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C Nathan MacKinnon - Halifax Mooseheads, QMJHL (2013, 1st overall, Colorado) III

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Old
05-26-2013, 07:04 PM
  #301
Brainiac
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Originally Posted by Breakfast of Champs View Post
Can and has are 2 completely different things. Not to mention you said in the next 5 years. Looks to me like Kane has been in the league that long and hasn't won one yet....
Good point. Anyway we all know that Martin St-Louis will win the Art Ross in 2018-19. No way Drouin can even dream about it...

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05-26-2013, 07:38 PM
  #302
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Pretty sure Kypreos is right. The Avs need to draft Mackinnon. He's been dominant in big games.

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05-26-2013, 09:39 PM
  #303
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05-26-2013, 09:40 PM
  #304
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05-26-2013, 09:43 PM
  #305
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The Avs can't pass on this kid.

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05-26-2013, 09:45 PM
  #306
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Comparing to Crosby? What a joke.

He's a great player and will undoubtedly be excellent but he is not Sidney Crosby good...

I'd still take Seth Jones cause I think Colorado really needs that #1 defenseman especially when looking towards a retooling phase. I also don't think Jones played himself out of #1, but rather Mackinnon played himself to the same plateau.

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05-26-2013, 09:53 PM
  #307
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Mackinnon game in game out has been better than Jones. Jones projects well but Mackinnon has it all now.

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05-26-2013, 09:54 PM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
Comparing to Crosby? What a joke.

He's a great player and will undoubtedly be excellent but he is not Sidney Crosby good...

I'd still take Seth Jones cause I think Colorado really needs that #1 defenseman especially when looking towards a retooling phase. I also don't think Jones played himself out of #1, but rather Mackinnon played himself to the same plateau.
This. The Avs need defense, and with a good group of forwards as it is, the smart move would be to go with Jones. Also, does anyone take into account the time Sakic has spent with Jones, working with him? I would think that Jones' relationship with him, and his last few years in Colorado should also be taken into account.

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05-26-2013, 09:56 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by usascout1 View Post
Mackinnon game in game out has been better than Jones. Jones projects well but Mackinnon has it all now.
I think the problem with most defensemen is they generally don`t hit their stride till they like 24-25ish. it`s the basic case 10 years from now Jones might be the better player and even at a large margin but for the next 5-10 years you will get more positive production out of Mackinnon most likely

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05-26-2013, 09:57 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
This. The Avs need defense, and with a good group of forwards as it is, the smart move would be to go with Jones. Also, does anyone take into account the time Sakic has spent with Jones, working with him? I would think that Jones' relationship with him, and his last few years in Colorado should also be taken into account.
They've bluntly said they wanna go with BPA. It looks like Mackinnon is the best, especially given that defenders are risky in the top few picks.

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05-26-2013, 10:03 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by KoekkoekPuffs View Post
They've bluntly said they wanna go with BPA. It looks like Mackinnon is the best, especially given that defenders are risky in the top few picks.
Is he?

He had a great tournament but flashy forwards will always stick out more. Who was better at the WJC? Throughout the season I'd argue Drouin was better than both.

For me, the two are on the same plateau and it comes down to position in which Colorado goes with Jones. The need for an elite defender, the familiarity with Sakic and the abundance of offensive talent the Avalanche already possess (Landeskog, O'Reilly, Duchene, etc.)...just makes it the right pick in my opinion.

As for the risk of taking defenders in the top few picks..the Johnson's haven't panned out but Pietrangelo, Doughty, etc. certainly have. There will always be concerns like that with every position.

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05-26-2013, 10:04 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by KoekkoekPuffs View Post
They've bluntly said they wanna go with BPA. It looks like Mackinnon is the best, especially given that defenders are risky in the top few picks.
With BPA, I'm fairly certain they mean best in his prime and not best at 17-18.

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05-26-2013, 10:09 PM
  #313
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Colorado can't go wrong with either MacKinnon, Jones or Drouin. But I'd take MacKinnon 1st overall without hesitating.

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05-26-2013, 10:12 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
Is he?

He had a great tournament but flashy forwards will always stick out more. Who was better at the WJC? Throughout the season I'd argue Drouin was better than both.

For me, the two are on the same plateau and it comes down to position in which Colorado goes with Jones. The need for an elite defender, the familiarity with Sakic and the abundance of offensive talent the Avalanche already possess (Landeskog, O'Reilly, Duchene, etc.)...just makes it the right pick in my opinion.

As for the risk of taking defenders in the top few picks..the Johnson's haven't panned out but Pietrangelo, Doughty, etc. certainly have. There will always be concerns like that with every position.
Landeskog, O'Reilly, Duchene are all fine as you point out. But nowhere near an elite group of forwards in the NHL. As good as they are, Colorado is far from having an abundance of talent up front. They still were among the worst offensive teams in the league. MacKinnon would fit in great at center with Duchene and O'Reilly playing behind. Pittsbrugh won with Crosby, Makin and Staal at center. Pretty sure Colorado can do better than Duchene and O'Reilly as good as they may be.

Their group on defense isn't that bad. Wilson is an underrated D. Johnson is very good. Siemens has some good potential to go along with Barrie. If Colorado had a group of forwards that could control the game, Avs' D wouldn't be nearly as exposed.

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05-26-2013, 10:16 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
Is he?

He had a great tournament but flashy forwards will always stick out more. Who was better at the WJC? Throughout the season I'd argue Drouin was better than both.

For me, the two are on the same plateau and it comes down to position in which Colorado goes with Jones. The need for an elite defender, the familiarity with Sakic and the abundance of offensive talent the Avalanche already possess (Landeskog, O'Reilly, Duchene, etc.)...just makes it the right pick in my opinion.

As for the risk of taking defenders in the top few picks..the Johnson's haven't panned out but Pietrangelo, Doughty, etc. certainly have. There will always be concerns like that with every position.
The Mackinnon-Drouin debate is certainly interesting and I can't really comment on that. Based on position alone, I'd take either of them over Jones since it's a proven fact that forwards are the most wise choice for the first few picks of a draft. Just tally up the failure rate among forwards and defensemen over the last decade and it's pretty clear. BPA inherently ignores "need" and relatively minor things like familiarity shouldn't factor into a decision as important as this.

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05-26-2013, 10:22 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by KoekkoekPuffs View Post
The Mackinnon-Drouin debate is certainly interesting and I can't really comment on that. Based on position alone, I'd take either of them over Jones since it's a proven fact that forwards are the most wise choice for the first few picks of a draft. Just tally up the failure rate among forwards and defensemen over the last decade and it's pretty clear. BPA inherently ignores "need" and relatively minor things like familiarity shouldn't factor into a decision as important as this.
I think LA is happy TBay took Stamkos 1st.

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05-26-2013, 10:23 PM
  #317
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Why don't Avs trade down to get Seth Jones ++ ? Jones seems like the perfect fit for Denver.

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05-26-2013, 10:25 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I think LA is happy TBay took Stamkos 1st.
Just like Tampa is happy with Stamkos. In the end it's probably how it's going to work out. Team A happy with MacKinnon, B with Drouin, C with Jones, D with Barkov.

That said, a team is more than just one great player. L.A. is a much stronger team. Put Stamkos on that team and Doughty on Tampa and you probably get the same results.

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Originally Posted by SevenOfSpades View Post
Why don't Avs trade down to get Seth Jones ++ ? Jones seems like the perfect fit for Denver.
That's what I'm thinking is going to happen. The incentive for Florida to draft MacKinnon is there. They already have good depth but have a big need at center and MacKinnon just so happens to be available in this draft.

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05-26-2013, 10:26 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by SevenOfSpades View Post
Why don't Avs trade down to get Seth Jones ++ ? Jones seems like the perfect fit for Denver.
Cause Seth Jones doesn't fall past 2.

I really doubt Florida would trade much to move there as well.

Also, Jones going 1 isn't exactly a dumb pick.

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05-26-2013, 10:38 PM
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I think Jones played a pretty decent game, but MacKinnon stood out. Guys who stand out in big game are few and far between. I can understand why COL would pick Jones, but MacKinnon is as a sure thing as possible, imo. He reminds me so much of Taylor Hall in the way he plays.

As a hockey fan, I want the Avs to pick MacKinnon, so I can see him play live more. As an Oilers fan, I want them to pick Jones, just so MacKinnon ends up in the EC and doesn't torch us on a regular basis.

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05-26-2013, 10:41 PM
  #321
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I'd never take a D first overall. Colorado only needs to look at Johnson on their own roster as someone who should have been drafted at least a few spots later. After watching the Memorial Cup, I'd say that Nathan is the best player available at first. Colorado would be making a mistake if they pass him by. I'd argue that Seth's partner Pouliot looked better in the tournament and Pittsburgh didn't need to use a first overall pick on him.

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05-26-2013, 10:42 PM
  #322
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Its weird but I envy florida fans right now. If the Avs pick Jones, they take potentially the next Stamkos level star. And if the Avs take MacKinnon, they "settle" for a 6'4 200+ pound athletic freak with high hockey IQ.

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05-26-2013, 10:45 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
Comparing to Crosby? What a joke.
Whoa there, asides from birthplace, these comparisons stopped in 2012 lol.

Jones > at the WJC, MAcKinnon > at the Mem Cup.

Avs, right now, could use more help on D but they are not elite at forward, despite promising futures for Duchene, Landy and O'Reilly. MacKinnon has been ranked #1 just as much as Jones in the last few years and he stepped his game up when the playoffs started, showing he can be #1.

Neither Jones or MacKinnon will be the "right pick", they're equals.

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05-26-2013, 10:47 PM
  #324
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I think LA is happy TBay took Stamkos 1st.
Yeah, and so is Tampa. Especially given that Stamkos is objectively better than Doughty. Of course time will tell who has the better career but are you seriously saying Tampa would have been wiser to pick Doughty? Besides, you're just cherrypicking a player here. I can do that too: Jack Johnson, Cam Barker, Erik Johnson, Rostislav Klesla, Thomas Hickey.

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05-26-2013, 11:03 PM
  #325
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Whoa there, asides from birthplace, these comparisons stopped in 2012 lol.

Jones > at the WJC, MAcKinnon > at the Mem Cup.

Avs, right now, could use more help on D but they are not elite at forward, despite promising futures for Duchene, Landy and O'Reilly. MacKinnon has been ranked #1 just as much as Jones in the last few years and he stepped his game up when the playoffs started, showing he can be #1.

Neither Jones or MacKinnon will be the "right pick", they're equals.
I was referring to the Sportsnet panel that was comparing him to Crosby.

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