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The Carey Price Discussion Thread (Part 5)

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Old
05-29-2013, 11:48 AM
  #201
Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
While Quick is a better goalie than Price and I would never argue the contrary..

2007 Calder Cup Playoffs Hamilton Bulldogs 22 45 1314 654 2.06 0.936 15 6 0 0 0 0 0.000 0 2

Price came into the AHL play-offs after his WHL career was over and completely dominated the AHL play-offs, won the Jack Butterfield trophy (Conn Smythe of the AHL) and won the Calder Cup.

Price has shown the capabilities of being a top notch goaltender, an elite goalie, it's just a matter of the right coaching, achieving consistency now as he begins to exit "young goalie" and into "prime goalie", and to find that level of intensity and calmness, that swagger he had when he turned in a Top 5 goalie performance.
So he goes from this year to having to achieve consistency, calmness and level of intensity? Isn't that an incredibly big achievement to do? Thing is, As far as the right coaching....you mean goalie coach? If so, should Carey realize that he does or does not have the perfect goalie coach for him? Is he too shy to make the Habs fire Groulx? Does the guy still go back to Kolzig for tips? Isn't that a sign that things aren't great or 2 heads are better than 1?

As far as his achievement in the AHL, nobody denies that. Some were saying that it was one of the best demonstration of talent that they have seen from such a young goalie. Yet, NHL is a different beast. Carey is a good goalie but does he has in him to be just as impressive at the NHL level? He was able to do what he did with surely no expectations whatsoever. And had the advantage that nobody had any knowledge of how he would conduct himself, didn't know too much of his strengths and weaknesses....Yet, he did succeed nonetheless. Incredibly impressive....but then the NHL is totally different. I guess that your point remains as far as if he was able to do something great, chances are he'll repeat it. Maybe. We hope. But now is the time. And no excuses anymore.

People try to compare him to Quick. Well Quick had a rough regular season didn't he? And at one point, people even though LA wouldn't make it. Strange that for a team who's way more stronger than we were ('cause people use that reason to say that this is why Quick is so succesful), if the guy doesn't play better at one point, they might not have made it. And now, the guy is stellar....and so are the Kings. So even forces in the NHL needs quite a bit of help in the net.

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05-29-2013, 12:01 PM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post

Price came into the AHL play-offs after his WHL career was over and completely dominated the AHL play-offs, won the Jack Butterfield trophy (Conn Smythe of the AHL) and won the Calder Cup.

Price has shown the capabilities of being a top notch goaltender, an elite goalie, it's just a matter of the right coaching, achieving consistency now as he begins to exit "young goalie" and into "prime goalie", and to find that level of intensity and calmness, that swagger he had when he turned in a Top 5 goalie performance.
Much like the Kings in their Cup year, the Bulldogs were an average team that clicked in the playoffs and had a great run. Price came in and dominated as well. It's just a matter of hitting the reset button on this season and Price will come in and be great for us, much like he did after Halaks departure.

The strength of the team has a lot to do with a goaltenders performance and confidence. Take a look at the Predators. Pekka Rinne is an Elite goalie, but this season his team took a nose dive and had a miserable season, which caused a decline in his play. There's no hiding the fact that Price had an bad season, but lets take a breath here before we suggest trading him to Toronto for Reimer

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05-29-2013, 12:24 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by haburger View Post
obviously you are not familiar with this thread.never saw any habs to kings d comparisons.but many were comparing price and quick.are you watching the game or what?quick is waaaay above price.gives the kings a chance to win EVERY game.dont expect carey to be that guy,but to compare the two is beyond ridiculous.
You're the one who brought up Quick, and yes I am somewhat familiar with this thread (although the stupidity and nonsense of some posters is truly mind boggling).

There is no doubt Quick is a better goalie than Price. However, looking at the regular season, Quick had an average season with a strong defensive corps, while Price had an average season with an AHL D in front of him. So I'm not sure why anyone would compare the two, or even bring it up (Quick = better goalie on much better team). I was simply pointing out that fact, although I fully understand that level headed arguments and facts are usually not welcome on this board... emotional blind hatred is usually the way to go. Like I said earlier, reading this thread is similar to watching Fox News...

and you say EVERY game? If Price pulled what Quick pulled in game 2 of the first round, he would've been beheaded in front of the Bell Centre by rioting "fans"... Quick is an elite goalie, one of the best no doubt. Yet you bring up the comparison ... Quick has been INCREDIBLE these playoffs, but to say he gave the Kings a shot at winning EVERY game during the regular season just proves you did not watch a single Kings game this year...

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05-29-2013, 12:43 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Max et Guillaume View Post
You're the one who brought up Quick, and yes I am somewhat familiar with this thread (although the stupidity and nonsense of some posters is truly mind boggling).

There is no doubt Quick is a better goalie than Price. However, looking at the regular season, Quick had an average season with a strong defensive corps, while Price had an average season with an AHL D in front of him. So I'm not sure why anyone would compare the two, or even bring it up (Quick = better goalie on much better team). I was simply pointing out that fact, although I fully understand that level headed arguments and facts are usually not welcome on this board... emotional blind hatred is usually the way to go. Like I said earlier, reading this thread is similar to watching Fox News...

and you say EVERY game? If Price pulled what Quick pulled in game 2 of the first round, he would've been beheaded in front of the Bell Centre by rioting "fans"... Quick is an elite goalie, one of the best no doubt. Yet you bring up the comparison ... Quick has been INCREDIBLE these playoffs, but to say he gave the Kings a shot at winning EVERY game during the regular season just proves you did not watch a single Kings game this year...

Ironic that you would crave balance and level headed arguments 2 sentences after making the most exaggerated hyperbolic statement of the thread.

As I have said before Price's regular seasons are not important any more, his abysmal post season record is the elephant in the room.

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05-29-2013, 01:11 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post

As I have said before Price's regular seasons are not important any more, his abysmal post season record is the elephant in the room.
This. While we have people here who rank him based on his regular season stats, anyone with sense understands that the true measuring stick is how he performs in the playoffs. I don't care about the regular season. If you suck in the playoffs (high pressure) then you are not a good goalie. Price is good based on his age and draft position. But eventually he won't get that pass.

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05-29-2013, 02:15 PM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Ironic that you would crave balance and level headed arguments 2 sentences after making the most exaggerated hyperbolic statement of the thread.

As I have said before Price's regular seasons are not important any more, his abysmal post season record is the elephant in the room.
Just so you know, the statement of "Quick has had a better defensive team in front of him than Price has in front of him" is true.

The proof? Using the ranking system mentioned here, Los Angeles has had an approximately 5 point lower ranking than Montreal on average over the past 5 seasons, meaning defensively Los Angeles was better than Montreal over this time.

Don't fault Price's PO performance because the teams in front of him aren't of SC Contender material...

This year was probably his only "bad" year of all his time in the POs as the Canadiens #1. Look how amazing our depth was this year. A sure-tell sign that our team is a SC Contender...

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05-29-2013, 02:31 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
This. While we have people here who rank him based on his regular season stats, anyone with sense understands that the true measuring stick is how he performs in the playoffs. I don't care about the regular season. If you suck in the playoffs (high pressure) then you are not a good goalie. Price is good based on his age and draft position. But eventually he won't get that pass.
So am I to get this straight that Marc-Andre Fleury, a Stanley Cup winner, that has terrible PO stats is not a good goalie?

But but but, he won a SC?

2007-08 he was too young.
2008-09 he was injured plus the team was a cluster**** in the locker room.
2010-11 he was brilliant and we got ****ing unlucky
2012-13 he played bad and so .

There's my justification of each of his PO series where he played most of the games.

Call it excuses or whatever, but it's the truth.

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05-29-2013, 02:47 PM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Just so you know, the statement of "Quick has had a better defensive team in front of him than Price has in front of him" is true.

The proof? Using the ranking system mentioned here, Los Angeles has had an approximately 5 point lower ranking than Montreal on average over the past 5 seasons, meaning defensively Los Angeles was better than Montreal over this time.

Don't fault Price's PO performance because the teams in front of him aren't of SC Contender material...

This year was probably his only "bad" year of all his time in the POs as the Canadiens #1. Look how amazing our depth was this year. A sure-tell sign that our team is a SC Contender...
Just so you know Price has been universally disappointing for a goaltender with over 300 games of experience. Enjoy this year, might be Price's last in Montreal.


Last edited by Agnostic: 05-29-2013 at 03:10 PM.
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05-29-2013, 03:01 PM
  #209
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Alright ppl take a chill pill...price is entering is prime he had some bad moments and some good moments ....how many goalie are putting back to back vezina perfomance under 25??? none...habs d aint the best . but its getting their.

price is here to stay .

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05-29-2013, 03:19 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
So am I to get this straight that Marc-Andre Fleury, a Stanley Cup winner, that has terrible PO stats is not a good goalie?

But but but, he won a SC?

2007-08 he was too young.
2008-09 he was injured plus the team was a cluster**** in the locker room.
2010-11 he was brilliant and we got ****ing unlucky
2012-13 he played bad and so .

There's my justification of each of his PO series where he played most of the games.

Call it excuses or whatever, but it's the truth.
Fleury has been terrible in the playoffs, save for a few brief moments. He's a meh goalie IMO.

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05-29-2013, 03:33 PM
  #211
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I think my only real questions to all of those that think we should get rid of Price is, who would you want instead of Price that we could realistically obtain?

I'm not saying Price is perfect, but I think he is a great option in net going forward, and can't think of any available goaltender we could acquire that would be an upgrade.

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05-29-2013, 03:49 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Jakomyte View Post
I think my only real questions to all of those that think we should get rid of Price is, who would you want instead of Price that we could realistically obtain?

I'm not saying Price is perfect, but I think he is a great option in net going forward, and can't think of any available goaltender we could acquire that would be an upgrade.
I'm not in the group that wants Price gone. What I do think is that the organization should be looking at bringing some young goalies into the organization...not because Price will stink but...we don't know what will happen? He may get injured, ask for a trade, etc. There is nothing in the organization.

Price's production can be easily replaced, but no way am I bailing on him. I still think he can be good. I'd much rather improve the team around him and see if he puts all together than to just give up on the guy. If things go south next year though....I can see him wanting out. We'll see.

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05-29-2013, 04:25 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Just so you know Price has been universally disappointing for a goaltender with over 300 games of experience. Enjoy this year, might be Price's last in Montreal.
"universally disappointing"? I think you're exaggerating this statement. He's been a great goaltender, not so much lately.

Might be his last season? I could say that about anyone on the team. Way to be so decisive there...

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05-29-2013, 05:48 PM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Ironic that you would crave balance and level headed arguments 2 sentences after making the most exaggerated hyperbolic statement of the thread.

As I have said before Price's regular seasons are not important any more, his abysmal post season record is the elephant in the room.
Statistically speaking, both goalies had average seasons... so are you saying that LA's D is no better than Montreal's? Simple yes or no...

Also, you talk about "abysmal" post season record. Are you saying that if it wasn't for Price, we would've beaten Ottawa? Also, is it safe to assume you think Lundqvist is overrated and an overall poor goalie, since he's had no real playoff success? In his first 4 playoff appearances (age 23,24,25,26), he posted the following SV%: .835, .924, .909, .908... so the Rangers must've been pretty stupid not to trade a 26 year old goalie with an "abysmal" playoff record then, eh?

For the record, back to the stupid Quick/Price comparison, I never once implied that Price was comparable to Quick. Quick is at the top of the league right now. But would I trade Price for a couple of draft picks? Holy **** people, stop smoking crack and go back to your PS3...

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05-29-2013, 05:50 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Ironic that you would crave balance and level headed arguments 2 sentences after making the most exaggerated hyperbolic statement of the thread.

As I have said before Price's regular seasons are not important any more, his abysmal post season record is the elephant in the room.
Also incredibly ironic that you use the words "most exaggerated hyperbolic statement of the thread" while making quite an incredible hyperbolic statement yourself...

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05-29-2013, 06:10 PM
  #216
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Patrick Roy was l'Antichambre....he said Price was in trouble both technically and that he didn't have the competitive edge to be a winner.

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05-29-2013, 06:24 PM
  #217
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Patrick Roy was l'Antichambre....he said Price was in trouble both technically and that he didn't have the competitive edge to be a winner.
When did you see that?

That said, regardless of what I think of Roy's comments, he has said quite a few dumb things over the years. I remember when we traded Theodore to l'avalanche he said the habs were the goalie farm team of the avalanche. I laughed back then, and it doesn't sound any better now.

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05-29-2013, 06:36 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
LOL BS. K there defensive specialist.

1) Why are the Bruins/Kings/Sharks/Penguins/Blackhawks one of the top 5 defensive teams? Don't you think their physicality has something to do with it? The way the Bruins bruise you down (especially come POs) is a good thing for defense. If you make a big hit or continuously hit the other team, you can force them into giveaways/turnovers. Anyone who watches hockey would see this.
And yet the Blackhawks were dead last in the league in the stats column... Sharks were 22nd... Even the Penguins and the Bruins barely get into the top 1/3... hmm...

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2) Takeaways are just as important as giveaways.
Then I would present a combined "stat", as opposed to just one or the other.

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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
4) I don't understand what that means but the reason why Faceoff % is a minorly emphasized statistic for defense is because if you can't win faceoffs in your own zone, you're probably going to give up a scoring opportunity or shot(s) off the draw. Make sense?
Sure does. Begs the question though: did you provide defensive zone faceoff percentage rankings, or "total"?

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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
6) There is no such thing as an official NHL statistic for odd man rushes, breakaways, outnumbered in defensive zone coverage, leaving opponents unchecked in the slot that I know of (unless somebody can post a link that has these statistics). I know i've made that kind of point in the past, with nothing to back it up. What i have now is despite allowing the 5th least amount of shots, their defensive "ranking" was still average, or very very very slightly better than average at 14th. Explain this to me? I'm puzzled.
I think everyone's at least a bit puzzled arguing an arbitrary set of factors manipulated to provide an arbitrary ranking system, and its correlation to the results of the games and the "eye test".

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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Despite having one of the top 5 best defensive "ranked" teams in front of him, Jonathan Quick's stats are very similar to Price's...weird
At what point does this ranking show me the difference between Montreal starting off the season with a healthy defense and healthy goalie but ending with injuries to both, and L.A. starting off the year without one of its top 4 defensemen and a recovering goalie but ending the year healthy? Seems to me like those were roads going in opposite directions that were bound to meet somewhere along the line; whatever the statistical particulars may be. The defensive play of the Kings' forwards compared to the Habs' is definitely an edge, though.

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05-29-2013, 06:38 PM
  #219
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While I have some new concerns about price going forward, he is still the same guy who thrived under a burning cauldron when the habs traded halak. If he can succeed in those conditions, where the slightest mis-step would have caused the fans to turn on him, then he should be strong enough mentally to get through this.

The technical problems he suffered this year should be fixable for someone of his caliber

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05-29-2013, 09:02 PM
  #220
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LOL at people comparing Price's Calder Cup to Quick's Stanley Cup!

Any success prior to the NHL means absolutely nothing!

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05-29-2013, 09:06 PM
  #221
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LOL at people comparing Price's Calder Cup to Quick's Stanley Cup!

Any success prior to the NHL means absolutely nothing!
Great lets throw you in net. You've never proven yourself a failure at the NHL level even though you've done nothing else anywhere ever.

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05-29-2013, 09:14 PM
  #222
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Great lets throw you in net. You've never proven yourself a failure at the NHL level even though you've done nothing else anywhere ever.
That's just unnecessary.

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05-29-2013, 09:15 PM
  #223
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Did you even read my post? The guy has played less than 60 regular season games, first of all. Price has played more than that in 1 season. Secondly, again, if Price is on Washington he could've probably have won more than 10 playoff games.

Price is approaching his prime, has played more games, etc. my post was valid in the sense of if Washington wanted to win right now, as I don't know how Holtby plays in an 82-game season while playing 60+ games. Based on this, and the fact that Washington is a contender, they probably would make the trade.



I didn't know that in the span of 5 months that Quick won a World Junior Gold Medal, was the World Juniors Goalie of the Tournament, won the CHL Goalie of the Year (or the NCAA equivalent in his case) and the Jack A. Butterfield Trophy as the AHL Playoffs MVP...

Seeing as Carey did do this, quite impressive for a 19 year-old, especially that last one as a rookie going into the AHL.
Do you know how many games Price played in his often coveted AHL playoff heroics?, apparently not. As far as those achievements, one conn smythe trumps them all, in the running 2 years in a row destroys it.

At the Jr's if it wasn't for Toews scoring on every shot, no one remembers this performance, Price was letting in every shot himself.

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05-29-2013, 09:20 PM
  #224
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Great lets throw you in net. You've never proven yourself a failure at the NHL level even though you've done nothing else anywhere ever.
Comparing Price to fans, an all-time low.

Oh, and by the way, at least I would have the decency of not demanding 6.5 million for proving nothing at the NHL.

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05-29-2013, 09:22 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
I didn't know that in the span of 5 months that Quick won a World Junior Gold Medal, was the World Juniors Goalie of the Tournament, won the CHL Goalie of the Year (or the NCAA equivalent in his case) and the Jack A. Butterfield Trophy as the AHL Playoffs MVP...

Seeing as Carey did do this, quite impressive for a 19 year-old, especially that last one as a rookie going into the AHL.
Thank god you wrote ESPECIALLY as far as AHL prowess 'cause everything else you mentioned, there's another goalie who also added this to his resume....and that's the great Justin Pogge.

Anyway, what you mentioned is the reason of the expectations. Not sure why people are blaming other posters for having high expectations. 'Cause then you add how he was brought up (don't respond LafleurGuy, that part is not for you...), the money he makes, who we traded to make room for him, and here are you high expectations. Then now, you can even add a goalie that was picked in the same draft much later on who has already 1 Cup and working on another one. And an enemy goalie in Rask, who has already reached a 3rd round, that Price didn't do yet. I know, teams and all. But somehow, both of those goalies are making their team better. As good as they are, they have weaknesses. Boston was about to lose in the 1st round. LA looked like a team that would probably not make the playoffs....

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