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Trade value of Andrei Markov

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Old
05-29-2013, 12:10 PM
  #51
Hullois
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
An aging, injury prone, increasingly ineffective, overpaid pp specialist. Pretty much nothing. Certainly not until deadline time when somebody inevitably panics and tries to catch lightning in a bottle.
I wonder if all your 45,000 posts are bad like this one.

Markov played a lot more than most players in the league this season, and it was a condensed season, for a guy in his first year back from a major injury, and still he was our #1D for the first month of the season and kept our PP working all season long. All that while losing his D partner a month from the playoffs.

I hope he retires a Hab

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05-29-2013, 01:31 PM
  #52
Monctonscout
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In terms of the long term health of the team, I hope Markov is either extended or traded...not let walk in July 2014.

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05-29-2013, 01:47 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
In terms of the long term health of the team, I hope Markov is either extended or traded...not let walk in July 2014.
Trade him at the deadline for some solid prospects. Bring him in as an Assistant Coach for the next season.

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05-29-2013, 01:53 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
In terms of the long term health of the team, I hope Markov is either extended or traded...not let walk in July 2014.
I completley get what you mean, but if the Habs are doing very well next year, a lock to make he playoffs, Markov is playing decent, and Bealieau is having a good year in the AHL. You really cant trade Markov up while even though that you know you might if the next contract doesn't make sense to you, your better off letting him walk, and have Bealieau take his place.

I mean its like we Gainey traded Rivet when were in a playoff race, Rivet at that point wasn't a key player anymore.

Its almost like Ryder, IMO when Bergevin traded for Ryder he knew he wasn't going to re-sign him, but he knew that he could bring something to the table, and that something was valued more than maybe trading Ryder at the trade deadline.

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05-29-2013, 02:22 PM
  #55
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With the amount of minutes Markov played this season and the key situations he played in, I doubt the Habs would have won as many games as they did if he was really as bad as some are making him out to be.

Does this mean he's immovable and all-star top 5 d-man? No. But he is far from being just a PP specialist.

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05-29-2013, 02:42 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
I completley get what you mean, but if the Habs are doing very well next year, a lock to make he playoffs, Markov is playing decent, and Bealieau is having a good year in the AHL. You really cant trade Markov up while even though that you know you might if the next contract doesn't make sense to you, your better off letting him walk, and have Bealieau take his place.

I mean its like we Gainey traded Rivet when were in a playoff race, Rivet at that point wasn't a key player anymore.

Its almost like Ryder, IMO when Bergevin traded for Ryder he knew he wasn't going to re-sign him, but he knew that he could bring something to the table, and that something was valued more than maybe trading Ryder at the trade deadline.
That's where a GM has to talk with the player's agent. What type of contract does he want(length, money), how long does he want to play and does he really want to play here. If Markov is ready to sign for 3 more years at 14-15 mil it's pretty hard to pass up. Plus if he becomes obsolete here he would be pretty easy to trade. A low risk move is adding another year extension at 5-5.5 mil.

I don't see Beaulieu being ready to play #3 minutes after one more yaer of seasoning, I see him jumping in as a #5-6-7 at some point from Jan 2014 to Dec 2014 then into a top 4 role at some point from Jan 2015-Dec 2015. To me he is a half yaer behind Tinordi.

Ryder I don't think anything was etched in stone, he surpassed expectations a bit during the season and was somewhat of a flop at playoff time. His strong season meant that his price is 4-5 mil in cap hit over 3-4 years and his playoff flop convinced MB he didn't want to pay him that kind of money.

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05-29-2013, 02:55 PM
  #57
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To me it only makes sense to move him once Beaulieu is ready to be an every day player and even then it's debatable. He got slower as the season went on but he played a lot of hockey in a short span after not playing any for 2 years. He's still a valuable PP man and has the smarts and skill to be effective for years to come. But he becomes more easily moveable once Beaulieu is ready.

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05-29-2013, 02:59 PM
  #58
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I'd let him spend the last year of his contract, then potentially try to replace him from within by a guy like Beaulieu. I didn't like his play after the 20 first games of the season, but he's still the least of our concerns on D. As long as he doesn't play as many minutes next season.

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05-29-2013, 03:20 PM
  #59
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with Emelin a ? both to start the season & what his level of play will look like when he does get back, & with Tinordi/Beaulieu both being very unlikely to be ready for a regular top-4 spot, hard to see he sense in moving Markov for anything short of a huge return.

Would make much more sense to keep him and IF things go well (Emelin makes full recovery, 1 or both of Beaulieu/Tinordi earn regular roster spots, Diaz gets back to the level of play he showed before the injury), then moving Markov in-season, approaching the deadline, could make a lot of sense.

right now? i doubt any team would make us the kind of offer to make it worth the risk of going into the season without Markov.

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05-29-2013, 11:38 PM
  #60
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A first for Markov? Some of you are dreaming in a lot more colors than I'm used to. He has slowed down enough to have a majority of teams show no interest whatsoever imho. If there is any bidding war on a possible deadline trade look for the kind of return Clowe got at best.

In this off season, forget it, his value is 0 or close to it.

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05-30-2013, 12:59 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
A first for Markov? Some of you are dreaming in a lot more colors than I'm used to. He has slowed down enough to have a majority of teams show no interest whatsoever imho. If there is any bidding war on a possible deadline trade look for the kind of return Clowe got at best.

In this off season, forget it, his value is 0 or close to it.
30 pts in 48 games with 25mins + of TOI average. Markov can certainly be worth a lot to many teams. If MB can trade Cole for Ryder, he can certainly get a great return for Markov. I honestly don't see a single team in the league not being interested to some degree.

The worst teams on pp this year from worst to best: WPG, BUF, CBJ, CAR, BOS, PHX

We can certainly work something interesting with any of these teams.

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Old
05-30-2013, 05:30 AM
  #62
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Value of Markov? (good question...not as easy as it may seem to some who think we can get a lot for Markov at the trade deadline).

Plus...he always has a no trade clause, no? (#$%^&*#$$%@#).


Smart GM:
a smart GM knows that Markov is usually one hit away from a career
threatening injury. He has done NOTHING (ZERO) in the playoffs and so a GM won't offer so much (maybe a 2nd rnd pick OR 3rd rnd pick + good prospect...maybe). His stats are non-existent in the playoffs and he is invisible in the playoffs.
He was never a playoff warrior (never). And to those who still say Subban can learn a lot from Markov
(it's the other way around...Markov can learn a lot from Subban).


Dumb GM:
a dumb GM (or a gm that is way too hopeful, desperate, delusional) will think that Markov will help the team during the playoffs and maybe offer a 1st Rnd pick and a decent prospect for Markov...I'm hoping for this but I wouldn't hold my breath.


The best part (positive) about Markov in the 2013 season...
he stayed healthy for once. But, other than the first 20 games...he was ultra slow (turtle slow). I still don't know why he gets more than 18-21 min./game. Is the coach trying to expose him (good job...very successful).


The truth will hurt some here:
we will be a better team when Markov stops collecting $5.75mil/year and goes away (but we need a solid top 4 gritty/iron-man replacement). Markov's a regular season dman (when he's healthy) but a huge ZERO in playoffs...why keep him any longer? To kill time, right? (to give time to our REAL prospect dmen). I'd trade Markov, but he has a no trade clause...$%^&*@#$%, and his value may not be that high, unless Glen ''idiot GM'' Sather wants to give him $25mil for 5 yrs!!!!!!


We're missing 2-3 quality/solid dmen (the top teams have 4 solid dmen...we have a cream-puff top 4...and let's be honest...Gorges and Emelin are good as #5-6 on our team unless Gorges can be the warrior that he can be):
<PK Subban
<________
<________
<________
<Gorges? (IF he can play like the pre-big-contract-Gorges...he was **** this season...he better ****ing bounce back)
<Emelin? (solid bodychecker/shot-blocker, but...needs more defense 101 sense... I'm always questioning his defense).
<Tinordi (future looks bright...needs one more AHL year?)
<Beaulieu (very talented but still raw...1 1/2 AHL seasons left?)
<Ellis (hopefully will be a way better version of Gorges with time...can't wait till he's ready)
<Thrower (can't wait till he's ready...2 yrs of AHL?)


Regehr please? (2-3 yrs).


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 05-30-2013 at 05:44 AM.
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05-30-2013, 10:07 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
A first for Markov? Some of you are dreaming in a lot more colors than I'm used to. He has slowed down enough to have a majority of teams show no interest whatsoever imho. If there is any bidding war on a possible deadline trade look for the kind of return Clowe got at best.

In this off season, forget it, his value is 0 or close to it.
You're saying people are dreaming in colors and then say Markov has 0 trade value this summer, or close to it. This based on your personal opinion that he slowed down to the point of having the majority of teams in the NHL bow out of any interest. It really has nothing to do with the fact that he has played very little hockey over the years, that he was overused early on. Nope, it's because he slowed down to the point where he has about as much value as Francis Bouillon, you're absolutely right.
If people are dreaming in colors, your dreams are in black. Pull it together man.

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05-30-2013, 10:10 AM
  #64
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Trading Markov is a major gamble. I guess it's all about what you would get for him what what do we realy expect for his services.....a yougn roster player, prospect and draft pick(2nd round)? Not sure what to make of this.

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05-30-2013, 11:10 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
I completley get what you mean, but if the Habs are doing very well next year, a lock to make he playoffs, Markov is playing decent, and Bealieau is having a good year in the AHL. You really cant trade Markov up while even though that you know you might if the next contract doesn't make sense to you, your better off letting him walk, and have Bealieau take his place.

I mean its like we Gainey traded Rivet when were in a playoff race, Rivet at that point wasn't a key player anymore.

Its almost like Ryder, IMO when Bergevin traded for Ryder he knew he wasn't going to re-sign him, but he knew that he could bring something to the table, and that something was valued more than maybe trading Ryder at the trade deadline.
The worst part about that year is that the Canadiens held on to Souray. Imagine what they could have got for him?
It would have been sad at the time but he was a UFA and walked anways.

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Old
05-30-2013, 11:44 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
If Edmonton is still willing to trade their 1st round pick I'd go ahead and trade Markov and a prospect like Nystrom .
Markov has to waive NMC. I don't know about Nystrom, but what about their 2nd and PS? I hear talks that he's regressed a lot but is there a chance he's not on the right team aka he's too low on the depth chart to be given a chance to excel again? Just a thought, don't ream me please .

Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
I completley get what you mean, but if the Habs are doing very well next year, a lock to make he playoffs, Markov is playing decent, and Bealieau is having a good year in the AHL. You really cant trade Markov up while even though that you know you might if the next contract doesn't make sense to you, your better off letting him walk, and have Bealieau take his place.

I mean its like we Gainey traded Rivet when were in a playoff race, Rivet at that point wasn't a key player anymore.

Its almost like Ryder, IMO when Bergevin traded for Ryder he knew he wasn't going to re-sign him, but he knew that he could bring something to the table, and that something was valued more than maybe trading Ryder at the trade deadline.
Dont' trade Markov if either Markov is playing well, Bealieu is playing well in the AHL or both. Markov is injury prone with those knees and having a very suitable replacement in Beaulieu come up should Markov get injured (PO time or Regular Season) is highly valuable. Now if we're not even contending for a PO spot, trade Markov for prospect(s)/pick(s) and hope (please hockey gods) that he wants to come back to MTL as he LOVES it here, and I mean actually loves playing here (unlike another roster player we know ).

Also after next season, if Markov does play well, re-sign at 1 year at 5.75 or less (yes that much if he ends up getting 50-60 pts as a defenseman) or at 2 years at 4.5 or less. IMO, I don't think Beaulieu will not be an everyday NHL defenseman contributing offensively for us until 2015 at the earliest. Until such a point where management believes Beaulieu is ready to be an everyday in the big time, keep Markov. Re-sign after 2014 to a 1-year deal is preferable but at slightly less cap hit for 2 years wouldn't be bad either, provided his stats stay up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
A first for Markov? Some of you are dreaming in a lot more colors than I'm used to. He has slowed down enough to have a majority of teams show no interest whatsoever imho. If there is any bidding war on a possible deadline trade look for the kind of return Clowe got at best.

In this off season, forget it, his value is 0 or close to it.
Are you on drugs? Just to explain my earlier post, we got the Wiz, another injury prone, offensive defenseman that has lesser vision and defensive ability than Markov and we gave up a 2nd rounder for him. Markov should go for a secound round plus a 2nd/3rd line projected prospect or a low 1st round draft pick (20-30).

If Markov plays as well or slightly worse than he did last year (in terms of stats) and we're shipping him at the deadline for whatever reasons (most likely out of contention), then look for MB to make a sizeable return for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
30 pts in 48 games with 25mins + of TOI average. Markov can certainly be worth a lot to many teams. If MB can trade Cole for Ryder, he can certainly get a great return for Markov. I honestly don't see a single team in the league not being interested to some degree.

The worst teams on pp this year from worst to best: WPG, BUF, CBJ, CAR, BOS, PHX

We can certainly work something interesting with any of these teams.
Please not to BOS/BUF, don't want to see Markov scoring on us in these division games. Preferably goes to WPG (a Canadian team I want to make the POs and be successful), PHX as they are outside the "conference" for next year. Wouldn't be mad if he could be traded to CAR or CBJ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
Value of Markov? (good question...not as easy as it may seem to some who think we can get a lot for Markov at the trade deadline).

Plus...he always has a no trade clause, no? (#$%^&*#$$%@#).


Smart GM:
a smart GM knows that Markov is usually one hit away from a career
threatening injury. He has done NOTHING (ZERO) in the playoffs and so a GM won't offer so much (maybe a 2nd rnd pick OR 3rd rnd pick + good prospect...maybe). His stats are non-existent in the playoffs and he is invisible in the playoffs.
He was never a playoff warrior (never). And to those who still say Subban can learn a lot from Markov
(it's the other way around...Markov can learn a lot from Subban).


Dumb GM:
a dumb GM (or a gm that is way too hopeful, desperate, delusional) will think that Markov will help the team during the playoffs and maybe offer a 1st Rnd pick and a decent prospect for Markov...I'm hoping for this but I wouldn't hold my breath.


The best part (positive) about Markov in the 2013 season...
he stayed healthy for once. But, other than the first 20 games...he was ultra slow (turtle slow). I still don't know why he gets more than 18-21 min./game. Is the coach trying to expose him (good job...very successful).


The truth will hurt some here:
we will be a better team when Markov stops collecting $5.75mil/year and goes away (but we need a solid top 4 gritty/iron-man replacement). Markov's a regular season dman (when he's healthy) but a huge ZERO in playoffs...why keep him any longer? To kill time, right? (to give time to our REAL prospect dmen). I'd trade Markov, but he has a no trade clause...$%^&*@#$%, and his value may not be that high, unless Glen ''idiot GM'' Sather wants to give him $25mil for 5 yrs!!!!!!


We're missing 2-3 quality/solid dmen (the top teams have 4 solid dmen...we have a cream-puff top 4...and let's be honest...Gorges and Emelin are good as #5-6 on our team unless Gorges can be the warrior that he can be):
<PK Subban
<________
<________
<________
<Gorges? (IF he can play like the pre-big-contract-Gorges...he was **** this season...he better ****ing bounce back)
<Emelin? (solid bodychecker/shot-blocker, but...needs more defense 101 sense... I'm always questioning his defense).
<Tinordi (future looks bright...needs one more AHL year?)
<Beaulieu (very talented but still raw...1 1/2 AHL seasons left?)
<Ellis (hopefully will be a way better version of Gorges with time...can't wait till he's ready)
<Thrower (can't wait till he's ready...2 yrs of AHL?)


Regehr please? (2-3 yrs).
I don't understand how 19 pts in 54 GP for a defenseman in the POs is a ZERO?

That's on pace for approximately 35 PTS in an 82 game stretch. Not typical Marky Mark numbers but considering recently he's been injury prone and add to the fact that we sucked big time his year in the POs, i'll take it.

Subban can learn from Markov. What people mean by this statement is that Markov is an unflashy, productive and defensively sound defenseman (before the injuries). PK is the opposite in some of these respects: flashy, still productive, but not as defensively sound as Markov once was. This what PK needs to learn, how to be productive and not as flashy, something he's worked on and done for most of this season but would try to do too much, be flashy, and have it backfire sometimes.

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05-30-2013, 11:49 AM
  #67
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Smart GM:
a smart GM knows that Markov is usually one hit away from a career
threatening injury.
Thats actually what fans who have no clue think. Thinking he's one hit away from a career is a purely emotional reaction to having seen him miss nearly entire seasons recently. He's had a purely accidental injury (skate cut - Gordie friggin Howe would have missed dozens of games) and then another from which he seemingly recovered (and so did a ton of players who came back and played long careers. At the same age like, 10 years ago, Selanne was also ''one hit away from a career'' exactly the same way).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hab
The truth will hurt some here:
we will be a better team when Markov stops collecting $5.75mil/year and goes away (but we need a solid top 4 gritty/iron-man replacement). Markov's a regular season dman (when he's healthy) but a huge ZERO in playoffs...why keep him any longer? To kill time, right? (to give time to our REAL prospect dmen). I'd trade Markov, but he has a no trade clause...$%^&*@#$%, and his value may not be that high, unless Glen ''idiot GM'' Sather wants to give him $25mil for 5 yrs!!!!!!
How does his salary hurt the team? Please, tell me, and then explain me how exactly is he untradeable in case there is nobody else to move and we really need an extra 6m to so we can, say, trade for a 12m player without giving back any salary? Or perhaps there is a mega free agent available next summer that really wants to sign with the Habs and nobody noticed? Please, enlighten me about that hurtful truth. The Habs have a healthy cap situation with Gomez, Kaberle (soon to be), Cole/Ryder (won't be re-signed).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vokiel
A first for Markov? Some of you are dreaming in a lot more colors than I'm used to. He has slowed down enough to have a majority of teams show no interest whatsoever imho. If there is any bidding war on a possible deadline trade look for the kind of return Clowe got at best.

In this off season, forget it, his value is 0 or close to it.
We can definitely get a first and other assets for Markov. Have you seen the price of defensemen these days? Besides the first rounder would be 20 to 30 overall likely, nobody expects Calgary or Colorado to trade assets for an over 30 player. Markov would be of great help to any good team with a so-so powerplay or needing another PMD.


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05-30-2013, 04:06 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
A first for Markov? Some of you are dreaming in a lot more colors than I'm used to. He has slowed down enough to have a majority of teams show no interest whatsoever imho. If there is any bidding war on a possible deadline trade look for the kind of return Clowe got at best.

In this off season, forget it, his value is 0 or close to it.
Slow down while being the 4th best in points.
He had the most TOI of all our D-Men and was getting more SH TOI than PK.

Well if he has slowed down that much, we can just hope that he regains his speed and becomes the best D-men in the league.

Murray was worth two second round.
So you are saying that Murray is better than Markov.

Clowe was never near to be the best player of his team.
Markov was the best player of the Habs for at least 5 years.

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05-30-2013, 05:24 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
A first for Markov? Some of you are dreaming in a lot more colors than I'm used to. He has slowed down enough to have a majority of teams show no interest whatsoever imho. If there is any bidding war on a possible deadline trade look for the kind of return Clowe got at best.

In this off season, forget it, his value is 0 or close to it.
Do you think good d-men grow on trees? Most NHL teamns don't have 4 legit top 4 d-men, as much as he's been hurt, I'm sure10-15 teams would be knocking on Bergevin's door if AM was on the block.

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05-30-2013, 08:29 PM
  #70
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To me it only makes sense to move him once Beaulieu is ready to be an every day player and even then it's debatable. He got slower as the season went on but he played a lot of hockey in a short span after not playing any for 2 years. He's still a valuable PP man and has the smarts and skill to be effective for years to come. But he becomes more easily moveable once Beaulieu is ready.
agreed Nathan is his replacement with sick skills

Markov is nowhere what the was , folks he was gassed out at 50 games and his d was below average with his bad plus - rating , even though I m not a huge fan of this rating but he was exposed quite often this season

I dont want to pay him for a declining asset beyond his current deal

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05-30-2013, 11:47 PM
  #71
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Top 5 defenseman in scoring and best PPQB in the league has no value. Today I learned.

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05-31-2013, 12:12 AM
  #72
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agreed Nathan is his replacement with sick skills

Markov is nowhere what the was , folks he was gassed out at 50 games and his d was below average with his bad plus - rating , even though I m not a huge fan of this rating but he was exposed quite often this season

I dont want to pay him for a declining asset beyond his current deal
1. He also played in Russia. Thats 74 games for him this year, pretty good for a guy that can't stay healthy. Its his first full season in years anyway, we should cut him some slack. Practicing&conditioning is good but the best way to get in game shape is to, well, play games. I actually expect him to fare better next year.

2. +/- doesn't mean much, it doesn't take into account minutes played, opponents faced, situations the player is put in ect. Did you know Lidstrom once had the worst +/- on his team for regular defensemen? He was the only negative. Oh and he won the Norris that year (2010-11).

3. We'll be lucky if Beaulieu is ever as good a PPQB as Markov is right now.

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05-31-2013, 09:05 AM
  #73
CGG
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Love it when all the geniouses come out here and decide that Markov is "done" because he's 34 years old and the Habs didn't win a playoff round with a fist full of injuries.

The main difference between 2011-12 Montreal and 2012-13 Montreal was a healthy Andrei Markov. I don't know how this is even debatable. The guy was 4th in the entire league in points for a defenseman. 1st in PP goals. 1st in GWG. 2nd in PP points (behind Subban). He's still the best PP QB in the league, bar none.

He scored 8 PPG and 4 GWG during the lockout shortened season. No defenseman did that during the full 2011-12 season. Only Byfuglien did that in 2010-11. This is rarified air here. The guy still has it.

Oh yeah, he played all 48 games and all 5 playoff games. No injuries at all.

Is he as good as 28 year old Markov? Probably not. Is he as fast as he once was? Probably not. Did he show signs of fatigue in his first real season? Sure. But he's still one of the best blueliners in the league. He was a -3 playing the majority of the time with Emelin on his off side as his partner. Emelin got hurt, the whole team went in the tank, and with a rotating cast of partners he ended the season -9. Big freaking deal. Look at the big picture - without Markov, last in the conference. With Markov, 1st in the division.

Douglas Murray is 33 years old and has never been, shall we say, "quick". He also finished -9 this season despite playing with two very good teams - San Jose and Pittsburgh. He put up an impressive 6 points total in 43 games. He has no offensive talent whatsoever. San Jose only played him 17:08 on average, less than 7 other defensemen on the team. And he was traded for two 2nd round picks. Not just one, but 2.

So for all the geniouses out there saying no team would want Markov or no team would actually give up anything of value for him, please stop. You're embarassing yourselves.

Of course we'll never know for sure since Montreal simply won't trade the guy. They don't want to miss the playoffs next season, so they'll keep Markov thank you very much.

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05-31-2013, 09:20 AM
  #74
Monctonscout
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I can see a scenario where Markov gets traded at some point in the next 12 months, but it won't be because he sucks, it would be because there is a deal that makes sense for the long term success of the team, not a "let's get rid of him because he sucks" situation. I think he still has 3-5 good years in the tank, moreso as a high end #3-4 guy tahn a #1 or 2, but after a summer of rest, his speed/agility may bounce back.

The one scenario I hope we don't see is him just leaving as a UFA with no return. MB as a Gm with the Habs 2-3 yaers from being a Chicago/Pittsburgh/LA type contender can't lose an asset like Markov for nothing.

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05-31-2013, 09:40 AM
  #75
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If Markov is moved, then PK's points are gonna take a hit, and the powerplay is gonna drop considerably. For a team that relies on a pp to generate offence, that is just a dumb move. Next year will be the telling point to see if he can regain his mobility, as that was the only really issue I saw. Hockey sense-wise, he is second to no-one on this team. The way he steps up to intercept passes as the other team comes up the ice, no one else on this team can do. If he doesn't recover his mobility, he is still better offensively & defensively) than Gorges, Diaz, Bouillion, and any other guy you want to throw in there. No one moves the puck up like he does. So if you want to move him, good luck finding someone who can do everything he does. It will be difficult, and it will cost us quite a bit.

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