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Old
10-05-2006, 05:26 PM
  #51
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Wow, canucks made off as bandits for this one. Isn't Allen a UFA too after this season?
Thank you for brining something constructive to our board. You're on such a roll today.

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10-05-2006, 06:44 PM
  #52
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Thank you for brining something constructive to our board. You're on such a roll today.

pathetic isnt it?

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10-05-2006, 06:59 PM
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Absolute WORST CASE SCENARIO:

Florida deals Bertuzzi at the trade deadline.

I could not imagine the PR nightmare the organization would have on its hands should they let the prize returning piece from the Luongo deal head into Unrestriced Free Agency with no return. Won't happen. If he doesn't sign longterm during the regular season, Martin will trade him by the trade deadline. They won't take the risk of Bert changing his mind come summer.The only way Martin keeps him past the deadline (assuming he hasn't inked longterm by then) is if Florida looks like a Cup contender; not a one-and-done team, but a full-blown contender.

Bertuzzi either signs longterm around January (when you can begin discussions with impending UFAs) or he is gone by the deadline.

He is 31 years old, past his prime IMO. Florida already has at least two power forwrd-types (Jokinen/Horton, maybe even Stewart) going into the future. He is going into UFA, will overvalue himself as all UFAs do, and will hold Florida hostage (give me big bucks or i'll test UFA waters).

Trade him to a contender at the deadline who is willing to overpay. I really don't see Bertuzzi being elite as most fans do. I'd be hard-pressed to put him into a list of the top 50 players in the NHL right now.

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10-05-2006, 09:12 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Exactly, it's going to be more of the same for Louie in Vancouver, the defense getting the blame for him falling alseep in goal when not facing 30+ shots, his horrendous rebound control, and his dumb demands.
first of all, anybody on this board who says they're happy to be rid of luongo or that he sucks knows nothing about the game. NOTHING. please, go educate yourself a bit - watch a bunch of hockey or lace up and go and play the game - before embarassing yourself or the knowledgable folks on this board further. i'll add that anybody who is a fan of the panthers and knows the game should have a sinking feeling right about now. i've been watching the detroit/van game tonight and i'm seeing exactly what i thought i would see. louie was stellar with great support in front of him. for those that continue to bandy about the words "rebound control", i've fought you on this before and i'll just mention the color announcer ON THE CBC BROADCAST made a point of mentioning roberto's strong rebound control. please, drop the rebound control schtick. nail him to the cross for the poor stickhandling if you will but the rebound control crap is off the mark. for the "primmadonna" crowd, both announcers commented on the fact that all they've heard from teammates past and present is that roberto's work ethic, demeanor and ability are outstanding.

it's one game and louie will certainly have a bad night or three but i'm just sick and tired of reading this garbage. we can argue about how he behaved during the negotions until the cows come home but the fact of the matter is that we gave up one of the top top goalies in the league. and for what? bertuzzi better perform and better sign or bring a lot in return at the trade deadline. like i said... sinking feeling.

PS - oh yeah, how many shots did louie face tonight laus723???

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10-05-2006, 09:20 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by michaels87 View Post
first of all, anybody on this board who says they're happy to be rid of luongo or that he sucks knows nothing about the game. NOTHING. please, go educate yourself a bit - watch a bunch of hockey or lace up and go and play the game - before embarassing yourself or the knowledgable folks on this board further. i'll add that anybody who is a fan of the panthers and knows the game should have a sinking feeling right about now. i've been watching the detroit/van game tonight and i'm seeing exactly what i thought i would see. louie was stellar with great support in front of him. for those that continue to bandy about the words "rebound control", i've fought you on this before and i'll just mention the color announcer ON THE CBC BROADCAST made a point of mentioning roberto's strong rebound control. please, drop the rebound control schtick. nail him to the cross for the poor stickhandling if you will but the rebound control crap is off the mark. for the "primmadonna" crowd, both announcers commented on the fact that all they've heard from teammates past and present is that roberto's work ethic, demeanor and ability are outstanding.

it's one game and louie will certainly have a bad night or three but i'm just sick and tired of reading this garbage. we can argue about how he behaved during the negotions until the cows come home but the fact of the matter is that we gave up one of the top top goalies in the league. and for what? bertuzzi better perform and better sign or bring a lot in return at the trade deadline. like i said... sinking feeling.

PS - oh yeah, how many shots did louie face tonight laus723???
Well, I'm pretty much with you in your camp here. I was and still am sad to see Luongo not in a Panthers uniform. To trade a goalie like him and not lose the trade would be a rare thing. The funniest thing is that Vancouver fans got all excited over him tonight, and I'll be the first to say that wasn't Luongo's greatest game. They have only seen a fraction of what he is really capable of. That's totally not an insult, that's a forecast for what they can expect.

However, I still do think his rebound control isn't the greatest. He had games with us where he was steller, and sometimes would carry that for several games, but I never saw great rebound control from him on a consistent basis.

I don't dog on his stickhandling because yea, it never got us that great assist (like Turco last night) but it rarely hurt us. One mistake against Carolina, but that's the only one I can remember in the years he was here.

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10-05-2006, 09:44 PM
  #56
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Well, I'm pretty much with you in your camp here.
i expected that rattrick

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I don't dog on his stickhandling because yea, it never got us that great assist (like Turco last night) but it rarely hurt us. One mistake against Carolina, but that's the only one I can remember in the years he was here.
more than that one mistake. that was really the obvious tip of the iceberg but he's just not a strong puckhandler. he doesn't read the play well with the puck and never really has with the panthers. some of that is communication - you need your D to talk to you - but he's just not a natural. the rebound control... well, there are a lot of subtleties to the argument. i discussed this at length with a coach who was running a skills clinic i attended this summer who played a few years with lowell in the AHL. bottom line is that, yeah, louie might make an extra save or two's worth of work for himself by not wrapping up (or kicking out) a rebound from in close but that's his style. the fact remains, he's an incredibly athletic, technically sound goaltender and those few extra saves that he makes, maybe because of his gawkyness or whatever, don't equate to a fatal flaw. he smothers/wraps up/kicks out the shots he should, i.e. the mid/long-range shots he can see.

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10-05-2006, 09:49 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by michaels87 View Post
i expected that rattrick


more than that one mistake. that was really the obvious tip of the iceberg but he's just not a strong puckhandler. he doesn't read the play well with the puck and never really has with the panthers. some of that is communication - you need your D to talk to you - but he's just not a natural. the rebound control... well, there are a lot of subtleties to the argument. i discussed this at length with a coach who was running a skills clinic i attended this summer who played a few years with lowell in the AHL. bottom line is that, yeah, louie might make an extra save or two's worth of work for himself by not wrapping up (or kicking out) a rebound from in close but that's his style. the fact remains, he's an incredibly athletic, technically sound goaltender and those few extra saves that he makes, maybe because of his gawkyness or whatever, don't equate to a fatal flaw. he smothers/wraps up/kicks out the shots he should, i.e. the mid/long-range shots he can see.
Yup, I pretty much agree with most of that as well. However, I really don't think his stickhandling hurt us very often. Sure, it didn't help us and maybe it hurt us by not helping us, but I don't recall too many times where we just got burnt by his inability to handle the puck. If this is really all people can find on Luongo, it's a testament to how good he is.

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10-05-2006, 10:05 PM
  #58
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In regards to what was said about Bert before about the sincerity of his comments ... I believe that when he says something he means it. Those weren't fake tears in some of his interviews after "the incident". He doesn't always toe the PR line either. He's a pretty sincere guy. I wish him all the best of luck in FLA but boy was it fun to watch the Canucks play an away game tonight and not get booed!!! And I know it's only been one game so far, but Luongo did pretty good with his rebounds tonight. If what we saw tonight wasn't his best then I'm even more excited about this season than I was before!! Amazing what a goalie can do with a D in front of him that is willing to block shots, isn't it?

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10-05-2006, 10:34 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by michaels87 View Post
first of all, anybody on this board who says they're happy to be rid of luongo or that he sucks knows nothing about the game. NOTHING. please, go educate yourself a bit - watch a bunch of hockey or lace up and go and play the game - before embarassing yourself or the knowledgable folks on this board further. i'll add that anybody who is a fan of the panthers and knows the game should have a sinking feeling right about now. i've been watching the detroit/van game tonight and i'm seeing exactly what i thought i would see. louie was stellar with great support in front of him. for those that continue to bandy about the words "rebound control", i've fought you on this before and i'll just mention the color announcer ON THE CBC BROADCAST made a point of mentioning roberto's strong rebound control. please, drop the rebound control schtick. nail him to the cross for the poor stickhandling if you will but the rebound control crap is off the mark. for the "primmadonna" crowd, both announcers commented on the fact that all they've heard from teammates past and present is that roberto's work ethic, demeanor and ability are outstanding.

it's one game and louie will certainly have a bad night or three but i'm just sick and tired of reading this garbage. we can argue about how he behaved during the negotions until the cows come home but the fact of the matter is that we gave up one of the top top goalies in the league. and for what? bertuzzi better perform and better sign or bring a lot in return at the trade deadline. like i said... sinking feeling.

PS - oh yeah, how many shots did louie face tonight laus723???
Then go enjoy you're sinking feeling, I don't care. I don't know how many shots he faced, and I didn't watch the game, was busy helping a friend. Luongo can certainly steal a game at times and shows amazing flashes of brilliance, but I don't care what anyone says who believes his overhyped and overrated play. He lays rebounds directly on guys' stickblades, RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE NET! St. Louis for example just walked right in and scored once. At those times, the defense doesn't have a whole lot of time to block the shot or clear the puck, do they? He's done this numerous times. Even a young Miller has better control. He usually falls asleep when he's not facing a ton of shots, and he let in a goal in under a minute loads last year. Say what you want, but he's the last line of defense, he needs to make those saves at that point in the game.

It's his first game in a huge hockey city, which is now his new team. Of course he brought it. I never said he sucks, and I never said I don't wish him well, I hope he corrects his game long before the fans in Vancouver figure it out. I said he's overrated, I really don't give a rip what you or anyone else thinks. I've thought this before the lockout, and have said things similiar since I've been on this board, it's not new because he's gone.

Oh, and I have to call an overrated goalie the greatest thing since sliced bread to actually know anything about the game? Get over yourself. People have opinions, I, and several others, feel he's overrated and won't miss him. I'm tired of the late goals, I'm tired of the horrible rebound skills, I'm tired of his antics, I'm tired of his falling asleep, and I'm tired of the defense always getting the blame. It certainly is by no means a stellar defense, at all, but who's the star/standout/elite defenseman in Buffalo? Carolina? New Jersey (now)? Heck, even Tampa during their Stanley run didn't have a Niedermeyer type player, and they all managed to do well, adjust their game, or win the Cup at some point. Luongo is just surrounded by excuses.

I'll admit his demands in the offseason got to me, and I didn't like how he thought he could get what he wanted just because he's Luongo, and I'm glad management didn't give in to his every whim, nor could they. Again, i feel he's overrated, right now, and don't think he's worth what he got or what he was demanding of us. It's that simple. I do, however, know the game. Why is hockey the ONLY sport where someone played it when they were 6 and they now think they're the end all to hockey knowledge. You sound moronic and childish, it's just a dumb thing to say. FYI, I have played, and have been a fan for over 20 years, a huge fan for over 10. That enough "hockey knowledge" for you and everyone else asking that stupid question?

, I don't care if he brings the Canucks to a dynasty, I'm not sorry he's gone, nor will I be. I wish we would have gotten more for him, but we didn't. He's gone, get over it. Enjoy watching him in Vancouver.

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Old
10-05-2006, 10:54 PM
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Oh, btw, on the idea that I never said Luong "sucks," my issue is with his demands and the salary he's received. I believe he's overrated and have pointed out why I don't think he's worth what he's asking, and am mostly tired of him keeping management wondering what he was going to do. I don't think he's a cellar dweller, but noone can convince me that, right now, he's worth what he got and what he was asking Florida for. , let's seel the farm by giving him a boatload of cash, and in doing so, have no money to bring in other guys to help this team. He wanted his cake, and he wanted to eat it too, that's not the real world.

Again, I've felt he's overrated for sometime and had no issue with him being dealt, that doen't, by any means, mean I'm bitter...I'm just happy we didn't give it all up for him. Which would have left us with not much left to meet his crazy demands.

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10-05-2006, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Oh, and I have to call an overrated goalie the greatest thing since sliced bread to actually know anything about the game? Get over yourself.
, I don't care if he brings the Canucks to a dynasty, I'm not sorry he's gone, nor will I be. I wish we would have gotten more for him, but we didn't. He's gone, get over it. Enjoy watching him in Vancouver.
great. big laugh. nice. no, you have to acknowledge things as they are on the ice with an understanding of how/why in order show your smarts. ignorance is bliss.


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10-05-2006, 11:00 PM
  #62
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great. big laugh. nice. no, you have to acknowledge things as they are on the ice with an understanding of how/why in order show your smarts. as they say, ignorance is bliss. oh well.
, and yet another dumb remark by, "someone who's played the game." Go back and read my post, apparently you missed something.

*If you intend on going round and round, we may want to take this to PM so others don't need to be involved. Your choice, but I'm off to bed! I have no issue with you, or your opinions, but stop with the dumb "you must not have played before" crap, it's just dumb. Hockey's the only sport where people do this, I just don't get it.

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10-05-2006, 11:11 PM
  #63
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*If you intend on going round and round, we may want to take this to PM so others don't need to be involved.
no interest. we've both stated our case. others can comment. time will tell who's right. no interest in a public or private pissing contest.

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10-05-2006, 11:12 PM
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and enough with these s. jeez. grow up.

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10-05-2006, 11:15 PM
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and enough with these s. jeez. grow up.
... . Take your own advice, especially with your "have you playd hockey" questions.

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10-05-2006, 11:23 PM
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http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=292768&page=2

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10-05-2006, 11:33 PM
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My boy Todd Bertuzzi is like everyother player, he has to back up the city where he plays at and say its the best team yet. I personally believe he has suffured enough from all the beef the media has given him, and he really sounds down to earth and ready to play for us. If he decides not to play for the panthers come january 07 or when ever his contract has expired. I will still be grateful that trade sent roberto packing, and i was able to watch bert play with that panther logo on his chest.

listen to this todd bertuzzi interview by 93 rock


http://93rock.com/janddave/jdpodtoddbertuzzi1006.html


If you do something dumb, how do you exactly suffer? he brought on the media reaction upon himself when he did that. I understand you all disliked him when it all happened but now that he is on your team, the whole "poor guy paid his dues" routine is pretty lame no?

I understand you all disliked him when it all happened but now that he is on your team, the whole "poor guy paid his dues" routine is pretty lame no?


whos this user where did u come from

if my post backing up todd bothers you so much, why even pay attention to it instead of calling it all lame and saying that now since hes in ur team its all okay. Of course his actions where horrible, but you saying that its lame now that he wears are jersey ((( who cares, and i wasn't ever against him cause only he knows what little MOORE did to him, to get that reaction out of him ))))))) we back him up..........why not, this a hockey board, to mess around talk about rumors and what not and on top of it all its the Panthers section, ur the lame one for wasting ur time digesting other peoples words,

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10-06-2006, 08:29 AM
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yeah, yeah. is that supposed to be surprising? or is that related to our discussion here laus723? i don't think so. broduer is great. who'd argue that? if had to choose between the two right now to put a team together for a year or two, i'd probably choose marty. but he's one of the top goalies in the history of the game and he's still very good. if i'm signing someone long term, i'd probably go with louie if the choice was between the two. also, there are some other guys out there that'll be better than louie on a given night. not more than a few though and not on many nights. none of that pertains to my original point, though. to say that luongo sucks or that the team is better off without him is, IMNSHO ludicrous. this club is in a precarious situation right now thanks to this trade. very precarious. i'm hoping we have a great year but if things don't work out with bertuzzi...

let's talk a little more about rebound control though. explain to me exactly where you think louie's weak? is it the fact he doesn't kick shots out to the corner, like we saw raycroft do a couple of times last night? or is his blocker weak? is it point shots? where, specifically, do you think his weakness lies?

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10-06-2006, 12:39 PM
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yeah, yeah. is that supposed to be surprising? or is that related to our discussion here laus723? i don't think so. broduer is great. who'd argue that? if had to choose between the two right now to put a team together for a year or two, i'd probably choose marty. but he's one of the top goalies in the history of the game and he's still very good. if i'm signing someone long term, i'd probably go with louie if the choice was between the two. also, there are some other guys out there that'll be better than louie on a given night. not more than a few though and not on many nights. none of that pertains to my original point, though. to say that luongo sucks or that the team is better off without him is, IMNSHO ludicrous. this club is in a precarious situation right now thanks to this trade. very precarious. i'm hoping we have a great year but if things don't work out with bertuzzi...

let's talk a little more about rebound control though. explain to me exactly where you think louie's weak? is it the fact he doesn't kick shots out to the corner, like we saw raycroft do a couple of times last night? or is his blocker weak? is it point shots? where, specifically, do you think his weakness lies?
It's am overall weakness, as was stated. He's simply not great at any point of that. As I said, the defense gets blamed for not clearing the puck, but Louie tends to lay rebounds on guys' blades. He doesn't always kick the puck, or block, whatever, away from the players in the area. I've seen Miller, Ward, and others do a much better job at this. He also falls asleep at times in goal when he doesn't face a ton of shots. He seems to sometimes do better when he's facing a ton of shots.

Again, I don't think Louie sucks, i think he's a very good goalie with great potential. Where I take issue, and where Luongo has opened himself up to criticism, is where he began demanding to be paid more than every goalie in the league. Be that by the Panthers or not, he's simply not done what Broduer, Turco, Kipper, or even Ward, Miller, Giguere, etc. have accomplished. I don't think it's ALWAYS the defenses fault and certainly don't think he's worth what he got, or what he was asking for from the Panthers. I, therefore, have no issue with him being traded and don't think this team is bad off for it. It forces others to work harder. Luongo hasn't brought this team to places where others have brought their teams, why does he deserve what he was asking for?

I'm not upset with Luongo, i'm simply very glad that the Panthers didn't give him what he asked for and that they didn't let him go at the end of this season for nothing.

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10-06-2006, 02:29 PM
  #70
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It forces others to work harder.
That's it in a nutshell.

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10-06-2006, 04:56 PM
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Despite what he says, I dont see Bertuzzi in a Florida sweater come this summer. I think the move here will rejuvenate his game, and while he probably won't be setting a career year, I think it'll be enough to make him a valuable commodity. As we see yet another playoff year out of our reach at the trade deadline we'll likely deal him when his value is high.

Make no mistake, if he manages to jumpstart his career here it will only be so that he can move into a better market. You can't trust anything any player says to the media. Ever. If he comes out of this trade back on top of his game with the incident far behind him, there's no reason to believe he won't seek his fortunes out of this playoff-less swamp.

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10-06-2006, 06:50 PM
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Then go enjoy you're sinking feeling, I don't care. I don't know how many shots he faced, and I didn't watch the game, was busy helping a friend. Luongo can certainly steal a game at times and shows amazing flashes of brilliance, but I don't care what anyone says who believes his overhyped and overrated play. He lays rebounds directly on guys' stickblades, RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE NET! St. Louis for example just walked right in and scored once. At those times, the defense doesn't have a whole lot of time to block the shot or clear the puck, do they? He's done this numerous times. Even a young Miller has better control. He usually falls asleep when he's not facing a ton of shots, and he let in a goal in under a minute loads last year. Say what you want, but he's the last line of defense, he needs to make those saves at that point in the game.

It's his first game in a huge hockey city, which is now his new team. Of course he brought it. I never said he sucks, and I never said I don't wish him well, I hope he corrects his game long before the fans in Vancouver figure it out. I said he's overrated, I really don't give a rip what you or anyone else thinks. I've thought this before the lockout, and have said things similiar since I've been on this board, it's not new because he's gone.

Oh, and I have to call an overrated goalie the greatest thing since sliced bread to actually know anything about the game? Get over yourself. People have opinions, I, and several others, feel he's overrated and won't miss him. I'm tired of the late goals, I'm tired of the horrible rebound skills, I'm tired of his antics, I'm tired of his falling asleep, and I'm tired of the defense always getting the blame. It certainly is by no means a stellar defense, at all, but who's the star/standout/elite defenseman in Buffalo? Carolina? New Jersey (now)? Heck, even Tampa during their Stanley run didn't have a Niedermeyer type player, and they all managed to do well, adjust their game, or win the Cup at some point. Luongo is just surrounded by excuses.

I'll admit his demands in the offseason got to me, and I didn't like how he thought he could get what he wanted just because he's Luongo, and I'm glad management didn't give in to his every whim, nor could they. Again, i feel he's overrated, right now, and don't think he's worth what he got or what he was demanding of us. It's that simple. I do, however, know the game. Why is hockey the ONLY sport where someone played it when they were 6 and they now think they're the end all to hockey knowledge. You sound moronic and childish, it's just a dumb thing to say. FYI, I have played, and have been a fan for over 20 years, a huge fan for over 10. That enough "hockey knowledge" for you and everyone else asking that stupid question?

, I don't care if he brings the Canucks to a dynasty, I'm not sorry he's gone, nor will I be. I wish we would have gotten more for him, but we didn't. He's gone, get over it. Enjoy watching him in Vancouver.
Not bitter at all.

Your opinion on him and his play is clearly totally blinded by your emotional feeling towards him. You don't like the guy, plain and simple. Get over it, he's one of the most talented goalies around.

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10-06-2006, 07:00 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Luongo hasn't brought this team to places where others have brought their teams, why does he deserve what he was asking for?
Has Jokinen brought us anywhere? What has Bertuzzi done in his career to be considered as money more wisely spent? How much money does Bert make again, you're telling me that keeping Luongo would had kept us from getting improvments in other areas. Give me a break. It would have been only abuut a 1 mil difference if Luongo had signed here. So, they could had gone after Salei as well, gone after another Dman or forward and let Jackman or Semenov walk for example.

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10-07-2006, 10:52 AM
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Not bitter at all.
How can someone be bitter if the player he dislikes is gone and the player we got for him scored this team's first goal of the year while finishing with 4 points (leading the team) while our captain (who you claim is better) is tied for 3rd with 4 other players on the roster? Yes, it's one game...but it's a pretty good start with 81 games to go.

Quote:
Your opinion on him and his play is clearly totally blinded by your emotional feeling towards him. You don't like the guy, plain and simple. Get over it, he's one of the most talented goalies around.
How about your opinion of him...no bias there right?


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10-07-2006, 10:58 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHotChiliPanthers View Post
Has Jokinen brought us anywhere? What has Bertuzzi done in his career to be considered as money more wisely spent? How much money does Bert make again, you're telling me that keeping Luongo would had kept us from getting improvments in other areas. Give me a break. It would have been only abuut a 1 mil difference if Luongo had signed here. So, they could had gone after Salei as well, gone after another Dman or forward and let Jackman or Semenov walk for example.
Well, for starters...Bertuzzi's helped the Canucks reach the playoffs more than once. How many playoff games has Roberto been in again? Bert is making around 5.3 this year while Luongo's average is about 6.75...how is that only a "1 mil" difference? Yes, keeping Luongo at his price tag would have kept us from making improvements on the overall roster...please go look at the Canucks roster for reference. Luongo's getting paid on potential...Bertuzzi is not. He's actually proven something in this league....while having a hell of a lot more to deal with in Vancouver than Luongo ever had in Florida mind you. So, come again?

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