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Oilers and Gagner working on extension: [UPD: Elected Arbitration]

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Old
04-10-2013, 07:10 PM
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheikyerbouti View Post
Do you seriously think the teams pay structure isn't a factor in contract discussions? Then why was Hall and Eberle's 6 million deals supposed to set a bar for the rest of the team moving forward? It goes both ways.


If Gagner had put this PPG over an 82 game season he could ask for six.


5X5=25 is very realistic. I'd trade him before signing that contract, but his agent has ammunition. He's outproducing wingers that are making more and the contract will be buying UFA years. I hope he really wants to stay an oiler or we trade him.
He is rfa. Hemsky was a pending ufa. One with a lot more history of producing at a better rate than Gagner has. That comparison is a non-starter.

Eberle could be a better comparable, but again, he has shown more consistent production (at the time of his signing) than Gagner has.

Decent Gagner comparables are Van Riemsdyk, Voracek and Perron. That means he will probably be looking for and may get somewhere between 4-4.5 mill/per on a four/five year term.

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04-10-2013, 07:28 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
He is rfa. Hemsky was a pending ufa. One with a lot more history of producing at a better rate than Gagner has. That comparison is a non-starter.

Eberle could be a better comparable, but again, he has shown more consistent production (at the time of his signing) than Gagner has.

Decent Gagner comparables are Van Riemsdyk, Voracek and Perron. That means he will probably be looking for and may get somewhere between 4-4.5 mill/per on a four/five year term.
Why because they are drafted in the same year?

Those are comparable players if you are looking at it from the Oilers point of view. Van Riems had never had as many points as Gagner while playing on an elite team and you think gagner's agent is going to ask for 250K more?


Voracek is actually a pretty fair comparison, but gagner is a center and comes with a higher draft slot. He's also played more years which could easily be argued is worth 500K.

I hope I'm wrong and you guys are right. Even 4.5X5 will be near impossible to stomach.

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04-10-2013, 07:41 PM
  #153
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I wouldn't go a cent more than 4.5 mil per on a 4 yr deal. There are still some suspect elements to his game despite his good production. He is giving up UFA years, but he'd still be 27 once that deal expires. The cap is going down to 64.3 and under that same cap we saw Tavares sign his extension (5.5 per). Smid just signed a team friendly deal, and I'd say Smid is more important than Gagner. If he wants more than 4.5, he can make it somewhere else.

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04-10-2013, 08:07 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheikyerbouti View Post
Why because they are drafted in the same year?

Those are comparable players if you are looking at it from the Oilers point of view. Van Riems had never had as many points as Gagner while playing on an elite team and you think gagner's agent is going to ask for 250K more?


Voracek is actually a pretty fair comparison, but gagner is a center and comes with a higher draft slot. He's also played more years which could easily be argued is worth 500K.

I hope I'm wrong and you guys are right. Even 4.5X5 will be near impossible to stomach.
The key is to sign a deal that is portable if need be. Anything 4.5 and over with term is going to potentially complicate any trade possibilities down the road if it comes to that.

I would be open to exploring the possibility of moving Gagner + our first round pick this year for a Mike Richards type player.

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04-10-2013, 08:09 PM
  #155
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anything over 4 million is stupid.

5 years 20 million.

anything over is overpayment.

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05-30-2013, 05:09 AM
  #156
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Can MACT get the job done

I read a good article. What is going on now. Why Samwise is not signed extension yet


http://oilersnation.com/2013/5/29/ma...ning-samwise-2

He can be 2nd line center in the contending team prennial 50-60 point producer

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05-30-2013, 07:06 AM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broilers View Post
I read a good article. What is going on now. Why Samwise is not signed extension yet


http://oilersnation.com/2013/5/29/ma...ning-samwise-2

He can be 2nd line center in the contending team prennial 50-60 point producer
A good article? Its not an article, its a blog and its somebody's opinion.

Gagner's value to the Oilers doesn't exceed 4 million a year... that is my opinion - not an article nor even a blog, but just as valuable as the blog you are directing people to (I wonder, are you the blogger attempting to increase traffic to your blogging?). I don't have charts and such, but quantitative data isn't usually worth the paper it is written on.

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05-30-2013, 09:59 AM
  #158
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You guys are going to be disappointed when Gagner signs for 4.75+ over 4-5 years. And anything under 5 is just gravy at this point...

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05-30-2013, 10:13 AM
  #159
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You know this 8 year and 6 year CBA deal thing is going to be pretty awesome in us keeping our talent.

Wonder if his agent is going to reach for the stars on this one a bit. 8 years 35 M?

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05-30-2013, 11:23 AM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_oil View Post
The Oilers can't afford to spend big money on a 2nd line center that leaves us too small up the middle and isn't a big difference maker in a game.

I say this as a compliment to him though. He is playing so well that he deserves a good contract and term but that contract and term for him just doesn't fit on this team.
He loves Edmonton, and his girlfriend (of 4 years) just got in the residency program (2 years) at the U of A.
I hope there will be Give and Take.


Sam Gagner
17th points center
top 5 PK for Centers
top 5 Pp for Centers.

Physical game;
Apples to apples
top 70 scoring centers.
one of 10 centers top 20/70 in Hits, Blocks, Takeaways.

So the centers
top 20
Points
PK
PP
scoring center top 20
Hits
Blocks
takeaways

Getzlaf 8.25M
Gagner ????????????

you look at centers with like production results they are in the 3.75-4.5M range.
hit the UFA market and it is 5.25M
2 arbitration years likely at 4M and 4 years of bought out ufa years @ 5.25M
4.75-4.875M is not unresonable.


The successful cap structure for playoff team forwards.

18M for your top 3 Forwards.
Hall 6M
Eberle 6M
Yakupov 6M

14.5M for your 4-7 forwards
Gagner 4.875M
RNH 4.875-5M
XXX 2.50M
2.25M

6.7M for final 7 forwards.

this years level of cap would add 6M for the forward group.


Last edited by oilerbear: 05-30-2013 at 11:38 AM.
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05-30-2013, 11:34 AM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
You guys are going to be disappointed when Gagner signs for 4.75+ over 4-5 years. And anything under 5 is just gravy at this point...
Sadly this is the case. There are rumblings if he goes to free agency vancouver may offer sheet him in that neighborhood.

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05-30-2013, 11:43 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by KlimasLoveChild View Post
Sadly this is the case. There are rumblings if he goes to free agency vancouver may offer sheet him in that neighborhood.
From where? That seems to be a pretty dumb move, they don't need Gagner.

I'd almost like to let them take him and see what else they have to do to get under the cap.

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05-30-2013, 11:48 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by KlimasLoveChild View Post
Sadly this is the case. There are rumblings if he goes to free agency vancouver may offer sheet him in that neighborhood.
No one is going to offer sheet him. If MacT can't negotiate a contract with him he goes to arbitration and becomes a UFA next year.

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05-30-2013, 01:31 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
From where? That seems to be a pretty dumb move, they don't need Gagner.

I'd almost like to let them take him and see what else they have to do to get under the cap.
Read it on Hockeybuzz from the canucks blogger so take it for what its worth.

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05-30-2013, 01:46 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by KlimasLoveChild View Post
Read it on Hockeybuzz from the canucks blogger so take it for what its worth.
Ian Esplen? Guy is nothing more than a fan.

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05-31-2013, 06:45 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by longtimeoilfan View Post
A good article? Its not an article, its a blog and its somebody's opinion.

Gagner's value to the Oilers doesn't exceed 4 million a year... that is my opinion - not an article nor even a blog, but just as valuable as the blog you are directing people to (I wonder, are you the blogger attempting to increase traffic to your blogging?). I don't have charts and such, but quantitative data isn't usually worth the paper it is written on.
1. I am sorry: yes it was a blog not the article
2. I am not the blogger
3. This is hockey thread you should not get personal

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05-31-2013, 08:12 AM
  #167
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Last time we signed a player based on an anomalous year in a shortened sample size, we ended up with one of the worst contracts in the league.

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05-31-2013, 12:34 PM
  #168
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I would rather trade him in a package with any of the following ( Hemsky, MP, Lander) to help the 2-3 lines. He doesn't have a consistent compete level game in and out to warrant silly cash range. I would not put a lot of stock in his numbers in a short season. A tad less then a point per game is probably 3-3.5 million range. We need at least a size and grit level improvement of the 1-3 centers on this team to move forward. Hope Mac T has gift to complete this as I don't think it will happen unless we throw stupid cash, as previously habitually done in the past to lure the elite to E town.

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05-31-2013, 01:15 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KlimasLoveChild View Post
Read it on Hockeybuzz from the canucks blogger so take it for what its worth.
That's worse than here. At least SOME people on here have credibility

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06-01-2013, 12:02 AM
  #170
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4.5 Would be a good deal imo but it's still way to much given our roster. To roll out a similar top six next year would require an elite checking line, which won't materialize in a year.


This is the bold move that has to be made. You have to part with players you like to make things happen. I like Sam but his experience, despite his age, has him primed for a big contract. In the next few years players that are remotely overpaid will be anchors. Sam returning to his historical averages carrying a 4.5 to 5 million contract is not worth the risk. Let another team justify that commitment if it's more than 4 mill.

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06-01-2013, 12:10 AM
  #171
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Oilers should let Sams new team conduct business with Gagners reps. Have to think even the slightest of overpayment could sour an opportunity he may need for this fresh start. Let him sit till well after the entry draft and see what happens. A 1/2 million overpayment per year may not seem like much to the Oilers, but to a team with a fiscally responsible management group, it could effectively ruin an opportunity to move him outta here.

Best case scenario, a team signs Gags to an offer sheet. An extra first, second and third rounder next season would help this team no doubt, for a one zone type player like Sam.


Last edited by Moneypuck: 06-01-2013 at 12:39 AM.
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06-01-2013, 12:25 AM
  #172
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If he wants a lot, honestly I'd probably cut bait.

Gagner + Hemsky

for

Dubinsky + Nikitin

Draft Lindholm or Monahan.

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06-01-2013, 12:58 AM
  #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheikyerbouti View Post
4.5 Would be a good deal imo but it's still way to much given our roster. To roll out a similar top six next year would require an elite checking line, which won't materialize in a year.


This is the bold move that has to be made. You have to part with players you like to make things happen. I like Sam but his experience, despite his age, has him primed for a big contract. In the next few years players that are remotely overpaid will be anchors. Sam returning to his historical averages carrying a 4.5 to 5 million contract is not worth the risk. Let another team justify that commitment if it's more than 4 mill.
basically all that needs to be said.

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06-01-2013, 01:04 AM
  #174
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A little off topic of his contract, but does anyone think trading Gagner to Winnipeg for Tobias Enstrom would be a good trade? I know we'd seriously be lacking a second line centre which is why I love Gagner, but we also lack a good puck moving defensemen who can play the PP. (Excluding J.Schultz) Its just a thought. Like I said , Gagner is an ideal 2nd line centre, but I also love Enstrom.

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06-01-2013, 01:33 AM
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moneypuck View Post
Oilers should let Sams new team conduct business with Gagners reps. Have to think even the slightest of overpayment could sour an opportunity he may need for this fresh start. Let him sit till well after the entry draft and see what happens. A 1/2 million overpayment per year may not seem like much to the Oilers, but to a team with a fiscally responsible management group, it could effectively ruin an opportunity to move him outta here.

Best case scenario, a team signs Gags to an offer sheet. An extra first, second and third rounder next season would help this team no doubt, for a one zone type player like Sam.
Disagree, How would the picks help us? You want Horc as 2nd line C? I am sick of trading proven NHLers for picks and prospects.

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