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HFNYR Top 10 Centers in Rangers History

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Old
05-19-2013, 12:09 PM
  #1
Crease
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HFNYR Top 10 Centers in Rangers History

This is the final list of the top centers in New York Rangers franchise history, as determined by the New York Rangers community at HFBoards:

NOTE: Please report any errors via PM to Crease


Top 10 Centers in Rangers History
RankNo.PlayerHeightWeightBornDiedTenureBirthplace
1 7 Frank Boucher 5'9 185 10/7/1901 12/12/1977 1926-1938; 1944 Ottawa, Ontario
2 11 Mark Messier 6'2 211 1/18/1961 1991-1997; 2000-2004 Edmonton, Alberta
3 19 Jean Ratelle 6'1 175 10/3/1940 1960-1975 Lac St. Jean, Quebec
4 6 Neil Colville 5'11 175 8/4/1914 12/26/1987 1935-1942; 1944-1949 Edmonton, Alberta
5 7 Phil Watson 5'11 165 4/24/1914 2/1/1991 1935-1943; 1944-1948 Montreal, Quebec
6 18 Walt Tkaczuk 6'0 185 9/29/1947 1968-1981 Emsdetten, Germany
7 10 Edgar Laprade 5'8 160 10/19/1919 1945-1955 Port Arthur, Ontario
8 7 Don Raleigh 5'11 150 6/27/1926 8/21/2012 1943-1944; 1947-1956 Kenora, Ontario
9 5 Buddy O'Connor 5'8 142 6/21/1916 8/24/1977 1947-1951 Montreal, Quebec
T-10 77 Phil Esposito 6'1 205 2/20/1942 1975-1981 Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
T-10 99 Wayne Gretzky 6'0 185 1/26/1961 1996-1999 Brantford, Ontario


Links to all of the discussion threads that went into making this list:
Round 2 Voting Results
Round 2, Vote 1 Discussion
Round 2, Vote 2 Discussion

Links to the preliminary discussion threads before voters submitted their lists:
Rules Discussion
Preliminary & General Discussion

Link to the aggregate list that formed the basis of Round 2 discussion. This data was released at the end of the project:
Round 1 Voting Results

Listed here are the individual voting records of the participants:
bernmeister
Cake or Death
Chief
Crease
Greg02
mike14
ratelleitlikeitis
Richter Scale


Last edited by Crease: 05-29-2013 at 07:52 AM.
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Old
05-19-2013, 12:33 PM
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Here are the results of Vote 1. There were 8 of a possible 8 voters in this round.

PlayerTotal1st2nd3rd4th5th6th7th8th9th10th
Frank Boucher 78 6 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Mark Messier 72 2 4 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Jean Ratelle 66 0 2 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Neil Colville 48 0 0 0 5 0 2 0 1 0 0
Phil Watson 45 0 0 0 1 5 0 2 0 0 0
Walt Tkaczuk 42 0 0 0 2 1 4 0 0 1 0
Phil Esposito 30 0 0 0 0 1 0 3 4 0 0
Buddy O'Connor 22 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 2 1 2
Don Raleigh 20 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 3 3
Clint Smith 17 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 3 3


Here are the results of Vote 2. There were 8 of a possible 8 voters in this round.

PlayerTotal6th7th8th9th10th11th12thNR
Walt Tkaczuk 53 6 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
Edgar Laprade 43 2 4 1 0 0 0 0 1
Don Raleigh 32 0 1 4 1 0 0 2 0
Buddy O'Connor 27 0 0 1 3 2 2 0 0
Wayne Gretzky 25 0 1 0 2 3 1 0 1
Phil Esposito 25 0 1 1 1 0 5 0 0
Clint Smith 14 0 0 0 0 3 0 5 0
Phil Goyette 4 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 7
Ron Duguay 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 7


Last edited by Crease: 05-28-2013 at 06:39 PM.
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Old
05-19-2013, 12:50 PM
  #3
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Sweet. Thanks again!

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05-19-2013, 05:19 PM
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In case anyone else is as dumb as I am and can't figure it out just by looking, the point values are 10 for a first place vote and 1 for a 10th place vote. You don't need to solve Linear Diophantine Equations, nor do you need to do Gaussian elimination.

._.

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05-28-2013, 06:43 PM
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We never decided what to do in the event of a points tie, so naturally there ended up being a tie between Gretzky and Esposito.

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05-28-2013, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
We never decided what to do in the event of a points tie, so naturally there ended up being a tie between Gretzky and Esposito.
Ha, of course that would happen! IMO Gretz would win the 10th spot has he had more people vote him into the top 10 (6 to 3), but as you say, we didn't have a system so it's irrelevant.

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05-28-2013, 06:53 PM
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I think it's fitting that in the end, Espo and Gretzky tied for 10th. Their achievements were very comparable.

Looking over this list, I think we got it right for the most part. Certainly, I don't think anyone's about to be making a convincing argument that someone is terribly misplaced.

It was a pleasure discussing this with all of you. I'm looking forward to the next project already

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05-28-2013, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg02 View Post
I think it's fitting that in the end, Espo and Gretzky tied for 10th. Their achievements were very comparable.

Looking over this list, I think we got it right for the most part. Certainly, I don't think anyone's about to be making a convincing argument that someone is terribly misplaced.

It was a pleasure discussing this with all of you. I'm looking forward to the next project already
Wholly agree. Looking forward to our debate of the top 10 songs of the 1950s. Would like to see Sinatra's adjusted stats.

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05-28-2013, 07:11 PM
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Espo will never get a fair shake from most Ranger fans.

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05-28-2013, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cake or Death View Post
Wholly agree. Looking forward to our debate of the top 10 songs of the 1950s. Would like to see Sinatra's adjusted stats.
Can't even see how you can have sinatra in the same discussion as Berry and Little Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis

Seriously, really enjoyed doing this and learning a lot about some old blushirts. Many thanks to all for the great info posted throughout the threads

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05-28-2013, 07:17 PM
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Can't even see how you can have sinatra in the same discussion as Berry and Little Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis
Tough to say... strong rumors those three were using performance enhancing drugs

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05-28-2013, 07:22 PM
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Bob Richards
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I've seen only one of these guys play lol.

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05-28-2013, 08:07 PM
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Well... if this doesn't sum up why the NY Rangers haven't been a historically successful franchise than nothing will. Taking nothing away from these guys, but this list vs. any other original 6 team and we've a long legacy of being weak up the middle. Especially, post 1945. Jean Ratelle and Mark Messier are the only two true #1 centers with any kind of tenure on the team. I mean, you can throw Espo in there, I guess, and sprinkle a couple of years of Gretzky but that doesn't change the fact that post WWII, we've homegrown ONE legitimate first line center that played for us for any significant length of time.

And there you have it.

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05-28-2013, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Well... if this doesn't sum up why the NY Rangers haven't been a historically successful franchise than nothing will. Taking nothing away from these guys, but this list vs. any other original 6 team and we've a long legacy of being weak up the middle. Especially, post 1945. Jean Ratelle and Mark Messier are the only two true #1 centers with any kind of tenure on the team. I mean, you can throw Espo in there, I guess, and sprinkle a couple of years of Gretzky but that doesn't change the fact that post WWII, we've homegrown ONE legitimate first line center that played for us for any significant length of time.

And there you have it.
I don't think any of us voting were overly thrilled with Gretzky in the top 10. But from our start list, there really is an absolute log jam of centers who have played only 4, 5, 6 seasons with us.

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05-28-2013, 08:48 PM
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Honestly, would've liked to have seen a healthy Ulf Nilsson play a number of more years with the Rangers and Doug Weight is another guy I would've liked to have seen spend his career here.

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05-28-2013, 09:08 PM
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Don't forget The Ridler, Mike Ridley!

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05-28-2013, 09:10 PM
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Thanks for putting this together Crease; as with everyone else on this project, I had a blast. Can't wait for the next one -- my vote would go for D-men or Goalies next.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg02 View Post
I think it's fitting that in the end, Espo and Gretzky tied for 10th. Their achievements were very comparable.

Looking over this list, I think we got it right for the most part. Certainly, I don't think anyone's about to be making a convincing argument that someone is terribly misplaced.

It was a pleasure discussing this with all of you. I'm looking forward to the next project already
I'll second this.

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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Honestly, would've liked to have seen a healthy Ulf Nilsson play a number of more years with the Rangers and Doug Weight is another guy I would've liked to have seen spend his career here.
Agreed on both counts. Actually threw Nilsson near (in?) my top 10 on the original vote for this project. Think I overvalued him a bit on the initial vote; but he was certainly a great player. Crease said he might release all of the individual votes to give people interested a sense of how things shook out and evolved as the project progressed -- might be interesting to see where others had Ulf and some of the other names not in this top 10.

The whole thing really was eye opening in just how much this organization has lacked any sort of stability in its lineup down the middle in the past several decades.

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I've seen only one of these guys play lol.
Which one? Mess I assume? Really wasn't even the same player that he once was on his second stint here.

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05-28-2013, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Richter Scale View Post
Which one? Mess I assume? Really wasn't even the same player that he once was on his second stint here.
Yup. I was real young and he was clearly not that same by that point. I was too young to really comprehend the stories of glory that he'd share about Mess.

The best Center I've seen this team have is like........Stepan lol.

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05-28-2013, 09:26 PM
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bernmeister
Rank Player
1 Frank Boucher
2 Jean Ratelle
3 Walt Tkaczuk
4 Mark Messier
5 Don Raleigh
6 Earl Ingarfield
7 Clint Smith
8 Ron Duguay
9 Ulf Nilsson
10 Phil Esposito
11 Kelly Kisio
12 Mike Rogers
13 Sergei Nemchinov


Round Rank 1 Rank 2 Rank 3 Rank 4 Rank 5 Rank 6 Rank 7 Rank 8 Rank 9 Rank 10
Vote 1 Boucher Ratelle Messier Tkaczuk Raleigh Colville Watson Esposito O'Connor Smith
Vote 2 Tkaczuk Laprade Raleigh O'Connor Smith Esposito Duguay    

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05-28-2013, 09:36 PM
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Crease
Rank Player
1 Frank Boucher
2 Mark Messier
3 Jean Ratelle
4 Neil Colville
5 Camille Henry
6 Phil Watson
7 Buddy O'Connor
8 Walt Tkaczuk
9 Edgar Laprade
10 Wayne Gretzky
11 Clint Smith
12 Phil Esposito
13 Don Raleigh
14 Phil Goyette
15 Ron Duguay
16 Peter Stemkowsi
17 Peter Nedved
18 Red Sullivan
19 Kelly Kisio
20 Sergei Nemchinov


Round Rank 1 Rank 2 Rank 3 Rank 4 Rank 5 Rank 6 Rank 7 Rank 8 Rank 9 Rank 10
Vote 1 Boucher Messer Ratelle Colville Watson Tkaczuk Esposito O'Connor Raleigh Smith
Vote 2 Tkaczuk Raleigh Laprade Gretzky O'Connor Esposito Smith   

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05-28-2013, 09:43 PM
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Cake or Death
Rank Player
1 Frank Boucher
2 Mark Messier
3 Neil Colville
4 Phil Watson
5 Jean Ratelle
6 Camille Henry
7 Buddy O'Connor
8 Wayne Gretzky
9 Walt Tkaczuk
10 Clint Smith
11 Phil Esposito
12 Don Raleigh
13 Edgar Laprade
14 Ron Duguay
15 Pete Stemkowski
16 Mark Pavelich
17 Pierre Larouche
18 Dave Creighton
19 Phil Goyette
20 Mike Rogers


Round Rank 1 Rank 2 Rank 3 Rank 4 Rank 5 Rank 6 Rank 7 Rank 8 Rank 9 Rank 10
Vote 1 Boucher Messier Ratelle Colville Watson Tkaczuk O'Connor Esposito Smith Raleigh
Vote 2 Tkaczuk Laprade Raleigh Gretzky O'Connor Esposito Smith   

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05-28-2013, 09:47 PM
  #22
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Chief
Rank Player
1 Mark Messier
2 Frank Boucher
3 Jean Ratelle
4 Neil Colville
5 Phil Esposito
6 Phil Goyette
7 Buddy O'Connor
8 Phil Watson
9 Clint Smith
10 Wayne Gretzky
11 Walt Tkaczuk
12 Camille Henry
13 Don Raleigh
14 Earl Ingarfield
15 Edgar Laprade
16 Red Sullivan
17 Mike Rogers
18 Paul Ronty
19 Ron Duguay
20 Mark Pavelich


Round Rank 1 Rank 2 Rank 3 Rank 4 Rank 5 Rank 6 Rank 7 Rank 8 Rank 9 Rank 10
Vote 1 Messier Boucher Ratelle Colville Watson Smith O'Connor Esposito Tkaczuk Raleigh
Vote 2 Laprade Esposito Tkaczuk O'Connor Smith Gretzky Raleigh   

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05-28-2013, 09:51 PM
  #23
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Greg02
Rank Player
1 Frank Boucher
2 Mark Messier
3 Jean Ratelle
4 Neil Colville
5 Walt Tkaczuk
6 Edgar Laprade
7 Camille Henry
8 Buddy O'Connor
9 Phil Watson
10 Clint Smith
11 Phil Esposito
12 Don Raleigh
13 Phil Goyette
14 Ulf Nilsson
15 Wayne Gretzky
16 Earl Ingarfield
17 Ron Duguay
18 Mark Pavelich
19 Kelly Kisio
20 Ab DeMarco


Round Rank 1 Rank 2 Rank 3 Rank 4 Rank 5 Rank 6 Rank 7 Rank 8 Rank 9 Rank 10
Vote 1 Boucher Messier Ratelle Colville Watson Tkaczuk O'Connor Esposito Smith Raleigh
Vote 2 Laprade Tkaczuk O'Connor Raleigh Gretzky Esposito Smith   

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05-28-2013, 09:55 PM
  #24
Crease
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mike14
Rank Player
1 Jean Ratelle
2 Frank Boucher
3 Mark Messier
4 Phil Esposito
5 Walt Tkaczuk
6 Phil Watson
7 Phil Goyette
8 Don Raleigh
9 Neil Colville
10 Buddy O'Connor
11 Ron Duguay
12 Edgar Laprade
13 Clint Smith
14 Wayne Gretzky
15 Peter Nedved
16 Darren Turcotte
17 Mike Rogers
18 Mark Pavelich
19 Kelly Kisio
20 Pete Stemkowski


Round Rank 1 Rank 2 Rank 3 Rank 4 Rank 5 Rank 6 Rank 7 Rank 8 Rank 9 Rank 10
Vote 1 Boucher Ratelle Messier Watson Tkaczuk Colville Esposito O'Connor Raleigh Smith
Vote 2 Tkaczuk Laprade O'Connor Gretzky Esposito Smith    

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05-28-2013, 10:00 PM
  #25
Crease
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ratelleitlikeitis
Rank Player
1 Jean Ratelle
2 Mark Messier
3 Frank Boucher
4 Walt Tkachuk
5 Buddy O'Connor
6 Phil Goyette
7 Ulf Nilsson
8 Wayne Gretzky
9 Phil Esposito
10 Mike Rogers
11 Mark Pavelich
12 Bernie Nicholls
13 Eric Lindros
14 Kelly Kisio
15 Darren Turcotte
16 Don Raleigh
17 Ron Duguay
18 Peter Stemkowski
19 Camille Henry
20 Neil Colville


Round Rank 1 Rank 2 Rank 3 Rank 4 Rank 5 Rank 6 Rank 7 Rank 8 Rank 9 Rank 10
Vote 1 Messier Boucher Ratelle Tkaczuk Esposito Raleigh Watson Colville Smith O'Connor
Vote 2 Tkaczuk Gretzky Esposito Goyette Smith O'Connor Raleigh   


Last edited by Crease: 05-29-2013 at 07:01 AM.
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