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2013-14 Flyers Overhaul Part II

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Old
05-27-2013, 11:06 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
The only reason I say that is past practice.
The Flyers only draft Offensive players, Centers or Wings with #1 picks.
The only #1 pick defenseman I can remember is Sbisca.
And then he was quickly given up on and traded.
They must have no confidence that they can pick a blue chip defender if one was available.

Dougie Hamilton was available but we needed another center more.
Why I do not know???

I have no confidence this defense will improve with this FO running the draft.

Our only hope is to trade for #1 defenseman with some of our extra centermen.
Sbisa was thought of as a PMD. If he was here now, some of the Flyers issues would be gone. He didn't develop because he was traded for Pronger.
As for Hamilton, he was benched in game five when Seidenberg returned from injury and two other rookies played ahead of him. Hamilton probably will develop into a nice player in time but the decision to take Couturier over him in the draft will probably prove to be the correct one.

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05-27-2013, 11:09 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
The only reason I say that is past practice.
The Flyers only draft Offensive players, Centers or Wings with #1 picks.
The only #1 pick defenseman I can remember is Sbisca.
And then he was quickly given up on and traded.
They must have no confidence that they can pick a blue chip defender if one was available.

Dougie Hamilton was available but we needed another center more.
Why I do not know???


I have no confidence this defense will improve with this FO running the draft.

Our only hope is to trade for #1 defenseman with some of our extra centermen.
Couturier was ranked number 1 at certain points during his draft year. They would have been dumb to pass him up at #8. The Flyers were actually planning on taking a defensemen in Duncan Siemens until Couturier fell.

We actually did need a center at that point especially a strong defensive one like Couturier. We just got rid of Carter, Richards, Betts, and Powe. We had Giroux, a young Schenn, and an aging Briere as the only centers on our roster.

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05-27-2013, 11:09 AM
  #78
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Lots of Carle haters out there, well I have come to believe that
Coburn is actually worse than Carle.

My reasoning-- Lots of defensive defenseman on this team,
his cap is too high for his value.

Carle may turn over the puck alot, but atleast he has some offensive ability.
Coburn is just another defensive defenseman and an average one at best with a big cap hit.

Not in favor of keeping Coburn, I would trade him to open up cap space for a real PMD.
We have other defensive defensemen in AHL or can pick up a FA for less.

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05-27-2013, 11:36 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Lots of Carle haters out there, well I have come to believe that
Coburn is actually worse than Carle.

My reasoning-- Lots of defensive defenseman on this team,
his cap is too high for his value.

Carle may turn over the puck alot, but atleast he has some offensive ability.
Coburn is just another defensive defenseman and an average one at best with a big cap hit.

Not in favor of keeping Coburn, I would trade him to open up cap space for a real PMD.
We have other defensive defensemen in AHL or can pick up a FA for less.
Umm how is Coburn worse than Carle just because he is a defensive defender on a team with defensive defenders? Technically doesnt that make Schenn and Grossmann worse than Carle also?

Carle was HORRENDOUS last season. I'm hoping your the only one that wants him back on the team. He played worse than Coburn did on a worse contract. I dont care how much the team needs a offensive defender, you dont overpay for a ****** one.

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05-27-2013, 11:57 AM
  #80
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If Matt Carle was on the team the Flyers wouldve made the playoffs. But They would have lost round 1 and had a terrible contract on their hands. While this team was bad this year the problem was too many high priced players being bad. Hartnell had a bad season. Briere had a really bad season. Mez was useless. Coburn also bad.

When your high priced players like that struggle it leads to inconsistent efforts and bad play. Briere and Mez will never be right. Mez has too many injuries and Briere is too old. I think Hartnell can turn it around next season. Coburn, I am not sure. But I would be willing to give another chance.

If you get rid of Briere and Mez thats 10.5 million in salary off the books and is addition by subtraction. I won't get into goaltending but ridding Briere and Mez gets the Flyers under the cap and gives them flexibility. Gus played a lot better at the end of the season and you would have 1 open spot on defense. The main thing for the Flyers is to not panic. They didnt panic at the trade deadline or last offseason so I have hope. If they make minor moves they will be better next season.

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05-27-2013, 12:07 PM
  #81
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I think Hartnell is the most likely to have a bounce back year out of all the disappointing veterans on this team this year. I'm thinking 25+ goals next year.

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05-27-2013, 12:11 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I think Hartnell is the most likely to have a bounce back year out of all the disappointing veterans on this team this year. I'm thinking 25+ goals next year.
Hard not to produce with Giroux and Voracek as your linemates.

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05-27-2013, 12:12 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by DrHamburg View Post
If Matt Carle was on the team the Flyers wouldve made the playoffs. But They would have lost round 1 and had a terrible contract on their hands. While this team was bad this year the problem was too many high priced players being bad. Hartnell had a bad season. Briere had a really bad season. Mez was useless. Coburn also bad.

When your high priced players like that struggle it leads to inconsistent efforts and bad play. Briere and Mez will never be right. Mez has too many injuries and Briere is too old. I think Hartnell can turn it around next season. Coburn, I am not sure. But I would be willing to give another chance.

If you get rid of Briere and Mez thats 10.5 million in salary off the books and is addition by subtraction. I won't get into goaltending but ridding Briere and Mez gets the Flyers under the cap and gives them flexibility. Gus played a lot better at the end of the season and you would have 1 open spot on defense. The main thing for the Flyers is to not panic. They didnt panic at the trade deadline or last offseason so I have hope. If they make minor moves they will be better next season.
I don't know how they are going to get rid of Meszaros' contract. Who would take it, even for 'futures?' If they waive him, will anyone pick him up?

Right now we have 7 D under contract. I'm putting Gus on the team because he proved he can play - and the WC didn't hurt either.

Based on last year's pairings:

Timonen-Schenn
Grossmann-Coburn
Gustafsson-Meszaros
Gervais

Lauridsen-Manning-Konan

The best way to improve this would be to sign Mark Streit and get rid of Meszaros:

Streit (Meszaros)-Schenn
Timonen-Coburn
Grossmann-Gustafsson
Gervais

With a puck mover and big man on each pairing, this would work. Coburn can play with Kimmo again, to save Kimmo some skating/wear and tear. Grossmann can protect Gus, who can skate for him. Luke is awesome and Streit is still a very good player. If we can't get Streit, and Mesz is healthy, he could pair with Luke and, if he regains his form, we'd have three good pairings.

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05-27-2013, 12:17 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Hard not to produce with Giroux and Voracek as your linemates.
Well yeah but it's not like he's riding coattails out there. He's put up 25+ goals before without them two.

He always seems to bounce back after disappointing seasons.

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05-27-2013, 12:18 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
I don't know how they are going to get rid of Meszaros' contract. Who would take it, even for 'futures?' If they waive him, will anyone pick him up?

Right now we have 7 D under contract. I'm putting Gus on the team because he proved he can play - and the WC didn't hurt either.

Based on last year's pairings:

Timonen-Schenn
Grossmann-Coburn
Gustafsson-Meszaros
Gervais

Lauridsen-Manning-Konan

The best way to improve this would be to sign Mark Streit and get rid of Meszaros:

Streit (Meszaros)-Schenn
Timonen-Coburn
Grossmann-Gustafsson
Gervais

With a puck mover and big man on each pairing, this would work. Coburn can play with Kimmo again, to save Kimmo some skating/wear and tear. Grossmann can protect Gus, who can skate for him. Luke is awesome and Streit is still a very good player. If we can't get Streit, and Mesz is healthy, he could pair with Luke and, if he regains his form, we'd have three good pairings.
Meszaros to the NYI for rights to Streit?

Personally, I'm lukewarm about going after Streit for the reasons already mentioned. This team doesn't need another multiyear, 35+, high dollar contract. If Streit would sign for a year, I'd be enthusiastic.

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05-27-2013, 12:53 PM
  #86
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I am not crazy about Streit, yes hes a good PMD. probably going to be the best one available via free agency. But he will be on a 35 plus contract and probably will be looking for a multi year deal. if hes willing to sign a 1 year deal, sure bring him aboard but I cant see him signing a 1 year deal IMO.
As far as Coburn goes, I have already expressed my feelings on him. Hes got a ton of talent and a high end skillset but for some reason he cant put it together. He is inconsistent as hell and just as frustrating. Honestly I am not sure if he will get it here.
yes he eats up a ton of minutes on the middle pair and you will have to replace that.
I proposed a deal around Coburm for Edler earlier this offseason. 2 players who may just need a change of scenery.

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05-27-2013, 12:55 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Lots of Carle haters out there, well I have come to believe that
Coburn is actually worse than Carle.

My reasoning-- Lots of defensive defenseman on this team,
his cap is too high for his value.

Carle may turn over the puck alot, but atleast he has some offensive ability.
Coburn is just another defensive defenseman and an average one at best with a big cap hit.

Not in favor of keeping Coburn, I would trade him to open up cap space for a real PMD.
We have other defensive defensemen in AHL or can pick up a FA for less.
Statistically, the team scored less when Carle was on the ice. A shocking amount less. They actually scored more with Coburn on the ice. The opposing team also scored more with Carle on than Coburn, too. Letting Carle go was the right move, and he followed it up with a horrible year in TB.

His horrific shot makes him very easy to defend because he's not a scoring threat from the blue line. Good riddance.

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05-27-2013, 01:01 PM
  #88
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and anyone comparing Carle to Yandle?
HA.

I know Yandle has his deficiencies but I would take him any day over Carle. Yandle makes better decisions with the puck then Carle does. His shot is also many times better.

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05-27-2013, 01:06 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
and anyone comparing Carle to Yandle?
HA.

I know Yandle has his deficiencies but I would take him any day over Carle. Yandle makes better decisions with the puck then Carle does. His shot is also many times better.
I don't think anyone is really comparing their talents. Carle's biggest criticism here was turning over the puck, something Yandle has a tendency to do also.

I don't want Yandle because of the cost to get him but he does have some elite offensive tools. I can't say that about Carle.

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05-27-2013, 01:31 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Fair enough. I don't fancy myself a guru so I'm definitely willing to hear opposing opinions (assuming you've got one worth posting). How about you post a detailed rebuttal and give your opinion some credibility. Until you do that, calling me ignorant is just noise.



Perhaps I do sound like a WIP caller. Let me remind you that you're also just a guy on a message board, so I think we're on equal footing, yeah? At least we will be once you actually post something that could not have been posted by my 12 year old neighbor.

No not you. The guy you were replying to.

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05-27-2013, 01:46 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I've been telling you guys for years that Carle wasn't nearly as bad as most on here thought and that we'd miss him when he was gone. It showed this year.

Carle's absence isn't the reason for the team's struggles (per se). While we surely could have used a guy like him to plug-in and play minutes amidst the triage that was the Flyers defense this season, his game is nothing special...he's yet another complementary player, and at 5.5 million, he's quite overpaid. Yzerman tried to plug Carle in as a top minute, all situations D man and he was clearly out of his depth. Many Tampa fans already want to buy Carle out. I remember many Carle supporters trying to compare Carle favorably to Suter (remember that BSH blog, lol)...now that they are each away from their former teams and support systems, Suter is a Norris finalist and Carle is finalist for fans choice of a buyout.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
There is no easy fix for this team. We have both short term and long term holes staring us square in the face. Beyond that we MUST get better as ateam in the defensive zone. Schenn, Simmonds Voracek and Read could all benefit from a Ken Hitchcock to teach them how to be much better in the defensive zone.
Now you're touching on something much more critical to success. The forwards have to support the D and the puck better. This finally started to happen in the late season games as Lavy simplified as the starting D went down...the Flyers need to stay with that increased committment to defense regardless of who is playing on the blueline. Now, with that said, they could really use a puck carrying offensive d man/pp qb to complement the existing mix and bring more production from the blueline.


Last edited by fauxflex: 05-27-2013 at 01:51 PM.
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05-27-2013, 03:14 PM
  #92
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Yzerman tried to plug Carle in as a top minute, all situations D man and he was clearly out of his depth. Many Tampa fans already want to buy Carle out. .
Hahhaha, you just made my day..

i clean forgot to watch Carle over in TB the season that just past. i was curious if he was just as ****** over there.. like i suspected he would be.




like i said when he was signed by TB, i'd have traded him for pucks and come away smiling..

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05-27-2013, 03:33 PM
  #93
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We certainly did not "give up" on Sbisa. We traded him for Chris ****ing Pronger. And how are you going to criticize the Couturier pick? He made the team right off the bat and has proven himself as a great defensive forward.

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05-27-2013, 05:09 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by fauxflex View Post
Carle's absence isn't the reason for the team's struggles (per se). While we surely could have used a guy like him to plug-in and play minutes amidst the triage that was the Flyers defense this season, his game is nothing special...he's yet another complementary player, and at 5.5 million, he's quite overpaid. Yzerman tried to plug Carle in as a top minute, all situations D man and he was clearly out of his depth. Many Tampa fans already want to buy Carle out. I remember many Carle supporters trying to compare Carle favorably to Suter (remember that BSH blog, lol)...now that they are each away from their former teams and support systems, Suter is a Norris finalist and Carle is finalist for fans choice of a buyout.
Flyer's HFBoards: 1. Everyone else: 0 (on this issue)

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05-27-2013, 05:36 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Not in favor of keeping Coburn, I would trade him to open up cap space for a real PMD.
Name the PMD we can't sign because we have cap problems?

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05-27-2013, 06:31 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Statistically, the team scored less when Carle was on the ice. A shocking amount less. They actually scored more with Coburn on the ice. The opposing team also scored more with Carle on than Coburn, too. Letting Carle go was the right move, and he followed it up with a horrible year in TB.

His horrific shot makes him very easy to defend because he's not a scoring threat from the blue line. Good riddance.
Carle has noodles for wrists.

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05-27-2013, 07:15 PM
  #97
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Flyer's HFBoards: 1. Everyone else: 0 (on this issue)
If we counted everything the Flyers board here got right about Flyers/former Flyers compared to the rest of HFboards, it would be an absolutely disgusting stat line.

Then again, theoretically that's the result that should be expected.

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05-27-2013, 07:39 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post

I don't want Yandle because of the cost to get him but he does have some elite offensive tools. I can't say that about Carle.
well its hard to argue that point about the cost to land a guy like Yandle. But he does fill a position of need for this team. He does have his deficiencies no denying that. if he was elite in every area he likely would not even be available.
So you either overpay for a guy like Yandle via trade, or overpay for a guy like Streit and his 35+ contract.

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05-27-2013, 07:45 PM
  #99
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well its hard to argue that point about the cost to land a guy like Yandle. But he does fill a position of need for this team. He does have his deficiencies no denying that. if he was elite in every area he likely would not even be available.
So you either overpay for a guy like Yandle via trade, or overpay for a guy like Streit and his 35+ contract.
Well I don't have high expectations for next year regardless if we acquire a player of Yandle's caliber or not so I'm totally fine with staying put.

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05-27-2013, 08:48 PM
  #100
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well its hard to argue that point about the cost to land a guy like Yandle. But he does fill a position of need for this team. He does have his deficiencies no denying that. if he was elite in every area he likely would not even be available.
So you either overpay for a guy like Yandle via trade, or overpay for a guy like Streit and his 35+ contract.
I would rather create a cap problem than lose a crap load of talent. This team doesn't really have talent to spare. Yandle fills a need but doesn't get this team closer to winning the cup if he costs Couturier+++.

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