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Old
05-24-2013, 10:46 AM
  #76
dmanfish90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
If you're only missing 1-2 key pieces THEN you can use UFA or trade for a big piece. I think the "build" portion of this will last until Galchenyuk is at least a top 6 guy without insulated minutes and Beaulieu/Tinordi are playing top 4 roles.

That doesn't mean we can't go on a playoff run the next 2 years or even surprise and win a la Boson/Carolina/LA but the real contending 5-6 year window should be after the next 2 years.
I agree with the first paragraph, but disagree that sometimes a key UFA (like Prust for example) comes along in FA, you should go out and get him if the pricing is right. Prust at 2.5 mil/year is excellent as he plays multiple roles on our team. Now spending 5 mil/year on David Clarkson when you shouldn't pay that much for a player like that at a time when you're sort of still rebuilding (despite our success this year people) is not the right way to go.

As for your second paragraph, Boston and Carolina were I think division winners and Boston definitely a contender that year (that team was effing stacked). Carolina was a came out from nowhere as winning the SE Division doesn't do much for you these past few years. Ward backstopped them to a Cup essentially with help from Cole, Staal, and other key players. LA underperformed that year as I believe they finished above 8th in 2010-11 (7th to be exact) and added key pieces in the offseason and during the 2011-12 season (Richards, Carter, Mitchell, Gagne, etc.). It was thanks to Sutter that they got into the POs that year (and Quick + key guys stepping up, but leadership was big for them from Darryl).

I do think we could pull a Carolina, but the problem is Carey has never played really like Cam Ward did 8 years ago to make me say "Well it's a realistic possibility". Don't get me wrong, it is possible, the big question mark: Carey Price.

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Originally Posted by MonkeyBusiness View Post
This is the playoffs, hockey is the most unpredictable sport in the world. As I've said before any team is a Stanley Cup contender if you make the playoffs, we also have alot of depth to make up for an average first line center. Plus Bergeron isn't much better than Plekanec, there is much more to winning a cup than Having an elite first line center. If Price plays like he's capable of we can beat any team.
Agreed, but look at the past 10 SC Winners. Most of them (save for Carolina, maybe someone else) were pretty much contenders going into the POs. Will agree about team make-up with regards to #1 C. However it would be nice to have a E. Staal or a Getzlaf instead of a Pleks, ya know? lol

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Originally Posted by Stripper View Post
I know right? It would be amazing..
It would only happen if you were playing NHL 12 and fast forwarded to the '14 offseason and didn't re-sign any of those guys/did all those moves you mentioned I think in the original post...

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05-24-2013, 11:20 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
It would only happen if you were playing NHL 12 and fast forwarded to the '14 offseason and didn't re-sign any of those guys/did all those moves you mentioned I think in the original post...
I'll **** if this year we get Talbot, Stalberg, Bordeleau and a guy like Douglas Murray. Then, we just have to pray that some players aren't signed (such as Bergeron and Brown!)

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05-26-2013, 02:13 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
What does that mean "bonafide"?

Is he of Ryan Getzlaf, Sidney Crosby, Pavel Datsyuk quality. Absolutely not. He's a 1b/2A Centre. On teams like us, FLA, COL, NSH, etc. he's a #1. On teams like Boston, Anaheim, Vancouver, etc. he's a #2. So basically for us to be a SC Contender, we would eventually need a #1 C that will outplay him (Galchenyuk in 5-6 years or earlier) and he needs to remain as good as he's been in previous years being a #2 specialist (PK and PP too).



He had flashes (Plekanec) when he scored 70 pts (good on at least 10 teams as a #1 C) but ultimately no, not really a #1, more #1B/#2A like I said above.



Really? I don't see it, unless he's got 41 in 41.



A playoff contending team? Yes. A SC contending team? No.



We are, but again IDK how many good UFAs we attract in 2014. However, with Gionta, Markov, Bouillon, and hopefully Diaz traded for something of value by then, we should have enough cap space after re-signing Markov to a veteran deal (1-2 years at 2.5-4 million per season) to make a small dip into the UFA pool.
wake up Pleks is not a #1 center , I dont care even on a weak team he is #1 by default , he is a 2 nothing more ,solid but forget the top line status

Towes , Sid etc ...are #1

its like saying Prospal , Erat or Glencross are front line wingers because thier teams have nothing else to use

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Old
05-26-2013, 02:17 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
wake up Pleks is not a #1 center , I dont care even on a weak team he is #1 by default , he is a 2 nothing more ,solid but forget the top line status

Towes , Sid etc ...are #1

its like saying Prospal , Erat or Glencross are front line wingers because thier teams have nothing else to use
Plekanec pulls 60+ points season even when he is the only player to produce on his line through a whole season. He was one of our most producing forward despite hardly ever playing with our 2 best wingers (Galchenyuk and Gallagher).

I think it's dishonest to classify him has 2nd string center when he pull a whole line on his back and you can't find reliable wingers for a whole season to play with him.

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05-26-2013, 02:19 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by NLHabsFan View Post
What is your definition of a bona-fide first line center? There's 30 teams in the league, so 30 #1 centers. I think Plekanec is in that top 30 or at the very least has a good case to be, but there will be arguments for guys in that 20-45 range.
there are about 15 legit number one centers thats it


there are 30 goalies as well and Bryzgalov is not a #1 goalie and neither is Varlomov by your ratings and standards

front liners are top tier players , not quality support players

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05-26-2013, 02:26 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Issacar View Post
Plekanec pulls 60+ points season even when he is the only player to produce on his line through a whole season. He was one of our most producing forward despite hardly ever playing with our 2 best wingers (Galchenyuk and Gallagher).

I think it's dishonest to classify him has 2nd string center when he pull a whole line on his back and you can't find reliable wingers for a whole season to play with him.
he has put 2 60 point seasons under his belt , cmon lets call a spade a spade

Begeron is one of the best 2 way centers in hockey and he is a 60 point player and no one will take Pleks over him , NO ONE and he isn`t bonafide #1

you are over estimating what a legit #1 means at any position ,its the cream of the crop

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05-26-2013, 02:42 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
he has put 2 60 point seasons under his belt , cmon lets call a spade a spade

Begeron is one of the best 2 way centers in hockey and he is a 60 point player and no one will take Pleks over him , NO ONE and he isn`t bonafide #1

you are over estimating what a legit #1 means at any position ,its the cream of the crop
Yes those 2 seasons where when he had 2 quality wingers for the whole year.

That season we finished 1st, he ended up with 57 points (close enough to 60 points no?) and that's despite the fact that they kept changing his linemate because we had to find a productive winger for Gomez.

That season we finished 15th, he still managed 52 points. And that's despite being a one line player.

This season he had 33 points (if you pro rate that it would give him somewhere around 55 and 60 points) and as I mentionned, he hardly played with our top 2 wingers.

I also believe that Bergeron and Plekanec are equivalent players. You could make a trade 1 on 1 and it would be fair.

So only elite players (whom there's not enough for every teams in the Leauge at any given positions) are legit first liners? I think it's you who overestimate the probabilities of having a legit elite players in your team.

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05-26-2013, 02:46 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
there are about 15 legit number one centers thats it


there are 30 goalies as well and Bryzgalov is not a #1 goalie and neither is Varlomov by your ratings and standards

front liners are top tier players , not quality support players
Going by your standard, there's not even 5 goalies who are real #1 goalie in the NHL. No Bryz and Varlamov are not legit #1 goalie (still going by your standard).

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Old
05-26-2013, 03:56 PM
  #84
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reading some of the comments and line-up wishes, I didn't know the salary cap was going to be 125 millions in two years.

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Old
05-26-2013, 04:38 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
he has put 2 60 point seasons under his belt , cmon lets call a spade a spade

Begeron is one of the best 2 way centers in hockey and he is a 60 point player and no one will take Pleks over him , NO ONE and he isn`t bonafide #1

you are over estimating what a legit #1 means at any position ,its the cream of the crop
No, you're just wrong. You can't make up your own arbitrary definition.

First line center by definition is a top 30 center in the NHL. End of.

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05-26-2013, 06:45 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Issacar View Post
Yes those 2 seasons where when he had 2 quality wingers for the whole year.

That season we finished 1st, he ended up with 57 points (close enough to 60 points no?) and that's despite the fact that they kept changing his linemate because we had to find a productive winger for Gomez.

That season we finished 15th, he still managed 52 points. And that's despite being a one line player.

This season he had 33 points (if you pro rate that it would give him somewhere around 55 and 60 points) and as I mentionned, he hardly played with our top 2 wingers.

I also believe that Bergeron and Plekanec are equivalent players. You could make a trade 1 on 1 and it would be fair.

So only elite players (whom there's not enough for every teams in the Leauge at any given positions) are legit first liners? I think it's you who overestimate the probabilities of having a legit elite players in your team.
call Boston and see if we can do it straight up ....oops Peter hung up

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05-26-2013, 06:54 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by kalessin View Post
No, you're just wrong. You can't make up your own arbitrary definition.

First line center by definition is a top 30 center in the NHL. End of.
no you are nuts my friend

do you follow football at all ? was Ryan Fitzpatrick a front line QB for the Bills cause he was one of 30 QB`S .

is Amir Johnson of the Raptors a front line power forward , cause he starts on a bad Raptor team ?

who the well would mention either of the above as front liners , cmon

go and read the TSN or the Hockey News top 50 rated players in the NHL

maybe add 10 more and thats it for " legit front line players in this league |"

the 29th ranked goalie isnt on that list or the 30Th ranked dman and they dont belong

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05-27-2013, 08:09 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
no you are nuts my friend

do you follow football at all ? was Ryan Fitzpatrick a front line QB for the Bills cause he was one of 30 QB`S .

is Amir Johnson of the Raptors a front line power forward , cause he starts on a bad Raptor team ?

who the well would mention either of the above as front liners , cmon

go and read the TSN or the Hockey News top 50 rated players in the NHL

maybe add 10 more and thats it for " legit front line players in this league |"

the 29th ranked goalie isnt on that list or the 30Th ranked dman and they dont belong
I don't believe he said the top player on every team is a top player.
But that all of the top 30 centres are first line centers.
Like Crosby and Malkin they are on the same team but both are top 30 centres. Or first line centres.

That said so are Riberio and Backstrom

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05-27-2013, 04:14 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by JMMR View Post
I don't believe he said the top player on every team is a top player.
But that all of the top 30 centres are first line centers.
Like Crosby and Malkin they are on the same team but both are top 30 centres. Or first line centres.

That said so are Riberio and Backstrom
he meant if there are 30 teams there are 30 #1 centers

by default there has to be

but cmon a front liner is not Ray Whitney or Tyler Bozak , its stupid

there are only 50-60 front liners in this league and thats it folks

thats what seperates the stars from non

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05-27-2013, 04:51 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
call Boston and see if we can do it straight up ....oops Peter hung up
I didn't even picked up the phone, they can keep their Nordiques lover.

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05-27-2013, 05:07 PM
  #91
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For the '14-'15 season I think these are our prospects that would most likely be competing for roster spots in the show:

Left wing: Charles Hudon, Tim Bozon
Center: Louis Leblanc, Michael Bournival, Brady Vail, Gabriel Dumont, Daniel Pribyl(if he gets signed soon)
Right wing: Sebastien Collberg, Danny Kristo
Defense: Nathan Beaulieu, Jarred Tinordi, Morgan Ellis, Darren Dietz, Greg Pateryn, Magnus Nygren, Dalton Thrower, Josiah Didier

This pool does not include any of our core long-term players that we already have in Montreal...such as: (age 19-25)

Left Wing: Max Patches,
Center: Alex Gally, Lars Eller
Right Wing: Brendan Gallagher
Defense: PK Subban

As well we have a couple of veterans on our team who I personally would like to see stick around, such as: (age 25+)

Left Wing: Brandon Prust, Rene Bourque
Center: Tomas Plekanec, Ryan White
Right Wing: None...sorry Gio fans
Defense: Alex Emelin, Josh Gorges, Andrei Markov

If you didn't notice I hope to somehow cut ties with DD and Diaz.

Which leads me to my '14-'15 line up which does not include any picks in the next two years, nor does it include future free agents we may sign (obviously):

Max Patches - Alex Galchenyuk - Brendan Gallagher
Rene Bourque - Tomas Plekanec - Sebastien Collberg
Charles Hudon - Lars Eller - Danny Kristo
Brandon Prust - Brady Vail - Ryan White

Andrei Markov - Alex Emelin
Josh Gorges - PK Subban
Nathan Beaulieu - Jarred Tinordi
Darren Dietz

+ any other players we sign and/or draft!

Now that line up is nothing set in stone. I just drew it up to give you an idea of the talent pool Michel would be working with that season (as long as he's still here )

Just from looking at that line up I see we have about 4 young talented scorers in Gally, Collberg, Kristo and Hudon. Even though these kids dont have amazing size (which is a huge deal around here none shy away from getting their noses dirty).

Although the one thing in particular about this line up is that while Galchenyuk, Pleks and Eller down the middle may work very well for us while Plekanec is good, I fear when he leaves it would fall apart. I know this is not a popular opinion but I believe Eller to be a life time 3rd line center for us. Don't get me wrong I like Eller I just think he would do us best manning the 3rd line and being a stud there.

I agree with the opinion of us trading up in the 1st round if a blue chip prospect falls so we can snag one more core player for our team. Players (not necessarily blue chip) that come to mind to me: Bo Horvat, Jimmy Lodge, or Sean Monahan...former of which would be a giant pipe-dream. IMO we need another big talented center to compliment Galchenyuk which would eventually replace Pleks and solidify our center group. Then take BPA the rest of the draft and take advantage of this strong draft class.

TL;DR: I want us to trade up for a big named center prospect because I feel we have a pretty strong core of young prospects right now that one more blue chip guy could put us over the top. Mix that in with the players we have now, plus draft picks in the next two years, AND any free agents we choose to sign and I think we're in pretty damn good shape.

Sorry for the post being so long, but long time lurker finally posting for the first time and hoping my new-found voice will be well received!

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Old
05-27-2013, 08:37 PM
  #92
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I didn't even picked up the phone, they can keep their Nordiques lover.
great move , u dont want the third best 2 way center in hockey , for Pleks

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05-27-2013, 09:09 PM
  #93
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I don't know that we'll have so much need for a UFA "splash" come 2014-15...

MaxPac - Galch - Gallagher
Bourque - Pleks - Kristo*
***- Eller - Leblanc*
Moen - Dumont/White- Prust
(Bournival/Collberg/Hudon/Bozon/Holland


Subban - Gorges
Diaz - Tinordi*
Emelin - Beaulieu*
(Elllis/Nygren/Thrower/Dietz/Bennett)


*obviously no guarantee that Kristo/Leblanc/Tinordi/Beaulieu are ready to seize those roles (or still with the organization), but if they progress even remotely as expected/positively (and in Kristo/Leblanc's cases, if they are still habs it's because they are filling those roles), then you could pencil them in to those spots (top-6 winger, 3rd-line winger, top-4 defensive dman, bottom pairing dman) pretty comfortably.)


Aside from trying to secure a rugged top-9 player (Callahan, Brown, Downie, Boyle, Bolland are potential UFA targets, but few of them will get to the open market in 2014), I don't think we'll have much need to shop on the UFA market to bolster the team.

I think we're both talented enough and deep enough over the next 2-3 years to either swing for the fences (malkin/datsyuk can play for any team any time) or focus on minor tweaks/adjustments to complement the core we have.

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05-27-2013, 09:25 PM
  #94
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I stopped reading at Plekanec centering the first line. Pretty much another VERY INSIGHTFUL "let's bash DD cause he actually exists" post in disguise.
DD was never the 1st line centre, just a sheltered little man with big wingers.

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Old
05-27-2013, 09:36 PM
  #95
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Bergeron will never play for the Habs, unless we give up the farm for him. He's one of, if not the single most important player on the Bruins and one of the best players in the league. The Bruins aren't letting him go, they will almost certainly match any offer in the realm of reasonableness and Bergeron is a childhood Nordiques fan with no attachment to the city of Montreal.

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05-27-2013, 09:39 PM
  #96
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No way the Pens don't sign Malkin. Only way Malkin becomes a FA is if he showed no sign whatsoever of wanting to resign in Pittsburgh. Why would he not want to stay in Pen land when he shares center duties with one of the best centers in the league. Now someone like Orpik might hit FA. If they sign Malkin and letang they won't have space for Orpik unless they get rid of someone like Neal. My guess is they let Orpik go and bring in younger cheaper D to fill his spot.

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05-27-2013, 09:50 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by googlymoogly View Post
No way the Pens don't sign Malkin. Only way Malkin becomes a FA is if he showed no sign whatsoever of wanting to resign in Pittsburgh. Why would he not want to stay in Pen land when he shares center duties with one of the best centers in the league. Now someone like Orpik might hit FA. If they sign Malkin and letang they won't have space for Orpik unless they get rid of someone like Neal. My guess is they let Orpik go and bring in younger cheaper D to fill his spot.
Agreed. Someone like Depres would be ready by then.

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05-27-2013, 10:08 PM
  #98
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hopefully plekachu is gone by 2014 2015

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