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Tortorella Fired Pt II: "The Search"

View Poll Results: Who do you want as the next coach of the NYR?
Lindy Ruff 32 9.12%
Dave Tippett 56 15.95%
Dallas Eakins 84 23.93%
Guy Boucher 28 7.98%
Alain Vigneault 68 19.37%
Mark Messier 23 6.55%
Larry Robinson 6 1.71%
Glen Sather (you'll likely be banned, FYI) 11 3.13%
Other (specify in the thread) 19 5.41%
Ron Wilson 6 1.71%
Marc Crawford 7 1.99%
Scott Gordon 1 0.28%
Ted Nolan 10 2.85%
Voters: 351. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-30-2013, 12:13 PM
  #951
alkurtz
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It is really impossible to know whether a coach is going to succeed in a given circumstance: it is much easier to tell when a choice to doomed to failure. Most coaches turn out somewhere in the middle.

Every coaching philosophy can succeed and every coaching philosophy can fail: its only in retrospect that a choice seems ordained or doomed. You just don't know (well, maybe with the exception of Trottier). If I recall, Torre wasn't even high on the Yankee list and only got the job when others declined (I'm a Met fan so my memories might very well be wrong). Its only with hindsight that we can say that he had the right skills in the right circumstance, with the right personality.

I've also realized, in my 50+ years as a sports fan, that the only person who can manage a team the way I want is me........and aside from being a Little League coach, that isn't going to happen.

Sather's track record here is mixed: three horrible coaches (Muckler, Low, Trottier), one coach who I liked a lot (Renney) and one (Torts) who I didn't like but got us further than we had gone in years.

I would have no problems (again having to personally accept that their coaching styles are different than mine...not that they care; plus knowing that very style and philosophy could succeed or fail) with Ruff or AV. I would have no problem with Eakins and sort of like having a young up and comer coach, Not that it factors in to it, but I have great memories of him during the 97 playoffs when we are decimated by injuries in the conference finals against the Flyers, and he was called up from the AHL and performed so well (and way over his head). As a fan, I was so proud of that team. I would be thrilled with Babcock and happy with Tippett. We don't know what happened in Tampa Bay with Boucher, but something happened between him and the players that makes me leery.

Here's who I don't want. I love Pierre. He is an unabashed and enthusiastic fan of the game at a time when most people enjoy putting the game down. I find his insights and analysis to be top notch. But I can't see him as a coach. Likewise, I love Mess (how could you not?) but I don't know if his leadership skills as a player would translate to coaching.

Look, there is no universally agreed upon choice here and a large percentage of us are not going to be happy no matter who Sather opts for (yes, I'm with most of you in believing Sather's time is come and gone but that he has this job for as long as he wants it). As long as Sather doesn't go completely off the wall here (again thinking of Trottier) almost all the "candidates" have something to offer. All could possibly do well. All could possibly fail. Whoever you hire is a gamble. Sort of like signing 30+ year old free agents......you just don't know how its going to turn out. Except for an off-the-wall choice, I'm going to be open-minded and see how the team performs next year. Training camp will certainly be interesting. And, in the last resort....the choice isn't mine.

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Old
05-30-2013, 12:15 PM
  #952
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Renney deserves credit for dealing with youth and personalities, yes - but the biggest reason Renney deserves a ton of credit is, quite simply, because the team was awful. Michal Rozsival was this team's number one defenseman! The blueline was filled with rookies or scrubs, the team had no depth.
Absolutely, those rosters were nowhere near as good as todays, and depth is still a problem and much of the roster is a yearly 'work in progress'.

Sather said it, they are trying to win a Cup every year, which will always leaves us susceptible to bad signings and reactionary moves based on 'last season'.

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05-30-2013, 12:16 PM
  #953
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shame on you then for believing this. I am by know means endorsing Sather, but the image that you and others have crafted of a bumbling fool walking up and down his office in his bathrobe, petting his cat is the epitome of scapegoat mentality. He's surrounded by hockey intelligence, and knows exactly why he fired Tortorella, he's just NOT TELLING YOU WHY! He has Gorton,

He's GM of the franchise, you aren't. you are privy to ZERO information.

We can't blame the coach for the team's performance, but we can blame the GM? BS!
Why wouldn't I believe that? The man has been working in the front office of one NHL team or another virtually uninterrupted for 23 years and has failed to succeed in any regard. The only way I could describe someone who could decide to hand out massive contracts to the likes of Redden, Gomez, Drury, Kotalik, to trade for Nash's contract, is to call that man a bumbling fool.

Again, he's one of the worst front office executives in the history of professional sports. He's nothing but a bumbling fool. I don't need to know WHY he did it. I know plenty about him, like the fact that in his 13 years running the team, the team hasn't won a damn thing. The team hasn't drafted or developed a first line forward. Not one! The team hasn't drafted or developed an elite offensive defenseman! 13 years!

And you know what, even if Dolan won't fire him, Sather should just resign. If he cared about this franchise or its fans, he would have done that a while ago, because obviously, going off of his words that the goal is to win championships, he clearly doesn't deserve to keep his job, since he's never won the championship, despite more opportunities than almost any other man in his position gets. Have a little respect for the fanbase and resign. Leave. Get lost. What, he doesn't have enough money?

But no, because he's not interested in winning or satisfying the fans that pay absurd prices and live and die with this team.

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05-30-2013, 12:18 PM
  #954
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so now the Nash trade was bad? 40/40 over a full season is bad? interesting, everyone else on the Rangers must really suck other than Stepan then

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05-30-2013, 12:22 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Renney deserves credit for dealing with youth and personalities, yes - but the biggest reason Renney deserves a ton of credit is, quite simply, because the team was awful. Michal Rozsival was this team's number one defenseman! The blueline was filled with rookies or scrubs, the team had no depth.
those teams out of the lockout had 2 4th lines and 2 avg to above avg dman. renney got far more out of his teams than any coach ive seen coach the rangers.

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Old
05-30-2013, 12:22 PM
  #956
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I think the frustrations that various players MIGHT BE voicing are probably more along the lines of what a lot of us fans are complaining about: blocking shots, collapsing down low, letting the game come to them, etc.
You mean the very things that got a team that most experts picked to finish 8th all the way to the conference finals? The things that are a part of most playoff games? Playoff games, more often than not, are defensive.

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05-30-2013, 12:22 PM
  #957
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Then we keep Sullivan. He can't coach defense.
He can. He didn't have a heck of a lot to work with in TB on the back end. But agree Sullivan has been very good to our D. I want a coach and two assistants, with the HC focusing on everything but the other two working closely with special teams and the defense.

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Old
05-30-2013, 12:23 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Carlyle was his pal.

Babcock's junior career was 7 seasons, 3 very good ones, 4 losing seasons.
Babcock went to two WHL finals. Those junior teams are up and down. They lose players. They gain players.

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05-30-2013, 12:23 PM
  #959
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Renney deserves credit for dealing with youth and personalities, yes - but the biggest reason Renney deserves a ton of credit is, quite simply, because the team was awful. Michal Rozsival was this team's number one defenseman! The blueline was filled with rookies or scrubs, the team had no depth.
The team was awful and standards were low but the he did manage to get them into the playoffs (as I recall they were first in the Atlantic for a fair bit of the season). He also restored a sense of pride in being a Ranger.

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Old
05-30-2013, 12:24 PM
  #960
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pitts won a cup when he was an assistant there, and if you listen to the guy talk(it's hard, i know)-- he's extremely intelligent when it comes to hockey. he's creepy as hell, but the guy knows the game. we went from the "motivator" in torts and it wore down-- now we need a strategist to fix the system. i don't think guys would have a problem listening to him because he's such a smart dude...and seems like he'd respect the players... maybe not their personal space but who knows-- it'd either be excellent or awful.

i don't like the guy on a personal level and i think a lot of people would lose respect for us if we hired him, but he has the hockey IQ that i feel we need to go forward to build a system around lundqvist.
I can appreciate the fact that people are trying to figure this out, I just don't think there is much to ponder. McGuire would be a terrible choice. Terrible. There are far better options available.

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Old
05-30-2013, 12:24 PM
  #961
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The team was awful and standards were low but the he did manage to get them into the playoffs (as I recall they were first in the Atlantic for a fair bit of the season). He also restored a sense of pride in being a Ranger.
Yep. I like Tom Renney, liked him a lot. He wasn't the problem; his boss wasting years on that going nowhere roster was the issue.

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05-30-2013, 12:26 PM
  #962
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Babcock went to two WHL finals. Those junior teams are up and down. They lose players. They gain players.
Yeah, that was kind of my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The team was awful and standards were low but the he did manage to get them into the playoffs (as I recall they were first in the Atlantic for a fair bit of the season). He also restored a sense of pride in being a Ranger.
I guess some were too young to remember the years before Renney. Try watching some of THOSE games, wow, just as bad as it gets.

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05-30-2013, 12:27 PM
  #963
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Our good defense is a result of how they've been taught in the minors (it's the one thing we do well bottom up). There's a specific style our defense plays, you can see it specifically in how Staal/Mac/Girardi play, and they've played that style since the day they came up. I think Sully has very little to do with that. Say goodbye to that meathead too.

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05-30-2013, 12:31 PM
  #964
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exactly what D or G did Boucher have to work with again? a mcd, girardi, staal, moore, lundqvist?

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05-30-2013, 12:31 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Good post TB!

The only thing I would add is that using Sather's own standard and definition of success, his tenure has not been a success. He said yesterday that anything short of playing in the SCF is not a success.
Thanks, Singin'. You were not voted as my sidekick for nothing (yeah, it was THAT long ago)


People forget Mucker. Lowe. Checkmates. Lindros/Bure/Carter. The Tominator. Brent friggin Fedyk. Or how Jagr ran the team. This coach. That coach. Heck, even Renney. And all we did was scream around here for a tough guy coach, that would hold everyone accountable. For a fair coach, who would let the kids play. The amount of youngsters in important positions has been amplified by Torts. And the accountability is arguably the best in the league. They played as a team and sacrificed for each other.

As for Sather, he should have been fired a long, long time ago. And you are right. But his standard, he has been a complete failure in NY. I do not care what he did in Edmonton. In NY, he has been a disaster. If winning the Cup is the sole way of success, then every coach should be fired every year.

Oh, and Lundqvist? Let's remember that he was a Christer Rockstrom pick. A Euro superscout whom Sather fired, I believe. Henke was drafted before Sather got here I think.

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05-30-2013, 12:32 PM
  #966
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I guess some were too young to remember the years before Renney. Try watching some of THOSE games, wow, just as bad as it gets.
And the mercenary culture.

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05-30-2013, 12:34 PM
  #967
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Thanks, Singin'. You were not voted as my sidekick for nothing (yeah, it was THAT long ago)
Wow! How many people here get that reference?

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05-30-2013, 12:34 PM
  #968
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I personally think Sullivan has done a fantastic job with our defense. The only reason why I would advocate keeping him.
really? are you still living in the last season? what did you see this season that tells you he was fantastic with our defense

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05-30-2013, 12:36 PM
  #969
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
exactly what D or G did Boucher have to work with again? a mcd, girardi, staal, moore, lundqvist?
He had a pathetic defense...Anyways Guy looks like a bad guy from one of those Die Hard films.


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05-30-2013, 12:38 PM
  #970
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Wow! How many people here get that reference?
I've been around you blowhards for 15 years, I don't remember that reference. 15 years is a long time

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05-30-2013, 12:38 PM
  #971
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Francesa mentioned Tippett as one of the names he has heard. Messier will be part of the discussion. Its a major commitment. Its not a scouting job where he watches a handful of games every month or coaching a pee-wee hockey team.

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05-30-2013, 12:39 PM
  #972
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He had a pathetic defense...Anyways Guy looks like a bad guy from one of those Die Hard films.

thats my point his D and goalie was ****. I wouldn't discount him because he can't teach D, he had no D

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05-30-2013, 12:40 PM
  #973
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Our good defense is a result of how they've been taught in the minors (it's the one thing we do well bottom up). There's a specific style our defense plays, you can see it specifically in how Staal/Mac/Girardi play, and they've played that style since the day they came up. I think Sully has very little to do with that. Say goodbye to that meathead too.
Sullivan hate is misplaced.

Staal who played a total of ZERO regular season games in Hartford (12 playoff games).

Look at the development of a player like Stralman (a player the Devils didn't even want) as an example.

I'm no huge fan of Tortorella, but this meme that the Rangers were run by clowns/monkeys/*insert other nonsense descriptor is BS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
...And all we did was scream around here for a tough guy coach, that would hold everyone accountable. For a fair coach, who would let the kids play. The amount of youngsters in important positions has been amplified by Torts. And the accountability is arguably the best in the league. They played as a team and sacrificed for each other...
Thank you. Can't wait to hear the same tired posters calling for the head of the new coach.


Last edited by frozenrubber: 05-30-2013 at 12:46 PM.
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05-30-2013, 12:40 PM
  #974
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When Burke fired Ron Wilson in 11-12,why did he hire Carlyle instead of Eakins?
I don't know the answer to this question, but found this article from January:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/...e_feschuk.html

Quote:
When the club was looking for a coach to replace Ron Wilson in the grim days when last season transformed itself into a lost season, NHL sources say Nonis went to bat for Dallas Eakins, then and now the coach of the AHL Marlies. Nonis and other front-office executives were of the belief that Eakins is everything a modern-era coach should be; progressive but hard-nosed, communicative with players but never friends with them. Burke, of course, insisted on his old friend Randy Carlyle.

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05-30-2013, 12:40 PM
  #975
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Francesa mentioned Tippett as one of the names he has heard. Messier will be part of the discussion. Its a major commitment. Its not a scouting job where he watches a handful of games every month or coaching a pee-wee hockey team.
That's why I don't think it'll be Mess. He'd have to decide in a month to change his whole life. His young kids are still really young no? Might want to retain his status as 'family man'.

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