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Amnesty Volchenkov or Salvador?

View Poll Results: Which Player do you Buyout?
Anton Volchenkov 108 59.67%
Bryce Salvador 73 40.33%
Voters: 181. You may not vote on this poll

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05-30-2013, 12:30 PM
  #101
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We can't sign any RFA's?
Next to impossible. We can't afford the compensation.

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05-30-2013, 12:35 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by MichaelJ View Post
We can't sign any RFA's?
(1) How often do you see RFAs signed then actually switch teams?
(2) We don't have a first round pick, so the most we could sign a player for is something like $3.5M/year.
(3) Do you want to make our own RFAs free game?

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05-30-2013, 12:41 PM
  #103
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Next to impossible. We can't afford the compensation.
I disagree. Given this team's "ability" in recent years to draft and develop talent I would happily surrender picks to bring in a player we know can play in the NHL.

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05-30-2013, 12:48 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
(1) How often do you see RFAs signed then actually switch teams?
(2) We don't have a first round pick, so the most we could sign a player for is something like $3.5M/year.
(3) Do you want to make our own RFAs free game?
Let's say the Devils fail to sign an RFA. I'd still take the chance on bringing in someone cheaper than Volchenkov or Salvador to free up cap space. I really don't think the Devils can do much worse, this is a lost $7M+. I'm willing to bet the team can add two D who can produce the same for a total of 2-2.5 M given what's out there.

As far as doing better, the Devils have the assets to trade for at least 1 D (#9, Gelinas, Urbom, Fayne, Tedenby, Boucher, Josefson, Matteau, etc.) and I don't see why they can't overpay a bit for an RFA like Zach Bogosian. Who wants to play in Winnipeg? The Jets think they're going to sign him for MDZ money, so go over that and see if they have the nerve to match it.

As far as compensation, they can't bump the 1st from 2015?

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05-30-2013, 12:51 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by MichaelJ View Post
I disagree. Given this team's "ability" in recent years to draft and develop talent I would happily surrender picks to bring in a player we know can play in the NHL.
No you don't understand. We literally can't afford the compensation.

Any team that loses an RFA to a cap hit above $3,364,392 is entitled to a first round pick (in addition to other picks.) We don't have a first rounder to offer because it has to be forfeited.

Anything below that, and the other team likely matches the offer sheet, or the player is not worth the 2nd/3rd round compensation and we're screwing ourselves, especially considering we already don't have a 1st, 4th, or 7th rounder in 2014.

Plus only 9 offer sheets have been signed since 1998, only one of which saw the player switch teams (Penner, 2008.) That's something that HFBoards ALWAYS forgets around this time of year, that offer sheets are not common practice in the NHL.

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05-30-2013, 01:02 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
No you don't understand. We literally can't afford the compensation.

Any team that loses an RFA to a cap hit above $3,364,392 is entitled to a first round pick (in addition to other picks.) We don't have a first rounder to offer because it has to be forfeited.

Anything below that, and the other team likely matches the offer sheet, or the player is not worth the 2nd/3rd round compensation and we're screwing ourselves, especially considering we already don't have a 1st, 4th, or 7th rounder in 2014.

Plus only 9 offer sheets have been signed since 1998, only one of which saw the player switch teams (Penner, 2008.) That's something that HFBoards ALWAYS forgets around this time of year, that offer sheets are not common practice in the NHL.
I apologize, my mistake. Thank you for correcting me.

It still burns to waste $7M of cap space on two D who aren't worth it. If this team expects to win now or soon, they're going to have to find a way to move on from these two quickly. The idea that the wave of prospects is going to help is foolish, you never see all prospects become what 'they should'. Of them, I see Larsson, Merrill, and Severson having the best who at becoming NHL players. In a couple of years I'd expect the D to line up as:

D1-D2
Merrill-Larsson
D5-Severson
D-7

D5 and D7 can be scrapheap players but 1 and 2 will have to come from outside the organization. That's not to say that some of these players won't be better, it's just dangerous to bank on it happening. If the Devils will need to fill the top 2 from the outside, they're going to need that cap space.

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05-30-2013, 01:31 PM
  #107
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Why does it burn to waste cap space we couldn't possibly use anyway? And two years from now Andy Greene and Mark Fayne could still easily be around.

Right now the team is hurting for real cash a lot more than it is for cap space.

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05-30-2013, 08:37 PM
  #108
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Well Robyn Regehr was signed for two years today, and he was an AWFUL AWFUL defenseman on Buffalo and is getting carried by (AKA dragging down) Drew Doughty currently.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that some GMs might value Volchenkov pretty highly, but I think that also probably means Lou values him pretty highly. I don't think he gets bought out this season unless the diminishing cap becomes a serious issue, and Lou's got more than enough cap to work with unless we get lucky and there's a sign or trade for a top-6 forward.

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05-30-2013, 11:23 PM
  #109
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I say Salvador... While Volch has never been outstanding here, consider that he broke his ankle in the KHL before the lockout. In my opinion that will slow you down and could take additional time to fully recover and a long offseason could help. I am in a huge minority, but maybe he will have a bounce back year. He's suited up for just 166 games over 3 seasons, I know this was a shortened one, but I feel we should wait to see how he is at training camp.

If we were to buy him out I have an awful feeling that Philly may come knocking on his door. While that may seem like a good thing, because we get to play against him, but at the same time it would be devastating if he were to pan out for a team like Philly.

I don't know if they have cap room, but they are surely looking to upgrade their Defence, and Volchy, love him or hate him is a better defenceman than Foster and Gervais, that's for sure. And if bought out he will most likely be seeing some very low offers like 1-2 years for less than 2 million.

I think if you are Lou, you wait until training camp/preseason to buy guys out. We have cap space aplenty, and I'd only buy someone out before training camp if it was going to deter a re-signing or signing. Send a message to these guys that there are younger guys gnawing at their heels, and if they don't perform and get beat by a rookie, they will be bought out.

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05-30-2013, 11:35 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by GeNeXt View Post
I say Salvador... While Volch has never been outstanding here, consider that he broke his ankle in the KHL before the lockout. In my opinion that will slow you down and could take additional time to fully recover and a long offseason could help. I am in a huge minority, but maybe he will have a bounce back year. He's suited up for just 166 games over 3 seasons, I know this was a shortened one, but I feel we should wait to see how he is at training camp.

If we were to buy him out I have an awful feeling that Philly may come knocking on his door. While that may seem like a good thing, because we get to play against him, but at the same time it would be devastating if he were to pan out for a team like Philly.

I don't know if they have cap room, but they are surely looking to upgrade their Defence, and Volchy, love him or hate him is a better defenceman than Foster and Gervais, that's for sure. And if bought out he will most likely be seeing some very low offers like 1-2 years for less than 2 million.

I think if you are Lou, you wait until training camp/preseason to buy guys out. We have cap space aplenty, and I'd only buy someone out before training camp if it was going to deter a re-signing or signing. Send a message to these guys that there are younger guys gnawing at their heels, and if they don't perform and get beat by a rookie, they will be bought out.
Can't. Buyouts have to happen prior to UFA, unless someone is taking you to arbitration.

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05-30-2013, 11:39 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
Why does it burn to waste cap space we couldn't possibly use anyway? And two years from now Andy Greene and Mark Fayne could still easily be around.

Right now the team is hurting for real cash a lot more than it is for cap space.

Couldn't possibly use? That money could be allocated towards the offense.

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05-30-2013, 11:40 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by MichaelJ View Post
Couldn't possibly use? That money could be allocated towards the offense.
Who are you signing? How big are the contracts that you're signing them to if you're pushing against the salary cap?

The cap could become an issue two years from now, I suppose, but it's not one right now and it's not going to be one in the next year. We've got more cap space than we could spend right now.

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05-31-2013, 11:06 AM
  #113
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Who are you signing? How big are the contracts that you're signing them to if you're pushing against the salary cap?

The cap could become an issue two years from now, I suppose, but it's not one right now and it's not going to be one in the next year. We've got more cap space than we could spend right now.
Why does it have to be a signing? Are the Devils precluded from making trades? If they're going to deal prospects for an established NHL scorer there is going to be a salary discrepancy that the added cap room will allow for.

I know that Cup run in 2012 made fans believe that by just replacing Parise the team would have as good a chance as anyone. I just don't see it that way. If the Devils want to be an elite team they're going to have to add multiple forwards. Since they have the cap room, why not?

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05-31-2013, 11:11 AM
  #114
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Why does it have to be a signing? Are the Devils precluded from making trades? If they're going to deal prospects for an established NHL scorer there is going to be a salary discrepancy that the added cap room will allow for.

I know that Cup run in 2012 made fans believe that by just replacing Parise the team would have as good a chance as anyone. I just don't see it that way. If the Devils want to be an elite team they're going to have to add multiple forwards. Since they have the cap room, why not?
Okay. Then who are you trading for? What assets do you think the Devils have available to make the kinds of moves that you're talking about? What kind of dent in the prospect pool are you envisioning?

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05-31-2013, 11:23 AM
  #115
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Okay. Then who are you trading for? What assets do you think the Devils have available to make the kinds of moves that you're talking about? What kind of dent in the prospect pool are you envisioning?
I'll take a proven player over a prospect any day of the week. We have a pretty crappy prospect pool outside of 2 or 3 names, a couple of youngsters in Larsson, Henrique, Josefson and Fayne plus our 9th overall pick.

That's our moveable assets to land something significant that will help our top #6. Now, the question is this... Does Lou want to move young pieces to help our team now or does he stay "status quo" and wait for his kids to grow up and reach their potential?

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05-31-2013, 11:24 AM
  #116
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I'll take a proven player over a prospect any day of the week. We have a pretty crappy prospect pool outside of 2 or 3 names, a couple of youngsters in Larsson, Henrique, Josefson and Fayne plus our 9th overall pick.

That's our moveable assets to land something significant that will help our top #6. Now, the question is this... Does Lou want to move young pieces to help our team now or does he stay "status quo" and wait for his kids to grow up and reach their potential?
The point is it takes two teams to make a deal. Two. Not one. Lou cannot unilaterally make trades. Who are you trading for that the cap space is actually going to come into play? I've played with the numbers, it's actually pretty hard to put this team into cap trouble next season. You'd basically have to trade for Vincent Lecavalier and not send any salary back to pull it off.

Go ahead, tell me what deals you're advocating here. Who are you acquiring, and who are you sending to acquire them?

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05-31-2013, 12:02 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
I'll take a proven player over a prospect any day of the week. We have a pretty crappy prospect pool outside of 2 or 3 names, a couple of youngsters in Larsson, Henrique, Josefson and Fayne plus our 9th overall pick.

That's our moveable assets to land something significant that will help our top #6. Now, the question is this... Does Lou want to move young pieces to help our team now or does he stay "status quo" and wait for his kids to grow up and reach their potential?
so you want to trade Larsson (semi-proven) for an unproven prospect with 0 experience but then you go and say you'll take a proven player any day of the week?

make up your damn mind.

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05-31-2013, 12:14 PM
  #118
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Okay. Then who are you trading for? What assets do you think the Devils have available to make the kinds of moves that you're talking about? What kind of dent in the prospect pool are you envisioning?
No offense, but I don't need you to tell me that it takes two teams to make a deal. Is every team in the NHL going to hold onto every scorer they have? There are no teams that need defense and have offense? I'm not going to set out specific targets because I'm certain that you'll tell me that every single one of them is unattainable for whatever reason suits you.

What dent would I make in prospects? A huge one. As I mentioned earlier, I'd only gamble on Larsson, Merrill, and Severson becoming NHL players as they have the highest ceilings. That's not to say that none of the other prospects cannot or won't make it, I'm just betting on the strongest horses. If the team holds onto to all of them, some will undoubtedly fail and the Devils will have lost the opportunity to deal them. Identify the core pieces and trade the rest. The #9 pick, Boucher (most goals in OHL), Urbom, Gelinas, Tedenby, Josefson, Matteau, Burlon, and Scarlett are fair game and will attract interest. I'd look to deal Tallinder and even one of Greene/Fayne in the right deal.

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05-31-2013, 12:16 PM
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none of those guys you mentioned are worth a damn. maybe Boucher.

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05-31-2013, 12:17 PM
  #120
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No offense, but I don't need you to tell me that it takes two teams to make a deal. Is every team in the NHL going to hold onto every scorer they have? There are no teams that need defense and have offense? I'm not going to set out specific targets because I'm certain that you'll tell me that every single one of them is unattainable for whatever reason suits you.

What dent would I make in prospects? A huge one. As I mentioned earlier, I'd only gamble on Larsson, Merrill, and Severson becoming NHL players as they have the highest ceilings. That's not to say that none of the other prospects cannot or won't make it, I'm just betting on the strongest horses. If the team holds onto to all of them, some will undoubtedly fail and the Devils will have lost the opportunity to deal them. Identify the core pieces and trade the rest. The #9 pick, Boucher (most goals in OHL), Urbom, Gelinas, Tedenby, Josefson, Matteau, Burlon, and Scarlett are fair game and will attract interest. I'd look to deal Tallinder and even one of Greene/Fayne in the right deal.
I agree with everything you've said here. Except the 9th overall and Boucher, I'm not interested in dealing them. And I'd not deal Greene or Fayne, being our only two really reliable defensemen.

The rest of those guys, any of them I'd trade in the right deal. The problem is they're not going to bring back the kind of players that might put the Devils in a position where the cap becomes a concern.

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05-31-2013, 12:18 PM
  #121
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No offense, but I don't need you to tell me that it takes two teams to make a deal. Is every team in the NHL going to hold onto every scorer they have? There are no teams that need defense and have offense? I'm not going to set out specific targets because I'm certain that you'll tell me that every single one of them is unattainable for whatever reason suits you.

What dent would I make in prospects? A huge one. As I mentioned earlier, I'd only gamble on Larsson, Merrill, and Severson becoming NHL players as they have the highest ceilings. That's not to say that none of the other prospects cannot or won't make it, I'm just betting on the strongest horses. If the team holds onto to all of them, some will undoubtedly fail and the Devils will have lost the opportunity to deal them. Identify the core pieces and trade the rest. The #9 pick, Boucher (most goals in OHL), Urbom, Gelinas, Tedenby, Josefson, Matteau, Burlon, and Scarlett are fair game and will attract interest. I'd look to deal Tallinder and even one of Greene/Fayne in the right deal.
One of Greene/Fayne? Are you saying they are similar in value?

Greene is our best Dman by a fairly wide margin. Plus he has a good cap hit. I only trade Greene in a package for a top player.

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05-31-2013, 12:19 PM
  #122
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what the hell is happening

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05-31-2013, 12:19 PM
  #123
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One of Greene/Fayne? Are you saying they are similar in value?

Greene is our best Dman by a fairly wide margin. Plus he has a good cap hit. I only trade Greene in a package for a top player.
Fayne has a lot of value because of his minuscule contract and the fact that he's a RH shot.

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05-31-2013, 12:21 PM
  #124
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I'm envisioning retaining Elias, Zubrus, Kovalchuk, Henrique, and Zajac in the top 9. I'd sign at least one amnestied player, trade for a youngish RFA like Pouliot (while I know Steve Yzerman doesn't post on HFB, but over at the TB board they seemed willing to trade him for a3rd or a 4th), and package #9 with a prospect or two for a top flight scorer from a team that IS in salary cap trouble or has more scoring and less defense than they need. That brings us to 8 players.

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05-31-2013, 12:22 PM
  #125
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I'm envisioning retaining Elias, Zubrus, Kovalchuk, Henrique, and Zajac in the top 9. I'd sign at least one amnestied player, trade for a youngish RFA like Pouliot (while I know Steve Yzerman doesn't post on HFB, but over at the TB board they seemed willing to trade him for a3rd or a 4th), and package #9 with a prospect or two for a top flight scorer from a team that IS in salary cap trouble or has more scoring and less defense than they need. That brings us to 8 players.
You could do all that and still keep Salvador and Volchenkov without getting into cap trouble. And you're forgetting Loktionov.

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