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2013-14 Flyers Overhaul Part II

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05-30-2013, 04:18 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Plus, the Flyers don't have the luxury of simply dealing off a top minutes eater like Coburn, given the state of defensive potentials and prospects. I'm of the same mind about finding a good offensively minded Dman to pair with him.
Gustafsson's game is so eerily similar to Timonen's that if you don't automatically pair him with Coburn at the start of next season (barring unforeseen events) you're an absolute moron.

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05-30-2013, 10:28 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
At $4.5 Killion per season, that's lead pairing money. That's not complimentary money. Coburn is simply a luxury that this team can't afford. I could care less about the limited he plays because he just can't be relied upon to make constantly good decisions when he's on the ice. And honestly, you'd expect that after being paired with guys like Jason Smith, Derian Hatcher, and Kimmo Timonen, that some hockey sense would rub off on him, but he just hasn't been able to pull it together. I don't understand how one guy continually gets gets a pass. He's got to go and the sooner, the better.
I agree Coburn is extra now. Schenn has taken his spot, IMHO.
Coburn is not the offensive defenseman this team needs.
He is simply a overpaid defensive defenseman.
Getting another defensive defenseman for the 3rd pairing is alot cheaper
than keeping Coburn.
We can promote from within or sign a guy for a lot less salary cap.
We need to think about upgrading the offensive puck moving and PP
abilties of the defense.

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05-31-2013, 01:02 AM
  #178
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People get frustrated with Coburn because of what he has the tools to be but isn't. If you get past that and just take him for what he is, it's still a pretty good hockey player. If they do trade Coburn, I'd like to see what you all think of him and the guy that ends of having to play his minutes.

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05-31-2013, 08:09 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Gustafsson's game is so eerily similar to Timonen's that if you don't automatically pair him with Coburn at the start of next season (barring unforeseen events) you're an absolute moron.
I'm glad to read your open-mindedness and flexibility about Gustafsson's potential place in the roster, Chris. Despite our collective (with some outliers) frustration with Coburn's inability to reach that next level of talent which we know is in that 6'5" frame he has to be projected as a member of the top-line pair. Schenn - Timonen is better rounded, but I am of the mind that Timonen's minutes have to be protected with his age. Projecting Gustafsson as the other member of the top line, to me, is premature. He performed very well in the IIHF tournament, so I'm very optimistic. I just want to keep my foot on the optimism brake, though.

You'd be justified in arguing if not Gustafsson, then who? I don't like the Coburn - Grossmann pairing as "top", since neither has the puck-moving component that I believe needs to be ensured for each pairing. Meszaros could, but I don't hold out hope he can remain healthy, particularly if called upon to log big minutes; at this point I think his $4 mil cap hit could be better used elsewhere. No one from the Phantoms has made a case for this slot.

This top-pairing hole is the most glaring at present for off-season consideration. We've collectively posted this to death. I'm very interested (in the spectrum of eager anticipation to the gut-churning grip of fear) to see how the Flyers FO handles it.

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05-31-2013, 09:47 AM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
This top-pairing hole is the most glaring at present for off-season consideration. We've collectively posted this to death. I'm very interested (in the spectrum of eager anticipation to the gut-churning grip of fear) to see how the Flyers FO handles it.
They'll handle it by drafting another forward in the first round and then sign a guy like Ron Hainsey and say "well, Hainsey's a big guy who can skate and really became a solid all-around defender while in Atlanta/Winnipeg. We've had him on our radar for a few years and feel he'll be a great addition to our defense."

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05-31-2013, 11:32 AM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
They'll handle it by drafting another forward in the first round and then sign a guy like Ron Hainsey and say "well, Hainsey's a big guy who can skate and really became a solid all-around defender while in Atlanta/Winnipeg. We've had him on our radar for a few years and feel he'll be a great addition to our defense."
ha.
Holmgren probably has this speech down and all he has to do is fill in the players name.

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05-31-2013, 12:56 PM
  #182
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Paul Holmgren's zany madlibs. ________ has been on our radar for a few years. _______ brings _______, _______, and ________ to the organization. We are ________ to have him and ________ ________ to getting him on the ice.

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05-31-2013, 01:11 PM
  #183
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Paul Holmgren's zany madlibs. Hasek has been on our radar for a few years. Dominik Hasek brings Experience, Skill, and A Slinky Spine to the organization. We are Gruntled to have him and Joyfully Impatient to getting him on the ice.
Could be a fun game.

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05-31-2013, 05:00 PM
  #184
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This has the makings of a Draft Day Drinking Game.

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05-31-2013, 06:08 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
They'll handle it by drafting another forward in the first round and then sign a guy like Ron Hainsey and say "well, Hainsey's a big guy who can skate and really became a solid all-around defender while in Atlanta/Winnipeg. We've had him on our radar for a few years and feel he'll be a great addition to our defense."
LOL.

I gave up drinking due to fun of the hangovers afterward.
But, if he picks another forward.
And signs another over priced older defenseman.
I may have to go off the wagon.

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05-31-2013, 07:41 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
This top-pairing hole is the most glaring at present for off-season consideration. We've collectively posted this to death. I'm very interested (in the spectrum of eager anticipation to the gut-churning grip of fear) to see how the Flyers FO handles it.
I wouldn't expect this to change this offseason.

I certainly do NOT want to give up the assets in a trade that this would cost to acquire a young(ish) guy. Anyone they draft cannot be expected to be the next season solution.

Our best option is a 1 yr, old man vet signing, and kick the can down the road.

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05-31-2013, 08:11 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
Our best option is a 1 yr, old man vet signing, and kick the can down the road.
I think the Flyers will likely do exactly what they did last season. Swing for the fences and settle if they miss while drafting defensemen in high number.

Basically the "Throw a bunch of crap on the wall and see what sticks method."

I seriously would not be surprised to see them toss out an offer sheet on Pietrangelo, Shattie, or even a Kesler-esque offer sheet for Rundblad (not too huge, but annoying enough that a team might make a trade). I expect that they'll be involved in the RFA hunt since there is almost no downside.

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05-31-2013, 08:35 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
I think the Flyers will likely do exactly what they did last season. Swing for the fences and settle if they miss while drafting defensemen in high number.

Basically the "Throw a bunch of crap on the wall and see what sticks method."

I seriously would not be surprised to see them toss out an offer sheet on Pietrangelo, Shattie, or even a Kesler-esque offer sheet for Rundblad (not too huge, but annoying enough that a team might make a trade). I expect that they'll be involved in the RFA hunt since there is almost no downside.
I don't even think there are really fences to swing at this year.

I don't think any of these guys will get an offer that their original team won't match. Our leverage was really tossed out with the max length cap.

The Weber thing was fun, but in many ways I'm glad it didn't go through.

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05-31-2013, 09:01 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
Paul Holmgren's zany madlibs. Hodor has been on our radar for a few years. Hodor brings Hodor, Hodor, and Hodor to the organization. We are Hodor to have him and Hodor Hodor to getting him on the ice.

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05-31-2013, 09:08 PM
  #190
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Seems right.

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05-31-2013, 10:59 PM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
I think the Flyers will likely do exactly what they did last season. Swing for the fences and settle if they miss while drafting defensemen in high number.

Basically the "Throw a bunch of crap on the wall and see what sticks method."

I seriously would not be surprised to see them toss out an offer sheet on Pietrangelo, Shattie, or even a Kesler-esque offer sheet for Rundblad (not too huge, but annoying enough that a team might make a trade). I expect that they'll be involved in the RFA hunt since there is almost no downside.
Don't forget about McDonagh. No way the Rangers would let him walk to a division rival but a 5+ cap hit is probably the last thing they need with Lundqvist's next contract around the corner.

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06-01-2013, 06:06 AM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Gustafsson's game is so eerily similar to Timonen's that if you don't automatically pair him with Coburn at the start of next season (barring unforeseen events) you're an absolute moron.
Gus shouldn't be compared to Kimmo. Kimmo is one of the smartest players on the Flyers and in the league. If anything I would say Gus is a poor mans Letang. He isn't as good as him at anything out there but they have the same positives and negatives. Gus would be best served playing with Grossmann on the third pairing.

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06-01-2013, 07:06 AM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
I think the Flyers will likely do exactly what they did last season. Swing for the fences and settle if they miss while drafting defensemen in high number.

Basically the "Throw a bunch of crap on the wall and see what sticks method."

I seriously would not be surprised to see them toss out an offer sheet on Pietrangelo, Shattie, or even a Kesler-esque offer sheet for Rundblad (not too huge, but annoying enough that a team might make a trade). I expect that they'll be involved in the RFA hunt since there is almost no downside.

While I am willing to consider the RFA route, I would not expect RFA route to be productive.
No UFA are available that I would consider valuable enough to sign long term.

Hoping to find anything more than a Matt Carle-like PMD, by just drafting a bunch
of guys in rounds 2-7 is a very poor method of solving this problem.
If that is good enough plan then Holmer should continue using this misguided drafting strategy.

Timmo is only here for one more season, so that leaves us Gus as our #1 PMD for 2015.
IMHO, this defense needs more than one new offensive PMD defenseman.

My defensive overhaul wish list includes 2 NHL ready PMD.
So, the defense can begin to develop as a unit, rather than add one piece
this year and then another for Timmonen next year.

My backup plan would consist of trading for at least 1 PMD, and drafting a possible #1 defenseman first.
Not interested in defense-first defenseman, those are easy to find.
My draftee would need to have offensive ability to function as a PMD at the NHL level.

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06-01-2013, 01:46 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
While I am willing to consider the RFA route, I would not expect RFA route to be productive.
No UFA are available that I would consider valuable enough to sign long term.

Hoping to find anything more than a Matt Carle-like PMD, by just drafting a bunch
of guys in rounds 2-7 is a very poor method of solving this problem.
If that is good enough plan then Holmer should continue using this misguided drafting strategy.

Timmo is only here for one more season, so that leaves us Gus as our #1 PMD for 2015.
IMHO, this defense needs more than one new offensive PMD defenseman.

My defensive overhaul wish list includes 2 NHL ready PMD.
So, the defense can begin to develop as a unit, rather than add one piece
this year and then another for Timmonen next year.

My backup plan would consist of trading for at least 1 PMD, and drafting a possible #1 defenseman first.
Not interested in defense-first defenseman, those are easy to find.
My draftee would need to have offensive ability to function as a PMD at the NHL level.

Omg...we know. You've said the same thing about a pmd for your past 8 posts. everybody here knows this. We know we know we know man. You're not offering anything new information besides "pmd blah blah blah". And trading Coburn just to trade him to open a spot is a bad idea. You find a pmd to play with him.

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06-01-2013, 02:22 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by TheLegendkiller View Post
Omg...we know. You've said the same thing about a pmd for your past 8 posts. everybody here knows this. We know we know we know man. You're not offering anything new information besides "pmd blah blah blah". And trading Coburn just to trade him to open a spot is a bad idea. You find a pmd to play with him.
I think you mean 79 posts.

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06-01-2013, 09:56 PM
  #196
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Gus shouldn't be compared to Kimmo. Kimmo is one of the smartest players on the Flyers and in the league. If anything I would say Gus is a poor mans Letang. He isn't as good as him at anything out there but they have the same positives and negatives. Gus would be best served playing with Grossmann on the third pairing.
Lets' see him be a poor man's John Michael Liles first.

I think Coburn is what he is and comes back and has a solid season. More importantly I think Mez comes back in a contract year and has a monster season which should allow him, Schenn, Coburn and Gus to take some of Kimmo's minutes away.

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06-01-2013, 10:53 PM
  #197
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I think you mean 79 posts.
Yes, it's been 'Weeks of Redundancy' around here.....

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06-01-2013, 11:34 PM
  #198
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Would anyone be open to shifting G back to his natural postilion, RW? He can still take faceoffs then just shift over. It would allow the team to then slot Schenn on the top line center spot and move Couts up to 2nd line center and give him more offensive chances.

Hartnell-Schenn-Giroux, 2: Simmonds-Couts-Voracek, 3:Talbot-Laughton-Read, 4: Rinaldo-Hall-McGinn.... Thoughts?

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06-02-2013, 12:04 AM
  #199
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Right now, I'd honestly take either Nurse or Pulock with the 11th overall depending on who's there, and give them their 9 game trial at the NHL level with someone who is solid positionally and see how they fare...

Timonen-Schenn
Gustafsson-Coburn
Pulock/Nurse-Grossmann

If they end up needing to go back to juniors after their performance within that time, maybe then you trade ~a 2nd for a guy like Demers or McBain for the 3rd pairing.
This is what I'd do. It's not a great defense but it should be better than what we had this year. The only caviot to this is that Gus HAS to be able to lead the 2nd pairing.

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06-02-2013, 12:46 AM
  #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOREacek View Post
Would anyone be open to shifting G back to his natural postilion, RW? He can still take faceoffs then just shift over. It would allow the team to then slot Schenn on the top line center spot and move Couts up to 2nd line center and give him more offensive chances.

Hartnell-Schenn-Giroux, 2: Simmonds-Couts-Voracek, 3:Talbot-Laughton-Read, 4: Rinaldo-Hall-McGinn.... Thoughts?
I would want to leave Giroux in the middle because he will be able to get the puck more.

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