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Trade value of Andrei Markov

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Old
05-31-2013, 09:52 AM
  #76
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by habsfan92 View Post
If Markov is moved, then PK's points are gonna take a hit, and the powerplay is gonna drop considerably. For a team that relies on a pp to generate offence, that is just a dumb move. Next year will be the telling point to see if he can regain his mobility, as that was the only really issue I saw. Hockey sense-wise, he is second to no-one on this team. The way he steps up to intercept passes as the other team comes up the ice, no one else on this team can do. If he doesn't recover his mobility, he is still better offensively & defensively) than Gorges, Diaz, Bouillion, and any other guy you want to throw in there. No one moves the puck up like he does. So if you want to move him, good luck finding someone who can do everything he does. It will be difficult, and it will cost us quite a bit.
I wouldn't say the Habs "rely on the PP to generate offense" but it's always nice to have a good PP. Last year the team was good 5 on 5.

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05-31-2013, 10:07 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I wouldn't say the Habs "rely on the PP to generate offense" but it's always nice to have a good PP. Last year the team was good 5 on 5.
We weren't just good at ES, we finished 6th best. Before our end of season slump we were top 2.

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05-31-2013, 10:57 AM
  #78
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And having an effective power play helped generate momentum and confidence, which fed the even strength production. It does that you know. Just like killing of penalties well gives the team confidence. I am sure that the even strength production would have suffered had the pp been poor.

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05-31-2013, 11:02 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
A first for Markov? Some of you are dreaming in a lot more colors than I'm used to. He has slowed down enough to have a majority of teams show no interest whatsoever imho. If there is any bidding war on a possible deadline trade look for the kind of return Clowe got at best.

In this off season, forget it, his value is 0 or close to it.
Kyle Quincey went for a first rounder to Detroit. You really think Markov could not fetch the Habs a late-round first pick? Okay then.

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05-31-2013, 12:39 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by ForgivemePrice View Post
What do you think Markov can give us? Pick? A good first or second line forward? For which player do you think it will be a fair value to trade him for?

I have my doubt he's in condition to play a full season and playoff at 100% strenght. We all saw him being tired by the end of the season and in the playoff, and im just hoping hes not on his decline.

But before this happen, what do you think he's worth? Bergevin probably saw that and might consider trading him? We dunno. But i wouldnt be surprised.
Markov might retire rather than consent to being traded. In any event I don't think he'll play after this coming season.

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05-31-2013, 01:18 PM
  #81
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This is a good thread to weed out to bandwagon emotional 'fans' to the one that can look at the game properly.

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05-31-2013, 01:31 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Markov might retire rather than consent to being traded. In any event I don't think he'll play after this coming season.
Yes I can see the first scenario. But no way is he retiring after this season. That's a mix of wishful think and flatout crazy thinking. Like a +.5 ppg dman's gonna retire. WITH a contract... Come on...

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Old
05-31-2013, 01:37 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Hullois View Post
I wonder if all your 45,000 posts are bad like this one.

Markov played a lot more than most players in the league this season, and it was a condensed season, for a guy in his first year back from a major injury, and still he was our #1D for the first month of the season and kept our PP working all season long. All that while losing his D partner a month from the playoffs.

I hope he retires a Hab
That's the difference between you and me.

I think with my brain, you think with your heart.

Markov was exposed last season. He is now only effective as a power play specialist. Markov gave us a lot of good years, but he is easily replaceable now.

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05-31-2013, 01:52 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
That's the difference between you and me.

I think with my brain, you think with your heart.

Markov was exposed last season. He is now only effective as a power play specialist. Markov gave us a lot of good years, but he is easily replaceable now.
OMG you think with your heart and not your brain.

Does this make any sense to you: Played 24 games in less than 3 months in the KHL, then played 48 games in about 3 months in the NHL, all while haven't played a single game on any ice surface for about 24 months before?

I call this year a "bounce-back" year for AM and considering he was top 5 among defenseman in points, 1st in PPG, 2nd in PPP (behind Subban), 1st in GWG, etc. i'll take the defensive lapses THIS SEASON any day. Do you know how hard it is to find a PMD with vision and skill like Andrei's? EXTREMELY HARD. Wake up and smell the poutines. AM is approaching back to where he was before he got injured (05-09 I believe 2-time NHL All-Star Defenseman that averaged probably around 50ish points over 4 seasons). To say he's lost a step and is not good defensively based on one 48-game season after spending 2 seasons essentially in physiotherapy/workout room/practice ice sounds absolutely insane to me given how he performed offensively this year.

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05-31-2013, 02:20 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Probably similar to what Kaberle was traded for when the Bruins acquired him. Maybe even less.
A first-rounder + a prospect (I don't know whether Colborne was a reclamation project from the Leafs' standpoint or not)? Who would pay that much for Markov?

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05-31-2013, 02:51 PM
  #86
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Don't trade Markov, keep him until he retires. He started his career here let him end it here. Loved watching the Habs and always seeing him every year, always with the team. Come on guys, just look at this Beast.



Bring Back Souray!!

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05-31-2013, 03:22 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
That's the difference between you and me.

I think with my brain, you think with your heart.

Markov was exposed last season. He is now only effective as a power play specialist. Markov gave us a lot of good years, but he is easily replaceable now.
Follow your words then. A level headed person using his brain would wait before passing judgment.
Markov missed so much hockey, not sure what you actually expected of him. I'm very pleased with Markov's performance over the year. He slowed down at the end just as anybody his age would after playing so little the past few years and being overused earlier in the year, in a shortened season with a tighter schedule.
You realize it's 48 games over 99days right?

So maybe you should wait until next season before making such bold assumptions.
Then again, you've never evaluated defensemen well.

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05-31-2013, 03:30 PM
  #88
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Trading Markov at the draft would be a mistake, Why? Because he's worth more at the trading deadline when his cap hit is 1/3 and desperate teams compete and overbid.

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Old
05-31-2013, 04:29 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
That's the difference between you and me.

I think with my brain, you think with your heart.

Markov was exposed last season. He is now only effective as a power play specialist. Markov gave us a lot of good years, but he is easily replaceable now.
In the context of the top defenders in the world, Markov is a PP specialist.

In the context of regular NHL players, Markov is a PP god who also is also a top 4 defenseman. The reasonable standard for a top 4 rather than a star defenseman is if you put him with another non-star top 4 defenseman do the form a good pairing. Markov-Emelin was said pairing, playing a fairly steady shutdown role.

What we saw late in the year is that Markov is no longer a defender that you can play with a scrub like Komisarek or O'Byrne in a top 4 role and expect good results, as we saw when Emelin was swapped out for Drewiskie and Boullion. Markov-Subban though, was absolutely dominant together, far more so than Gorges-Subban, which shows how Markov is still better than Gorges. And Gorges very much falls into the catagory of top 4 defender.

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05-31-2013, 06:54 PM
  #90
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So much wrong in this thread.

Markov is still easily capable of top 4 defensive assignment and he's still a top PPQB in this league. Given the length, his contract is not a problem at all either.

Obviously, the best moment to gather the highest return would be at the deadline, because it would allow cup contenders to add his contract with more ease.

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05-31-2013, 07:12 PM
  #91
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Hes not the general anymore thats for sure, but I think a few things factor in to this.
1. conditioning, just a guess, but the older you get the more ramped up your workout routine needs to be to stay competitive. I feel if Markov doesn't ramp it up he will be in slow decline.
2. Leaning a bit to hard on him in his first season back from numerous injuries, agree with another, earlier poster, should be playing 20min a game not 30
3. Weaker team that lacked depth on D after Emelin injury, I think exposed Markov a bit and he just couldn't hack the extra minutes or make up for weak defense partners. ie. because of points 1 and 2.

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05-31-2013, 11:26 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Probably similar to what Kaberle was traded for when the Bruins acquired him. Maybe even less.
Probably less, but not by much

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Old
06-01-2013, 12:08 AM
  #93
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People overstate the decline, IMO. He's still easily able to be a quality second pairing D on top of a powerplay specialist.

Plus, he has a limited NTC so that diminish his trading value and makes keeping him a no brainer.

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Old
06-01-2013, 12:46 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
In the context of the top defenders in the world, Markov is a PP specialist.

In the context of regular NHL players, Markov is a PP god who also is also a top 4 defenseman. The reasonable standard for a top 4 rather than a star defenseman is if you put him with another non-star top 4 defenseman do the form a good pairing. Markov-Emelin was said pairing, playing a fairly steady shutdown role.

What we saw late in the year is that Markov is no longer a defender that you can play with a scrub like Komisarek or O'Byrne in a top 4 role and expect good results, as we saw when Emelin was swapped out for Drewiskie and Boullion. Markov-Subban though, was absolutely dominant together, far more so than Gorges-Subban, which shows how Markov is still better than Gorges. And Gorges very much falls into the catagory of top 4 defender.
Debatable imo. I never found him to be top 4 worthy, got a little hype riding shotgun with PK. I think the sooner we replace him the better. He's a black hole back there. Markov with no knees is a better dman, and I think he'll be better up until the day he retires.

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06-01-2013, 12:58 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
agreed Nathan is his replacement with sick skills

Markov is nowhere what the was , folks he was gassed out at 50 games and his d was below average with his bad plus - rating , even though I m not a huge fan of this rating but he was exposed quite often this season

I dont want to pay him for a declining asset beyond his current deal
A few factors here though:

1. No serious hockey and being out of game shape for the better part of three years.
2. Recovering from surgery, not 100% sure of his limitations.
3. Therrien's insistence on playing him 25minutes a night when he had a horse back there who can play those minutes for the next 10 years.
4. First year back full-time was a condensed schedule, not going to be easy for anyone who's been out of action for so long.
5. Used too much and too often in the wrong situations. Killing penalties was never his specialty, although adequate, this job belonged to PK as well.

I expect a better Markov next year, and many are underestimating the impact solid puck movers have on the transition game, it's no fluke that he came back and our 5 vs5 was near tops in the league. Our record with/without markov speaks for itself, that trend was evident again this season.

The beginning of the year Markov was hot because he was playing in KHL and had a pre-season that many others didn't have. He was already in form, but as the year went on he wore down a bit. I'll give him a pass this year for that, his skill hadn't diminished. His quick stick/puck movement/vision/controlling the PP are still elite, he just had a lot working against him this year. He'll never be top 10 in the league again imo, but will still earn his cap hit.

There are 20 year olds who would have struggled with stamina this year if they went through what Markov has gone through. Therrien didn't seem to care though.

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Old
06-01-2013, 02:19 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Debatable imo. I never found him to be top 4 worthy, got a little hype riding shotgun with PK. I think the sooner we replace him the better. He's a black hole back there. Markov with no knees is a better dman, and I think he'll be better up until the day he retires.
If Gorges isn't a top 4 by your standards, then I think you over-estimate the average quality of the best 4 defensemen on a typical team. Look at the 3rd or 4th guy on each team, not all that many are more effective than Gorges.

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06-01-2013, 03:18 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Follow your words then. A level headed person using his brain would wait before passing judgment.
Markov missed so much hockey, not sure what you actually expected of him. I'm very pleased with Markov's performance over the year. He slowed down at the end just as anybody his age would after playing so little the past few years and being overused earlier in the year, in a shortened season with a tighter schedule.
You realize it's 48 games over 99days right?

So maybe you should wait until next season before making such bold assumptions.
Then again, you've never evaluated defensemen well.
I've always evaluated our dmen well. I do not support trading Markov for nothing. However there are better dmen on the market for lesser cap hits right now who are probably worth very little (Bieksa comes to mind). The fact is, Markov is making number 1 money and is performing like a 4/5 dman. That equals pretty much no trade value. Any team that has Markov as a top pairing dman is going nowhere and its time we accept that. Subban right now is better than Markov ever was, and we just simply can't have a guy who can't kill penalties and is a liability 5 on 5 eating up almost 6 million in cap space.

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06-01-2013, 10:13 AM
  #98
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I'm a big belieber (lol) that talent doesn't develop in a vaccum so trading markov, for now at least, is a nono.

I think the importance of good, talented, hard-working veterans on a team is understated on this board

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06-01-2013, 11:00 AM
  #99
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Markov still has some game but he is playing too many minutes for his own good...

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06-01-2013, 12:22 PM
  #100
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two 2nd rounders?

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