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2013 Offseason Thread Part III: Free Agents Suck

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Old
06-03-2013, 11:51 AM
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Here's where I disagree with you and alot of guys here.

I don't think that Boyle and Pyatt are NEARLY physical enough players....
Well, I think it all depends on the role you want them to play. If we want guys who will wearing the opponent's D down through hitting, then I agree. If we want guys who will wear them down through puck control and cycle, then those guys are fine.

So yeah, in terms of physicality, we could definitely use an upgrade if that's what we're going for, I agree there.

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06-03-2013, 11:54 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
How do the Rangers want to play? Every line needs to be able to skate. The days of the having 2 scoring lines,checking line and the Crash line are over. All of the forwards need to be good skaters or they can't play on the team. Every line needs to contribute some level of offense. All of the teams remaining have good depth. All of their skaters can play. Look at the Hawks. Boston. Don't fill out the bottom six with guys like Boyle,Pyatt,Powe and Asham. Dorsett is a good player. Revamp the bottom six.
I think that illustrates my point fairly well. You can put together a very effective 4th line out of those 6 players, but once you play any of them as 3rd liners, filling out your bottom-6, you have a problem.

It's not the entire bottom-6 that needs revamping. It's the 3rd line.

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06-03-2013, 11:54 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Brian Boyle was 15th in the league in hits despite missing 10 games. Not quite sure about your physicality argument there. I'll give you Pyatt, who didn't do much at all during the season.
yeah those stats about Boyle being a consistent hitter. I'd like to know the criteria used in determining hits.

He's the most ineffective guy in the league when it comes to physicality.

when our D are pressed and hit, they are the guys getting up off the ice.

When Boyle is the one initiating contact, I see his big dumbass getting up off the ice more than the guy he hits.

I've never been impressed with his level of physicality.

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Old
06-03-2013, 11:55 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
How do the Rangers want to play? Every line needs to be able to skate. The days of the having 2 scoring lines,checking line and the Crash line are over. All of the forwards need to be good skaters or they can't play on the team. Every line needs to contribute some level of offense. All of the teams remaining have good depth. All of their skaters can play. Look at the Hawks. Boston. Don't fill out the bottom six with guys like Boyle,Pyatt,Powe and Asham. Dorsett is a good player. Revamp the bottom six.
This is a must. Nystrom is a great start. Adding one of Miller/Lindberg/Fast/Hrivik should help as well.

Boyle and Dorsett are the only (2) guys who should stay.

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06-03-2013, 12:01 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
yeah those stats about Boyle being a consistent hitter. I'd like to know the criteria used in determining hits.

He's the most ineffective guy in the league when it comes to physicality.

when our D are pressed and hit, they are the guys getting up off the ice.

When Boyle is the one initiating contact, I see his big dumbass getting up off the ice more than the guy he hits.

I've never been impressed with his level of physicality.
Totally disagree about Boyle's hitting skills. He might not be a Lucic kinda hitter, but on this team he is the best overall hitter along with Callahan imo. I'd say many around here mix up his non existing fighting skills with his hitting ability. But it's just my opinion.

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06-03-2013, 12:04 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Sticky Fingers View Post
Totally disagree about Boyle's hitting skills. He might not be a Lucic kinda hitter, but on this team he is the best overall hitter along with Callahan imo. I'd say many around here mix up his non existing fighting skills with his hitting ability. But it's just my opinion.
Agreed. Guys may not fall down when he hits them all the time but he is effective hitter and difficult to play against due to his size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
yeah those stats about Boyle being a consistent hitter. I'd like to know the criteria used in determining hits.

He's the most ineffective guy in the league when it comes to physicality.

when our D are pressed and hit, they are the guys getting up off the ice.

When Boyle is the one initiating contact, I see his big dumbass getting up off the ice more than the guy he hits.

I've never been impressed with his level of physicality.
He is a consistent hitter. Just because he doesn't drive guys through the boards on every hit does not mean he is bad at it. No one does that.

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Old
06-03-2013, 12:06 PM
  #157
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Based off http://hurricanes.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=672780
Quote:
“There are some areas of our team that we’d like to fix sooner than later. If we had the chance to get something that helps our team immediately and not move [down] too many picks, we would at least have to have a pretty in-depth conversation about that within hockey operations,” he said. “I wouldn’t trade the pick outright and wouldn’t drop too many spots, but I’m not going to say I wouldn’t do it at all. I think the odds are against it. Probably not going to trade it. But I think it’s important to look at all options.”
- Jim Rutherford
So we can pretty much forget the Staal to Carolina for 5th+

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06-03-2013, 12:07 PM
  #158
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would clowe take 3rd liner money?

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06-03-2013, 12:11 PM
  #159
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would clowe take 3rd liner money?
What's 3rd liner money? 3-3.5?

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Old
06-03-2013, 12:19 PM
  #160
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Feels like every summer we need something from the bottom six. More grit. More scoring. More speed. More size. Then people spend the year justifying that we can trade guys from our bottom six because they're "easy to replace" through trade or free agency.

L1 - Stepan - Nash
L2 - Brassard - Zuccarello
Hagelin - C3 - Callahan
Pyatt - Boyle/C4 - Dorsett
Asham

McD - Girardi
Staal - Stralman
Moore - MDZ/D1
Eminger

L1 - Not sure if I want a finisher here, or if I want a puck hound like Hagelin. Leaning towards the latter but it really boils down to what kind of strategy we're going to employ.
L2 - Ultimately I think this will be Kreider, but you can't bet on him being there out of camp. Tough spot to fill on a line with two high-skill players. Really need a pure finisher, but the in-zone play is going to be hard to swallow.
C3 - I think this spot is up for grabs between Miller and Lindberg. Assuming Richards is bought out that is.
C4 - Optimal for Boyle, but if he's dealt, I could see Lindberg or even Newbury getting the job.
D1 - I happen to think Del Zotto is a lock to be traded, but that could all change with a new coach.

That's how I see the lineup currently. Will be interesting to see how things shake out. Hrivik will get a look next year. Can he make it out of camp?

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Old
06-03-2013, 12:21 PM
  #161
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Regarding Bordeleau who is a player I would like on the Rangers:

Good for ~5-7 minutes a night

Very good hitter. One of the best heavyweights in the game.

Good hands for a guy in his role. Good at cycling the puck. Colorado would like to re-sign him.

This is per Avs fans.

LWer, 27 years old. ~6'6

I am thinking he will be a Ranger. Time to get a younger guy to take on that role.

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Old
06-03-2013, 12:22 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Feels like every summer we need something from the bottom six. More grit. More scoring. More speed. More size. Then we spend the year justifying that we can trade guys from our bottom six because they're "easy to replace" through trade or free agency.

L1 - Stepan - Nash
L2 - Brassard - Zuccarello
Hagelin - C3 - Callahan
Pyatt - Boyle/C4 - Dorsett
Asham

McD - Girardi
Staal - Stralman
Moore - MDZ/D1
Eminger

L1 - Not sure if I want a finisher here, or if I want a puck hound like Hagelin. Leaning towards the latter but it really boils down to what kind of strategy we're going to employ.
L2 - Ultimately I think this will be Kreider, but you can't bet on him being there out of camp. Tough spot to fill on a line with two high-skill players. Really need a pure finisher, but the in-zone play is going to be hard to swallow.
C3 - I think this spot is up for grabs between Miller and Lindberg. Assuming Richards is bought out that is.
C4 - Optimal for Boyle, but if he's dealt, I could see Lindberg or even Newbury getting the job.
D1 - I happen to think Del Zotto is a lock to be traded, but that could all change with a new coach.

That's how I see the lineup currently. Will be interesting to see how things shake out. Hrivik will get a look next year. Can he make it out of camp?
Kreider needs to be with Nash. Both players had improved their games when they were playing together. We will sacrifice defense with that line HOWEVER that should be your number line and given their skill sets, should be able to keep the puck in the offensive zone more times than not.

I would be okay with Clowe for the 3rd line with Callahan. And Hagelin as the 2nd line LW.

Acquire Gaborik at the deadline.

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Old
06-03-2013, 12:23 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Regarding Bordeleau who is a player I would like on the Rangers:

Good for ~5-7 minutes a night

Very good hitter. One of the best heavyweights in the game.

Good hands for a guy in his role. Good at cycling the puck. Colorado would like to re-sign him.

This is per Avs fans.

LWer, 27 years old. ~6'6

I am thinking he will be a Ranger. Time to get a younger guy to take on that role.
If we're going to drop Boyle and Pyatt to the fourth, why are we getting a guy good for 5-7 minutes a night?

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Old
06-03-2013, 12:24 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Feels like every summer we need something from the bottom six. More grit. More scoring. More speed. More size. Then people spend the year justifying that we can trade guys from our bottom six because they're "easy to replace" through trade or free agency.

L1 - Stepan - Nash
L2 - Brassard - Zuccarello
Hagelin - C3 - Callahan
Pyatt - Boyle/C4 - Dorsett
Asham

McD - Girardi
Staal - Stralman
Moore - MDZ/D1
Eminger

L1 - Not sure if I want a finisher here, or if I want a puck hound like Hagelin. Leaning towards the latter but it really boils down to what kind of strategy we're going to employ.
L2 - Ultimately I think this will be Kreider, but you can't bet on him being there out of camp. Tough spot to fill on a line with two high-skill players. Really need a pure finisher, but the in-zone play is going to be hard to swallow.
C3 - I think this spot is up for grabs between Miller and Lindberg. Assuming Richards is bought out that is.
C4 - Optimal for Boyle, but if he's dealt, I could see Lindberg or even Newbury getting the job.
D1 - I happen to think Del Zotto is a lock to be traded, but that could all change with a new coach.

That's how I see the lineup currently. Will be interesting to see how things shake out. Hrivik will get a look next year. Can he make it out of camp?
I am actually a Zuccarello fan, but looking at him in the top-6 is rough on the eyes.

Pyatt is also extremely soft for a 4th liner. Nystrom please. And get me Bordeleau

_____-Stepan-Nash
_____-Brassard-Callahan
Hagelin-_______-_______
Nystrom-Boyle-Dorsett
Bordeleau

Kreider will be in one of those LW spots.

Lindberg/Miller/Fast/Hrivik. Out of all of them, one of them will make the team. That leaves (2) spots to fill. Trade? UFA?

Also, you have to assume that to start the season, neither Callahan or Hagelin will be ready. All the more reason to sign Nystrom as he is more than capable of playing on the 3rd line in the Hagelin puck-hound role.

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06-03-2013, 12:25 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
Kreider needs to be with Nash. Both players had improved their games when they were playing together. We will sacrifice defense with that line HOWEVER that should be your number line and given their skill sets, should be able to keep the puck in the offensive zone more times than not.

I would be okay with Clowe for the 3rd line with Callahan. And Hagelin as the 2nd line LW.

Acquire Gaborik at the deadline.
I don't think Kreider has to be with Nash. Kreider looked good once he got a shot in the playoffs, but I don't think it was due to being on a line with Nash. He just got out of his own head and played his game. With two set-up guys on the 2nd line, Kreider would be getting a ton of looks at the net. He has the size and release to set himself up in and around the slot. Brassard and Zucc can find him there.

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06-03-2013, 12:37 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Here's where I disagree with you and alot of guys here.

I don't think that Boyle and Pyatt are NEARLY physical enough players.

I'd prefer to have less talented players that don't play such a perimeter game and are fast enough to get in on the forecheck and actually use their size.

The Rangers 3rd and 4th lines were abysmally slow and not nearly as physical as they should be. Dorsett being the exception.

I would prefer to get rid of both Pyatt and Boyle and bring up Newbury and sign Torres.

fast crap disturbers that funnel everything to the net and go there with ill intent.

Will they take a few penalties? Probably, but over the course of the game, the pressure that they put on the opposing defenceman will wear them down.

The Rangers need a major infusion of alot of what makes a hockey player successful. I believe the system was fundamentally flawed, but I also blame the players for being passive within that system.

We need to be an aggressive team, not a passive one.

New York is an aggressive town, the team we have should mirror that.
Michael Haley should be given a look for a 4th line.. how about a rookie surprise like Yogan?? he has the body to crash along the boards and bump some bodies.. im tired of the NYR 4th line being with older guys on the downside of 30... enough with the Asham Powe guys... i hope Yogan or even a guy like Kantor makes the NYR as a call up during the year...

i would not mind a Yogan Haley Dorsett line for the 4th next year..

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06-03-2013, 12:53 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I don't normally agree with Bern and his trade thoughts, but I can see a scenario in which we deal both Staal and MDZ at the draft.

MDZ to Edm for the #7 and 3rd

Staal to CAR for the #5, Murphy and either Tlusty or McBain

with a defence that retains Girardi, McD, Moore and Stralman that's still a very decent top 4. We can get bottom pairing defenceman And if both McIlrath and Murphy are ready that's a our top 6 right there.

Plus now we get to significantly up grade the forward position with Nichushkin and Monahan
Thank you.
This is one scenario of several possible, and what would it take (we probably need add one more piece) with the 5th and 7th overall to actually get the 2nd or 3rd overall.

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06-03-2013, 12:58 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Regarding Bordeleau who is a player I would like on the Rangers:

Good for ~5-7 minutes a night

Very good hitter. One of the best heavyweights in the game.

Good hands for a guy in his role. Good at cycling the puck. Colorado would like to re-sign him.

This is per Avs fans.

LWer, 27 years old. ~6'6

I am thinking he will be a Ranger. Time to get a younger guy to take on that role.
Haley's not as big but he could definitely fill that role.

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06-03-2013, 01:05 PM
  #169
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Yeah, but that is for one pick in the return mix.

What if we also do Staal for 5th +, keep the +, and ship the 5th+ 7th overalls for 2nd overall?
I'd rather the 5th and 7th than the second. Just my opinion.

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06-03-2013, 01:07 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I am actually a Zuccarello fan, but looking at him in the top-6 is rough on the eyes.

Pyatt is also extremely soft for a 4th liner. Nystrom please. And get me Bordeleau

_____-Stepan-Nash
_____-Brassard-Callahan
Hagelin-_______-_______
Nystrom-Boyle-Dorsett
Bordeleau

Kreider will be in one of those LW spots.

Lindberg/Miller/Fast/Hrivik. Out of all of them, one of them will make the team. That leaves (2) spots to fill. Trade? UFA?

Also, you have to assume that to start the season, neither Callahan or Hagelin will be ready. All the more reason to sign Nystrom as he is more than capable of playing on the 3rd line in the Hagelin puck-hound role.
I'm willing to give Zucc the benefit of the doubt. I think he's more than a "add a little offense to the 3rd line" kind of guy. He has very good chemistry with Brassard and is one of the most creative players on the roster. He was very good in the post season and down the stretch. I'm also looking at it beyond a top/bottom six mentality and looking to put together 4 lines that are all made up of players who can compliment each other.

Hags-OL/Miller-Cally is a fast, gritty, defensively responsible line. All three can generate offense. If we flipped MDZ and Boyle to Edmonton for the 7th pick and MPS, Hags can slot in with Stepan and Nash and MPS can take his spot.

Pyatt-Boyle-Dorsett worked very well for us in the playoffs. I don't want a 6'6 enforcer there because he lines up a big hit every 5 or 6 games. Pyatt is a good player.

Brassard/Zucc/Kreider could be deadly off the rush and once they get puck possession in the offensive zone, Kreider can create space for the others to get on the cycle.

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06-03-2013, 01:08 PM
  #171
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Haley sucks. If he's on the roster to start the season, there was no point in firing the coach, because the team is going nowhere with scrubs in the lineup.

Boyle and Dorsett are good bottom-6 players. Pyatt is OK as the 13th forward. He had a good playoffs. The others, no dice. This is how management should look at the lineup, IMO:

Kreider/Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Zuccarello-Brassard-xxxxx
Hagelin/Kreider-Lindberg/Miller-Callahan
Fast/UFA-Boyle-Dorsett
Pyatt

Fill in that second line RW hole, whether it be someone like Michael Ryder or via trade.

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06-03-2013, 01:08 PM
  #172
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Are there even any rumors of Edmonton liking Del Zotto?
yeah actually EDM's front office is high as hell on del zotto, for some reason.

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06-03-2013, 01:08 PM
  #173
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Definitely interested in Lecavalier or Hossa should they get the amnesty.

Sketchy on Briere. He's been racking up more injuries than points lately. Guy is a playoff killer though.
Yeah, if we want to ice a "Chicago"-type of line up, he really makes alot of pieces on this team add up so to speak (talk about a perfect fit for Zucc; he is still very good on the PP; he got a good shot, would have the best shot on the team; he is great on FO's; he has won a cup; he got size and is strong at center ice; he can PK etc etc etc).

Lecavalier isn't a franchise center anymore because he doesn't have the agility to go up against the very best players/shut down players. If you get the puck behind him, he is not good at getting it up ice. He wasn't good at that when he won scoring title either, and its not getting per year.

But if we can get him to sign for like 5m per for 2 years, he could definitely help out alot. The expectations on him would be more like on Shanny than on BR/Gomez/Drury.

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06-03-2013, 01:10 PM
  #174
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Getting Lecavalier signed to a cheap contract would be awesome. Gives Lindberg/Miller another year to develop and gives us a formidable 1-2-3 punch down the middle.

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06-03-2013, 01:12 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Glen Sathers Cigar View Post
...
Quote:
How exactly is gutting our defense, trading away two of our core guys, one of whom is a team leader going to work?
They should only be traded in the first place if the total of what we get back is a greater plus than keeping them. You conveniently did not discuss the fact that what I moved was replaced, arguably, by potential improvement. Yes, that's potential, and there is risk with potential. But the higher the prospect, the more likely the potential is realized.

When I originally suggested McD + MDZ for 1st (=McKinnon) + Siemens, you conveniently ignore that. Siemens was like 8th overall, MDZ like 23rd ish overall. So yes, Siemens has to seal the deal and show and prove he is another Dougie Hamilton, but there is no automatic reason to assume he won't do this.

McD, an established high calibre C possible eventual Norris finalist is a big risk against the crapshoot of McKinnon, but the upside of McKinnon is Tavares, maybe Tavares +, MAYBE, MAYBE pre-Stamkos lite. That is worth the risk, IMO, esp. with the upgrade of MDZ into Siemens.

Lastly, you are forgetting that by replacing BOTH McD +MDZ with ELCs, there is temporary room to overpay for what we would need.

I'm not a fan of Streit, esp. if big numbers long term.
But pay a little more for a 1 yr deal IF I have resolved my long term cap, and that is do-able.

And Streit is only one possible example.

Quote:
You live in fantasy land man. This isn't a video game.
You are the one not based in reality.
We need to move certain vets while their value is high.
Moving them later to only buy another year of the same is not gonna help. That will really discourage Hank.


Quote:
If one of them gets traded, the other one won't. We're not trading both of them.
Not if we're smart, but depends upon the return(s) offered.

Quote:
Trade two integral pieces of the core, blowing up the team even further, and we are guaranteeing Hank walking.
Give Hank more of the same, without showing potential for improvement.
That's how you push Hank to walk.

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