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Pierre Groulx's contract will not be renewed

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Old
06-03-2013, 04:50 PM
  #76
Godzilla
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
I wonder what Hackett is doing these days.
I think he is coaching minor hockey in Ontario or something...

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06-03-2013, 04:58 PM
  #77
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Having a wide butterfly and having your glove hand in the fingers up position are two things every goalie should do. I do however agree with the rest of your description and ire towards Allaire. It would be a disaster to get him.
You should never encourage a goaltender to play with a wider butterfly than what their body is comfortable with. It makes movements like butterfly slides and leg extension saves difficult. This season Reimer is playing with a more narrow butterfly, something that he is much more comfortable with.

Finger up position, Yes. Permanent high glove in every situation? Not so much. There is a difference between keeping your glove high (Around shoulder to chin area), and having your glove at head level. If you're keeping your glove at head level, you're unnecessarily covering the area just over the crossbar. Which is what Reimer was doing, causing him to be continually beat just over the pad, around the hip, and through the arm.

I'm not trying to undermine Allaire's techniques, since he is, and has been, a successful NHL goaltending coach for years. However, my opinions on technique and philosophy differ greatly.

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06-03-2013, 05:00 PM
  #78
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rask
Well, technically he is 26 (10 March 1987).

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06-03-2013, 05:02 PM
  #79
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rask
Rask is 26.

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06-03-2013, 05:06 PM
  #80
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People are throwing Groulx under the bus here but Groulx was hired in the summer of 2009.

In 2009-10 Halak had his godlike season.
In 2010-11 Price had a great season.

I don't know who is responsible for what but clearly 2 starting goalies are capable of having great seasons with Groulx as coach so he can't have been that bad. And we don't know whether the flaws in Price's game are due to things that Groulx is teaching him, or to things that Price wanted to do, or did not apply properly.

I just hope that this change brings positive results.

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06-03-2013, 05:07 PM
  #81
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Last chance for Price would be to hire Olaf Kolzig. If Tri-City mentor isn't able to help him....a change of scenery will.

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06-03-2013, 05:13 PM
  #82
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I think he'll be on Hockey360 tonight.

By he I mean Francois Allaire.

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06-03-2013, 05:15 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Last chance for Price would be to hire Olaf Kolzig. If Tri-City mentor isn't able to help him....a change of scenery will.
He's 25. Don't think he's at "last chance" point yet.

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06-03-2013, 05:16 PM
  #84
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Rask is 26.
.. they were both born in 87, carey is like 2-3 months older than rask

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06-03-2013, 05:18 PM
  #85
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.. they were both born in 87, carey is like 2-3 months older than rask
Other way around. Price is younger.

March comes before August.

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06-03-2013, 05:19 PM
  #86
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He's 25. Don't think he's at "last chance" point yet.
In Montreal he is. He's around for quite some time now. He doesn't do well with a new coach or has poor playoffs, you don't really think people will let that go do you? I would and I'm not Price biggest fan, but there are harsher people than me around. And Habs will feel the pressure. You would hope that you can at least give him 2 more years though.

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06-03-2013, 05:19 PM
  #87
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So Groulx is gone next to go : Pierre Allard, Nick Addey-Jibb and Graham Rynbend

This team need a real physical training mode and Greater therapist ... not a wussy ***** softy yoga specialist!!!

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06-03-2013, 05:22 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by TT1 View Post
.. they were both born in 87, carey is like 2-3 months older than rask
but price is CLEARLY better and he used those 2-3 months extra to store some Costco food under the bell center to ensure he doesn't have to go out and live among us crazy human beings who expect hardwork from a guy paid 6m.

the only thing I was joking about was when I said he was clearly better than rask. he's not.

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06-03-2013, 05:25 PM
  #89
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Name me an other goalie 25 or younger, you would take before Price to start a franchise
The age factor is relevant when a player improves year after year. Then we can say that the player has an untapped potential that is realizing itself at a certain pace.

For Price, I have not noticed constant improvement. If anything I've noticed regression in his game. This is not a good sign.

Now by your criterias there are precious few goalies that I'd rather have. But I'll name one that will make you shake your head and call me names : Holtby. I would not be surprised to see him be better than Price in 2-3 years.

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06-03-2013, 05:27 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
The age factor is relevant when a player improves year after year. Then we can say that the player has an untapped potential that is realizing itself at a certain pace.

For Price, I have not noticed constant improvement. If anything I've noticed regression in his game. This is not a good sign.

Now by your criterias there are precious few goalies that I'd rather have. But I'll name one that will make you shake your head and call me names : Holtby. I would not be surprised to see him be better than Price in 2-3 years.
Same here. Like every freakin word of it. But you knew that already.

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06-03-2013, 05:27 PM
  #91
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The Price bashing continues... every ****ing thread ..

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06-03-2013, 05:31 PM
  #92
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In the end, the goalie coach needs to go back to the basics. We've drafted Price for what reason? Go back to what made you succesful. I remember clearly Price in Hamilton in the playoffs and last year Price and honestly, you would think that last year was Price at 20 and the Hamilton playoffs was at 25. But more likely, the goalie coach needs to work on the mental aspect of the game.

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06-03-2013, 05:44 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by habdynasty View Post
The Price bashing continues... every ****ing thread ..
Its Price bashing, trade Plekanec and MOAR size.

I would welcome a new goalie coach aboard the team. Hopefully its someone who complements Prices style and imo should be interviewing with Price and Bergy.

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06-03-2013, 05:44 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal961 View Post
You should never encourage a goaltender to play with a wider butterfly than what their body is comfortable with. It makes movements like butterfly slides and leg extension saves difficult. This season Reimer is playing with a more narrow butterfly, something that he is much more comfortable with.

Finger up position, Yes. Permanent high glove in every situation? Not so much. There is a difference between keeping your glove high (Around shoulder to chin area), and having your glove at head level. If you're keeping your glove at head level, you're unnecessarily covering the area just over the crossbar. Which is what Reimer was doing, causing him to be continually beat just over the pad, around the hip, and through the arm.

I'm not trying to undermine Allaire's techniques, since he is, and has been, a successful NHL goaltending coach for years. However, my opinions on technique and philosophy differ greatly.
No, but you should train to increase the width of your butterfly in the off-season so when you are in situations where you can't see the shot and you have to go into a blocking coverage, you have the post to post area covered.

The way I was taught (and let me say this, pretty much through research because I picked up the game at 19 by my own) is that you should have your fingers up and glove about shoulder height, out enough so that you can see your glove hand in your peripheral vision so that you are able to track the puck into your glove easier. The closer the puck gets to the body, the lower to the ice it must go, because if you are facing a shot from in tight, the puck doesn't have time to elevate, thus you bring your glove hand lower to the ice and your fingers come forward a bit more to block the angle of flight.

I understand what you mean about Allaire's teaching, initial stance, high glove, visually take away more of the net from the shooter, when the shot is coming, bring it down into your actual ready stance, the closer the puck is, the lower your glove hand, but you still want your fingers up to reduce the upwards trajectory of the puck.

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Old
06-03-2013, 06:19 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by montreal961 View Post
2009-2010 (Marlies) 14-8-2 (Wins/Loss/OTL), 2.25 (GAA), .925 (SV%)
2010-2011 (Marlies) 9-5-1 (Wins/Loss/OTL), 2.59 (GAA), .920 (SV%)
2010-2011 (Leafs) 20-10-5 (Wins/Loss/OTL), 2.60 (GAA), .921 (SV%) (Allaire Half)
2011-2012 (Leafs) 14-14-4 (Wins/Loss/OTL), 3.10 (GAA), .900 (SV%) (Alaire)
2012-2013 (Leafs) 19-8-5 (Wins/Loss/OTL), 2.46 (GAA), .924 (SV%) (S.t Croix)
2013 Playoffs (Leafs) 3-2-2 (Wins/Loss/OTL), 2.88 (GAA), .923 (SV%) (S.t Croix)

No Doubt that Reimer's lowest years were under Allaire. Allaire transformed Reimer into a blocker style goaltender. Not to mention how he completely and utterly ruined Gustavsson by doing the exact same thing. Both of these goalies were athletically based goalies, who were forced to play like robots. They didn't have the frame, discipline, and knowledge/experience that it requires to be a blocking type goaltender. It worked with JS Giguere because he had all of those tools and previous blocking style knowledge.

S.t Croix started off by telling Reimer to revert back to what made him successful. If you check out video from when Reimer played in 2011-2012, and then check out video from this past season, you will see a huge difference. Reimer changed his style from a blocking goaltender to an athletic/hybrid based goaltender for this season. He was freed from the restrictions that were placed on him by Allaire (ie: Always keeping glove position at high, Achieve a widest possible butterfly, reduced desperation save method, stay on knees, ect). With Rick's hire, he was able to make positive changes to his game. Those changes were in large part due to the freedom that S.t Croix gives his goaltenders. He doesn't instill a style on a goalie, he recognizes the style that makes them successful and works with that. He improves that style instead of changing it.
You really seem to know your stuff, like I said, the only thing that had me wondering was the fact that St Croix basically had 1 week to work with Riemer before the season started, but I guess through of the season he probably fixed his game up.

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06-03-2013, 06:21 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
People are throwing Groulx under the bus here but Groulx was hired in the summer of 2009.

In 2009-10 Halak had his godlike season.
In 2010-11 Price had a great season.

I don't know who is responsible for what but clearly 2 starting goalies are capable of having great seasons with Groulx as coach so he can't have been that bad. And we don't know whether the flaws in Price's game are due to things that Groulx is teaching him, or to things that Price wanted to do, or did not apply properly.

I just hope that this change brings positive results.
Ya Groulx was also the goalie coach with the Panthers when Craig Anderson had a few good years before going to the Avs.

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Old
06-03-2013, 06:23 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
You really seem to know your stuff, like I said, the only thing that had me wondering was the fact that St Croix basically had 1 week to work with Riemer before the season started, but I guess through of the season he probably fixed his game up.
Except for rebounds.

Reimer gave way more rebounds than you'd expect from a goalie in the AHL. He had the athleticism to get back and stop some of them, but he should have needed to. That and the team in front of him gave up a lot of shots.

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06-03-2013, 06:26 PM
  #98
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Might sound crazy but I think that Marc Denis would be a decent coach for Price, considering he's been hitting the right points all season long in his commentaries.

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06-03-2013, 06:33 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
The age factor is relevant when a player improves year after year. Then we can say that the player has an untapped potential that is realizing itself at a certain pace.

For Price, I have not noticed constant improvement. If anything I've noticed regression in his game. This is not a good sign.

Now by your criterias there are precious few goalies that I'd rather have. But I'll name one that will make you shake your head and call me names : Holtby. I would not be surprised to see him be better than Price in 2-3 years.

I see what you mean by constant improvement and that seems to be missing from Price, but most goalies aren't actually full time starters until around 26-27, and then go through a few ups and downs. IMO Price is the same thing expect he is going through his up an downs at an earlier age, and I remember Gainey saying that the main reason for having a Price be a number 1 goalie at such a young age to spend the process.

Now this doesn't mean Price is actually going to achieve his full potential, but I mean he has done a decent job when you consider his age, the defense he has in front of him, not that they are a bad d-men, but having 1 D-men over 6'1 for most of the year is an issue when clearing guys out in front of the net.

Also agree about Holtby, could be one of better than Price, but him too, he'll have his up and downs.

Even Rask, I remember one year, he stole the starting job from Thomas, and lost it to Thomas the next year, Thomas played lights out, but Rask wasn't that great.

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06-03-2013, 06:36 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Except for rebounds.

Reimer gave way more rebounds than you'd expect from a goalie in the AHL. He had the athleticism to get back and stop some of them, but he should have needed to. That and the team in front of him gave up a lot of shots.
And high glove, he gets beat every time there, specially in shootouts, if you look at some highlights, its like he knows the player is going high glove and he can't stop it, kinda feel bad for him lol

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