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2013 NHL Draft Talk Part 4: Flyers own the 11th overall pick

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06-01-2013, 12:23 AM
  #951
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If you're bored, TSN's Combine Special
http://video.tsn.ca/videohub.aspx?dl...38272/clip/495

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06-01-2013, 03:13 AM
  #952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
It just occurred to me that Ristolainen will probably have to stay overseas no matter what because of military service.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I wonder if they make exceptions on the military service for athletes. I think US Army/Navy/Air Force allows players to go right into the NFL or NBA if they are drafted and they just defer their military service until after their careers or something.
You have little to nothing to worry about. He'll be there for maybe 30 days and can train on many of those. Couple of weeks for on-ice training. It's not Navy Seal stuff or anything like that.

Finns have 'military' for very good athletes and they get it easier than others. It won't prevent him from playing in NHL. One basketball player that got big contract from Slovenia was there for like a week.

Anyway, he shouldn't be in NHL for at least two years imo so moot point anyway.



Koivu was there in 2011. Didn't seem to hurt him.

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06-01-2013, 03:28 AM
  #953
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Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
Basically unless you are drafting in the top 10, it is a crap shoot.
This is how I look at the D vs F argument. In general look at most your top scorers, a good number of them(like 50%) are top 3 picks and most your top forwards are drafted in the first round. On the flip side with defense, good defensemen get picked all over the place.

It's a basic case that if you want to improve your top end forwards chances are it isn't happening round 2+ but if you want to improve your defense(you can probably add goaltending as well to the list) it's much easier finding gems in later rounds.

In the case of Philly I don't think finding that top end forward is a big need for them so they could easily go BPA(which good chance at 11 will be a defenseman). I think by time Philly picks the best options on the board are going to be Centers and Defensemen and given the Flyers already have Giroux, Schenn and Coutier at C, it's not that pressing of a need

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06-01-2013, 07:17 AM
  #954
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Some #1 defensemen are found in other rounds, but that is just luck.
Or an eye for untapped talent, the Flyers have not shown the
ability to detect.

There is a reason you pick a defenseman in the first round.
He has elite skills, skills that you hope will translate into a #1.

Why we need a defenseman pick at #11
1) Timmonen is retiring after next season.
2) Poor defensive play this year.


Last edited by DecadesofFutility: 06-01-2013 at 07:35 AM.
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06-01-2013, 07:33 AM
  #955
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Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
Basically unless you are drafting in the top 10, it is a crap shoot.
I do not need an All-Star for my 1st round defenseman pick to be successful.
What I do need is good PMD, with elite skills that may become
a #1 defenseman.

This thinking that you must draft your defenseman in the top #10
to be a successful pick is bogus.
It is just an excuse for why we pick a center each year.
The Flyers just feel more comfortable that a center will develop more quickly.

Any defenseman picked needs to be one of the top 4-5 defensive prospects available
to be worth picking in the top 15 picks of the draft.

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06-01-2013, 09:44 AM
  #956
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I strongly believe everyone knows you want to draft a defenseman with the Flyers first round pick. I believe 70 of those 76 post have made that statement. It might even be all of them.

Flyers don't believe the centers will develop quicker either, they have the best potential they feel. Everyone is so high on Dougie Hamilton, but lets see the kid play a full 82 and take it from there. We haven't seen fan bases or others tout a rookie before on here....... Hmmm still waiting for Krieder to become an elite goal scorer he was supposed to be this year. Now the Ranger fans are throwing him in deals left and right. We are the most reactionary pplace to discuss hockey on the internet, I trust whoever the Flyers take in the first round, defenseman or not. I am not a pro scout, so their opinion is much more valued than any of us. Last year is the perfect example, Laughton over Maataa. Everyone was so mad at that pick, but we don't even know how these kids will play in the NHL, and we where calling it a bad pick....

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06-01-2013, 10:03 AM
  #957
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It looks like there are some very good defensemen in this draft that merit top ten selection. There also are some talented forwards. Since there is usually less risk with forwards, I suspect that a quality defenseman will slip to the Flyers. One who really shouldn't have lasted to #11 but GMs want to keep their jobs so they'll take a forward instead.

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06-01-2013, 10:42 AM
  #958
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I don't get it, doesn't trust the Flyers scouts to find defensive talent but wants us to spend our 1st rounder on a defensemen.

I honestly don't care what we do with our first rounder, my only hope is that we at least draft a defensemen with one of our first two picks.


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06-01-2013, 11:09 AM
  #959
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I have an awful feeling that Nichushkin will fall to 11th and the Flyers will pass up on him.

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06-01-2013, 11:32 AM
  #960
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Nichushkin's "I'm taking my ball and going home" if something doesn't go his way attitude will definitely scare off teams.

He apparently didn't test too well at the combine yesterday which is kind of surprising to me considering he's pretty built.

I have a feeling he'll be there at 11 too. I just hope the Flyers pull the trigger instead of passing him up.

Edit: Apparently he didn't train for the combine.

http://en.rsport.ru/interview/20130523/663802581.html
Quote:
-Youíve said you are flying to New York on Thursday. You're going to spend several days there before the NHL scouting combine in Toronto?

"Yes, on Saturday, I'll attend a football match between Man City and Chelsea at Yankees Stadium. Then, I'll fly to Toronto where I'll talk to [NHL] teams for four days. For the next two days I'll do the physical tests."

- Have you prepared for them?

"No, I've done nothing."

- Why?

"I want to come to the season in top shape. I don't train so I won't complain about fatigue during the season. To be honest, I donít care about these tests. Itís more important for me to talk to the teams. That's my only goal."


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06-01-2013, 11:34 AM
  #961
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post

Why we need a defenseman pick at #11
1) Timmonen is retiring after next season.
2) Poor defensive play this year.

Ha. This list is awesome. I wasn't sold before I saw your list, but now I'm completely sold.

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06-01-2013, 11:57 AM
  #962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGoFlyers1825 View Post
I have an awful feeling that Nichushkin will fall to 11th and the Flyers will pass up on him.
No way that happens IMO. He came straight out and said he wants to be in the NHL next season. He may drop out of the top 5 but I don't think it'll be by that much.

Anyway I hope the flyers can land General Zad. That guy is gonna be a monster physically and he's got mad skill to boot. Watch the draft combine special (link posted earlier) and you'll get a sense of what he brings to the table. Keep in mind I've been pro Zadorov for about a month now.

Edit: In the aforementioned draft combine special Nichushkin said via a translator that his two year contract everyone has been talking about recently has been terminated and he's now a free agent. He said if he doesn't make an NHL team (which I think is unlikely) then he'd go back to the KHL.


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06-01-2013, 12:07 PM
  #963
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
No way that happens IMO. He came straight out and said he wants to be in the NHL next season. He may drop out of the top 5 but I don't think it'll be by that much.

Anyway I hope the flyers can land General Zad. That guy is gonna be a monster physically and he's got mad skill to boot. Watch the draft combine special (link posted earlier) and you'll get a sense of what he brings to the table. Keep in mind I've been pro Zadorov for about a month now.
He wouldn't answer teams questions about playing in the AHL before the NHL at the combine. I don't think he's a shoe-in to be playing in the NHL next year so there's a chance he'll go back to Russia. I think that will scare off some teams.

Forsberg and Grigorenko were rated in the top 5 on most lists and dropped out of the top 10, both of them didn't have the questions marks surrounding them like Nichushkin does. He might not make it to our pick and hell we might not even draft him if he does but I don't think it's totally out of the question to see him drop out of the top 10.

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06-01-2013, 12:12 PM
  #964
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Forsberg and Grigorenko were rated in the top 5 on most lists and dropped out of the top 10, both of them didn't have the questions marks surrounding them like Nichushkin does. He might not make it to our pick and hell we might not even draft him if he does but I don't think it's totally out of the question to see him drop out of the top 10.
Grigs might have been rated top 5 mid season but by the end of the year he was a big faller(in some places rating outside the top 20). TSN had him at 12

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06-01-2013, 12:24 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
He wouldn't answer teams questions about playing in the AHL before the NHL at the combine. I don't think he's a shoe-in to be playing in the NHL next year so there's a chance he'll go back to Russia. I think that will scare off some teams.

Forsberg and Grigorenko were rated in the top 5 on most lists and dropped out of the top 10, both of them didn't have the questions marks surrounding them like Nichushkin does. He might not make it to our pick and hell we might not even draft him if he does but I don't think it's totally out of the question to see him drop out of the top 10.
Forsberg went 6th didn't he so that's not really much movement (which is pretty much what I think will happen with Nichushkin) and as boredmale said Grigorenko had dropped in rankings considerably. I get you're point and yeah it's not out of the realm of possibility that Nichushkin could drop out of the top 10, I just think it's highly unlikely given his desire to play in the NHL. My point is even if he doesn't make it onto an NHL team next season and he goes back to the KHL I doubt his desire to play in the NHL will have dissipated in a year and by then he'll most definitely be ready to play in the NHL. I mean just looking at the teams who are drafting in the 5-10 range I'd argue he'd make most of those teams out of camp next year given their lack of offensive depth (flames, sabres, devils, stars). Hell, the Canes even make some sense especially with Semin signed long term (Nichushkin doesn't speak English).

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06-01-2013, 12:37 PM
  #966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Forsberg went 6th didn't he so that's not really much movement (which is pretty much what I think will happen with Nichushkin) and as boredmale said Grigorenko had dropped in rankings considerably. I get you're point and yeah it's not out of the realm of possibility that Nichushkin could drop out of the top 10, I just think it's highly unlikely given his desire to play in the NHL. My point is even if he doesn't make it onto an NHL team next season and he goes back to the KHL I doubt his desire to play in the NHL will have dissipated in a year and by then he'll most definitely be ready to play in the NHL. I mean just looking at the teams who are drafting in the 5-10 range I'd argue he'd make most of those teams out of camp next year given their lack of offensive depth (flames, sabres, devils, stars). Hell, the Canes even make some sense especially with Semin signed long term (Nichushkin doesn't speak English).
Forsberg went 11th actually (coincidence?).

I would say his chances of making an NHL roster is 50/50 right now regardless of where he goes. It might be year if in the KHL but teams could offer him crazy stuff during that time to try to get him to stay, even with the terminated contract the "Russian factor" will still be in play. Teams still won't be comfortable with him spending that year in the KHL if he doesn't make the roster.

I honestly wouldn't be shocked either way if he goes in the top 10 or not.


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06-01-2013, 12:41 PM
  #967
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I don't get it, doesn't trust the Flyers scouts to find defensive talent but wants us to spend our 1st rounder on a defensemen.

I honestly don't care what we do with our first rounder, my only hope is that we at least draft a defensemen with one of our first two picks.
I just think our offense is strength of this team.
The Flyers should try to draft a #1 defenseman in this draft.
The are more likely to find one at #11, than in the 2nd round or later.
I think 1st round defenders are more likely to become NHL players than lower round picks.

A defensive pick in rounds 2-7, is more likely to be a 3rd pairing defender if they develop at all.
That type of pick will not help elevate this defense.

In addition, if the offense rebounds next year, we might make the playoffs and
our #1 pick will be later than this years #11.
We could probably pick in the 20's- a perfect spot to pick a center next year.

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06-01-2013, 12:48 PM
  #968
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I strongly believe everyone knows you want to draft a defenseman with the Flyers first round pick. I believe 70 of those 76 post have made that statement. It might even be all of them.

Flyers don't believe the centers will develop quicker either, they have the best potential they feel. Everyone is so high on Dougie Hamilton, but lets see the kid play a full 82 and take it from there. We haven't seen fan bases or others tout a rookie before on here....... Hmmm still waiting for Krieder to become an elite goal scorer he was supposed to be this year. Now the Ranger fans are throwing him in deals left and right. We are the most reactionary place to discuss hockey on the internet, I trust whoever the Flyers take in the first round, defenseman or not. I am not a pro scout, so their opinion is much more valued than any of us. Last year is the perfect example, Laughton over Maataa. Everyone was so mad at that pick, but we don't even know how these kids will play in the NHL, and we were calling it a bad pick....
Heck, the Flyers could be right. I could be totally wrong.
I would not be the first time that happened.

As a fan I just marvel at the ineptitude of our defense in
moving the puck out of our zone.

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06-01-2013, 01:43 PM
  #969
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Since I'm lazy, for those that we could pick up at 11th, did any of them do well in the Combine?


Last edited by SolidSnakeUS: 06-01-2013 at 02:01 PM.
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06-01-2013, 02:01 PM
  #970
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Also, what would be fair to try to get those two high 2nds from the Habs (34th and 36th)?

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06-01-2013, 02:18 PM
  #971
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Also, what would be fair to try to get those two high 2nds from the Habs (34th and 36th)?
Other than trading back from 11 to 25?

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06-01-2013, 02:29 PM
  #972
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I mean in terms of going right after those two 2nd rounders. Keeping 11th, then basically have 34th, 36th and 41st in the 2nd round.

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06-01-2013, 02:32 PM
  #973
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
I mean in terms of going right after those two 2nd rounders. Keeping 11th, then basically have 34th, 36th and 41st in the 2nd round.
I guess Laughton?

In other words, nothing that is going to make any kind of sense.

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06-01-2013, 02:34 PM
  #974
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I mean in terms of going right after those two 2nd rounders. Keeping 11th, then basically have 34th, 36th and 41st in the 2nd round.
Coburn?
Just spitballing an idea. I'm not on the bandwagon to get rid of him unless there's good value coming back.

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06-01-2013, 02:41 PM
  #975
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Coburn?
Just spitballing an idea. I'm not on the bandwagon to get rid of him unless there's good value coming back.
I'm not totally against trading Coburn, if we were to trade him I would want a roster player coming back or one close to making the jump and preferably a defensemen but if I were to trade him for futures I rather set the bar a little higher than two 2nd's. I honestly think we could get a late 1st and a pretty good to decent prospect for Coburn if we were to deal him for futures.

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