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C Nathan MacKinnon - Halifax Mooseheads, QMJHL (2013, 1st overall, Colorado) III

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05-26-2013, 11:06 PM
  #326
Avsboy
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Originally Posted by Mathletic View Post
Landeskog, O'Reilly, Duchene are all fine as you point out. But nowhere near an elite group of forwards in the NHL. As good as they are, Colorado is far from having an abundance of talent up front. They still were among the worst offensive teams in the league. MacKinnon would fit in great at center with Duchene and O'Reilly playing behind. Pittsbrugh won with Crosby, Makin and Staal at center. Pretty sure Colorado can do better than Duchene and O'Reilly as good as they may be.

Their group on defense isn't that bad. Wilson is an underrated D. Johnson is very good. Siemens has some good potential to go along with Barrie. If Colorado had a group of forwards that could control the game, Avs' D wouldn't be nearly as exposed.
Great post.

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05-26-2013, 11:45 PM
  #327
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I personally dont agree with any Crosby comparisons. Mackinnon is more of a sniper than playmaker, Crosby more of a playmaker than sniper. Im just talking the root of the player. Crosby scored 50 in the NHL but Crosby is a playmaker. Both have mind warping speed but Crosby more elusive on the rush, Mackinnon more of a direct, shield the puck, power move to get to where he wants. He sure made his case for #1 with that memorial cup performance.

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05-26-2013, 11:59 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
I was referring to the Sportsnet panel that was comparing him to Crosby.
oh, well I don't listen to them much anyways

Career paths, hype, birthplace, amazing talent (not on same level) good enough to rank them #1 or 2 in their draft years.... But not really similar in the way they play the game, and I don't think MacKinnon will become the best player in the world like the other has.

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05-27-2013, 12:05 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by 17Kurri View Post
I think Jones played a pretty decent game, but MacKinnon stood out. Guys who stand out in big game are few and far between. I can understand why COL would pick Jones, but MacKinnon is as a sure thing as possible, imo. He reminds me so much of Taylor Hall in the way he plays.

As a hockey fan, I want the Avs to pick MacKinnon, so I can see him play live more. As an Oilers fan, I want them to pick Jones, just so MacKinnon ends up in the EC and doesn't torch us on a regular basis.
Excellent comparison.

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05-27-2013, 12:07 AM
  #330
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Who would you folks say has the better upside? Hall or Mack?

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05-27-2013, 12:10 AM
  #331
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Who would you folks say has the better upside? Hall or Mack?
Mackinnon, especially if he improves on the draws. All the key faceoffs centerman take and how that impacts a game, makes them most valuble. Hall being a winger makes him less valuable right off the start. He will be a #1 center u build your franchise around for the next decade. Hall is a complimentary piece in my opinion. I think Mackinnon has leadership qualities that Hall doesnt.

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05-27-2013, 12:19 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 View Post
Mackinnon, especially if he improves on the draws. All the key faceoffs centerman take and how that impacts a game, makes them most valuble. Hall being a winger makes him less valuable right off the start. He will be a #1 center u build your franchise around for the next decade. Hall is a complimentary piece in my opinion. I think Mackinnon has leadership qualities that Hall doesnt.
Hall has never been a complementary piece no matter where he's played. He's been big time wherever he's played. And one of his greatest attributes is leadership abilities, especially in the most important way, which is leading by example. The guy never takes a night off. If MacKinnon does the same, he'll indeed be a special player in the NHL, like Hall is.

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05-27-2013, 12:21 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
Is he?

He had a great tournament but flashy forwards will always stick out more. Who was better at the WJC? Throughout the season I'd argue Drouin was better than both.
Just about no one I know with season tickets would agree with that. For what it's worth.

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Originally Posted by NWAvs View Post
Who would you folks say has the better upside? Hall or Mack?
I'd say MacKinnon, but it's hard to say. Hall is a powerful guy when moving forward, but MacKinnon is more of a puck hound all over the ice, imo. Probably better "instincts", too, but that's a nebulously subjective one there.

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05-27-2013, 12:23 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by 17Kurri View Post
Hall has never been a complementary piece no matter where he's played. He's been big time wherever he's played. And one of his greatest attributes is leadership abilities, especially in the most important way, which is leading by example. The guy never takes a night off. If MacKinnon does the same, he'll indeed be a special player in the NHL, like Hall is.
I believe at the NHL level Hall is a complimentary piece to a Cup winner. Not the sole leader. Edmonton is a long way from the playoffs and I think most NHL teams would rather have Eberle over Hall. At this point, Hall is not a Toews or Crosby and I dont believe he will ever get to that status as NHL captain on a stanley cup winner before the age of 24 like those other 2 guys.

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05-27-2013, 12:25 AM
  #335
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Originally Posted by NWAvs View Post
Who would you folks say has the better upside? Hall or Mack?
MacK. They have several similar qualities offensively, although I do think MacK's vision is better than Hall's. I find he's less turnover prone and can play a more cerebral game at this stage of his development when needed. His two-way game is quite a bit better than Hall's come draft time as well, having proven himself to be a reliable PKer as one of the team's youngest players. Finally, while I could see the argument for Hall being a bit faster straight ahead, I prefer MacKinnon's skating balance and turning.

Keep in mind that Hall almost a full year older than MacK when they got draft. Hall was born on November 14th, while MacK is born on September 2nd.

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05-27-2013, 12:26 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 View Post
I believe at the NHL level Hall is a complimentary piece to a Cup winner. Not the sole leader. Edmonton is a long way from the playoffs and I think most NHL teams would rather have Eberle over Hall. Hall is not a Toews or Crosby.
You would be wrong. Dead wrong.

The next captain of the Oilers will be Hall, not Eberle. Eberle, as good a player as he is, is the complementary piece. He's not as capable of carrying a team on his back as Hall is.

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05-27-2013, 12:26 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 View Post
I believe at the NHL level Hall is a complimentary piece to a Cup winner. Not the sole leader. Edmonton is a long way from the playoffs and I think most NHL teams would rather have Eberle over Hall. At this point, Hall is not a Toews or Crosby and I dont believe he will ever get to that status as NHL captain on a stanley cup winner before the age of 24 like those other 2 guys.
No GM in the league would take Eberle over Hall, this is why you shouldn't speak on matters you are unfamiliar with.

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05-27-2013, 12:26 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 View Post
I believe at the NHL level Hall is a complimentary piece to a Cup winner. Not the sole leader. Edmonton is a long way from the playoffs and I think most NHL teams would rather have Eberle over Hall. At this point, Hall is not a Toews or Crosby and I dont believe he will ever get to that status as NHL captain on a stanley cup winner before the age of 24 like those other 2 guys.
Disagree big time. Eberle may have hands that Hall does not, but Hall is more dominant.

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05-27-2013, 12:30 AM
  #339
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You would be wrong. Dead wrong.

The next captain of the Oilers will be Hall, not Eberle. Eberle, as good a player as he is, is the complementary piece. He's not as capable of carrying a team on his back as Hall is.
I agree with u on the Eberle being complimentary too. I think Hall and his style, with the injuries to the shoulder, raise durability issues we will see. Eberle had 20 more point than HAll last year. It was reversed this year in the shortened year. Eberle has produced more points in 2 of the 3 seasons together. Eberle is very clutch and his hands are outstanding and a very accurate wrist shot. I dont think there is as much separation between the 2. I fear Eberle more when they visit the Leafs.

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05-27-2013, 12:34 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 View Post
Mackinnon, especially if he improves on the draws. All the key faceoffs centerman take and how that impacts a game, makes them most valuble. Hall being a winger makes him less valuable right off the start. He will be a #1 center u build your franchise around for the next decade. Hall is a complimentary piece in my opinion. I think Mackinnon has leadership qualities that Hall doesnt.
I think Mackinnon lacks the leadership qualities Hall has. Hall has the intangibles that are only rivaled by Toews and Landeskog in the entire NHL.

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05-27-2013, 12:36 AM
  #341
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I think Mackinnon lacks the leadership qualities Hall has. Hall has the intangibles that are only rivaled by Toews and Landeskog in the entire NHL.
That's really tough to say. I think MacKinnon has great leadership abilities especially on the ice. The 2 games against Portland he basically put the team on his back and was a huge part in their success coming up with big plays at big times. Also, it's really hard to tell what he's like in the dressing room.

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05-27-2013, 12:37 AM
  #342
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I think Mackinnon lacks the leadership qualities Hall has. Hall has the intangibles that are only rivaled by Toews and Landeskog in the entire NHL.
Oh god, there's the intangibles again.

Most hated word in the English dictionary.

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05-27-2013, 12:46 AM
  #343
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Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 View Post
I agree with u on the Eberle being complimentary too. I think Hall and his style, with the injuries to the shoulder, raise durability issues we will see. Eberle had 20 more point than HAll last year. It was reversed this year in the shortened year. Eberle has produced more points in 2 of the 3 seasons together. Eberle is very clutch and his hands are outstanding and a very accurate wrist shot. I dont think there is as much separation between the 2. I fear Eberle more when they visit the Leafs.
There may not be much separation between the 2 production wise, but you can build around Hall. I'm not sure you can do that with Eberle.

A guy you can build around is a leader. A guy who can follow the example of the leader, even exceptionally, is a complementary piece.

Hall is a force of nature. Eberle is cerebral. If we need one play to either tie or win a game, we want Hall on the ice for sure. Eberle alongside him is desirable, but other guys would likely suffice, as well.

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05-27-2013, 12:55 AM
  #344
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Originally Posted by 17Kurri View Post
There may not be much separation between the 2 production wise, but you can build around Hall. I'm not sure you can do that with Eberle.

A guy you can build around is a leader. A guy who can follow the example of the leader, even exceptionally, is a complementary piece.

Hall is a force of nature. Eberle is cerebral. If we need one play to either tie or win a game, we want Hall on the ice for sure. Eberle alongside him is desirable, but other guys would likely suffice, as well.
Im think at this point, there is little evidence to support that at the NHL level. I think Edmonton would have made the playoffs if that was the case. Edmonton must not think that yet, Horcoff wears the C. Crosby, Toews, landeskog had the C at a younger age.

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05-27-2013, 12:55 AM
  #345
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Before this season I was worried about Hall, but during this season he blew my mind. Even if he didn't improve from now until he retired he would be an amazing player, however once his linemates start cashing in at even an average rate, and he gets stronger I think he will end up being one of the most dominant players in the league.

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05-27-2013, 12:57 AM
  #346
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Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 View Post
Im think at this point, there is little evidence to support that at the NHL level. I think Edmonton would have made the playoffs if that was the case. Edmonton must not think that yet, Horcoff wears the C. Crosby, Toews, landeskog had the C at a younger age.
He's separated himself from anyone on the team in terms of skill and the only reason he doesn't have the C is because of seniority. He's the real deal.

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05-27-2013, 01:05 AM
  #347
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Oh god, there's the intangibles again.

Most hated word in the English dictionary.
I actually like this word. 'Intangibles'.

I mean, it's vague and somehow positive. So you can throw the word around and justify yourself later, if things go right.

Intangibles. If we were to draft words, that one would be high on my list, because, you know, intangibles...

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05-27-2013, 01:10 AM
  #348
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Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 View Post
Im think at this point, there is little evidence to support that at the NHL level. I think Edmonton would have made the playoffs if that was the case. Edmonton must not think that yet, Horcoff wears the C. Crosby, Toews, landeskog had the C at a younger age.
Oh, you mean other than actually watching him play night in and night out?

As for the C, it has everything to do with the bureaucracy that is the Edmonton Oilers organization. By all rights other than seniority, Hall should be the captain.

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05-27-2013, 01:11 AM
  #349
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Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 View Post
Im think at this point, there is little evidence to support that at the NHL level. I think Edmonton would have made the playoffs if that was the case. Edmonton must not think that yet, Horcoff wears the C. Crosby, Toews, landeskog had the C at a younger age.
The Oilers have only once stripped a captain of the C. Even Gretzky had to wait until he was 22.

And Hall is clearly the motor that powers the Oilers. Anyone that watches the games OR is in tune with the fancy stats can easily tell that.

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05-27-2013, 01:22 AM
  #350
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It's cool how Mackinnon can win a memorial cup and one posters comments can lead oiler fans to make it a thread about Hall/their team instead of Mac.

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