
  #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
He's not lacking effort. If anything, he could be lacking energy. He's used to playing 50 games a season. This year he's up near 80 or 90 games. I know for a fact that most junior players, especially the younger ones, do get a bit tired at the end of such a long year.

The guy has had to transition to the WHL, play a full season, going to Russia for World Juniors, playing in the top prospects game, playing in the WHL finals, now the Memorial Cup.

That's a long season with a ton of travel.
He's played 93 competitive games this season. Add exhibition games and it's probably over 100. He's playing big minutes too, with Portland riding their top four very hard. Droin has 80 and MacKinnon 75, but they did play the Ivan Hlinka too so they probably had a longer season in total.

It's a bit insane how much these guys play.

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Old
05-26-2013, 02:26 PM
  #319
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Not necessarily in my opinion, because he's logging a lot of minutes in all of the situations that RS pointed out, whereas with the Avs he wouldn't be logging as many minutes.
True, but every minute in the NHL is going to be a hard minute. WHL theres a lot more easy minutes, especially playing for Portland. If anyone has played any competitive sports, 25 minutes TOI against a weaker team is a lot easier than 16 minutes against a strong team.

I admit i'm skeptic about Jones coming up the first year for the full season, I'd love for him to prove me wrong.

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05-26-2013, 02:40 PM
  #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAZ View Post
So basically what you're saying is that unless Jones does some serious conditioning/workout this summer, his first NHL season might be pretty gruesome for him?

He's not going to get any gimme games in the NHL like he did in the WHL, and will have a long schedule. I'll be fine with any player we pick, but I'm still unsure if having Jones up in the NHL the first year will be as productive as some people say.
There will be a few big differences:

- He'll be playing fewer minutes with the Avalanche then he has been with Portland. Although he will be against tougher opposition, which is a valid point.

- NHL teams fly instead of ride a bus for hours on end.

- He'll have another year to be bigger, stronger and better conditioned.

- He won't have to make the exhausting trip to Russia mid-season, and be expected to not miss a beat both at the event and after his return.

- He will have the Olympic break to rest and regroup.


Overall I'm optimistic that he'll be very strong for us next season, even if it does come with some stretches of "mistakes" due to various reasons including being a bit tired and adjusting to much bigger, stronger and faster opposition.

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05-26-2013, 02:57 PM
  #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
There will be a few big differences:

- He'll be playing fewer minutes with the Avalanche then he has been with Portland. Although he will be against tougher opposition, which is a valid point.

- NHL teams fly instead of ride a bus for hours on end.

- He'll have another year to be bigger, stronger and better conditioned.

- He won't have to make the exhausting trip to Russia mid-season, and be expected to not miss a beat both at the event and after his return.

- He will have the Olympic break to rest and regroup.


Overall I'm optimistic that he'll be very strong for us next season, even if it does come with some stretches of "mistakes" due to various reasons including being a bit tired and adjusting to much bigger, stronger and faster opposition.
Fair points, I completely forgot about the Olympic break.

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05-26-2013, 03:04 PM
  #322
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Fair points, I completely forgot about the Olympic break.
That's if NHL players go (still not finalized).

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05-26-2013, 03:12 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Avs For Life View Post
Im preparing to get flamed for what I am about to say...

Is there a chance...Jones is playing to not get hurt in the Memorial Cup?

I see flashes of what everyone has talked about but at times he seems to lack a bit of effort.

Now the reason I suggest this is because you dont become or even get close to being the "top prospect" with the play we have seen in the Memorial Cup. I dont think he is playing at his best by far which is why I proposed the idea above. Im not saying he has been bad, but he also hasnt exactly been great. There is more in him...

Feel free to flame this idea, but I could see a guy who feels his play over the course of the year will outweigh the play in a tourny and wants to stay healthy to solidify the #1 draft spot.

Just a thought.
see post 275

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Old
05-26-2013, 03:42 PM
  #324
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I just read these guys have of course a big game tonight but then the combine is tomorrow? jeez.

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05-26-2013, 03:44 PM
  #325
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That's if NHL players go (still not finalized).
They'll go. Thinking otherwise is ridiculous. Players aren't going to stay home when they have a chance to represent their country. Winning a gold medal is the second biggest award in hockey, after the Stanley Cup.

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