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2013 Offseason Thread Part III: Free Agents Suck

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06-03-2013, 01:59 PM
  #201
JeffMangum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Rangers need to stop trying to build their team by poaching the players they need from other teams with a big check. Who is the core of this team? It's the players we've developed from within, or the ones who were brought in via some savvy trades. Stop with the FA's.
Yup. A big free agent signing every one in a while (ala Hossa to Chicago/Detroit, Chara to Boston, or Gonchar to Pittsburgh) is fine, but it's just every single year, the Rangers find someone else to overpay on the FA market.

2011: Richards
2009: Gaborik (although that was actually the one signing that worked out)
2008: Redden
2007: Drury and Gomez

2010 and 2012 were the only offseasons over the past few years where the Rangers didn't go out and sign a big name. Enough is enough. It's quite clear that a team built of free agents and mercenaries is not going to be successful in this league. Now, more than ever, systems and coaching play a huge role in player effectiveness and development. A big reason why the Rangers have struggled is the lack of familiarity and chemistry. The core of the team needs to be brought up playing a cohesive, structured, stable system. Not through the musical chairs method the Rangers use every offseason.

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06-03-2013, 01:59 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Exactly this. Also beware the love affair of players having big playoffs. Yes Bickell is playing very well, but you don't want to be the team that overpays him and can't give him the same opportunity as the Hawks. Some of these guys are just in their perfect situation right now. Like Vrbata who can't produce outside the desert as an example.
Joel Ward syndrome.

I like him, but he will be overpaid.

What about Ryan Jones from Edmonton?

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06-03-2013, 02:00 PM
  #203
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Who are u guys willing to trade though? IMO only ones not in play are Hank, Nash, Stepan, Mcd, and Cally

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06-03-2013, 02:00 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Joel Ward syndrome.

I like him, but he will be overpaid.

What about Ryan Jones from Edmonton?
Would be a good 4th line LW. Don't see any room for him in the (ideal) lineup otherwise. He's more of a third liner, anyway.

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06-03-2013, 02:03 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Yup. A big free agent signing every one in a while (ala Hossa to Chicago/Detroit, Chara to Boston, or Gonchar to Pittsburgh) is fine, but it's just every single year, the Rangers find someone else to overpay on the FA market.

2011: Richards
2009: Gaborik (although that was actually the one signing that worked out)
2008: Redden
2007: Drury and Gomez

2010 and 2012 were the only offseasons over the past few years where the Rangers didn't go out and sign a big name. Enough is enough. It's quite clear that a team built of free agents and mercenaries is not going to be successful in this league. Now, more than ever, systems and coaching play a huge role in player effectiveness and development. A big reason why the Rangers have struggled is the lack of familiarity and chemistry. The core of the team needs to be brought up playing a cohesive, structured, stable system. Not through the musical chairs method the Rangers use every offseason.
They need to find the RIGHT pieces in UFA. Shanahan was a good signing. Rozsival? Malik? Stralman? Biron?

I truly believe Nystrom is a player in that mold that the fans and this team will love. Compare players in their roles to others around the league.

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06-03-2013, 02:04 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Who are u guys willing to trade though? IMO only ones not in play are Hank, Nash, Stepan, Mcd, and Cally
Del Zotto, Pyatt, Powe, Asham, Boyle, MZA.

Some lower tier prospects like:
Bourque, Yogan, Jean

Obviously they aren't going to return a ton (outside of MDZ) but I think moving some of those guys and replacing them either from within or on the return/UFA would be a step in the right direction.

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06-03-2013, 02:07 PM
  #207
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Nylander was Sather's best free agent signing. Gaborik is close 2nd. 1A. The rest of them you can throw into the garbage. Matt Cullen. 1 year before he asks to be traded. Steve Zipay reported it before it happened. Ales Kotalik. Gomez. Drury. Redden. These guys are post 2004. Nylander was signed before the 2004 lockout. Summer of 2004. Brashear. Torts wanted him. Richards. Torts wanted him. Aaron Ward. He got into a fight with Jagr on the bench during a game. Mara was on his way a few days later.

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06-03-2013, 02:12 PM
  #208
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We still don't know what direction the team is going. Who will be the coach, what system will he use?
The only 2 trades I am entertaining is getting a big RW for that 2RW position and a RHD with a good shot who can man the point on the PP.
1 - 2RW: I advocate for Stafford because he'd be cheap to get and seems to me like a perfect change of scenery candidate. But other can fit the bill as well, as long as it doesn't break the bank (mid rd picks + mid prospects).
2 - RHD, I listed some of them earlier, but anyone of McBain, Blum, Ellis, Barrie, Elliott would work for me. I like McBain because he has the wheels, the size and is a little more physical than the others.

DZ should be left as a trade as last resort until we know how the current pieces fit in the new system.

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06-03-2013, 02:15 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Del Zotto, Pyatt, Powe, Asham, Boyle, MZA.

Some lower tier prospects like:
Bourque, Yogan, Jean

Obviously they aren't going to return a ton (outside of MDZ) but I think moving some of those guys and replacing them either from within or on the return/UFA would be a step in the right direction.
I wouldn't trade Yogan unless I have to. I envision him as a Bickell in 3 or 4 years.

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06-03-2013, 02:16 PM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
I wouldn't trade Yogan unless I have to. I envision him as a Bickell in 3 or 4 years.
With so many players ahead of him on the depth chart:

Fast
Linderg
Miller
Kreider
Thomas
Hrivik

I am not sure I can envision him making the NHL with this team.

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06-03-2013, 02:19 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
With so many players ahead of him on the depth chart:

Fast
Linderg
Miller
Kreider
Thomas
Hrivik

I am not sure I can envision him making the NHL with this team.
But he has something none of them have. Size and grit. He can be a perfect complimentary 3rd liner who can drop 'em if anybody takes liberties with the skill guys.

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06-03-2013, 02:24 PM
  #212
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You have to sign the right FAs like Boyler said. You can't shun free agency because certain players didn't pan out.

amnestied players should provided us with some options along with trades. The turnover needs stop, but we still have holes to fill. I'm hoping that some of the bottom six can be filled from within.

I think we need Torres and or Parros. We need some savagery in this lineup.

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06-03-2013, 02:26 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Who are u guys willing to trade though? IMO only ones not in play are Hank, Nash, Stepan, Mcd, and Cally
I'm willing to trade anyone if the price is right.

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06-03-2013, 02:26 PM
  #214
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Torres will be suspended for every hit he makes on Crosby or Ovi if he was a Ranger

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06-03-2013, 02:28 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
You have to sign the right FAs like Boyler said. You can't shun free agency because certain players didn't pan out.

amnestied players should provided us with some options along with trades. The turnover needs stop, but we still have holes to fill. I'm hoping that some of the bottom six can be filled from within.

I think we need Torres and or Parros. We need some savagery in this lineup.
I agree with the need for some savagery. Bordeleau would be good. Nystrom would be a solid addition. Clowe worked well when healthy. How healthy is he? What do the Rangers doctors say?

Will VL be bought out? What about Streit?

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06-03-2013, 02:31 PM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I agree with the need for some savagery. Bordeleau would be good. Nystrom would be a solid addition. Clowe worked well when healthy. How healthy is he? What do the Rangers doctors say?

Will VL be bought out? What about Streit?
I really don't see the point of Bordeleau unless we want to ice a useless fourth line again. Either we move in the direction of having a fully competent fourth line that plays 10-12 minutes or we ice our random mish mash of players again.

If you put someone like Boyle on the fourth line, sure you can sign Nystrom and have him play there. You can't do that to Bordeleau. He's a 6 minute guy. Not who we're looking for.

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06-03-2013, 02:31 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I agree with the need for some savagery. Bordeleau would be good. Nystrom would be a solid addition. Clowe worked well when healthy. How healthy is he? What do the Rangers doctors say?

Will VL be bought out? What about Streit?
I like Nystrom, that would be a good signing regardless of the system. The 4th line needs a serious upgrade and that would be a good start.

I am even willing to trade Dorsett if the return is worth it. I was not impressed. Maybe my expectations were too high based on feedback from Jackets fans.

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06-03-2013, 02:32 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
I like Nystrom, that would be a good signing regardless of the system. The 4th line needs a serious upgrade and that would be a good start.

I am even willing to trade Dorsett if the return is worth it. I was not impressed. Maybe my expectations were too high based on feedback from Jackets fans.
He apparently highly underachieved from their comments. I'm going to expect more next year.

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06-03-2013, 02:33 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
You have to sign the right FAs like Boyler said. You can't shun free agency because certain players didn't pan out.

amnestied players should provided us with some options along with trades. The turnover needs stop, but we still have holes to fill. I'm hoping that some of the bottom six can be filled from within.

I think we need Torres and or Parros. We need some savagery in this lineup.
This team has not proven that they're capable of signing the right FA's. Nothing shows me that they've learned from their mistakes. They've done two things well: Develop players from within, and turn bigger assets into smaller, perhaps more effective pieces. Stick with what works.

Torres is a dirtbag. Let's sign a guy who will play himself into a suspension. That's the ticket.

Parros is an aging enforcer. Haven't we learned our lesson with those guys yet? Get some guys who can play hockey 95% of the time and fight occasionally. Not guys who fight 95% of the time and play hockey occasionally.

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06-03-2013, 02:34 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I agree with the need for some savagery. Bordeleau would be good. Nystrom would be a solid addition. Clowe worked well when healthy. How healthy is he? What do the Rangers doctors say?

Will VL be bought out? What about Streit?
don't know much about Bordeleau, some said he was pretty tough, young. From what you've said about Nystrom he could be good as well.

Clowe said he was fine and wants to return in the exit interviews. IDK, for the right price/year i would sign him.

Vinny still effective, could be a stop gap option for 2y. I'm not that hot on Streit. esp if he wants over 5m per...

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06-03-2013, 02:35 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
I really don't see the point of Bordeleau unless we want to ice a useless fourth line again. Either we move in the direction of having a fully competent fourth line that plays 10-12 minutes or we ice our random mish mash of players again.

If you put someone like Boyle on the fourth line, sure you can sign Nystrom and have him play there. You can't do that to Bordeleau. He's a 6 minute guy. Not who we're looking for.
The Rangers have plenty of forward who they can double shift to play with Boyle and Nystrom if need be. Boyle will get significant PK time. 3-5 minutes a game. Same with Nystrom who is as good, if not better than Boyle on the PK. That leaves their even strength TOI to about 6-7 minutes a game.

The guy hits hard and is an intimidating force. He knows his role.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
I like Nystrom, that would be a good signing regardless of the system. The 4th line needs a serious upgrade and that would be a good start.

I am even willing to trade Dorsett if the return is worth it. I was not impressed. Maybe my expectations were too high based on feedback from Jackets fans.
Dorsett is the type of player you don't trade. He is the type of player the Rangers need more of.

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06-03-2013, 02:37 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
This team has not proven that they're capable of signing the right FA's. Nothing shows me that they've learned from their mistakes. They've done two things well: Develop players from within, and turn bigger assets into smaller, perhaps more effective pieces. Stick with what works.

Torres is a dirtbag. Let's sign a guy who will play himself into a suspension. That's the ticket.

Parros is an aging enforcer. Haven't we learned our lesson with those guys yet? Get some guys who can play hockey 95% of the time and fight occasionally. Not guys who fight 95% of the time and play hockey occasionally.
If Torres is signed by the Pens, we'll see articles about his new clean image ... Only in Pittsburgh

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06-03-2013, 02:39 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
This team has not proven that they're capable of signing the right FA's. Nothing shows me that they've learned from their mistakes. They've done two things well: Develop players from within, and turn bigger assets into smaller, perhaps more effective pieces. Stick with what works.

Torres is a dirtbag. Let's sign a guy who will play himself into a suspension. That's the ticket.

Parros is an aging enforcer. Haven't we learned our lesson with those guys yet? Get some guys who can play hockey 95% of the time and fight occasionally. Not guys who fight 95% of the time and play hockey occasionally.
Originally I brought up Parros as a possible player the Rangers could move Asham for. I like Asham, but if he is going to be this team's main enforcer in this division, it's time to bring in someone else. Only 1 more year at less than 1 million. The guy can hit as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
don't know much about Bordeleau, some said he was pretty tough, young. From what you've said about Nystrom he could be good as well.

Clowe said he was fine and wants to return in the exit interviews. IDK, for the right price/year i would sign him.

Vinny still effective, could be a stop gap option for 2y. I'm not that hot on Streit. esp if he wants over 5m per...
Bordeleau is a 27 year old who improved his skating dramatically last off-season. 6'6 and he hits with a purpose. He has fought everyone. He would be good for 15-20 fights in a full year. He is good at cycling the puck and doesn't take too many dumb penalties outside of his fights/roughing.

I would still like Clowe back. Helps this teams top-9 with his size, ability to slow the game down and grit.

Nystrom is going to be a great signing for whoever signs him. Watch, it will be Pittsburgh as a replacement for Dupuis who will be overpaid.

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06-03-2013, 02:41 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
This team has not proven that they're capable of signing the right FA's. Nothing shows me that they've learned from their mistakes. They've done two things well: Develop players from within, and turn bigger assets into smaller, perhaps more effective pieces. Stick with what works.

Torres is a dirtbag. Let's sign a guy who will play himself into a suspension. That's the ticket.

Parros is an aging enforcer. Haven't we learned our lesson with those guys yet? Get some guys who can play hockey 95% of the time and fight occasionally. Not guys who fight 95% of the time and play hockey occasionally.
We have sign FAs that fit. yes they need to do a better job in that department. I see a disturbing double standard in this league concerning hitting/injury. How Matt Cooke still plays in the NHL is beyond me. I didn't think Torres' last hit was suspension worthy, but they continue to make an example of him.

Same with Ovechkin. he throws mcdonagh head first into the boards in game 7... not even a penalty? Lucic? dirty sob, but these guys get passes. NYR have to answer.

I'm not getting into a debate about tough guys fighters. Maybe Parros isn't the right guy, but i want players that can play and also throw hands...

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06-03-2013, 02:42 PM
  #225
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Zuccarrello for George Parros and a non first round pick???

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