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2013 Offseason Thread Part III: Free Agents Suck

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06-03-2013, 04:35 PM
  #251
Trxjw
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Really what this proves is these teams and their fans are more patient than the Rangers fans.
Where else would you see posts about a 22 year old dman with 3 seasons of 37+ points (had 21 this season, but on pace for 37-38), being stupid, has low IQ and cannot progress anymore.
Unfortunately the immediate gratification factor is something that permeates across sports in general. Most people realize that's not the story with Del Zotto, but a lot of people just need a whipping boy. Girardi gives this team years of simple, effective hockey with few mistakes and with one bad game against Boston a lot of the posters on here are throwing him under the bus or trying to give him away for nothing. It's embarrassing.

That being said, I'll trade anyone under the right circumstances.


Last edited by JeffMangum: 06-03-2013 at 04:48 PM.
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06-03-2013, 04:35 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Really what this proves is these teams and their fans are more patient than the Rangers fans.
Where else would you see posts about a 22 year old dman with 3 seasons of 37+ points (had 21 this season, but on pace for 37-38), being stupid, has low IQ and cannot progress anymore.
Uh, no it doesn't. Take a look at any team with a strong fan base.

People are allowed to like/dislike certain young players - it's not always about 'patience.' I assume you are referring to DZ. He's a solid player, but his play in the physical playoffs worries me. The fact that he is supposed to be an offensive defenseman, but seems incapable on the PP worries me. I don't hate him, but you'd better believe that I'd consider moving him IF the offer is right. That doesn't necessarily mean I'm 'inpatient.' I'm just not overly impressed by this players future.

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06-03-2013, 04:58 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Barnaby View Post
Uh, no it doesn't. Take a look at any team with a strong fan base.

People are allowed to like/dislike certain young players - it's not always about 'patience.' I assume you are referring to DZ. He's a solid player, but his play in the physical playoffs worries me. The fact that he is supposed to be an offensive defenseman, but seems incapable on the PP worries me. I don't hate him, but you'd better believe that I'd consider moving him IF the offer is right. That doesn't necessarily mean I'm 'inpatient.' I'm just not overly impressed by this players future.
That's actually my point.
He has scored 41, 37, 37 (Edit: Just to be crystal clear, he has scored 21 points this season which translates to 37-38 for full season) points in 3 or his 4 years in the NHL.
Look around the league how many 22 year olds have produced like he has?
Dman hit their prime around 25-26 years old. Given what he has accomplished so far, I can only imagine what he'll be like in 3 years.
Now, I can understand people are not impressed by his current youthful inconsistencies, but I don't understand how they are not intrigued by his potential.

And yeah sure, everybody is tradable at the right price.

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06-03-2013, 05:19 PM
  #254
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lets see what DZ does under a new coach unless we can move him for top scoring help

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06-03-2013, 05:36 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Each year Rangers fans spend May-July pining over the players other teams have drafted. Meanwhile the perennial contenders keep filling in the holes around the core they've built. Chicago loses Bickell to FA and they can replace him with Kyle Beach. Saad, Morin, Clendenning, etc. All players that can fill in around the core.

The Rangers tried to do it in reverse. Build a team of support players while adding in the elite talent via free agency. Clarke admitted that was the strategy. It failed miserably. Yet, almost by accident, the team now has a younger, more talented core than they've had in god knows how long. Time for a new plan that centralizes around guys like Stepan and McDonagh.

If Hank decides he's not staying, does Dolan finally muscle Sather out of the day-to-day ops and let someone else take over?
But a part of that elite core was drafted 1st and 3rd overall: Kane and Toews. As fans, we have not been blessed with a level of suckitude to draft 1st and 3rd back-to-back years.

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06-03-2013, 05:47 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by LetterJ View Post
But a part of that elite core was drafted 1st and 3rd overall: Kane and Toews. As fans, we have not been blessed with a level of suckitude to draft 1st and 3rd back-to-back years.

Red Wings dont and they pick great players in the later rounds (Holmstrom last pick in 1994, 7th round Zetterberg in 99, 6th round Datsyuk in 98, Ericsson was a 9th round pick in 2002,
Valtteri Filppula 3rd round pick in 2002, Franzen 3rd round in 2002. )or as undrafted UFA.. that is no excuse.. most of those players were drafted out of sweden, maybe NYR should draft more out of sweden in the future.. but seriously if you have a great scouting staff, that is all that matters.... Red Wings made the playoffs for a long time while at the same time continuing to rebuild. NYR should follow this method... they have had two decades of solid core players from Yzerman to Fedorov to Shannahan, Lidstrom Osgood, to Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Ericsson, Howard, Filppula, Franzen)

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06-03-2013, 05:51 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
Red Wings dont and they pick great players in the later rounds (Holmstrom last pick in 1994, 7th round Zetterberg in 99, 6th round Datsyuk in 98, Ericsson was a 9th round pick in 2002,
Valtteri Filppula 3rd round pick in 2002, Franzen 3rd round in 2002. )or as undrafted UFA.. that is no excuse.. most of those players were drafted out of sweden, maybe NYR should draft more out of sweden in the future.. but seriously if you have a great scouting staff, that is all that matters.... Red Wings made the playoffs for a long time while at the same time continuing to rebuild. NYR should follow this method... they have had two decades of solid core players from Yzerman to Fedorov to Shannahan, Lidstrom Osgood, to Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Ericsson, Howard, Filppula, Franzen)
The Red Wings are ONE franchise out of the entire NHL. Boston has done a GREAT job as well of solidly drafting. Pittsburgh and Chicago TANKED for several years and are now reaping the benefits.

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06-03-2013, 05:57 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Speculation based on the premise of TB drafting Drouin/MacKinnon at #3. Off-chance Stevie goes Russian again and takes Nichuskin. Some Bolts fans think that Connolly would then become expendable for a defender.
Bolts fans want Gormley from Phoenix in any deal for Connolly. Given that, I don`t think we would be happy with the price!

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06-03-2013, 05:57 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by LetterJ View Post
The Red Wings are ONE franchise out of the entire NHL. Boston has done a GREAT job as well of solidly drafting. Pittsburgh and Chicago TANKED for several years and are now reaping the benefits.
it didnt work out for the Capitals. tanking doesnt mean anything...

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06-03-2013, 06:01 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Asham doesn't have the sense of when and where to draw the line.
You guys crack me up. "Asham can't keep up with the play". "he doesn't
Know where to draw the line". Asham is a solid 4th liner with a dangerous shot, good defensive smarts and the ability to drop the gloves with most
Guys in the league. He will be on our 4th line next year book it. He and Dorsett will be good 4th line wings hopefully centered by an older more responsible JT Miller.

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06-03-2013, 06:08 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
That's actually my point.
He has scored 41, 37, 37 (Edit: Just to be crystal clear, he has scored 21 points this season which translates to 37-38 for full season) points in 3 or his 4 years in the NHL.
Look around the league how many 22 year olds have produced like he has?
Dman hit their prime around 25-26 years old. Given what he has accomplished so far, I can only imagine what he'll be like in 3 years.
Now, I can understand people are not impressed by his current youthful inconsistencies, but I don't understand how they are not intrigued by his potential.

And yeah sure, everybody is tradable at the right price.
DZ has shown he can put up some points. The
Problem for me is that he is not developing on the defensive side of the game
And sometimes appears downright lazy. There is talent that could blossom. It's his head and heart that cause concern.

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06-03-2013, 06:10 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Briere and his wife split up. She still lives in south Jersey with the kids. Briere would look for a team close to south Jersey. Rangers. Devils. Caps.
RB, you AMAZE me w/where you dig up this stuff from. Constantly.

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06-03-2013, 06:12 PM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
You guys crack me up. "Asham can't keep up with the play". "he doesn't
Know where to draw the line". Asham is a solid 4th liner with a dangerous shot, good defensive smarts and the ability to drop the gloves with most
Guys in the league. He will be on our 4th line next year book it. He and Dorsett will be good 4th line wings hopefully centered by an older more responsible JT Miller.
He can drop the gloves, he just doesn't drop them when the team needs a spark. It takes an understanding of the moment to do it. Asham doesn't have it. Prust had it, Clowe has it.

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06-03-2013, 06:13 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
With so many players ahead of him on the depth chart:

Fast
Linderg
Miller
Kreider
Thomas
Hrivik

I am not sure I can envision him making the NHL with this team.
Don't see Christian making the cut.
Other vacancies now (Pyatt)

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06-03-2013, 06:18 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by LetterJ View Post
But a part of that elite core was drafted 1st and 3rd overall: Kane and Toews. As fans, we have not been blessed with a level of suckitude to draft 1st and 3rd back-to-back years.
That's our own doing. Chicago had the piece of mind to take their medicine and look where it got them. We've insisted we could buy a cup contender for decades. We've won a single cup in 70+ years. We tried to be good and instead managed to suck. In my book, that's way worse than sucking and winding up with some elite talent and a Stanley Cup.

That's NY sports. Envy everyone else's talent, but thumb your nose up because they had the humility to get them.

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06-03-2013, 06:19 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by MacTruck View Post
Obviously hinging on the buyout of Lecavalier.
I'd give him 2 years, 4m per and give Clowe one year at 3.5

Jones or Nystrom at 2-3 years, 1.5-2m.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($1.325m) / Derek Stepan ($3.500m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Ryane Clowe ($3.500m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.000m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.275m)
Carl Hagelin ($1.800m) / Derick Brassard ($3.200m) / Mats Zuccarello ($0.735m)
Ryan Jones ($1.750m) / Brian Boyle ($1.700m) / Derek Dorsett ($1.633m)
Arron Asham ($1.000m) / Taylor Pyatt ($1.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.000m) / Dan Girardi ($3.325m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Michael Del Zotto ($2.550m)
John Moore ($0.965m) / Anton Stralman ($1.700m)
Dylan McIlrath ($1.295m) /
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m)
Martin Biron ($1.300m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,753,333; BONUSES: $1,650,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $2,196,667

The top 6 is bigger and more skilled with Clowe, and Vinny L and the bottom six is fast and skilled as well.
That is a DEEP team
No Clowe
too slow
so please no dough
keeping that other 2nd is the way to go.

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06-03-2013, 06:35 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
No Clowe
too slow
so please no dough
keeping that other 2nd is the way to go.


Agreed 100%.

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06-03-2013, 06:54 PM
  #268
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Henrik Lundqvist made this team Tank-proof. If you look at what all these "tanking" teams have in common, "missing elite goaltender" is something they all share.

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06-03-2013, 07:01 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
Henrik Lundqvist made this team Tank-proof. If you look at what all these "tanking" teams have in common, "missing elite goaltender" is something they all share.
True, but if they ever want to take that route (not likely) he's either going to bring back some nice peices for the rank our you can just wait until he's a ufa and not bring him back

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06-03-2013, 08:55 PM
  #270
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Yotes fan coming in peace. I think there's the potential for a trade involving Rundblad, but is Richards being bought out still a done deal even after the sacking of Tortorella? Reason I ask is because we'd probably ask for Miller.

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06-03-2013, 09:04 PM
  #271
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Yotes fan coming in peace. I think there's the potential for a trade involving Rundblad, but is Richards being bought out still a done deal even after the sacking of Tortorella?
I'd say there's a 95% chance of it happening. Richards, flat out, sucked this year. There's a risk involved in keeping him for 13/14 — if he ends up getting injured and needing offseason surgery, then the Rangers can't buy him out and would be, in essence, ****ed.

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Originally Posted by IPreferPi View Post
Reason I ask is because we'd probably ask for Miller.
Doubt that would happen. Management is very high on Miller, and rightfully so. He's a pretty safe bet to be a very good 3rd line player, with the potential to be even better. I'd compare him to Mike Richards. They're not 100% similar build-wise, but the style of play is. Miller is big, strong, physical, and a good playmaker. Can play both wing and center.

I think Thomas two of our third rounders makes more sense. Similar to the Sangunetti deal. Rundblad definitely has some nice tools, but I question if his game will translate to the NHL level. He didn't seem like a very smart player when I watched him in Ottawa, and with his lack of size/strength, that would be his saving grace defensively.

Don't know if Phoenix would make that trade, though.

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06-03-2013, 09:19 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
I'd say there's a 95% chance of it happening. Richards, flat out, sucked this year. There's a risk involved in keeping him for 13/14 — if he ends up getting injured and needing offseason surgery, then the Rangers can't buy him out and would be, in essence, ****ed.



Doubt that would happen. Management is very high on Miller, and rightfully so. He's a pretty safe bet to be a very good 3rd line player, with the potential to be even better. I'd compare him to Mike Richards. They're not 100% similar build-wise, but the style of play is. Miller is big, strong, physical, and a good playmaker. Can play both wing and center.

I think Thomas two of our third rounders makes more sense. Similar to the Sangunetti deal. Rundblad definitely has some nice tools, but I question if his game will translate to the NHL level. He didn't seem like a very smart player when I watched him in Ottawa, and with his lack of size/strength, that would be his saving grace defensively.

Don't know if Phoenix would make that trade, though.
FWIW, Rundblad has definitely improved his play in his own end in his time in Portland. He's still a little erratic and will definitely need some sheltering at first, but he's no longer a turnstile in his own end and has even played the PK. 9G and 39 points this season in 50 AHL games while being a +9. For us, he's developing on schedule - not every defenseman can contribute at an early age like OEL.

And I'll disagree with your characterization of Rundblad lacking size/strength. He's 6'2 and 190 lbs. He's never going to be a thumper, but he doesn't shy away from contact either.

Anyways, totally understand if Miller isn't available. But Thomas and a pair of 3rds isn't what we would be looking for if GMDM were to move Rundblad. Far from it.

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06-03-2013, 09:21 PM
  #273
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Elliot Friedman wrote an article today that the NYR could possibly circumvent the last 3 yrs of Richards contract with LTIR, or the player could not report (Tim thomas) and be suspended.

The worse thing about Richards is his contract and the new CBA. I've no doubt that he'll bounce back. He may never be a 80p center again, but if used properly by a new coach maybe he can be a 60-65p guy for another 2-3 yrs.

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06-03-2013, 09:21 PM
  #274
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Thought he was closer to 6'. Could definitely put on some more muscle, but 6'2 is less worrisome.

Understood. I think Phoenix would be better off packaging him for a legitimate top-6 center rather than a prospect swap.

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06-03-2013, 09:24 PM
  #275
IPreferPi
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Thought he was closer to 6'. Could definitely put on some more muscle, but 6'2 is less worrisome.

Understood. I think Phoenix would be better off packaging him for a legitimate top-6 center rather than a prospect swap.
Yeah, I've been trying to do that around here on HF - so far, there really aren't any takers lol. But thanks. Worst case scenario, we finally give him significant NHL time on the bottom pairing next season and his value improves.

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