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With Hank pulling a Messier '93, does he get his Cup?

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05-30-2013, 10:02 PM
  #1
Dagoon44
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With Hank pulling a Messier '93, does he get his Cup?

The rangers overachieved under Roger Neilson in the early 90's but the team was divided with the James Patrick , Darren Turcottes of the world backing captain video and the proven winners going to the g.m. Asking for a new coach that plays offense first.. Neil smith went to messier and he asked for a new coach and he got it, the following season messier goes nuts and wins a cup..Could it happen again with Hank with a clear head

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05-30-2013, 10:07 PM
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Kris Chreider
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Well, 94 had Richter who = Lundqvist, but Messier > Stepan, Leetch >>> McDonagh/Staal. I don't think our team can compare to the 94 team.

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05-30-2013, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
The rangers overachieved under Roger Neilson in the early 90's but the team was divided with the James Patrick , Darren Turcottes of the world backing captain video and the proven winners going to the g.m. Asking for a new coach that plays offense first.. Neil smith went to messier and he asked for a new coach and he got it, the following season messier goes nuts and wins a cup..Could it happen again with Hank with a clear head
I don't know how much better Hank can get, he won the Vezina last season and may well again this season. Can't see how he gets better unless you compare to possible Hasek numbers with Buffalo.

I don't think anybody went to Sather. I think based on the exit interviews this move was made. I think this really went sour for Torts when he insulted Sam during an interview (J/K of course)

The Nash deal lost Torts his job IMO. If the Rangers somehow could have made the Nash deal the actual Gaborik deal in the off-season and kept Prust, ect the Rangers might still be in this thing. I think Nash is great but for Torts system, no way.

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05-30-2013, 10:14 PM
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Kris Chreider
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I don't know how much better Hank can get, he won the Vezina last season and may well again this season. Can't see how he gets better unless you compare to possible Hasek numbers with Buffalo.

I don't think anybody went to Sather. I think based on the exit interviews this move was made. I think this really went sour for Torts when he insulted Sam during an interview (J/K of course)

The Nash deal lost Torts his job IMO. If the Rangers somehow could have made the Nash deal the actual Gaborik deal in the off-season and kept Prust, ect the Rangers might still be in this thing. I think Nash is great but for Torts system, no way.
Nash is a better fit than Gaborik. Nash, while being a softie for a guy his size, still has size and some grit. He can also PK occasionally, better than Gaborik ever could.

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05-30-2013, 10:32 PM
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No. That team was alegend. This one not so much right now

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05-30-2013, 10:47 PM
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nyrpassion
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I don't think OP mean literally comparing the current team to the '94 team, but rather that it was Messier that "got rid" of Ron Smith (i think) a year before winning the Cup, and Lundqvist "got rid" of Torts.

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05-30-2013, 10:50 PM
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As much as people continue to try and draw them, there are zero parallels between 1994 and now.

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05-30-2013, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
As much as people continue to try and draw them, there are zero parallels between 1994 and now.
Pretty much.

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05-30-2013, 10:53 PM
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As much as people continue to try and draw them, there are zero parallels between 1994 and now.
You're gonna look so silly when they win the cup next year!!


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05-30-2013, 10:56 PM
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You're gonna look so silly when they win the cup next year!!

And if they do win it next year of course people will bring it up. Only in New York are winning a Cup and winning another 20 years later even remotely related

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05-30-2013, 11:00 PM
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Did Hank really get rid of Torts though? We probably will never find out for sure.

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05-30-2013, 11:02 PM
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And if they do win it next year of course people will bring it up. Only in New York are winning a Cup and winning another 20 years later even remotely related
We need our connections!

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05-30-2013, 11:04 PM
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We need our connections!
Do you really want players selling connections to precious young players?

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05-30-2013, 11:18 PM
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Do you really want players selling connections to precious young players?
Only if they remember to think about the families

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05-30-2013, 11:39 PM
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I wonder what year we stop comparing everything to 1994? Maybe in another 20 years......

This seasons scenario is nothing like 94. This wasn't a dressing room divided. This sounds like a unified dressing room.

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05-31-2013, 01:01 AM
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Messier stunk from the Pens series throughout the 1993 season, and then he blamed it all on his teammates and the coach.

The Rangers crumpled under the pressure from 1992. Leetch missing 2/3 of the season didnt help.

The Rangers won in 1994 because they had no goalie controvery, Leetch made a bigger commitent to defense, and they made the larmer trade.

The Larmer trade changed the season around. They were going nowhere before that trade.

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05-31-2013, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
As much as people continue to try and draw them, there are zero parallels between 1994 and now.
I'm saving this quote for McDonagh's conn smythe.

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05-31-2013, 04:20 AM
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Well, 94 had Richter who = Lundqvist, but Messier > Stepan, Leetch >>> McDonagh/Staal. I don't think our team can compare to the 94 team.
But the top echelon of 2013 isn't remote to the top echelon of 1994.

I like the LAK for example. I've seen them play quite alot likely, like I am sure everyone else have. Doesn't there defense look pretty darn good?

But, they have played following ranked offensive teams in this leauge: 15th, 18th, 21th, 17th and 24th.

I think Doughty is a phenomenal D, and while I hold Chara and Karlsson really high, he is the best in the game. But he is only out there around 25 minutes per game. Is Scuderi, Voynov, Regehr and co elite D's? No, not even remotely Voynov is still getting there, and overall just isn't on a diffrent planet than say MDZ. Scuderi is you typical decent NHL D. Regher is no star, but solid. And so forth.

Leetch and Zubov was Karlsson quality. Lowe was better than LAK's nr 2 D. Beuke was Lucic on D. Karpatosev was strong and Wells and Lidster very competent.

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05-31-2013, 06:20 AM
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Dagoon, to answer your question directly, no. I say no is because I don't believe this Rangers squad, as currently constructed, is a coaching change away from winning the Stanley Cup.

I'm guilty of microanalyzing Lundqvist's career playoff record, but the reality is that no matter how great you are you cannot win the Stanley Cup by yourself. Gretzky had Kurri, Coffey, Anderson, and Messier. Hasek, one of the greatest of all time, couldn't win a Cup until he went to that great Detroit team with Yzerman, Shanahan, Hull, Federov.

What future Hall of Famers is Lundqvist working with right now? He's getting the Cujo treatment.

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05-31-2013, 06:25 AM
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Dagoon, to answer your question directly, no. I say no is because I don't believe this Rangers squad, as currently constructed, is a coaching change away from winning the Stanley Cup.

I'm guilty of microanalyzing Lundqvist's career playoff record, but the reality is that no matter how great you are you cannot win the Stanley Cup by yourself. Gretzky had Kurri, Coffey, Anderson, and Messier. Hasek, one of the greatest of all time, couldn't win a Cup until he went to that great Detroit team with Yzerman, Shanahan, Hull, Federov.

What future Hall of Famers is Lundqvist working with right now? He's getting the Cujo treatment.
Chris Kreider?

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05-31-2013, 07:27 AM
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I wish I could pull a Messier'93 (tm) on my boss, he sucks.

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05-31-2013, 09:26 AM
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I don't think OP mean literally comparing the current team to the '94 team, but rather that it was Messier that "got rid" of Ron Smith (i think) a year before winning the Cup, and Lundqvist "got rid" of Torts.
Ron Smith was the interim coach after Roger Nielsen.. He was never expected to stay long... Messier's beef was with Roger Nielsen.

Nielsen was a pioneer in using video to analyze the game, and despite coaching a very good team in 1992 (Some say it was even better than '94), Messier hated him. That '92 team also had goal scoring machine Mike Gartner, emerging rookies Tony Amonte and Doug Weight, and James Patrick, a very capable #2 PP QB. It also had easily the best 1-2 goalie combo in the league in Richter and Vanbiesbrouck. The following year they added Kovalev... That '93 season was a huuuuuuuuge disappointment based on how good they were the year before. Leetch having 2 major injuries probably didn't help... The thought process then was that the team underachieved greatly, and Mike Keenan was hired before the '93 playoffs even ended.

Keenan helped make the team tougher, and that '94 team literally beat the snot out of everyone. (Of course, he benched Leetch a few times, messed with Healy/Richter a few times, and was begged by Messier to stop being such a d-bag)




All that being said, it seems that while Torts was the perfect coach for the 2012 team, he couldn't manage the new talent, nor could he manage his ego in thinking that "just because I had success last year means I don't have to change this year, despite the glaring fact that the roster is completely different"

Calling out players didn't help either. I think Lundqvist is too nice to ever have said "He needs to go". I believe like most of the players (that matter anyway), Lundqvist suggested the team might be better off without him...

Let's just hope Lundqvist and his possible co-conspirators can do what Messier did in '94, which is to say, talk the talk then walk the ******* walk.

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05-31-2013, 09:32 AM
  #23
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Messier stunk from the Pens series throughout the 1993 season, and then he blamed it all on his teammates and the coach.

The Rangers crumpled under the pressure from 1992. Leetch missing 2/3 of the season didnt help.

The Rangers won in 1994 because they had no goalie controvery, Leetch made a bigger commitent to defense, and they made the larmer trade.

The Larmer trade changed the season around. They were going nowhere before that trade.
The sad thing, for those of us who remember, is that the Pens series in '92 slipped away when Ron Francis scored from the moon. That horrifying goal doesn't go in, the Rangers win that series easily.... Remember when Graves slashed Lemieux so bad he broke his arm? Ahh the good ole days.

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05-31-2013, 09:56 AM
  #24
GWOW
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Originally Posted by Baumer582 View Post
The sad thing, for those of us who remember, is that the Pens series in '92 slipped away when Ron Francis scored from the moon. That horrifying goal doesn't go in, the Rangers win that series easily.... Remember when Graves slashed Lemieux so bad he broke his arm? Ahh the good ole days.
Still, Francis goal or not, Messier was a disaster that series. Turnover after turnover, no look drop passes, lazt backchecking.

Messier and Leetch were both terrible that series. That series, the only guys who showed up were bottom line guys like Broten, King, Nemchinov.

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05-31-2013, 10:08 AM
  #25
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With Richards, Gaborik, and the addition of Nash, I thought we finally had enough top 3 talent, along with a rookie scorer - Krieder (Kovalev ) for the x factor.

Losing Gaborik and Richards... we simply don't have enough top talent. We have to look at options to bring in another top scorer. We have to get Kreider contributing on the offense.

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