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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 8.0

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05-28-2013, 07:27 AM
  #851
Fozz
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Originally Posted by ChesterNimitz View Post
So you think there is a marked difference in the upside of players that will be available at 25/23 and 34/36?

Regrettably, I think Morin will be long gone before our first round draft pick so the point is moot.
This year, I see a group of 30+ players that could go anywhere between the 15th and 45th pick. It's what makes this draft special.

I really wish we could see all the teams top 50 prospects list... We would be amazed at how different they look and we'd be scratching our heads at some of the rankings for most if not all of those lists.

In other words, someone will be 25th of one list that will be 34/36 on another, so it doesn't make that much difference, IMO.

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05-28-2013, 08:13 AM
  #852
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
This year, I see a group of 30+ players that could go anywhere between the 15th and 45th pick. It's what makes this draft special.

I really wish we could see all the teams top 50 prospects list... We would be amazed at how different they look and we'd be scratching our heads at some of the rankings for most if not all of those lists.

In other words, someone will be 25th of one list that will be 34/36 on another, so it doesn't make that much difference, IMO.
I agree. I think the 1st 15-16 are pretty much locks although there may be some jockeying for position from 7 to 16. A couple might fall a bit and a couple might creep into the top 16 but nothing that imo will affect who is available when the Habs pick. I think this draft is ideal for "targetting" certain individuals and drafting accordingly and this is what I expect, or at least hope, the habs do. For example, Klimchuk is ranked more in the 34-38 range but it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to take him at 25 IF the Habs really want him because there is likely to be guys available at 34/36 who are ranked high teens or low 20s. I think this extends into the 2nd round, and (although perhaps to a lesser degree) to the 3rd round. Frankly, I'm almost as pumped about seeing who Habs pick in the 3rd round as in the 1st 2 rounds because I think there are some very intriguing prospects and well as a few "gems" that will come out of the 3rd round as well. Just my 2 cents.


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05-28-2013, 08:17 AM
  #853
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
This year, I see a group of 30+ players that could go anywhere between the 15th and 45th pick. It's what makes this draft special.

I really wish we could see all the teams top 50 prospects list... We would be amazed at how different they look and we'd be scratching our heads at some of the rankings for most if not all of those lists.

In other words, someone will be 25th of one list that will be 34/36 on another, so it doesn't make that much difference, IMO.
Well I sure hope a group of 30 players goes between the 15th and 45th pick

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05-28-2013, 08:27 AM
  #854
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So what about the fact that 12 forwards and only 6 defensemen usually dress for a game. That's a ratio of two to one.

In the system we have: Tinordi, Beaulieu, Bennet, Ellis, Dietz, Thrower, Nygren, Didier & Pateryn with reasonable chances of making the team. That's 9 defensive prospects.

You think we have 18 forwards with decent prospects of making the team?

Kristo
Nattinen
Colberg
Bozon
Hudon
MacMillan
Bourinval
Leblanc
Dumont
Holland

That's only 10. We're still missing 8 to keep pace with our forward/defencemen ratio. If we draft all forwards we'll still be behind.
most likely not

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05-28-2013, 08:28 AM
  #855
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
This year, I see a group of 30+ players that could go anywhere between the 15th and 45th pick. It's what makes this draft special.

I really wish we could see all the teams top 50 prospects list... We would be amazed at how different they look and we'd be scratching our heads at some of the rankings for most if not all of those lists.
In other words, someone will be 25th of one list that will be 34/36 on another, so it doesn't make that much difference, IMO.
Perhaps that is why some teams are perennially contenders and others are, less so.

This is a unique draft in its depth which may allow a team drafting in the late second round to acquire a player that is equal to or even superior to those taken in the mid or late first round. While this may happen in any draft year, it would appear that this year such an occurrence is more a probability than a mere possibility.

While the drafting of teenagers is an inexact science, if a team has a strong feeling about a player's potential impact, then they should be aggressive in their efforts to place themselves in a position to acquire that player. As the draft unfolds and a player that the Canadiens have identified as having that potential impact falls, then they should be ready to make an aggressive move. But only if it is cost effective. Sometimes the best transaction is the one that you don't make. Because of the depth and strength of this draft, I would be perfectly content to retain our 6 picks in the first three rounds and let Timmins select the best available players. Let us all hope he has a good day.

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05-28-2013, 08:35 AM
  #856
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ISS has Erne out of the top 30, which isn't a complete surprise...I'd say there's a legitimate possibility he could still be on the board by our pick. Would you guys take him?

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05-28-2013, 08:56 AM
  #857
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ISS has Erne out of the top 30, which isn't a complete surprise...I'd say there's a legitimate possibility he could still be on the board by our pick. Would you guys take him?
i know there are character issues, but without a 2nd thought...

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05-28-2013, 09:08 AM
  #858
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Would you guys pick Morin if he's available with our first despite our many D prospects ? I've read articles that praise him but is it mostly because of his size or does he really have a high ceiling?

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05-28-2013, 09:09 AM
  #859
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ISS has Erne out of the top 30, which isn't a complete surprise...I'd say there's a legitimate possibility he could still be on the board by our pick. Would you guys take him?
I saw him a couples of times with the Quebec Remparts and I think he's good enough to be stongly considered if he's available. Remind me Derek Roy, with 2 inches more.

Woodlief putted him 10th: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...eport/2360467/

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05-28-2013, 09:15 AM
  #860
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Originally Posted by ChesterNimitz View Post
Perhaps that is why some teams are perennially contenders and others are, less so.

This is a unique draft in its depth which may allow a team drafting in the late second round to acquire a player that is equal to or even superior to those taken in the mid or late first round. While this may happen in any draft year, it would appear that this year such an occurrence is more a probability than a mere possibility.

While the drafting of teenagers is an inexact science, if a team has a strong feeling about a player's potential impact, then they should be aggressive in their efforts to place themselves in a position to acquire that player. As the draft unfolds and a player that the Canadiens have identified as having that potential impact falls, then they should be ready to make an aggressive move. But only if it is cost effective. Sometimes the best transaction is the one that you don't make. Because of the depth and strength of this draft, I would be perfectly content to retain our 6 picks in the first three rounds and let Timmins select the best available players. Let us all hope he has a good day.
Well said!

My only fear is that Timmins may be under increased pressure to draft some homegrown talent. Hopefully he is left to his best judgement in regards to his personal BPA and not the Quebec born BPA.

I understand it is frustrating to lose local talent at the draft but I really hope he doesn't force the issue as this is where mistakes happen.

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05-28-2013, 09:31 AM
  #861
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Well said!

My only fear is that Timmins may be under increased pressure to draft some homegrown talent. Hopefully he is left to his best judgement in regards to his personal BPA and not the Quebec born BPA.

I understand it is frustrating to lose local talent at the draft but I really hope he doesn't force the issue as this is where mistakes happen.
There is no doubt that the language issue has, to a degree, hamstrung the decision making process of the team over the years, as it has with respect to other aspects of Quebec society. The eternal search for the next great local 'hope' is always present. With the growing globalization of the game which is witnessing a increasing percentage of players coming from outside of Canada, let us all hope that the team has the wisdom to select the best players available, regardless of their birth places.

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05-28-2013, 09:34 AM
  #862
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Well said!

My only fear is that Timmins may be under increased pressure to draft some homegrown talent. Hopefully he is left to his best judgement in regards to his personal BPA and not the Quebec born BPA.

I understand it is frustrating to lose local talent at the draft but I really hope he doesn't force the issue as this is where mistakes happen.
Agree 100% but I suspect (or at least HOPE) that Timmins will be instructed to take local talent only where value is equal to or greater than others available. Otherwise, as you said, if he starts "reaching" for local talent, mistakes are gonna happen.

Edit: While I think Bergevin doesn't want to miss out on local talent, I don't think he's going to compromise the growth and quality of the team in "reaching" for it.

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05-28-2013, 09:37 AM
  #863
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
ISS has Erne out of the top 30, which isn't a complete surprise...I'd say there's a legitimate possibility he could still be on the board by our pick. Would you guys take him?
I'd be running to the podium.

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05-28-2013, 09:46 AM
  #864
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That would be awesome! I find our D prospects to be massively overrated at this point and there's really nothing sure with them. Beaulieu has potential but he might never develop into anything more than a 4th dmen for all we know. Tinordi is also an interesting prospect but he's also far from a sure thing. Nygren has never played an NHL game and is an average skaer. Ellis might never reach the NHL. Sure all those guys have upside and COULD become useful NHLers, I'm not denying that. But if there's one thing we have to keep in mind, every freaking year, here on hfboards we see many posters doing their projections of our future line up with our prospects. Fact is, it's not even 20% of the projected NHLers (by the posters here) that even make it to the NHL.

IMO, top4 quality dmen are freaking hard to find. They cost a lot in trades and they're hard to get via free agency. I'd rather draft a guy that could become a quality dman instead of a future 2nd liner. Also, when we look at our team, the defense isn't solid. That means what we have right now as out top4 isn't good enough. We need better players than Gorges, Emelin, Diaz and etc.
Why do you find them overrated? Both Beaulieu and Tinordi played NHL games at 20 and didn't look out of place. Most non-Habs related experts see them both among the top 50 prospects in the NHL.

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Yes, I don't want Morin. Every year the fans get obsessed over some tall D man and think he'll be our answer to Chara.
Morin projects more like Myers(pre contract extension) than Chara. Not as big but more mobile and offensive upside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
ISS has Erne out of the top 30, which isn't a complete surprise...I'd say there's a legitimate possibility he could still be on the board by our pick. Would you guys take him?
Given the depth of the draft it wouldn't be a shock if he made it to our 1st.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsDan93 View Post
Would you guys pick Morin if he's available with our first despite our many D prospects ? I've read articles that praise him but is it mostly because of his size or does he really have a high ceiling?
Most teams bumped him up in the 2nd half because of his offensive development, what will probably get him drafted mid 1st is he is not only big, mobile with toughness but also makes a good first pass and has a solid base offensively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChesterNimitz View Post
There is no doubt that the language issue has, to a degree, hamstrung the decision making process of the team over the years, as it has with respect to other aspects of Quebec society. The eternal search for the next great local 'hope' is always present. With the growing globalization of the game which is witnessing a increasing percentage of players coming from outside of Canada, let us all hope that the team has the wisdom to select the best players available, regardless of their birth places.
Given the rebirth of the team this year, I don't think MB TT or anybody else is under tremendous heat to grab Quebecers. I think they will draft/sign a few not because they ahve to but because they want to. A deep draft in the QMJHL like this makes it a lot easier.

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05-28-2013, 09:47 AM
  #865
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Well I sure hope a group of 30 players goes between the 15th and 45th pick
took me a while, but i got what you did there

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05-28-2013, 10:11 AM
  #866
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Well said!

My only fear is that Timmins may be under increased pressure to draft some homegrown talent. Hopefully he is left to his best judgement in regards to his personal BPA and not the Quebec born BPA.

I understand it is frustrating to lose local talent at the draft but I really hope he doesn't force the issue as this is where mistakes happen.
Bergevin will not sign Archambault so clearly, he wants local talents, but only if they are the best options. It's gonna be the case with the 50 contracts and at the draft table.

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05-28-2013, 10:16 AM
  #867
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Originally Posted by ChesterNimitz View Post
There is no doubt that the language issue has, to a degree, hamstrung the decision making process of the team over the years, as it has with respect to other aspects of Quebec society. The eternal search for the next great local 'hope' is always present. With the growing globalization of the game which is witnessing a increasing percentage of players coming from outside of Canada, let us all hope that the team has the wisdom to select the best players available, regardless of their birth places.

I think there is more noise after the fact when local boy makes good and MN kid doesn't. The Habs did however do a really poor job of scouting their own backyard for many years. There seemed to be a lack of resources allocated to the Q. That seems to have changed.

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05-28-2013, 10:16 AM
  #868
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Stéphane Leroux was just on l'Antichambre, and he said that he expects at least 2 picks from the 'Q this season, considering how strong the crop is. He said that the scouting group would have to be silly to pick no players from the 'Q.
I dread Leroux's comments during draft day, where he typically lists Quebec players taken, who are "pure laine", as opposed to just being qualified as local players.

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05-28-2013, 10:24 AM
  #869
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i know there are character issues, but without a 2nd thought...
there are NO character issues. Kid lives for the game. Probably the hardest worker on the Remparts.

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05-28-2013, 10:24 AM
  #870
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I dread Leroux's comments during draft day, where he typically lists Quebec players taken, who are "pure laine", as opposed to just being qualified as local players.
Leroux is a bigot masquerading as a hockey analyst.

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05-28-2013, 10:25 AM
  #871
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Adam Erne plays the game like a man. Body first, hits to separate and has a wicked release. Jump at the chance to draft him.

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05-28-2013, 10:26 AM
  #872
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Adam Erne plays the game like a man. Body first, hits to separate and has a wicked release. Jump at the chance to draft him.
I like Erne but still prefer Rychel as he is nastier and has better hands.

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05-28-2013, 10:39 AM
  #873
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I like Erne but still prefer Rychel as he is nastier and has better hands.
Rychel has a higher ceiling, but Erne brings it every game.

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05-28-2013, 11:02 AM
  #874
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Rychel has a higher ceiling, but Erne brings it every game.
IMO Erne will likely be a 3rd line player on a good team and Rychel will be a legitimate 2nd liner on a good team.

Their respective floors are the same but Rychel's ceiling is higher. Makes it an easy choice for me. I see a lot of Daniel Paille in Erne which is not a terrible thing but we really need someone who can play in the top 6 who has a little nastiness in his game.

Erne is a very safe pick but it is unlikely that he ever becomes a real scoring threat in the NHL.

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05-28-2013, 11:06 AM
  #875
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Well I sure hope a group of 30 players goes between the 15th and 45th pick
The operative word there is 'anywhere', smartass.

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