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Do the Red Wings need an Enforcer?

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Old
06-03-2013, 06:06 AM
  #26
Henkka
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Just can't wait when Tatars, Anderssons, Millers, Eaveses, Ferraros and Sheahans circle around those Eastern 4th line pylons. It's nothing but a strength for us to have real hockeyplayers that can score in lower lines (with the matchup against them).

Fighters are useless, if the other side does not have them.

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06-03-2013, 06:34 AM
  #27
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I don't think anyone needs an enforcer...just effective toughness. A guy that plays 4 minutes a night and spends more time in the box...that's useless to a team. You need toughness that can still get you the odd goal and they can actually take a regular shift. Guys like Neil or Prust or Thornton are the acceptable tough guys in this league. The rest are just punching bags on skates. You basically want Probert or McCarty in their prime...tough guys that were actually decent players to boot.

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06-03-2013, 07:01 AM
  #28
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It just doesn't fit with the Red Wings. You had success without this kind of player, why change it?

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06-03-2013, 08:00 AM
  #29
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We have Tootoo and that's as close as will get to one and rightfully so. We don't need goons that waste roster spots and contribute nothing other than fighting.

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06-03-2013, 08:22 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Big Poppa Puck View Post
We have Tootoo and that's as close as will get to one and rightfully so. We don't need goons that waste roster spots and contribute nothing other than fighting.
I think somewhere between last September (start of the lockout) and now some have forgotten that there is still a salary cap and there's really no room under the cap for a true goon.

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06-03-2013, 08:25 AM
  #31
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Not enforcer, enforcers unforunately have no place on todays NHL. RIP. But wings as a team needs to get tougher, more physical and harder to play against, preferbable bigger as well.

Hopefully one of Clarkson/Horton/Clowe signs here in the off-season, and then go from there.

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06-03-2013, 08:29 AM
  #32
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Clarkson or Clowe, yeah. But if we get Horton the last thing I want him doing is fighting.

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06-03-2013, 09:08 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by HabsProspectsExpert View Post
It just doesn't fit with the Red Wings. You had success without this kind of player, why change it?

I think you as a Habs fan can agree with the positive impact of adding a guy like Prust and seeing the negative impact of losing a physical defenseman like Emelin before the playoffs...you need useful size/toughness in your lineup to deal with the big grinding teams in the East.

Skill is nice but you need have some beef in the lineup because the ice isn't big enough to skate around those guys. The Pens are a skill team but you need enough beef in your lineup to deal with the likes of a Boston because from Game 1, that's the type of game the Wings will have to deal with in a playoff in the East. You can't win playing pretty hockey...you need some draft horses to get you through when the game gets muddy.

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06-03-2013, 09:11 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Clarkson or Clowe, yeah. But if we get Horton the last thing I want him doing is fighting.


Yeah, Horton is probably better off in the West...you don't pay a guy $5+ million with a concussion history to take a stray fist in the mush and he's basically done for.

Clowe or Clarkson are Eastern-type guys...you need effective size. Abdelkader will work well in that conference. Franzen can work well when he wants to go all out. Bertuzzi might actually have a solid role with this team if he can stay healthy. You can't get away with smallish centers if you've at least got some bulk next to them.

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06-03-2013, 09:22 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Boston is going to win the Cup this year, for their second in three years. However, the "Boston is a dominant physical team!" gets overplayed, and what's less focused on is the dominant two-way game they play. They have all of the three keys to success:

1. Quality center depth, offensively and defensively.
2. A solid defense corps.
3. Quality goaltending.

You don't win Cups without those ingredients. Only four times since 1980 has a team missing one of those ingredients won the Cup; and twice it was Montreal.
Wait what?

Montreal in 93 had Muller, DiPietro, Carbo and Savard at center so I'd call that quality.
Their defensive corps might have been anonymous at the time and som of them were busts later on but Odelein, Haller, Desjardins, Daigneault, Brisebois were very solid.
Then we have Roy.

in 86 it was
Smith, Carbo, Skrudland and Richer.
D consisted of, Robinson, Chelios, Gingras, Green, Ludwig and Lalor. Solid as hell at the time.
Roy.

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Old
06-03-2013, 09:57 AM
  #36
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Hi guys, long time lurker and huge Red Wings fan! Just wanted to say that I've been incredibly impressed with the depth of knowledge and insight on this board over the years. This board is a true reflection of the belief that the Wings have some of the most intelligent fans around .

Anyway, I hope it's ok if I give my 2 cents in this discussion. I've never been a supporter of the enforcer role and imho, staged fighting should not have a place in today's game. In addition, Detroit's always been a classy organization built around skill, defying the critics who believed otherwise. It's one thing to have a capable fighter who can fight at opportune moments (Clarkson, Clowe, Neil, Lucic, Prust etc.), but another to have an individual on the roster whose sole responsibility is to fight opposing teams' heavyweights/instil fear or ensure that liberties are not taken on our players.

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06-03-2013, 10:03 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Big Poppa Puck View Post
We have Tootoo and that's as close as will get to one and rightfully so. We don't need goons that waste roster spots and contribute nothing other than fighting.
This.

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Old
06-03-2013, 10:05 AM
  #38
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The Wings don't need an enforcer but they could use some more size up front. It would be great to sign a guy like Clarkson who can play both roles, plus you have Tootoo as well. Those two guys should be able to get the job done.

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06-03-2013, 10:08 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Shoalzie View Post
Yeah, Horton is probably better off in the West...you don't pay a guy $5+ million with a concussion history to take a stray fist in the mush and he's basically done for.

Clowe or Clarkson are Eastern-type guys...you need effective size. Abdelkader will work well in that conference. Franzen can work well when he wants to go all out. Bertuzzi might actually have a solid role with this team if he can stay healthy. You can't get away with smallish centers if you've at least got some bulk next to them.
I agree I think Abdelkader will thrive in the East and I agree with your thoughts on Bertuzzi as well.

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06-03-2013, 04:09 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
Nope. Teams generally don't dress/use tough guys unless the team they're playing has one too. What the Wings need are strong, gritty players who can stand up for themselves while still playing strong hockey. I think they've got that right now. They'll have even more of it if they sign Clarkson.
The division Detroits moving to employs them regardless.

Wings need to get some toughness. I would take Bordeleau in a heart beat but hes about the only goon I woul want.

You'll all change your tune when Orr takes Zetterbergs head off next season.

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06-03-2013, 04:17 PM
  #41
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The division Detroits moving to employs them regardless.

Wings need to get some toughness. I would take Bordeleau in a heart beat but hes about the only goon I woul want.

You'll all change your tune when Orr takes Zetterbergs head off next season.
Living in Toronto, I've seen Orr play plenty of times and it's easy to assume that because of his size, physicality and toughness that he'd frequently "take off a skilled players' head". However, skilled players are pretty smart and typically avoid situations where they leave themselves exposed and you likely won't ever catch an opposing coach playing his fourth line against either Datsyuk or Zetterberg; it's the quickest way for them to get embarrassed and scored on.

Also, if you don't engage an enforcer, they are unlikely to fight and will pick up a roughing penalty if they try to initiate and we don't respond. I do agree with the overall premise of your comment, which is that we need more toughness. I'd prefer to see a player like Clowe or Clarkson brought in that can actually play hockey and a clean, tough and physical brand to boot.

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06-03-2013, 04:17 PM
  #42
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That's the thing, though. With no tough guys on Detroit, there's no real point in dressing Orr. If you do, he probably takes a penalty and might lose you the game. If he tries to hurt a Wing with a dirty play, he probably loses you the game AND gets himself suspended, which means he isn't around against teams that actually have enforcers. If he lays somebody like Zetterberg out with a clean hit, then that's an unfortunate accident, but nothing worth getting an enforcer for.

Enforcers have no purpose in a game that can be won or lost on a single power play.

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06-03-2013, 04:21 PM
  #43
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Plus, enforcers aren't evil guys. They don't cackle evilly as they go after non-fighters who haven't done anything. Most of those guys still believe in a code and only go after cheap players, pests, or other fighters. Zetterberg takes like 40 pim a year and gives out about that many hits, all of them weak. He won't be a target.

Maybe you come from the school of thought that says skill guys need to be protected from physical play. I don't. If they can't handle being hit cleanly, they're in the wrong league.

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06-03-2013, 04:27 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
Plus, enforcers aren't evil guys. They don't cackle evilly as they go after non-fighters who haven't done anything. Most of those guys still believe in a code and only go after cheap players, pests, or other fighters. Zetterberg takes like 40 pim a year and gives out about that many hits, all of them weak. He won't be a target.
It's really not the enforcers we should be worried about, but the pests like Marchand, Ott etc. who enjoy engaging in the dirty hits/plays (Cooke, Rinaldo etc. in the East as well) that will try and take liberties on our players.

The only rational explanation for an enforcer would be to deter pests. However, in Tootoo, we already have enough of a deterrent for them to keep it "clean".

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06-03-2013, 04:32 PM
  #45
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No they dont need one.. And you dont need big guys for the sake of having big guys... Rather have players that play big and we have enough of those. (but could use a few more). All i see this as is a way detroit sees a lot more power play time and more goals. Id much rather see that then fighting as much as i love a good fight. Its not nearly as big an issue as some think going to the east.

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06-03-2013, 06:15 PM
  #46
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I don't think we need an enforcer, though I would like to see one of Bickell/Clarkson/Clowe wearing the winged wheel next season, along with Tootoo still on the 4th line. While still playing the Andersson/Nyquist/Tatar third line. Keep the same core, add a little more youth and grit, and go east!

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Old
06-03-2013, 06:31 PM
  #47
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No, they don't need one. The East has a lot more staged fighting, we just won't be one of the teams doing that.

Best chance for an enforcer is years off and goes by the name Mike McKee.
I'm betting on Nedomlel.

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06-03-2013, 06:35 PM
  #48
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Yep, because it's easy to just go out and get a Shanahan.

I would settle for a Cam Neely.

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Old
06-03-2013, 06:39 PM
  #49
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I was once on the side of we need an enforcer to keep the other side honest it but times have changed. Other western teams that had a true enforcer ended up scratching them against the Wings anyways or we just relied on our PP. I think the Wings were the reason this changed in the west and I think will see it more in the east when teams realize their carrying a 12th man who gets 2 minutes of ice time.

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06-04-2013, 02:39 AM
  #50
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Brendan Shanahan is our enforcer.

And I mean he really is.

Punishment with lost salary is all the time making dirty guys cleaner and cleaner.

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