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2013-14 Flyers Overhaul Part II

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Old
05-27-2013, 08:59 PM
  #101
GoneFullHextall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Well I don't have high expectations for next year regardless if we acquire a player of Yandle's caliber or not so I'm totally fine with staying put.
My expectations for next season arent high either. but you know staying put isnt what is going to happen. They didnt fire the Lavy or Holmgren so its fairly obvious what is going to happen.

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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I would rather create a cap problem than lose a crap load of talent. This team doesn't really have talent to spare. Yandle fills a need but doesn't get this team closer to winning the cup if he costs Couturier+++.
the Flyers are pretty much always in "cap hell". I dont know if it will ever be possible for this organization to ice a competitive team without being in "cap hell"
As far as dealing Couturier for a guy like Yandle I dont want it to happen. But someone is likely getting traded from this "stacked" forward core.

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05-27-2013, 09:05 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
As far as dealing Couturier for a guy like Yandle I dont want it to happen. But someone is likely getting traded from this "stacked" forward core.
Trading Couturier would continue the trend of a traded former Flyer lifting the cup before any player actual wearing a Flyers jersey does.

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05-27-2013, 09:12 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
Name the PMD we can't sign because we have cap problems?
I am not sure who is available, I know top end #1 defensemen are
getting 8 Million a year or more.

That is what we would have paid for Weber or Suter.
Besides we just resigned Timmo for 6 million a year.

To pay 4.5 for Coburn is a waste of cap space.
We need better and as fans we deserve better.

We need his 4.5+ to sign a decent PMD especially since next
year is Timmo's last season.

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Old
05-27-2013, 09:15 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
Trading Couturier would continue the trend of a traded former Flyer lifting the cup before any player actual wearing a Flyers jersey does.
Thats why I am in favor of rebuilding the defense now.
We rebuilt the offense when we traded Richards and Carter.
Time to rebuild the defense now, in fact they should have rebuilt
the defense first, then started on the offense.

If they rebuild the defense then they can go back to drafting centers,
something they have a success at on draft day.

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05-27-2013, 09:34 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
I am not sure who is available, I know top end #1 defensemen are
getting 8 Million a year or more.

That is what we would have paid for Weber or Suter.
Besides we just resigned Timmo for 6 million a year.

To pay 4.5 for Coburn is a waste of cap space.
We need better and as fans we deserve better.

We need his 4.5+ to sign a decent PMD especially since next
year is Timmo's last season.
There is nobody available.

We could offer 12mil a year...there is NOBODY available. Cap space is not a big deal if you have nobody to spend money on.

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Old
05-27-2013, 09:42 PM
  #106
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If I were to make changes for this team i would :

BUYOUTS : Bryzgalov,Briere

Free Agent Signings : K. Ballard (D) B. Richards (G) Mike Smith

Release : Foster, Huskins, Hall, Fedotenko, Gervais,

Trade : Meszaros - 4th or 3rd round pick,

lines

Draft: Nurse if available or Pulock.

*assuming richards and ballard get bought out


Read - Giroux - Voracek

B.Richards - Couturier - Simmonds

Gagne - B.Schenn - Rinaldo

Akeson - Talbot - Rosehill


Timonen - Schenn

Lauridsen - Coburn

Ballard - Grossmann


Mason

Smith

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Old
05-27-2013, 09:44 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrazyKat View Post
If I were to make changes for this team i would :

BUYOUTS : Bryzgalov,Briere

Free Agent Signings : K. Ballard (D) B. Richards (G) Mike Smith

Release : Foster, Huskins, Hall, Fedotenko, Gervais,

Trade : Meszaros - 4th or 3rd round pick,

lines

Draft: Nurse if available or Pulock.

*assuming richards and ballard get bought out


Read - Giroux - Voracek

B.Richards - Couturier - Simmonds

Gagne - B.Schenn - Rinaldo

Akeson - Talbot - Rosehill


Timonen - Schenn

Lauridsen - Coburn

Ballard - Grossmann


Mason

Smith


Omg...no.

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Old
05-27-2013, 09:45 PM
  #108
LegionOfDoom91
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That could possibly be the worst three free agent signings we could make this offseason if it were to happen.

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Old
05-27-2013, 10:06 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegendkiller View Post
No not you. The guy you were replying to.
Oops, my fault.

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Old
05-27-2013, 10:30 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrazyKat View Post
If I were to make changes for this team i would :

Free Agent Signings : K. Ballard (D) B. Richards (G) Mike Smith
For a start Ballard makes $4.2 mill and the Canucks don't play him if they can help it, also he is not a FA until 2015/16.

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Old
05-27-2013, 10:35 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by OzFlyer View Post
For a start Ballard makes $4.2 mill and the Canucks don't play him if they can help it, also he is not a FA until 2015/16.
He's likely to get bought-out this summer but point remains we should stay away from him.

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Old
05-27-2013, 11:20 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
There is nobody available.

We could offer 12mil a year...there is NOBODY available. Cap space is not a big deal if you have nobody to spend money on.
As FA you could be right.
I am willing to trade for PMD and we will need cap room to sign him.
Coburn wastes cap, he needs to go.
The only way he stays is if Grossmann is out still with his concussion.

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Old
05-28-2013, 01:08 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
I am willing to trade for PMD and we will need cap room to sign him.
Don't worry, with the price a #1 PMD costs in a trade, we will have PLENTY of cap room.

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Old
05-28-2013, 08:48 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrazyKat View Post
If I were to make changes for this team i would :

BUYOUTS : Bryzgalov,Briere

Free Agent Signings : K. Ballard (D) B. Richards (G) Mike Smith

Release : Foster, Huskins, Hall, Fedotenko, Gervais,

Trade : Meszaros - 4th or 3rd round pick,

lines

Draft: Nurse if available or Pulock.

*assuming richards and ballard get bought out


Read - Giroux - Voracek

B.Richards - Couturier - Simmonds

Gagne - B.Schenn - Rinaldo

Akeson - Talbot - Rosehill


Timonen - Schenn

Lauridsen - Coburn

Ballard - Grossmann


Mason

Smith
wow...that's just terrible

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Old
05-28-2013, 09:29 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
Don't worry, with the price a #1 PMD costs in a trade, we will have PLENTY of cap room.
With the state of this defense, I say go ahead.
You rebuilt the offense, time to fix this backend.
Start with the goalie, then add some offensive minded PMD to this roster.
Timmonen will retire soon and all we will have is Gustafsson.

It is time to stop thinking cup or bust this year(like always) so we will have a chance
in a 2 years to get to playoffs with a chance to win.

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Old
05-28-2013, 09:53 AM
  #116
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That line-up would be the slowest defensive core EVER iced

I know Coburn is good skater, but Grossman and Ballard? yikes.

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Old
05-28-2013, 10:01 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I would rather create a cap problem than lose a crap load of talent. This team doesn't really have talent to spare. Yandle fills a need but doesn't get this team closer to winning the cup if he costs Couturier+++.
This/

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05-28-2013, 10:05 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
With the state of this defense, I say go ahead.
You rebuilt the offense, time to fix this backend.
Start with the goalie, then add some offensive minded PMD to this roster.
Timmonen will retire soon and all we will have is Gustafsson.

It is time to stop thinking cup or bust this year(like always) so we will have a chance
in a 2 years to get to playoffs with a chance to win.
You are aware that most of those guys from the offensive rebuild would be likely going the other way for a #1 defensemen?

You'd be fixing one problem while creating another.

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Old
05-28-2013, 10:06 AM
  #119
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Yeah let's give up on Couturier ++++ for a D man that is just above mid-range (not a bonafide D man).

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Old
05-28-2013, 10:15 AM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
You are aware that most of those guys from the offensive rebuild would be likely going the other way for a #1 defensemen?

You'd be fixing one problem while creating another.
True, but that is why I say they rebuilt it wrong.
Should have gotten defensemen first.
They take longer to develop, you would have plenty of time
to draft centers and forwards while the defensemen were
developing their game in minors.
Then you wouldn't have to gut your forwards to replenish your defense.

IMHO, you can't win a cup with this defense, just too average.
Time to blow the team up again I am afraid.
This is why you build from goalie out not from front line to backend.

You can not just keep patching this defense with players other teams
no longer need and expect it to be more than adequate.

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05-28-2013, 10:27 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Yeah let's give up on Couturier ++++ for a D man that is just above mid-range (not a bonafide D man).
Hey, we haven't won a Cup in nearly 4 decades, why not set the team back another 5 years?

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05-28-2013, 11:07 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Hey, we haven't won a Cup in nearly 4 decades, why not set the team back another 5 years?
the Flyers: offical training ground for future Stanley Cup Champion players (on other teams)..

hahaha


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Old
05-28-2013, 11:18 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
True, but that is why I say they rebuilt it wrong.
Should have gotten defensemen first.
They take longer to develop, you would have plenty of time
to draft centers and forwards while the defensemen were
developing their game in minors.
Then you wouldn't have to gut your forwards to replenish your defense.

IMHO, you can't win a cup with this defense, just too average.
Time to blow the team up again I am afraid.
This is why you build from goalie out not from front line to backend.

You can not just keep patching this defense with players other teams
no longer need and expect it to be more than adequate.

Yeah...no.

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Old
05-28-2013, 01:00 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
True, but that is why I say they rebuilt it wrong.
Should have gotten defensemen first.
They take longer to develop, you would have plenty of time
to draft centers and forwards while the defensemen were
developing their game in minors.
Then you wouldn't have to gut your forwards to replenish your defense.

IMHO, you can't win a cup with this defense, just too average.
Time to blow the team up again I am afraid.
This is why you build from goalie out not from front line to backend.

You can not just keep patching this defense with players other teams
no longer need and expect it to be more than adequate.
Look. I think everybody on here understands your dislike of how the team has been built and how you think the defense is crap, but another rebuild would only set this team back another couple years.

Paul Holmgren came in during the 06-07 season, likely with a five-year plan built around Richards, Carter and the results of the Forsberg trade.

At the end of the 2010-11 season, five seasons had passed since Holmgren came in midway through 06-07. Clearly, Holmgren felt the team had peaked and felt that the current team structure (no goalie) and started a new five-year plan likely built around Bryzgalov, Giroux and the results of the Richards and Carter trades. Bryzgalov has been a failure thus far. Giroux has lived up to expectations as a #1 PPG center who already hit 90 points and makes everybody around him better. The Richards and Carter trades - on paper - have worked out wonderfully and replenished the Flyers depleted roster. It hurts that they went on to win a Cup, though.

The team is not going to rebuild again, or overpay for players. They could've with Weber. I still think they might for somebody like Ryan or Yandle and I don't think it would be the right move. The team is just recovering from all the selling of futures for aging or rental players. Like the Pronger trade...

The loss of Chris Pronger is something people overlook as we paid Lupul, Sbisa and two firsts in hopes that he'd play into his 40s - or until he lost a big step. Now, it is a lot like the retirement of a great player that you paid a lot of assets to get except you have to still deal with the cap-hit. The loss of Pronger really ruined the defense and likely destroyed Holmgren's plans to have the defense led by our captain and Hall of Fame veteran while injecting youth into it year by year. Now, he's just gone and a giant hole has been left both on the roster and in our asset pool. That's why I think the defense should be built mostly from within from now on. Pay huge to get Pronger, pay huge to replace him, pay huge to replace whoever we shipped off for him, and it's just a neverending cycle of a loss of assets. It's just stupid.

If McGinn and Laughton make the team next season, we'll have 5 players on the team that were drafted by the team. None of them being defensemen. None of them being goaltenders. I think it's safe to say the reason our defense looks like it does is because we either trade for them or sign them as UFAs, never getting the cheap years on an ELC or the cheap 2nd contract.

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05-28-2013, 06:41 PM
  #125
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Reply by: ahthorne

[That's why I think the defense should be built mostly from within from now on. Pay huge to get Pronger, pay huge to replace him, pay huge to replace whoever we shipped off for him, and it's just a neverending cycle of a loss of assets. It's just stupid.
If McGinn and Laughton make the team next season, we'll have 5 players on the team that were drafted by the team. None of them being defensemen. None of them being goaltenders. I think it's safe to say the reason our defense looks like it does is because we either trade for them or sign them as UFAs, never getting the cheap years on an ELC or the cheap 2nd contract.]


If we could just draft a #1 defenseman we would stop this drain of
assets but, the Flyers do not want to draft a defenseman.
Its not like I want to give all our assets away for a #1 defensman.
I just do not see a reasonable option at this point.
Who wants to go to the rink to see the defense play so poorly.

It is either draft one or trade for one, nothing we have will become a #1.
The only other option is to hope and pray they improve. I am not betting on it.
Timmonen will be gone after next year and what is our plan to replace him?
I did not make this mess, Holmer did.

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