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Old
05-28-2013, 09:03 PM
  #26
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05-28-2013, 09:06 PM
  #27
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There is too much to say and too little time...

A lot of you guys with some of the crazy proposals in the last thread

Bernmeister saying other peoples proposals are crazy when he turns over 70% of the current Rangers roster for prospects. Would NHL13 even accept that kinda thing?

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05-28-2013, 09:53 PM
  #28
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Rangers have defensive defenseman but need that PP QB and big shot

Not against trading for Big Buff, would ensure a PP greater than 5.4% even with Sully running show IMO

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05-28-2013, 10:09 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
There is too much to say and too little time...

A lot of you guys with some of the crazy proposals in the last thread: Del Zotto and a throw in for Yakupov? Meanwhile, while Girardi's stock was high, and finally rebuffed on Taylor Hall (not as to value but because he's their face of the franchise) I had more credible Girardi + for Yakupov, only to get flamed here.


Those who do not learn the lesson of going 1 or 2 steps backwards to have a good enough shot at 5+ steps forwards, are dooming the club to continued suffering. We gambled and lost on Clowe, who was not a good investment, because of his footspeed, and now minus the picks we are trying to make the best of the situation.

That said, here are my latest thoughts.

We need a comprehensive strategy that moves out vets, adds younger talent that can grow as we stay ahead of being under the cap.

Repeat after me: THERE ARE NO SACRED COWS. THERE ARE NO SACRED COWS. THERE ARE NO SACRED COWS.

Ok, fire Torts, that's easy. Sullivan + Gernander as bench/assistant are fine in either order. But the real coach is our captain, Ryan Callahan.

Hank -- It will be obvious what we are doing. Offer him a base of 5 mil/yr + bonuses, which kick in with performance but also is a way of paying him most of what is not spent on getting up to the full cap. We make it open ended, only 1 year, for 7 years, he can buy out of his contract anytime for $1, but he has to give us one full year's notice.

Trades:
The AVs will not flip the 1st to us for "the 5th +". They want nothing less than McDonagh from us, or Hedman from TB, etc. They want lefties, but not Staal. They may be having second thoughts, but because they are deep at C, LD should do it.

I've come to the conclusion that the smart thing to do would be take McKinnon with the first pick overall. It is not clear if he will need the same time Tavares did, but this could be the guy, in short while, who would not only be a sniper in a pinch, but a serious 1C. Possibly better than anybody we can expect except Malkin if he comes, and adding a guy like McKinnon as a protege under him might encourage Malkin to consider us more seriously.

They don't want to throw him in, but I believe we can also pry like 8th overall Duncan Siemens with the 1st if we add another useful lefty, Del Zotto. There may be a thought to balance them not as a pair (i.e., one puck mover, one stay at home) but the thought of Siemens - McIlrath is totally kick ass.

So trade 1: McDonagh + MDZ for the 1st (McKinnon) + Siemens
[Also, if McD wants to head out to the heartland for personal reasons, COL would be closer than NY.]

Trade 2: Staal/Staal + to CAR for 5th overall + Y

Trade 3: Stepan + CAR for 5th overall to FL for 2nd overall + Z
With McK in the fold Stepan is enough to land a pick which gets Jones.
It is expected Z will obviously be nice prospects and/or high future FL pick
Tallon's gotta like a 1C and that high pick

Trade 4: Brian Boyle + Christian Thomas + Taylor Pyatt + Calle Andersson
to CBH
for Dylan Olsen, Mark McNeil, Pat Beach + Adam Clendenning + one of Rangers 3 thirds this year. Rangers may have to further add, slightly.

Olsen, a lefty shot, is listed as RD, but I expect can adjust if needed Clendenning righty shot RD. Beach is short term project, big, strong bust but cheap filler for a year. McNeil a legit first, but is coming along slowly needs seasoning.

Hawks do this cause Boyle is a nice fall back to lower 6, Thomas + Anderson are nice picks, Pyatt better filler if needed more likely a cap dump, cheap to another team for a 6th/7th. And the best of our 3rds in a deep draft is good value.

Trade 5: Girardi + and a future Ranger 2nd to TOR for future Maple Leafs 1st and Gardiner
Kinda obvious, no explanations necessary.

Trade 6: McNeil + Stralman + Eminger + Newbury to Edmonton for a lefty D prospects Oscar Klefbom (1st rounder), Martin Marincin (2nd rounder), and Martin Gernat (5th rounder) + 2nd round C Tyler Pitlick
McNeil and Klefborm are close overalll, Klef being 19th overall in 2011, and McN one ahead that year. Stralman is a solid 4, Eminger a solid 6/7, and they are righties, which are in short supply, so there is some nominal value added. Newbury adds grit.
Edmonton gets a legit 3C w2C potential available soon, 1 D who definitely makes the roster now, another who competes, a likely 4th liner who provides grit Oiler fans complain about not having.

Rangers have better upside, but unclear as to how fast these picks are here, though Klefbom + Marincin are likely for this year.

-------------

Clowe do not re-sign, Clowe of 5 years ago, ok, but this was desperate gamble, he's got jam, but losing footspeed. Most importantly, he'd cost a future 2nd. Just say no.

Richards. Make an effort -- Slats this is you --- to see if some kind of exception can be agreed to between NHLPA + league, either as to just Richards, or more realistically, to all similar scenarios.

If yes, then trade for best return.
If no, then keep as possible 4C for 1 yr or do a Redden then amnesty him.

Why not amnesty now?
I would be open to that, but unless you really use that buyout for good free agent signings, then it makes more biz sense in long run to amnesty next year and save both cap + $$ if I understand the figures correctly.

With moving all these guys who were soon due for raises, etc, we should have enough cap space to sign a couple of UFAs if we want. I say if Chicago passes on Bickell and Stralberg, sign both BUT ONLY FOR 1 YEAR. They may consider that if Rangers have shot to win, and NY offers high profile, and they can, after only next year, having shown this season was not a fluke, get really set up for a serious payday, they may consider the one year gamble for increased payout.

I would also look now at grooming Randy McNaught for the 4L RW after Asham. Just to see if he could cut the 5-6 min per night. I don't say he's got the D skills and his development has been interrupted. But he is big, hits like a truck, would do serious corner checking, drop the gloves.

Now, guess what all that gets ya!

F:
Hagelin, McKinnon Nash
Kreider Brassard Callahan
Bickel Miller Stalberg
Beach Lindberg Asham
Powe Haley Dorset

Yogan Pitlick Fast
and other prospect core (NIeves, Noreau, etc. still good)
I would also like to see Kreider a few extra shifts experimenting at C, but only on a super speed line: Hagelin, Miller Cally Stralberg as wingers.

And the D:
LD RD
Moore Jones
Gardiner Clendenning
Klefbom Olsen
Marincin Gernat
Siemens - McIlrath

G:
Lundqvist
Talbot
I think we go younger, start grooming Talbot, see what Blues want for Jake Allen, who may be #3 over there

Oh yeah, and we upgraded our future 2nd to a Maple Leaf 1st.

Only thing not nailed down is exactly what Tallon will want with the 5th overall for the 2nd overall. But obviously, we should be able to swing it!

This is like the Inception of trade proposals. Not only is it ****ing horrible, you have trades within trades.

Players are not stocks, you can't just sell and buy whatever you feel like.

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Old
05-28-2013, 10:58 PM
  #30
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Forget about this Staal to Anaheim stuff. Everyone in hockey knows about the Staals. Is this another trade that works on NHL13?

If Mark wants to go to Carolina, I suspect Sather would do exactly what Shero did last year -- accomodate him. I also assume Rutherford would do the same thing he did last year -- pay a fair price. For me that's Falk and the 6th.

Don't expect that will happen.

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05-28-2013, 11:01 PM
  #31
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anyone change their minds on trading for Boyle? Cap hit high but he would fit 2 needs, and from the playoffs can clearly still play

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Old
05-28-2013, 11:05 PM
  #32
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LIRL @ Inception Trade proposals; seriously, where do you guys come up with this stuff? It's reality, not xbox.

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05-28-2013, 11:05 PM
  #33
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or Brent Burns would be better. lower cap hit and younger

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Old
05-28-2013, 11:07 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
or Brent Burns would be better. lower cap hit and younger
I'd love to have Burns on this team but I don't think SJ trades him.

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Old
05-28-2013, 11:09 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Riverdale View Post
I'd love to have Burns on this team but I don't think SJ trades him.
prob right. they would move boyle before burns

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Old
05-28-2013, 11:10 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Forget about this Staal to Anaheim stuff. Everyone in hockey knows about the Staals. Is this another trade that works on NHL13?

If Mark wants to go to Carolina, I suspect Sather would do exactly what Shero did last year -- accomodate him. I also assume Rutherford would do the same thing he did last year -- pay a fair price. For me that's Falk and the 6th.

Don't expect that will happen.
It's actually 5th overall.

I think Tlusty/McBain/1st is fair, personally. Maybe take McBain out.

Faulk I doubt will be moved. It's more of a sideways step than anything for Carolina if they make that move.

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Old
05-28-2013, 11:11 PM
  #37
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There are some other players that San Jose would trade, but Brent Burns would not be one of them, I agree.

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Old
05-28-2013, 11:13 PM
  #38
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As for the rest of this mess my number one priority is a defenseman (preferably a righty) who can run the power play. That would make the offense half a goal a game better. Looking around the league it seems that any deal is going to have to be a value for value move which I am OK with. Fix the power play and you fix the offense.

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Old
05-28-2013, 11:15 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
It's actually 5th overall.

I think Tlusty/McBain/1st is fair, personally. Maybe take McBain out.

Faulk I doubt will be moved. It's more of a sideways step than anything for Carolina if they make that move.
I'd be fine with that. We need all 3 of those: Scoring winger, 1st rounder, and a RH O-D. This D core needs a righty that can provide offense, and we are set for years.

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Old
05-28-2013, 11:19 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Forget about this Staal to Anaheim stuff. Everyone in hockey knows about the Staals. Is this another trade that works on NHL13?

If Mark wants to go to Carolina, I suspect Sather would do exactly what Shero did last year -- accomodate him. I also assume Rutherford would do the same thing he did last year -- pay a fair price. For me that's Falk and the 6th.

Don't expect that will happen.
Justin Faulk is a better player than Marc Staal right now.

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Old
05-28-2013, 11:24 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
There is too much to say and too little time...

A lot of you guys with some of the crazy proposals in the last thread: Del Zotto and a throw in for Yakupov? Meanwhile, while Girardi's stock was high, and finally rebuffed on Taylor Hall (not as to value but because he's their face of the franchise) I had more credible Girardi + for Yakupov, only to get flamed here.


Those who do not learn the lesson of going 1 or 2 steps backwards to have a good enough shot at 5+ steps forwards, are dooming the club to continued suffering. We gambled and lost on Clowe, who was not a good investment, because of his footspeed, and now minus the picks we are trying to make the best of the situation.

That said, here are my latest thoughts.

We need a comprehensive strategy that moves out vets, adds younger talent that can grow as we stay ahead of being under the cap.

Repeat after me: THERE ARE NO SACRED COWS. THERE ARE NO SACRED COWS. THERE ARE NO SACRED COWS.

Ok, fire Torts, that's easy. Sullivan + Gernander as bench/assistant are fine in either order. But the real coach is our captain, Ryan Callahan.

Hank -- It will be obvious what we are doing. Offer him a base of 5 mil/yr + bonuses, which kick in with performance but also is a way of paying him most of what is not spent on getting up to the full cap. We make it open ended, only 1 year, for 7 years, he can buy out of his contract anytime for $1, but he has to give us one full year's notice.

Trades:
The AVs will not flip the 1st to us for "the 5th +". They want nothing less than McDonagh from us, or Hedman from TB, etc. They want lefties, but not Staal. They may be having second thoughts, but because they are deep at C, LD should do it.

I've come to the conclusion that the smart thing to do would be take McKinnon with the first pick overall. It is not clear if he will need the same time Tavares did, but this could be the guy, in short while, who would not only be a sniper in a pinch, but a serious 1C. Possibly better than anybody we can expect except Malkin if he comes, and adding a guy like McKinnon as a protege under him might encourage Malkin to consider us more seriously.

They don't want to throw him in, but I believe we can also pry like 8th overall Duncan Siemens with the 1st if we add another useful lefty, Del Zotto. There may be a thought to balance them not as a pair (i.e., one puck mover, one stay at home) but the thought of Siemens - McIlrath is totally kick ass.

So trade 1: McDonagh + MDZ for the 1st (McKinnon) + Siemens
[Also, if McD wants to head out to the heartland for personal reasons, COL would be closer than NY.]

Trade 2: Staal/Staal + to CAR for 5th overall + Y

Trade 3: Stepan + CAR for 5th overall to FL for 2nd overall + Z
With McK in the fold Stepan is enough to land a pick which gets Jones.
It is expected Z will obviously be nice prospects and/or high future FL pick
Tallon's gotta like a 1C and that high pick

Trade 4: Brian Boyle + Christian Thomas + Taylor Pyatt + Calle Andersson
to CBH
for Dylan Olsen, Mark McNeil, Pat Beach + Adam Clendenning + one of Rangers 3 thirds this year. Rangers may have to further add, slightly.

Olsen, a lefty shot, is listed as RD, but I expect can adjust if needed Clendenning righty shot RD. Beach is short term project, big, strong bust but cheap filler for a year. McNeil a legit first, but is coming along slowly needs seasoning.

Hawks do this cause Boyle is a nice fall back to lower 6, Thomas + Anderson are nice picks, Pyatt better filler if needed more likely a cap dump, cheap to another team for a 6th/7th. And the best of our 3rds in a deep draft is good value.

Trade 5: Girardi + and a future Ranger 2nd to TOR for future Maple Leafs 1st and Gardiner
Kinda obvious, no explanations necessary.

Trade 6: McNeil + Stralman + Eminger + Newbury to Edmonton for a lefty D prospects Oscar Klefbom (1st rounder), Martin Marincin (2nd rounder), and Martin Gernat (5th rounder) + 2nd round C Tyler Pitlick
McNeil and Klefborm are close overalll, Klef being 19th overall in 2011, and McN one ahead that year. Stralman is a solid 4, Eminger a solid 6/7, and they are righties, which are in short supply, so there is some nominal value added. Newbury adds grit.
Edmonton gets a legit 3C w2C potential available soon, 1 D who definitely makes the roster now, another who competes, a likely 4th liner who provides grit Oiler fans complain about not having.

Rangers have better upside, but unclear as to how fast these picks are here, though Klefbom + Marincin are likely for this year.

-------------

Clowe do not re-sign, Clowe of 5 years ago, ok, but this was desperate gamble, he's got jam, but losing footspeed. Most importantly, he'd cost a future 2nd. Just say no.

Richards. Make an effort -- Slats this is you --- to see if some kind of exception can be agreed to between NHLPA + league, either as to just Richards, or more realistically, to all similar scenarios.

If yes, then trade for best return.
If no, then keep as possible 4C for 1 yr or do a Redden then amnesty him.

Why not amnesty now?
I would be open to that, but unless you really use that buyout for good free agent signings, then it makes more biz sense in long run to amnesty next year and save both cap + $$ if I understand the figures correctly.

With moving all these guys who were soon due for raises, etc, we should have enough cap space to sign a couple of UFAs if we want. I say if Chicago passes on Bickell and Stralberg, sign both BUT ONLY FOR 1 YEAR. They may consider that if Rangers have shot to win, and NY offers high profile, and they can, after only next year, having shown this season was not a fluke, get really set up for a serious payday, they may consider the one year gamble for increased payout.

I would also look now at grooming Randy McNaught for the 4L RW after Asham. Just to see if he could cut the 5-6 min per night. I don't say he's got the D skills and his development has been interrupted. But he is big, hits like a truck, would do serious corner checking, drop the gloves.

Now, guess what all that gets ya!

F:
Hagelin, McKinnon Nash
Kreider Brassard Callahan
Bickel Miller Stalberg
Beach Lindberg Asham
Powe Haley Dorset

Yogan Pitlick Fast
and other prospect core (NIeves, Noreau, etc. still good)
I would also like to see Kreider a few extra shifts experimenting at C, but only on a super speed line: Hagelin, Miller Cally Stralberg as wingers.

And the D:
LD RD
Moore Jones
Gardiner Clendenning
Klefbom Olsen
Marincin Gernat
Siemens - McIlrath

G:
Lundqvist
Talbot
I think we go younger, start grooming Talbot, see what Blues want for Jake Allen, who may be #3 over there

Oh yeah, and we upgraded our future 2nd to a Maple Leaf 1st.

Only thing not nailed down is exactly what Tallon will want with the 5th overall for the 2nd overall. But obviously, we should be able to swing it!

I like the effort, but this isn't NHL13 where you trade for a bunch of high potential guys, sim three years, then have a stacked team.

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Old
05-28-2013, 11:28 PM
  #42
JeffMangum
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Justin Faulk is a better player than Marc Staal right now.


Every post gets better and better, I swear.

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Old
05-28-2013, 11:34 PM
  #43
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Every post gets better and better, I swear.
I suggest you watch some Hurricanes games.

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Old
05-28-2013, 11:35 PM
  #44
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I suggest you watch some Hurricanes games.
Kershaw telling people to watch games.

Priceless.

I know how good Faulk is. He's incredible. But to suggest he's better than Staal, one of the best defenders in the league, is asinine.

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05-28-2013, 11:39 PM
  #45
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Justin Faulk is a better player than Marc Staal right now.


C'mon, dude.

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05-28-2013, 11:45 PM
  #46
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no one knows how staal will. rebound or heal, but before injury he was our TOP ( sorry mcd) shutdown dman and one of the best in the league. he was great pre injury and our d went to **** after we lost him.. people are entitled to their opinions but Faulk better than staal? no way

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05-28-2013, 11:52 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Justin Faulk is a better player than Marc Staal right now.
What do you base that on?
And what's your opinion Tlusty?

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Old
05-28-2013, 11:55 PM
  #48
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Justin Faulk's EYESIGHT is better than Marc Staal's right now

Jeez guys Kersh just made a mistake

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05-29-2013, 12:00 AM
  #49
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I would rather have Staal than Faulk, but Faulk doesn't get enough love on this board. He's often treated as interchangeable with McBain, which is hilarious. He's in the same ballpark as Staal, or at least waiting at the gates.

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05-29-2013, 12:29 AM
  #50
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IF, and only if Staal finally states himself that he'd like to go to Carolina do I think that we should trade him. And if that day comes, Faulk is the only name I want to see coming back. Though the idea of Staal for Faulk and 5th overall this year is amazingly enticing.

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