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2013 NHL Draft Talk Part 4: Flyers own the 11th overall pick

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Old
05-29-2013, 01:18 PM
  #926
BernieParent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
I agree as well. I nrelation to that, this team lacks players that hit. Aside from Simmonds, and the Schenn brothers, we have no one that throws their weight around on a consistent basis. With Minny's cap problems they may have to move Clutterbuck, and if so, Homer should definitely inquire about him. He's the perfect 3rd liner, that can also kill penalties and is always at the top of the league in hits. He'll be an RFA this summer and was making $1.4m
I think this case is being overstated. Beyond Simmonds and the Schenns, the Flyers have a number of physical players: Hartnell, Rinaldo, Talbot, Rosehill (when dressed), Grossmann, the good Coburn, and McGinn (if he cracks the roster). Neither Giroux nor Voracek shy away from physical play, Read doesn't stand out either way, and Couturier will get stronger as he fills out.

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05-29-2013, 01:58 PM
  #927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
I think this case is being overstated. Beyond Simmonds and the Schenns, the Flyers have a number of physical players: Hartnell, Rinaldo, Talbot, Rosehill (when dressed), Grossmann, the good Coburn, and McGinn (if he cracks the roster). Neither Giroux nor Voracek shy away from physical play, Read doesn't stand out either way, and Couturier will get stronger as he fills out.
I forgot about Rinaldo, but I disagree. Hartnell is not physical enough. He throws the odd check, but ends up on the ice afterwards. Talbot? no, not really. He may be fiesty, but he is not overly physical. Rosehill is not a regular. Grossmann can be, but the guy is injured all the time so that hampers his physicality. Good Coburn...we hardly ever see him. McGinn isnt even on the roster.

Giroux and Voracek may not shy away from physical play, but you hardly ever see them throw body checks.

Like I said, this team lacks players that consistantly throw their weight around. Having 2-3 doing it, isnt going to cut it, especially in the playoffs.

Getting rid of players like Briere is a step in the right direction, depending on the type of player we bring in to replace him

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05-29-2013, 05:41 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
Getting rid of players like Briere is a step in the right direction, depending on the type of player we bring in to replace him
I always admired Briere's moxie but the guy was an instant mismatch against the Flyers evey time that he stepped on the ice. The only way to cover for him was to have a monster physical scoring machine on his wing and the Flyers didn't have that for him. Holmgren is correct in that the Flyers have to get bigger up front.

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05-29-2013, 09:38 PM
  #929
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Of the five teams remaining in the playoffs, how many have predominantly big, bruising hitters? Homogeneous line-ups are easily exploitable. You needs size, speed, and puck talent. You can't be a bunch of smurfs (Canadiens) or all giants.

The best player on this team is 5'11".

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05-30-2013, 02:27 AM
  #930
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Of the five teams remaining in the playoffs, how many have predominantly big, bruising hitters? Homogeneous line-ups are easily exploitable. You needs size, speed, and puck talent. You can't be a bunch of smurfs (Canadiens) or all giants.

The best player on this team is 5'11".
The size of your best player is irrelevant if you have the right mix of guys around them.

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05-30-2013, 09:20 AM
  #931
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
The best player on this team is 5'11".
The best player on the Bruins is 6'9". What's your point? Nobody said your best player needs to be running people over.

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05-30-2013, 10:32 AM
  #932
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Originally Posted by StoneHands View Post
The best player on the Bruins is 6'9". What's your point? Nobody said your best player needs to be running people over.
That seems to be the mentality of some on here. I get that you need size in the lineup. The problem is that do you sacrifice skill for size? Its finding that combination that is difficult. Personally, I think the Flyers have enough size on the wings. The problem that I find is that the guys with size try to play tho pretty. They need to change the mentality on the club and start using that size to their advantage.

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05-30-2013, 10:46 AM
  #933
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
That seems to be the mentality of some on here. I get that you need size in the lineup. The problem is that do you sacrifice skill for size? Its finding that combination that is difficult. Personally, I think the Flyers have enough size on the wings. The problem that I find is that the guys with size try to play tho pretty. They need to change the mentality on the club and start using that size to their advantage.
Simmonds and Hartnell both use their size very well along the boards. Simmonds might be the best player in the league when it comes to setting up in front of the net. Hartnell's probably the most accurate shooter on this roster so you can't always have him setting up in the dirty areas.

Size is overrated at times but if you can get a guy like Hartnell, Simmonds, Lucic etc. who have the talent to go along with the size it makes them much more enticing.

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05-30-2013, 10:58 AM
  #934
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http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?p...5#.UadoFlW9LCR

Here's an article from Bill Meltzler about drafting defensemen in the first round.

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05-30-2013, 12:46 PM
  #935
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Simmonds and Hartnell both use their size very well along the boards. Simmonds might be the best player in the league when it comes to setting up in front of the net. Hartnell's probably the most accurate shooter on this roster so you can't always have him setting up in the dirty areas.

Size is overrated at times but if you can get a guy like Hartnell, Simmonds, Lucic etc. who have the talent to go along with the size it makes them much more enticing.
I don't think this is a particularly high bar being set, the Flyers don't really have that guy who is a goal threat from the top of the circle. Sure guys like Hartnell, Read, and Giroux can score from there but despite the depth of our forwards there isn't really that guy who is a natural goal scorer.

I don't think size is really overrated, because like speed it's something that is either there or it isn't. Size on the wings is hardly a weakness for the Flyers, but with how their offense is insistent upon winning board battles and creating scoring opportunities off of that, adding more size to the wings is never going to be a bad idea.

Personally I would prefer them to add a natural goal scorer (if possible) and change up the offense a bit rather than grab another Simmonds type player who specializes in garbage goals and continue to try and work the boards.

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05-30-2013, 01:43 PM
  #936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?p...5#.UadoFlW9LCR

Here's an article from Bill Meltzler about drafting defensemen in the first round.
I did a list of NHL all-stars since 2000 and added EOS first and second team all-stars and recent Norris finalist together to see where they were drafted. (Note there are a few dubious names included such as Modry and Buzek who shockingly actually were all-stars).

Name -------- Round Selection
Jovanovski 1 1
Hamrlik 1 1
Pronger 1 2
Redden 1 2
Doughty 1 2
Bouwmeester 1 3
Niedermayer 1 3
Pietrangelo 1 4
Stevens 1 5
Brewer 1 5
Housley 1 6
Komisarek 1 7
Bourque 1 8
Hatcher 1 8
Leetch 1 9
Gonchar 1 14
MacInnis 1 15
Numminen 2 29
Ozolinsh 2 30
Svoboda 2 35
Niinimaa 2 36
Desjardin 2 38
Chelios 2 40
McCabe 2 40
P.K.Subban 2 43
Schneider 3 44
Norstrom 2 48
Poti 3 59
Buzek 3 63
Blake 4 70
Souray 3 71
Zhitnik 4 81
Zubov 5 85
Ragnarsson 5 99
Aucoin 5 117
Visnovsky 4 118
Yushkevich 6 122
Markov 6 162
Robidas 7 164
Kubina 7 179
Modry 9 179
Kuba 8 192
Kaberle 8 204
Streit 9 262
Boynton 1 9 - 21 (drafted twice)
Rafalski Not Drafted
Boyle Not Drafted

Summary:

9th overall or higher -- 32%

Other 1rst Rnd -- 6%

2nd Rnd -- 17%
3rd Rnd + -- 40% (includes two undrafted)

Basically unless you are drafting in the top 10, it is a crap shoot.

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05-30-2013, 02:18 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
The size of your best player is irrelevant if you have the right mix of guys around them.
Thank you for making my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneHands
The best player on the Bruins is 6'9". What's your point? Nobody said your best player needs to be running people over.
My point is that if Giroux can lead this team and wear the C, there's much to be said about having a balance of size, speed and skill.

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05-30-2013, 06:55 PM
  #938
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So as some were talking about Zykov due to the Lamarche and Straka signings (them being on the same team) felt I post some videos I found.



Also a good read on him:

http://thehockeywriters.com/valentin...spect-profile/

Seems to be a bit of a project player. Most likely not a day 1 player which I am 100% OK with. No reason to keep rushing every player we draft in the 1st.

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05-30-2013, 07:35 PM
  #939
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I wouldn't mind Zykov at the 11th spot. It would be a little off the board going by ISS and CSS lists but not too drastic. I honestly like him better than most of the forwards slotted to go around our pick.

Off topic but his English is pretty decent for just learning it earlier this year.

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05-30-2013, 07:46 PM
  #940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
I did a list of NHL all-stars since 2000 and added EOS first and second team all-stars and recent Norris finalist together to see where they were drafted. (Note there are a few dubious names included such as Modry and Buzek who shockingly actually were all-stars).

Name -------- Round Selection
Jovanovski 1 1
Hamrlik 1 1
Pronger 1 2
Redden 1 2
Doughty 1 2
Bouwmeester 1 3
Niedermayer 1 3
Pietrangelo 1 4
Stevens 1 5
Brewer 1 5
Housley 1 6
Komisarek 1 7
Bourque 1 8
Hatcher 1 8
Leetch 1 9
Gonchar 1 14
MacInnis 1 15
Numminen 2 29
Ozolinsh 2 30
Svoboda 2 35
Niinimaa 2 36
Desjardin 2 38
Chelios 2 40
McCabe 2 40
P.K.Subban 2 43
Schneider 3 44
Norstrom 2 48
Poti 3 59
Buzek 3 63
Blake 4 70
Souray 3 71
Zhitnik 4 81
Zubov 5 85
Ragnarsson 5 99
Aucoin 5 117
Visnovsky 4 118
Yushkevich 6 122
Markov 6 162
Robidas 7 164
Kubina 7 179
Modry 9 179
Kuba 8 192
Kaberle 8 204
Streit 9 262
Boynton 1 9 - 21 (drafted twice)
Rafalski Not Drafted
Boyle Not Drafted

Summary:

9th overall or higher -- 32%

Other 1rst Rnd -- 6%

2nd Rnd -- 17%
3rd Rnd + -- 40% (includes two undrafted)

Basically unless you are drafting in the top 10, it is a crap shoot.
You're missing Chara (3rd round) and Weber (2nd round). Weber was a first team all-star in 2011 and 2012. Chara won the Norris trophy in 2009. He was first team all-star in 2004 and 2009 and a second team all-star in 2006, 2008, and 2011.

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05-30-2013, 07:54 PM
  #941
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If you take a look at the defensemen taken in the top eleven slots of the draft from 2009 on every one has been in the NHL and contributing except for one, Dylan McIrath(10-10).
2009:-Victor Hedman-2; OEL-6; Jarred Cowen-9; Ryan Ellis-11
2010-Erik Gudbranson-3
2011-Adam Larsson-4; Douig Hamilton-9; Jonas Brodin-10
The fact is that defensemen taken early are making the grade today. The scouting in recent years has improved greatly. If there is a defenseman on the Flyers board at #11 and they take him, he should be a player for them.

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05-30-2013, 08:35 PM
  #942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolex View Post
If you take a look at the defensemen taken in the top eleven slots of the draft from 2009 on every one has been in the NHL and contributing except for one, Dylan McIrath(10-10).
2009:-Victor Hedman-2; OEL-6; Jarred Cowen-9; Ryan Ellis-11
2010-Erik Gudbranson-3
2011-Adam Larsson-4; Douig Hamilton-9; Jonas Brodin-10
The fact is that defensemen taken early are making the grade today. The scouting in recent years has improved greatly. If there is a defenseman on the Flyers board at #11 and they take him, he should be a player for them.
The defensemen taken in the top half of the first round in 2008 aren't doing too badly either.

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05-30-2013, 09:35 PM
  #943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
So as some were talking about Zykov due to the Lamarche and Straka signings (them being on the same team) felt I post some videos I found.



Also a good read on him:

http://thehockeywriters.com/valentin...spect-profile/

Seems to be a bit of a project player. Most likely not a day 1 player which I am 100% OK with. No reason to keep rushing every player we draft in the 1st.
I don't get how they say his skating needs work. He looks plenty fine out there. On top of it, I'm impressed at how he's always around the puck in the offensive zone. And, if anyone saw that goal he scored from the Subway series that was a goal scorer's goal. That snap shot was an NHL caliber snap shot that goal scorer's score with.

As much as I hope the Flyers don't draft a forward, if they do, I'd have no problems with Zykov being that guy. I don't know why, but I watch him and he's got a very Mark Recchi-like game about him. He just goes out, gets the job done and does so in quiet manner, much like Recchi did throughout most of his career.

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05-30-2013, 10:17 PM
  #944
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Thank you for making my point.
I was agreeing with you. Merely reiterating.

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05-30-2013, 10:38 PM
  #945
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I was agreeing with you. Merely reiterating.
I then award myself a D for reading comprehension.

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05-30-2013, 11:36 PM
  #946
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Originally Posted by Rolex View Post
If you take a look at the defensemen taken in the top eleven slots of the draft from 2009 on every one has been in the NHL and contributing except for one, Dylan McIrath(10-10).
2009:-Victor Hedman-2; OEL-6; Jarred Cowen-9; Ryan Ellis-11
2010-Erik Gudbranson-3
2011-Adam Larsson-4; Douig Hamilton-9; Jonas Brodin-10
The fact is that defensemen taken early are making the grade today. The scouting in recent years has improved greatly. If there is a defenseman on the Flyers board at #11 and they take him, he should be a player for them.
I am all in favor of a defenseman as the pick at #11.
It is time to refurbish this defense, they retooled the offense.
It is time to catchup with the better defensive teams in the league
by drafting top defensemen.

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05-31-2013, 04:57 PM
  #947
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Seems Nichushkin did terrible in the fitness tests judging by his statements in the 1 on 1

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05-31-2013, 06:24 PM
  #948
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Falls to 11.

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Old
05-31-2013, 11:32 PM
  #949
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Nichushkin told reporters at the combine that his KHL contract was terminated and he wants to play in the NHL next year. If he doesn't make an NHL roster next year though he will be going back to Russia, he has no interest in playing in the lower level NA leagues.


Last edited by LegionOfDoom91: 06-01-2013 at 12:36 AM.
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06-01-2013, 12:34 AM
  #950
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Kind of hoping we draft a forward if Nurse or Risto go before 11, then pick up a d-man in the second round. Looks like there's a lot of decent defensemen in this draft, so hopefully someone falls.

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