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Draft Thread Part 2: Bark to the Future

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Old
05-29-2013, 04:49 PM
  #276
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A very calm center who uses his vision well, Barkov has an excellent offensive game and good size. His very good passing and puckhandling combined with great hands and hockey sense make him a big offensive threat. He plays with high confidence and never seems to be under pressure. Barkov is a creative with a very solid overall package and the skill set to compensate for his below-average skating, making him one of the top prospects for the 2013 NHL Draft. (Matias Strozyk, 2012)


This from eliet prospects again below average skating.

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05-29-2013, 04:51 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
Sure its bleacher report I read many different sites and try to remain open minded to opinion. People are sure quick to piss on other opinions. I did not say this was my thoughts on Barkov. Far too often articles are just taken as truth when the reality is somewhere in the middle. With the 4th pick everyone has just came to love Barkov. Im not sold There are weaknesses in this guy. He is a drop off from the top 3 and Lindholm in my opinion would be a better pick at 4.

Ya know even a broken clock is right twice a day. Im more concerned with the statment about on ice skating abilities than the shoulder which is a real concern. See Gaustad, Goose has had a bad shoulder for a number of years before he got to NAshville and lost a good part of the season here.

This 4th pick is going to be a crapshoot. And none of the guys that are available at 4 are not going to be a savior in the next year or two. And if there is truth to Barkov's skating we should pass on him.
I've read reports on Forsberg saying the reason the Caps gave up on him so fast were due to his skating ... I guess we'll find out, you're right it's a crap shoot... I'd much rather go with the kid that has size & can take the abuse at the NHL level ... The Kings aren't a fast skating team but they sure as **** can think the game better than anyone else & they have size to boot ... I'd much rather go that route then let's have the fastest bunch of midgets there are on the ice for the next decade

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05-29-2013, 04:55 PM
  #278
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http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...eter-forsberg/


Heres one that compares him Peter Forsberg?????????

Hes likley not as bad as some say but I doubt hes better than FOPPA now or at his best. Im affraid Barkov is a larger Legwand sees the ice well check. playmakeing legwand used to be a check, passing skills well Leggy never exceled in that.

Bottom line if he has skating issues most NHL guys will just speed by him. Not saying hes Gill slow but that skill is something that this team needs.

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05-29-2013, 04:58 PM
  #279
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Big difference in the Kings and Preds. Kings have passing ability something we have never had. It is just too sickening to recall all the turnovers. And I agree about the smallish players too, we dump the puck in can't win the battle to retain pocession so we do not have a chance to even start any type forcheck because there so affraid to get beat defensivly.

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05-29-2013, 05:00 PM
  #280
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Teams pay professional scouts to watch and assess young players. Message boards are filled with those who, for free, rip players they've never watched.

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05-29-2013, 05:08 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Henkine View Post
Still Ovechkin, Malkin, Sedins, Sundin, O. Jokinen, Jagr, P. Forsberg, Backstrom etc, were no slouches either even though they didn't put up 2 PPG pace in pro leagues their draft years. They turned out well didn't they. Some even became better than Austin Watson. You don't necessarily have to be drafted out of the Junior leagues to become a hockey player.
I'm not doubting that i am just saying how dumb it is to think that drouin/mackinnons seasons aren't that impressive based on them playing against 17-20 year olds

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05-29-2013, 05:17 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Teams pay professional scouts to watch and assess young players. Message boards are filled with those who, for free, rip players they've never watched.
Yup or develop mancrushes on players that may or may not turn out.

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05-29-2013, 05:24 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Teams pay professional scouts to watch and assess young players. Message boards are filled with those who, for free, rip players they've never watched.
Bottom line: we would not be peddling our opinions here if we were as good as the WORST NHL quality scouts. As much as we can play armchair quarterback (to mix sports metaphors) we have to hope the Preds scouts and management make the right call. As ticket holders/paying fans/spectators we only have so much stake in this compared to them (which is their mortgages, families support, future).

Does not make the waiting any easier, though...

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05-29-2013, 05:27 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
A very calm center who uses his vision well, Barkov has an excellent offensive game and good size. His very good passing and puckhandling combined with great hands and hockey sense make him a big offensive threat. He plays with high confidence and never seems to be under pressure. Barkov is a creative with a very solid overall package and the skill set to compensate for his below-average skating, making him one of the top prospects for the 2013 NHL Draft. (Matias Strozyk, 2012)


This from eliet prospects again below average skating.
Skating can be fixed. Things like vision and hockey IQ are things that cannot be coached. I'd rather have a prospect that already has traits that come inherently rather than through coaching, and whose biggest knock is something that can be rectified as opposed to a prospect who skates like the wind but doesn't have the best vision or hockey sense.

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05-29-2013, 05:29 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...eter-forsberg/


Heres one that compares him Peter Forsberg?????????

Hes likley not as bad as some say but I doubt hes better than FOPPA now or at his best. Im affraid Barkov is a larger Legwand sees the ice well check. playmakeing legwand used to be a check, passing skills well Leggy never exceled in that.

Bottom line if he has skating issues most NHL guys will just speed by him. Not saying hes Gill slow but that skill is something that this team needs.
How many games you have seen Barkov to make such statement? None outside of WJC? Barkov had one of the best draft eligible seasons in europe ever and he is one of the youngest draftees. He isn't speed demon but he skates as quickly he needs to. He is player who is positional player and is right places in right time. He isn't a guy who races up and down on the ice he's the guy who is right place in right times.

His style of game doesen't need elite speed, he has underrated speed and there is many NHL-scouts who agrees that Barkov has underrated skating and he can skate suprisingly fast but he doesen't even have to skate at full speed all the time because he has ability to read plays and react into quick changes and move himself into right position.

His skating has improved alot in past year. He is 6'3 17 year old and weights about 225lbs according to his linemate. It's not uncommon that a young player who has growing spurths will struggle at first. I've seen major improvements in that area and there is clear signs that he has gotten more used to his large frame and results are very promising. He has the dedication and will to work on it. He was first guy at the gym today at 6am and he is injured. Tells about his passion to improve as a player and taking care of himself. I believe that Barkov can get into very good range in skating but not elite but well above average.

When we evaluate prospects and project them most of posters in hfboards doesen't know that these guy are still improving . All the NHL teams projects them longterm and project how good they will be in the future. They don't think only how good skaters they are right now but evaluates how good they potentially could be in the future. You compared Barkov to Lindholm. I agree that Lindholm is better skater. But Barkov is 1 year younger and i think that Barkov has more potential to improve his skating ability than Lindholm can improve his anymore. I don't think that Lindholm improves much in that area anymore but i see that Barkov has potential to be much better than he is now. Barkov right now is to me better player than Lindholm by decent margin but in the future when Barkov has reached his full skating potential and Lindholm who has pretty much reached his full skating potential right now the difference between these 2 are going to be even bigger in favor to Barkov. Barkov won't likely reach Lindholm at skating ability but he can be close as good when he has reached his skating potential which is basically leg strength because his skating looks good and has smooth stride but needs more power in those strides.

When you haven't seen Barkov outside of WJC or doesen't realize how special year Barkov had you shouldn't make such statements. Project how good skaters they potentially are going to be not how they skate right now because Elias Lindholm is like 40+lbs lighter and 3 inches shorter. Put up 40lbs on Lindholms back and let's see how he skates after that. Lindholm didn't have to suffer from that kind of growing spurth. They are still maturing up and Barkov has to add leg strength to get more explosiveness. He is fairly good skater already and has very underrated speed but lacks explosiveness. Barkov has superior size advantage over Lindholm, Barkov is better two-way player(Lindholm is pretty good but Barkov is something different in the defensive-zone), they are equal playmakers, Barkov is better scorer and has better shot. Lindholm brings more intensity and physicality but Barkov is to me in the next tier above Lindholm as is Nichushkin. However you guys are getting elite talent st #4. A talent which would be in the #1 talk in most of the years. To be honest if Barkov was born two weeks later he would be slamdunk #1 at this point.

My european top 5:

1. Barkov
2. Nichushkin

3. Lindholm

4. Wennberg
5. Ristolainen


Last edited by thomast: 05-29-2013 at 05:44 PM.
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Old
05-29-2013, 05:40 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Skating can be fixed.
Yes in many cases it can, but were discussing a 4 overall pick and skating should not be a question in this area of the draft. Now 15 to 20 or 2nd round you could accept. Looking over at the trade and rumor board Barkov is sparsley mention or even the 4th pick really. The prize is 1 thru 3 so the draft is not as deep as promoted or the fans have no interest other than a top 3. After going thru this season at 4 we should expect pretty good prospect and Barkov may well turn out to be better than the top 3. Even after being burned by a Russia DP must consider Nichushkin most all scouting reports have him above Barkov.


Best case DP finds one of the top 3 willing to move down to 4 and a piece or two. We should know in 30 days or so.


Last edited by TMI: 05-29-2013 at 05:49 PM. Reason: offensive to some
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05-29-2013, 05:56 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
Sure its bleacher report I read many different sites and try to remain open minded to opinion. People are sure quick to piss on other opinions. I did not say this was my thoughts on Barkov. Far too often articles are just taken as truth when the reality is somewhere in the middle. With the 4th pick everyone has just came to love Barkov. Im not sold There are weaknesses in this guy. He is a drop off from the top 3 and Lindholm in my opinion would be a better pick at 4.

Ya know even a broken clock is right twice a day. Im more concerned with the statment about on ice skating abilities than the shoulder which is a real concern. See Gaustad, Goose has had a bad shoulder for a number of years before he got to NAshville and lost a good part of the season here.

This 4th pick is going to be a crapshoot. And none of the guys that are available at 4 are not going to be a savior in the next year or two. And if there is truth to Barkov's skating we should pass on him.
I am still wanting to know why you called barkov a primmadonna??

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05-29-2013, 05:57 PM
  #288
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The analysis of his skating seems to differ depending on who you ask. For instance, there is this analysis from Hockey's Future (not the board, the actual site)

Quote:
Aleksander Barkov possesses the rare combination of size and outstanding technical skills along with an ability to quickly analyze situations. He is very mature in terms of hockey sense at an early age and has had success playing against much older players in Finland's SM-Liiga. His skating ability is still developing but is not a weakness. Does not play an abrasive game but has the size and strength to withstand the rigors of the more physical North American game.
At any rate, it seems one constant is his hockey sense and on-ice vision. When you have a kid with good size and the ability to read plays skating issues suddenly aren't as big of an issue. Even if his skating improves to average, if the guy has the ability to see the play develop he will know where to be on the ice. This is a 17 year old kid who is 6'2" and over 200lbs. Every scouting report I've read agrees on his technical skills and hockey sense. He plays center. He is exactly what this team needs, and will likely be the best player available when Poile takes the podium. I see no reason to not draft him.

Every prospect is going to have a weakness if you ask enough people. We aren't going to find anyone who is perfect. If there is the "perfect prospect" out there they will be gone before #4.

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05-29-2013, 06:07 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
Yes in many cases it can, but were discussing a 4 overall pick and skating should not be a question in this area of the draft. Now 15 to 20 or 2nd round you could accept. Looking over at the trade and rumor board Barkov is sparsley mention or even the 4th pick really. The prize is 1 thru 3 so the draft is not as deep as promoted or the fans have no interest other than a top 3. After going thru this season at 4 we should expect pretty good prospect and Barkov may well turn out to be better than the top 3. Even after being burned by a Russia DP must consider Nichushkin most all scouting reports have him above Barkov.


Best case DP finds one of the top 3 willing to move down to 4 and a piece or two. We should know in 30 days or so.


Notice how it's the Canadian players that get super hype?? Mack, jones and drouin will for sure no matter what be top three in this elite high end draft! No European could ever beat these three Canadian hockey players out!

And in Europe they are saying same thing that barkov, nichushkin should be on top three.

It's all on the scouts, which is why we have North American scouts and European scouts.

Barkov, Mack, drouin, nichushkin and jones are top five hands down, bottom line, all oozing elite lite potential, so your right, it's is a crap shoot, 1-5 is a crap shoot because odds are they could all be elite or one or two miss. You never know until down the road.

Lindholm is definitely not a chance in top five. Sorry bro.


Also,
Someone said barkov was only sure to play against NHL players this season,
Didnt nichushkin as well being in khl??

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05-29-2013, 06:25 PM
  #290
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I am still wanting to know why you called barkov a primmadonna??
It was from an article I read back in March.. Perhaps I read too much.t as ou recal that was the time Lindholm was the hot topic from where the team was in the standings. As I recall the article was from a newspaper and the implication was that Barkov was more selfish as to his scoring chances in respect to his linemates. There are many other articles I have read that promote him as the picture of a good teammate. I did find it odd when I read the article, but I recall seeing Radulov when he was at his first rookie camp and his ignoring the coaches and I thought that to be arrogant and as it turned out he was a lockerroom problem. That is why that thought stuck with me when I read about Barkov. Really none of us know more than what we have read. the YouTube clips are selectivley picked so I do not put much into that. Perhaps there is someone who watched Barkov in Finnish hockey league would know more than any of us since all we can do is read reports most of which paint a perfect picture. Is Barkov a lockerroom issue or not? I have read both sides and really don't know.

We will have no way of knowing most of the things thsat have been said about all of the top players in the draft but it will come out soon enough. From the Scouting Report site the only sure fire NHL player next year will be Jones. So everyone must come to there own conclusion and as I pointed out earlier the skating weakness is pointed out in article after article. Thats my major concern. And to ThomasT and others that support that skating can be worked on and thats true but its still something that a top 5 pick sould not have already worked out.

And for whoever pointed out the success top scorers in leagues other than the NHL we can only look at Radulov and Simon Gamach neither worked out for this organization to well.

If I had my choice DP would move up to get Mac otherwise I would like Lindholm or NICHUSHKIN, Druion would be good if we had someone that could protect him but at 5'10 185 hes a lil smallish for this team.

So yeah I guess I do read too much.

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05-29-2013, 06:34 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Notice how it's the Canadian players that get super hype?? Mack, jones and drouin will for sure no matter what be top three in this elite high end draft! No European could ever beat these three Canadian hockey players out!

And in Europe they are saying same thing that barkov, nichushkin should be on top three.

It's all on the scouts, which is why we have North American scouts and European scouts.

Barkov, Mack, drouin, nichushkin and jones are top five hands down, bottom line, all oozing elite lite potential, so your right, it's is a crap shoot, 1-5 is a crap shoot because odds are they could all be elite or one or two miss. You never know until down the road.

Lindholm is definitely not a chance in top five. Sorry bro.


Also,
Someone said barkov was only sure to play against NHL players this season,
Didnt nichushkin as well being in khl??
Nichushkin cracked on the team when the lockout was over. Ristolainen and Lehkonen played against NHLers in FEL and Wennberg played against NHLers in Allsvenskan. Barkov outplayed Mikko Koivu when they was matched against. That team also had Kevin shattenkirk, Alec Martinez and Lauri Korpikoski. Barkov was best player on ice that night. It's mostly a experience when 17 year old can play against tough competition like that but when he actually see him outplaying all of them is something special. It's a small sample i know but still there is not many 17 year old who have outplayed #1 NHL C and against 1 lineful of NHLers. He scored 2 goals in that game and was all over the ice. Saw other game where he had to play against Jussi Jokinen, Kyle Turris and Jason Demers. Once again he just dominated. Had 3 assists in that game and their team won 3-1. So Barkov has proved that he can be a huge factor against tough competition. He basically destroyed all the offensive records in FEL for draft eligible player being very late born playing majority of the season against NHL-lockout players being arguably best two-way player in the league. His season was just outstanding and people from NA can't even realize that. He isn't getting hyped like the CHL kids because he plays in europe but definetly should be up there. Nichushkin played very well against tough competition at KHL playoffs.

Barkov primadonna? Not a chance. Selfish? He is very unselfish

His linemate talks about Barkov in this podcast:

http://fb.me/2ZZx6HdvC


Last edited by thomast: 05-29-2013 at 06:39 PM.
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05-29-2013, 06:41 PM
  #292
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Thanks Thomas t, very good info.

My biggest question though is how do they decide Mack and drouin are ahead of barkov???

Barkov has the size NHL craves, he is explosive offensively, amazing defensively, great shot (wrist and slap), can play tough game, can set up or finish as well. Only thing I hear people say is his skating?! But that's improvable, and I hear it's not that bad as everyone says anyhow.

Is it the shoulder surgery why he isn't top three?!

Same with nichushkin, he has everything drouin and Mack have but he also has WAY better size than both. I thought it was khl contract why he was not top three, but now that's not a concern, I don't get how these guys are rated! Lol

I know one thing, five years from now we could look back possibly at one of the best top fives in a looooooong time. Whatta season to tank!


I remember last year people saying 'fail for nail', lol, well this year we got our choice of a nail, one of top five, all equivalent in talent if not better than nail.

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05-30-2013, 12:30 AM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
It was from an article I read back in March.. Perhaps I read too much.t as ou recal that was the time Lindholm was the hot topic from where the team was in the standings. As I recall the article was from a newspaper and the implication was that Barkov was more selfish as to his scoring chances in respect to his linemates. There are many other articles I have read that promote him as the picture of a good teammate. I did find it odd when I read the article, but I recall seeing Radulov when he was at his first rookie camp and his ignoring the coaches and I thought that to be arrogant and as it turned out he was a lockerroom problem. That is why that thought stuck with me when I read about Barkov. Really none of us know more than what we have read. the YouTube clips are selectivley picked so I do not put much into that. Perhaps there is someone who watched Barkov in Finnish hockey league would know more than any of us since all we can do is read reports most of which paint a perfect picture. Is Barkov a lockerroom issue or not? I have read both sides and really don't know.
Barkov a primadonna? What the ever-loving ****? That's pure bull and seriously one of the most ridiculous things I've EVER read here and that's really saying a lot! Don't believe everything you read. Finland is a small country and Barkov's hometown, while being one of the biggest cities here isn't exactly a metropolis. People interact with him and eventually their impressions of him spread out. If any prospect or player is a problem in the locker room, it'll be more or less public knowledge here soon enough, especially if we're talking about a high-profile player. Barkov is NOT a locker room cancer and if anything, he needs to be more selfish out there. The only problem I see him causing (among other young players) is jealousy due to his skills.

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05-30-2013, 03:28 AM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...eter-forsberg/


Heres one that compares him Peter Forsberg?????????

Hes likley not as bad as some say but I doubt hes better than FOPPA now or at his best. Im affraid Barkov is a larger Legwand sees the ice well check. playmakeing legwand used to be a check, passing skills well Leggy never exceled in that.

Bottom line if he has skating issues most NHL guys will just speed by him. Not saying hes Gill slow but that skill is something that this team needs.
Did you look at that article at all? The article was about comparing their offensive output as prospects. It was based on a study by Gabriel Desjardins about league equivalencies and age of a prospect and how these affect the offensive output in NHL.

He wasn't saying that "I think Barkov is better that Foppa at his best". He was saying "According to this study and bla bla bla.. Only Forsberg can claim to have been a better NHL prospect at his draft year" (of the Nordic prospects)

Also to those who say Barkov has skating issues. Craig Button has seen Barkov play several times during the season and he said Barkov's skating is very good. This article also has Barkov on the very good skating level though I don't know wether this is a legit source or just rubbish, but there are quotes from Finnish national league GM Jari Kurri and TSNs Craig Button. Also this article has a nice amount of Barkov's junior history as it is not covered at all in the scouting reports and such. Just try to avoid reading the headline as it is only out of "Despite the comparison to a great Finnish player by a legendary Finnish skater, Barkov told NHL.com that his idol growing up was longtime Flyer Eric Lindros"

2013-draft-eligibles-is-aleksander-barkov-the-finnish-eric-lindros/

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05-30-2013, 05:42 AM
  #295
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Rumour has it that Barkov will start full training next week.

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05-30-2013, 06:38 AM
  #296
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Rumour has it that Barkov will start full training next week.
Barkov told it to Mike Morreale. It's hardly a rumour more like fact.

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05-30-2013, 08:33 AM
  #297
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The nonsense and ******** flack towards Barkov is hilarious

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05-30-2013, 08:52 AM
  #298
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The nonsense and ******** flack towards Barkov is hilarious
Can't argue with ya there! I don't get it, we are all fans of the preds, why wouldn't we all want us to get a stud like barkov?!

Based on his skillset and the records he is smashing and his size, I would not be shocked if he ends up better than Mack or drouin.

Glad to hear he is starting full workouts! Looks like the kid is ready to go fourth overall!

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05-30-2013, 09:22 AM
  #299
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Who exactly did Barkov play against while the lockout was happening? I would be curious as to who and what "holding his own" meant. Or are we just spewing more generalities in hopes posters take it as gospel?

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05-30-2013, 09:29 AM
  #300
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Who exactly did Barkov play against while the lockout was happening? I would be curious as to who and what "holding his own" meant. Or are we just spewing more generalities in hopes posters take it as gospel?
He played head to head against Mikko Koivu and Koivu had nothing but great things to say about Barkov. He held his own against one of the better two way centers in the NHL. And I wouldn't just say held his own but supposedly outplayed Koivu.

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