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Bertuzzi leaving? not so fast...

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Old
10-07-2006, 11:07 AM
  #76
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yeah, yeah. is that supposed to be surprising? or is that related to our discussion here laus723? i don't think so. broduer is great. who'd argue that? if had to choose between the two right now to put a team together for a year or two, i'd probably choose marty. but he's one of the top goalies in the history of the game and he's still very good. if i'm signing someone long term, i'd probably go with louie if the choice was between the two. also, there are some other guys out there that'll be better than louie on a given night. not more than a few though and not on many nights. none of that pertains to my original point, though. to say that luongo sucks or that the team is better off without him is, IMNSHO ludicrous. this club is in a precarious situation right now thanks to this trade. very precarious. i'm hoping we have a great year but if things don't work out with bertuzzi...
When did laus723 say Roberto sucks exactly? Furthermore, when was the last time Florida scored 8 goals on opening night with Luongo in net again? You can at least remember that far back right?

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let's talk a little more about rebound control though. explain to me exactly where you think louie's weak? is it the fact he doesn't kick shots out to the corner, like we saw raycroft do a couple of times last night? or is his blocker weak? is it point shots? where, specifically, do you think his weakness lies?
Let's put it this way...if he had better control, he wouldn't have seen as many shots as he did in the past but he likes facing a lot of shots because if he makes one great save every 10 or so shots a game, he can leave the glove in the air and showboat for his fans like he did something other than what he's paid to do. Wonder how long it will take for his hotdogging displays to show themselves in Vancouver?

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10-07-2006, 11:09 AM
  #77
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10-07-2006, 11:13 AM
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Per nhl.com, the last time Todd Bertuzzi scored 4 points in one game was February 25, 2003. That was also the best season he ever played, snatching 46 goals and 51 assists for 97 points.

If Bertuzzi can have a monster season like that again, maybe he'd want to continue playing here to stick with his linemates and everything if it all works out? Plus last night he got tons of cheers, not boos like I've been told he got in the Western Conference/NW division.

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10-07-2006, 11:20 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Well yeah, but the Bertuzzi situation isn't awesome. If he plays well and we manage to sign him, it will be a big contract. If he sucks, he goes through FA and we lose him for nothing, rubbing it in that we could have had Frolov or Havlat. The other alternative is what you just said, but his value would be fairly limited.


Frolov is only a young player with potential.

Havlat is a good hockey player but we'd be in the same boat as we are with Bertuzzi right now and he might even be more likely to go elsewhere in the summer since he's about 6 years younger than Bert and likely would get more money thrown his way as a result.

There aren't very many players that possess the combination of skill and brute force that Bertuzzi brings to the table. You might say that there are only about a handful (if that) better power forwards in this league right now than Bert....which should clue you in. Whereas you can say there are a lot more than a handful of skilled and finesse forwards than Havlat and also more than a handful of younger players with star potential than Frolov. We got a premier player in Bert...even if it's just for one season; he'll be fun to watch. Open your eyes already.

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10-07-2006, 11:23 AM
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10-07-2006, 11:33 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by RedHotChiliPanthers View Post
Not bitter at all.

Your opinion on him and his play is clearly totally blinded by your emotional feeling towards him. You don't like the guy, plain and simple. Get over it, he's one of the most talented goalies around.
No, I'm not bitter. I don't have emotional felings towards him, I'm married! I've been saying this stuff about Luongo since he started asking be the top paid goalie in the league. He opened himself up to criticism and I've voiced those criticisms. It seems, though, that your opinion on him and his play is clearly totally blinded by your emotional feeling towards him.
Apparently, you and Michael87 just read what you want and ignore the rest. It would do well to actually read things, instead of forming an opinion on one or two sentences.

Get over it, he's the most overrated goalie around.

I'll take Bertuzzi and the night he had along with Allen and Auld's nights.

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10-07-2006, 11:35 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by RedHotChiliPanthers View Post
Has Jokinen brought us anywhere? What has Bertuzzi done in his career to be considered as money more wisely spent? How much money does Bert make again, you're telling me that keeping Luongo would had kept us from getting improvments in other areas. Give me a break. It would have been only abuut a 1 mil difference if Luongo had signed here. So, they could had gone after Salei as well, gone after another Dman or forward and let Jackman or Semenov walk for example.
Wow, we could have kept Luongo, and gotten Salei, instead of Bertuzzi, Allen, and Auld. We also would have had to break the rules and hire someone who was already under contract.

Bertuzzi, Jokinen, etc. weren't asking to be paid more than overy other player in the league were they?? Horrible argument. When a guy insists on being paid more than any other goalie (not to mention the other demands), he opens himself to criticisms about his play. Give me 1, just 1, reason why he deserves more than every other goalie out there. Potential? Then I guess Crosby, Ovechkin, and Malkin are all going to be making 10 mil when their contracts are up.

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10-07-2006, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Lauser3 View Post
When did laus723 say Roberto sucks exactly? Furthermore, when was the last time Florida scored 8 goals on opening night with Luongo in net again? You can at least remember that far back right?
I haven't. The Luongo lovers here just want to read half of the post and make an assumption based on what they loosely read. They need to read the whole post, it's not hard.


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10-07-2006, 04:46 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
I haven't. The Luongo lovers here just want to read half of the post and make an assumption based on what they loosely read. They need to read the whole post, it's not hard.
no, no, no. in the other post, i wasn't referring to you. i've never seen you say that. there were a few other posters saying he sucks which is obviously silly.

i'm not a luongo lover. i think he's one of two or three top young goalies in this league, heading into his prime. was he overhyped in florida, maybe. he was turned into the face of the franchise for marketing purposes and the local press seems to have a slightly inflated view of him, perhaps because of the marketing or perhaps because some of them don't know the game that well. the rest of the league regards him in the manner i've described - *one* of the top goalies right now. not the best goalie in the world, not a franchise saver by himself.

i disagree with this notion that you are paying him for potential. he's a veteran now, plays a ton of games each year, making a ton of saves with an outstanding save percentage. true, we don't know for certain that he's going to mister clutch come april ala marty but the league has seen enough of him to know that he's a top flight goalie. also, unlike turco (that'll be the next name the lausii bring up), who's very unconventional and thus perhaps unpredictable, louie's a very technical goaltender. he has to be playing the style he plays. we've seen him go through a stretch or two when he's off, not playing his angles well and going down early, particularly last year. i think though, that given his agility, techinical excellency and consistency, you can extrapolate from the regular season to the playoffs. i (and everyone else pretty much in the hockey world) could be wrong, though. just wanted to state that. we know you how you guys feel about that so no need to respond on this particular issue as we'll just keep going round and round. if he ends up being a choker in april, i'll be the first to come out and say i was wrong. i would like to hear some specifics though about this rebound control issue. going to respond to lauser3 on the other thread now.

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10-07-2006, 05:09 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Lauser3 View Post
How can someone be bitter if the player he dislikes is gone and the player we got for him scored this team's first goal of the year while finishing with 4 points (leading the team) while our captain (who you claim is better) is tied for 3rd with 4 other players on the roster? Yes, it's one game...but it's a pretty good start with 81 games to go.
Pretty quick to jump the gun there. The team has played 1 game. If you want to go that route, then I guess it is safe to say the team will be fine without an enforcer.

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Originally Posted by Lauser3 View Post
How about your opinion of him...no bias there right?
No bias here, he's a great goalie with loads of talent, but that's just common knowledge. It's not like I'm cheering for him and the nucks. I'll be cheering the next time he plays for team Canada, but that's as far as it goes.

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10-07-2006, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Lauser3 View Post
Well, for starters...Bertuzzi's helped the Canucks reach the playoffs more than once. How many playoff games has Roberto been in again? Bert is making around 5.3 this year while Luongo's average is about 6.75...how is that only a "1 mil" difference? Yes, keeping Luongo at his price tag would have kept us from making improvements on the overall roster...please go look at the Canucks roster for reference. Luongo's getting paid on potential...Bertuzzi is not. He's actually proven something in this league....while having a hell of a lot more to deal with in Vancouver than Luongo ever had in Florida mind you. So, come again?
I said it would have been only about a 1 mil difference, which is entirely true since he would have signed for less here at around 6mil. I don't have to go look at the Canucks roster, our roster is what I look at. Sure our depth up front would not include a player of Bertuzzi's calibre, but we could have made a couple moves to round out the roster.

If you add the salaries of Bert, Allen, Auld, Salei and Belfour that amounts to around 12-13 mil. If we keep Luongo and sign Mclennan and Salei, we still have 3-4 mil to play with to get to our current payroll. Not to mention more if we had let Jackman walk. So, overall the trade-off is just Bert vs. Luongo (since Luongo brings a cheaper option at backup). Some people would rather have a quality goaltender for playoff purposes and I am one of that group.

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10-07-2006, 05:39 PM
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Pretty quick to jump the gun there. The team has played 1 game. If you want to go that route, then I guess it is safe to say the team will be fine without an enforcer.
Don't go off on a tangent...but since you mention it, that thread is still waiting for you btw. As to your point how am I jumping the gun exactly? I made mention that it's just one game...but that does not change the fact that Bertuzzi has proven to be the better player so far.

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No bias here, he's a great goalie with loads of talent, but that's just common knowledge. It's not like I'm cheering for him and the nucks. I'll be cheering the next time he plays for team Canada, but that's as far as it goes.
No bias? You've mentioned before that he's one of your favorite players in the league but we're supposed to believe there is no bias now?

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10-07-2006, 05:45 PM
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I said it would have been only about a 1 mil difference, which is entirely true since he would have signed for less here at around 6mil. I don't have to go look at the Canucks roster, our roster is what I look at. Sure our depth up front would not include a player of Bertuzzi's calibre, but we could have made a couple moves to round out the roster.
If it were true that he would've signed here for less...he'd be in net tonight for the Panthers. The fact that he isn't and signed with Vancouver for more money proves he's full of ****. What moves exactly could have been made to make this team more competitive with Luongo here? Hmmm? You've seen Vancouver's team right?

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If you add the salaries of Bert, Allen, Auld, Salei and Belfour that amounts to around 12-13 mil. If we keep Luongo and sign Mclennan and Salei, we still have 3-4 mil to play with to get to our current payroll. Not to mention more if we had let Jackman walk. So, overall the trade-off is just Bert vs. Luongo (since Luongo brings a cheaper option at backup). Some people would rather have a quality goaltender for playoff purposes and I am one of that group.
Belfour is an upgrade over Noodles. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. If you still bring in Salei...that still doesn't factor in Mike Van Ryn's contract and also leaves another top 4 defensemen out of the picture unless you think Krajicek was that? But again I ask...what "elite" goaltender(s) played in the Stanley Cup finals? Hmmm? You don't need an elite goalie to get you in the playoffs....you need a team that can provide enough offense to offset any problems/questions in net. We have that now...we didn't have that before with Luongo. Just like Vancouver doesn't now.

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10-07-2006, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by michaels87 View Post
no, no, no. in the other post, i wasn't referring to you. i've never seen you say that. there were a few other posters saying he sucks which is obviously silly.

i'm not a luongo lover. i think he's one of two or three top young goalies in this league, heading into his prime. was he overhyped in florida, maybe. he was turned into the face of the franchise for marketing purposes and the local press seems to have a slightly inflated view of him, perhaps because of the marketing or perhaps because some of them don't know the game that well. the rest of the league regards him in the manner i've described - *one* of the top goalies right now. not the best goalie in the world, not a franchise saver by himself.

i disagree with this notion that you are paying him for potential. he's a veteran now, plays a ton of games each year, making a ton of saves with an outstanding save percentage. true, we don't know for certain that he's going to mister clutch come april ala marty but the league has seen enough of him to know that he's a top flight goalie. also, unlike turco (that'll be the next name the lausii bring up), who's very unconventional and thus perhaps unpredictable, louie's a very technical goaltender. he has to be playing the style he plays. we've seen him go through a stretch or two when he's off, not playing his angles well and going down early, particularly last year. i think though, that given his agility, techinical excellency and consistency, you can extrapolate from the regular season to the playoffs. i (and everyone else pretty much in the hockey world) could be wrong, though. just wanted to state that. we know you how you guys feel about that so no need to respond on this particular issue as we'll just keep going round and round. if he ends up being a choker in april, i'll be the first to come out and say i was wrong. i would like to hear some specifics though about this rebound control issue. going to respond to lauser3 on the other thread now.
What other thread? I believe this is the only one I've addressed you in recently.

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10-07-2006, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
No, I'm not bitter. I don't have emotional felings towards him, I'm married!
You let your judgement to be clouded by non-hockey related issues (salary demands and other contract related issues)

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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
I've been saying this stuff about Luongo since he started asking be the top paid goalie in the league. He opened himself up to criticism and I've voiced those criticisms. It seems, though, that your opinion on him and his play is clearly totally blinded by your emotional feeling towards him.
Apparently, you and Michael87 just read what you want and ignore the rest. It would do well to actually read things, instead of forming an opinion on one or two sentences.

Get over it, he's the most overrated goalie around.
You feel he doesn't deserve his salary but that's nonsense. You can't compare his salary to Brodeur and Kipper since Brodeur took a discount to get a long term deal going into his old days and he negotiates without an agent. Kipper signed his current deal after half a year that he was great, his next contract will be pretty big if he keeps it up. Luongo is entering his prime and got a bit more money than he really deserved since he was going to be UFA. Now, if you look at other goaltenders who have signed post-lockout. Khabibulin is making 6.75mil, Turco is making 6mil, Vokoun signed for over 5.5mil/yr, Kolzig is making 5.5mil/yr, Fernandez signed for over 4mil/yr, Nabokov is making over 5mil/yr, Dipietro signed for 4.5mil/yr, Gerber signed for 3.7mil/yr. I really don't get how you can say that Luongo is overpaid based on all of that.

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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
I'll take Bertuzzi and the night he had along with Allen and Auld's nights.
It was a great start to the season but that's just one game. Btw, I never disputed that this team, with Bert, can be competitive, but we could have been really competitive as well with Luongo based on the second half of last year, getting a couple other players and Luongo playing more up to his stardard. I'm one who believes that winning in the playoffs starts with goaltending, so obviously I was not happy to see a goaltender of Luongo's calibre get traded away just as we were getting somewhere and he was entering his prime.

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