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2013 Offseason Thread Part III: Free Agents Suck

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Old
06-03-2013, 08:30 PM
  #276
TheRightWay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Unfortunately the immediate gratification factor is something that permeates across sports in general. Most people realize that's not the story with Del Zotto, but a lot of people just need a whipping boy. Girardi gives this team years of simple, effective hockey with few mistakes and with one bad game against Boston a lot of the posters on here are throwing him under the bus or trying to give him away for nothing. It's embarrassing.

That being said, I'll trade anyone under the right circumstances.
Remember when Tyutin had a poor end to the season and it was the same crap with him? Now we see proposals popping up bringing Tyutin back to NY on the trade boards every month. If Glen Sather traded a player every time this forum was down on him our entire roster would be shipped out by the end of a season.

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Old
06-03-2013, 08:32 PM
  #277
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Agree with Trxjw and TRW.

Knee jerk reactions and instant gratification hurt in the long run. Whipping boys do no help

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Old
06-03-2013, 08:53 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
That's actually my point.
He has scored 41, 37, 37 (Edit: Just to be crystal clear, he has scored 21 points this season which translates to 37-38 for full season) points in 3 or his 4 years in the NHL.
Look around the league how many 22 year olds have produced like he has?
Dman hit their prime around 25-26 years old. Given what he has accomplished so far, I can only imagine what he'll be like in 3 years.
Now, I can understand people are not impressed by his current youthful inconsistencies, but I don't understand how they are not intrigued by his potential.

And yeah sure, everybody is tradable at the right price.
Actually D-men hit their prime around29/30+. Which makes the prospect of trading DZ even more laughable.

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Old
06-03-2013, 08:58 PM
  #279
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I don't know what's worse, that people want to trade Del Zotto/Zucc for inferior pieces or that salary is the only thing keeping people away from wanting to bring Clowe.

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06-03-2013, 08:59 PM
  #280
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Honestly I think everyone is mad with him because of the bad decisions he makes but everyone else does make bad decisions. It'll pass.

Ultimately we should keep DZ. No reason to ship him out ...yet

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06-03-2013, 09:09 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Guess What View Post
Honestly I think everyone is mad with him because of the bad decisions he makes but everyone else does make bad decisions. It'll pass.

Ultimately we should keep DZ. No reason to ship him out ...yet
we should've traded Prucha when Chicago wanted to send us Seabrook...

send dumbzotto packing...

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Old
06-03-2013, 09:20 PM
  #282
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Yotes fan coming in peace. I think there's the potential for a trade involving Rundblad, but is Richards being bought out still a done deal even after the sacking of Tortorella? Reason I ask is because we'd probably ask for Miller.
To pick up the discussion from the trade boards. I don't think Miller is doable. I offered Michael St Croix. I do understand your point of needing more NHL ready players. i think that's fair, but I just can't think of another center the Rangers can afford to trade for Rundblad. Not too deep at the position.

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Old
06-03-2013, 09:29 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by MetalGodAOD View Post
Actually D-men hit their prime around29/30+. Which makes the prospect of trading DZ even more laughable.
Hardly. The idea of trading DZ for an equally valuable forward makes sense considering the lack of offensive depth up front and the depth the Rangers have on D.

The people just trying to trade Del Zotto for the sake of it, that's laughable, but the organization should seriously consider looking into getting a top-6 forward for DZ. Good player who could turn out great, the the Rangers need offense, and moving DZ makes the most sense if they're going to do that.

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06-03-2013, 09:57 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Hardly. The idea of trading DZ for an equally valuable forward makes sense considering the lack of offensive depth up front and the depth the Rangers have on D.

The people just trying to trade Del Zotto for the sake of it, that's laughable, but the organization should seriously consider looking into getting a top-6 forward for DZ. Good player who could turn out great, the the Rangers need offense, and moving DZ makes the most sense if they're going to do that.
The argument is what is "equal value"? Trading him for MPS doesn't meet that criteria IMO.

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06-03-2013, 10:23 PM
  #285
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Horton is going to get paid this summer.

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06-03-2013, 11:54 PM
  #286
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The idea of acquiring a right handed offensive defensive prospect ready to break out is good in theory. However, the purpose of doing that will be to bump Stralman to the third pair where he can be effective. Do any of Blum, Ellis, Barrie, Elliot, Demers, or Braun have good shots from the point? As far as I know they're all pass first puck movers. Nothing that would really fix the power play. All of these guys at this point would get exposed playing second pairing minutes too.

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06-04-2013, 12:41 AM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
The argument is what is "equal value"? Trading him for MPS doesn't meet that criteria IMO.
You have to find a player like Evander Kane, one who also has high potential and has sniffed at it but hasn't exploded onto the scene sort of speak. I'd love it to be Kane, but that's a total pipe dream and WPG doesn't need MDZ. Also, I'd say the value isn't there on our end, but that's the type of player I think you should/could move him for. A low risk/high reward type. I can't think of anyone else off the top of my head because I'm tired, and it's hard to say if you could actually get one for MDZ.

Trading him just because people came up with a lame moniker for him and think he needs to be traded doesn't make much sense. But I do like guys like McDonagh/Moore and possibly Skjei more for their mobility and solid defense while bringing some offense. If you have two or three solid to very good two way d-men do you really need an offensive d-man who is a liability at times? We have one, Moore looks promising, and it's too early to tell with Skjei but we'll see.

Read a really good article on McDonagh back when we got him in the trade, his coach at college said he could be a top pairing defensive d-man or a top pairing offensive d-man in the NHL and his issue was he needed to define himself as a player. Obviously he has done that now and chose the defensive side, but he does have more offense than I think we've ever witnessed. Maybe a new coach can help him integrate that into his game.

Also interested in what a new coach might be able to do with Thomas, if anything. I think he could potentially slot in on the 2nd line if the system allows that type of player and he does some work.

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Old
06-04-2013, 06:37 AM
  #288
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Trade Del Zotto for equal value. Why is that so hard to understand? Get value in return. DZ is a very good player.

Look at the Rangers roster and the number of players up for new contracts in the next 13 months.

http://capgeek.com/rangers/

Compliance buyout Richards. Torts wanted him here. Richards came here because of Torts. Sather terminated Torts last Wednesday.

Re-signing the 2013 and 2014 group IIs will not be cheap. DZ is up for another contract in 2014.

Re-signing Lundqvist,Callahan and Girardi will not be cheap.

Make an addition or two.

Even with the 2014-15 cap going to up to say $67M,it will be very tight.

The Rangers need to change the team. Look at Chicago and Boston.

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Old
06-04-2013, 06:58 AM
  #289
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Trading Del Zotto isn't a knee jerk reaction just because he's young. Unless Wile E. Coyote permanently implants his Acme rocket up Del Zotto's rear end, he's never going to have the foot speed to be an effective puck carrier. And unless Dr. Doofenshmirtz figures out how to implant a smarter brain into Del Zotto's skull, he's never going to be able to lead the offense from the back end.

In other words, Del Zotto isn't the player we need. He's awful on the right side and McDonagh, Staal, and Moore should lock up the left side long-term. Girardi and (hopefully) Stralman lock up two of the right spots. He's ineffective on the power play.

Del Zotto is up for a new contract in 2014. He's going to cash in. We already have more important players to extend before that.

Trade Del Zotto for a forward that has breakout potential. Paajarvi on his own isn't "equal value" yet, which is why you add a little on your end (2013 3rd round pick) and Edmonton adds on their end (Jeff Petry and 2013 2nd round pick). That's "equal value" and fills more then one hole.

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06-04-2013, 07:30 AM
  #290
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MPS could succeed in the right environment here. Stick him on a 2nd line with Brassard and Callahan and he has the potential to put up serious points. Still, he's prime to break out, but who's to say he will? Edmonton will have to add if they want Del Zotto.

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Old
06-04-2013, 07:32 AM
  #291
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Del Zotto is a coveted piece around the NHL, and the rationale is selling high on a guy who is both slightly redundant (fact, we have plenty of LD's) and overvalued (IMO, relies too heavily on his partner, too little impact at ES).

Maybe he'll come alive under a new coach, but he was our worst regular defenceman bar Eminger at ES this year. With a healthy lineup, that makes him our #6D and he'd have to play the right side.

To me, it is a no-brainer to pull the trigger on a deal for a similarly valued forward. Who that may be is another question, Marcus Johansson, Evgeny Kuznetsov, Charlie Coyle, Jaden Schwartz, Nick Bjugstad?

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Old
06-04-2013, 07:38 AM
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
The idea of acquiring a right handed offensive defensive prospect ready to break out is good in theory. However, the purpose of doing that will be to bump Stralman to the third pair where he can be effective. Do any of Blum, Ellis, Barrie, Elliot, Demers, or Braun have good shots from the point? As far as I know they're all pass first puck movers. Nothing that would really fix the power play. All of these guys at this point would get exposed playing second pairing minutes too.
Barrie does and I think Ellis does, too.

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Old
06-04-2013, 07:39 AM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
You have to find a player like Evander Kane, one who also has high potential and has sniffed at it but hasn't exploded onto the scene sort of speak. I'd love it to be Kane, but that's a total pipe dream and WPG doesn't need MDZ. Also, I'd say the value isn't there on our end, but that's the type of player I think you should/could move him for. A low risk/high reward type. I can't think of anyone else off the top of my head because I'm tired, and it's hard to say if you could actually get one for MDZ.

Trading him just because people came up with a lame moniker for him and think he needs to be traded doesn't make much sense. But I do like guys like McDonagh/Moore and possibly Skjei more for their mobility and solid defense while bringing some offense. If you have two or three solid to very good two way d-men do you really need an offensive d-man who is a liability at times? We have one, Moore looks promising, and it's too early to tell with Skjei but we'll see.

Read a really good article on McDonagh back when we got him in the trade, his coach at college said he could be a top pairing defensive d-man or a top pairing offensive d-man in the NHL and his issue was he needed to define himself as a player. Obviously he has done that now and chose the defensive side, but he does have more offense than I think we've ever witnessed. Maybe a new coach can help him integrate that into his game.

Also interested in what a new coach might be able to do with Thomas, if anything. I think he could potentially slot in on the 2nd line if the system allows that type of player and he does some work.
I want to see Thomas on the big club eventually if nothing more than for the PP. I'd like to see him take the next step offensively in the AHL first, though.

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Old
06-04-2013, 07:42 AM
  #294
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Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
MPS could succeed in the right environment here. Stick him on a 2nd line with Brassard and Callahan and he has the potential to put up serious points. Still, he's prime to break out, but who's to say he will? Edmonton will have to add if they want Del Zotto.
I don't think his offensive game will grow much more. Still, have more speedsters on our team will do nothing but good. Many teams get by on having a slow third pairing and if we can ice a team with Hagelin, Kreider, MPS and say Stalberg, things could be entertaining.

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06-04-2013, 07:50 AM
  #295
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Trade Del Zotto for equal value. Why is that so hard to understand? Get value in return. DZ is a very good player.

Look at the Rangers roster and the number of players up for new contracts in the next 13 months.

http://capgeek.com/rangers/

Compliance buyout Richards. Torts wanted him here. Richards came here because of Torts. Sather terminated Torts last Wednesday.

Re-signing the 2013 and 2014 group IIs will not be cheap. DZ is up for another contract in 2014.

Re-signing Lundqvist,Callahan and Girardi will not be cheap.

Make an addition or two.

Even with the 2014-15 cap going to up to say $67M,it will be very tight.

The Rangers need to change the team. Look at Chicago and Boston.
Rangers need to get:

Bigger and stronger throughout the line up.

The need to get faster and more talented on the bottom 6.

There's ways of doing, but those ways mean moving guys some here want to hold onto dearly for some very odd reasons.

Wish we could have moved MDZ for RO'R when we had the chance.

Bigger, stronger, faster and more talented 3rd line center for Hags and Cally.

here's what I would want to do.

I would look to trade the following players:

Pyatt, Powe, Boyle, Asham and Staal.

I would use the final compliance buyout on Richards this summer.

I would resign Clowe to a 3 year deal at 4 million per
Resign Stepan for his 2 year Bridge deal at 3.75 per
Resign McD long term for 4.25 per.
Sign Raffi Torres to a 3 year deal at 2.25 per
Sign Nathan Horton for 4 years at 5.5 per.

Promote to the big club Fasth, Lindberg, Newbury and Miller for the forwards and Dylan McIlrath for defence.

Below is what the team would look like. Below that is what my lines would look like.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($1.325m) / Derek Stepan ($3.750m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Ryane Clowe ($4.000m) / Derick Brassard ($3.200m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.275m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.000m) / J.T. Miller ($1.244m) / Derek Dorsett ($1.633m)
Raffi Torres ($2.250m) / Kris Newbury ($0.600m) / Jesper Fasth ($0.900m)
Oscar Lindberg ($0.760m) / Nathan Horton ($5.500m)
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.250m) / Dan Girardi ($3.325m)
Michael Del Zotto ($2.550m) / Anton Stralman ($1.700m)
John Moore ($0.965m) / Steve Eminger ($0.950m)
Dylan McIlrath ($1.295m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m)
Martin Biron ($1.300m)
OTHER
Buyout: Brad Richards ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,447,500; BONUSES: $2,250,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $4,102,500


Kredier - Stepan - Nash
Clowe - Brassard - Horton
Hagelin - Miller - Callahan
Torres - Newbury - Dorsett
xtra forwards - Lindberg and Fast

McDonagh - Girardi
Del Zotto - Moore
Eminger - Stralman
xtra Defence - McIlrath

Lundqvist
Biron

That would be a nice team to watch for 82 games plus playoffs

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Old
06-04-2013, 08:16 AM
  #296
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An idea from more of a bystander at these forums. So don't be too hard on me!

I'm with the posters that either MDZ or Staal should be traded. Only option in trading Staal would be to find the right package from CAR. Top-6 winger, picks/prospects etc. what has already been mentioned in this thread.

Also came to my mind that could Johnny Boychuk be available from the Bruins?
The B's only have a bit under 7m in capspace and they need to resign Rask, Khuboudin etc. They also need to give more time in the big league for Hamilton and Bartkowski.

Boychuk would IMO be a great addition to the defense. Giving McIlrath also an another year to develop with the Wolfpack.

Other factors:

Sign Clowe but only for max 3y/3.5m.

Stay away from the "big" UFA -market, unless the signings are going to be only for maximum of 2 years. Sign a 4th line winger for a year. Like the idea of Nystrom aswell. More speed needed to the 4th line to cause some havoc in the forecheck.

In case of compliance buyouts, sign a possible 2/3C for a year to give time for Miller/Lindberg.

This team needs to give Hank a reason to stay. Show him that the organization wants the cup as much as he does.

My lineup atm would be something like:

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Trade/Clowe?-Brassard-Zuccarello
Hagelin-UFA/BO*/Miller/Lindberg-Callahan (*Buyout)
Nystrom-Boyle-Dorsett
Asham

McDonagh-Girardi
Staal-Boychuk
Moore-Stralman
Eminger

Hank
5th Element

A work in progress, so please don't burn me alive from this!

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06-04-2013, 08:42 AM
  #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Rangers need to get:

Bigger and stronger throughout the line up.

The need to get faster and more talented on the bottom 6.

There's ways of doing, but those ways mean moving guys some here want to hold onto dearly for some very odd reasons.

Wish we could have moved MDZ for RO'R when we had the chance.

Bigger, stronger, faster and more talented 3rd line center for Hags and Cally.

here's what I would want to do.

I would look to trade the following players:

Pyatt, Powe, Boyle, Asham and Staal.

I would use the final compliance buyout on Richards this summer.

I would resign Clowe to a 3 year deal at 4 million per
Resign Stepan for his 2 year Bridge deal at 3.75 per
Resign McD long term for 4.25 per.
Sign Raffi Torres to a 3 year deal at 2.25 per
Sign Nathan Horton for 4 years at 5.5 per.

Promote to the big club Fasth, Lindberg, Newbury and Miller for the forwards and Dylan McIlrath for defence.

Below is what the team would look like. Below that is what my lines would look like.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($1.325m) / Derek Stepan ($3.750m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Ryane Clowe ($4.000m) / Derick Brassard ($3.200m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.275m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.000m) / J.T. Miller ($1.244m) / Derek Dorsett ($1.633m)
Raffi Torres ($2.250m) / Kris Newbury ($0.600m) / Jesper Fasth ($0.900m)
Oscar Lindberg ($0.760m) / Nathan Horton ($5.500m)
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.250m) / Dan Girardi ($3.325m)
Michael Del Zotto ($2.550m) / Anton Stralman ($1.700m)
John Moore ($0.965m) / Steve Eminger ($0.950m)
Dylan McIlrath ($1.295m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m)
Martin Biron ($1.300m)
OTHER
Buyout: Brad Richards ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,447,500; BONUSES: $2,250,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $4,102,500


Kredier - Stepan - Nash
Clowe - Brassard - Horton
Hagelin - Miller - Callahan
Torres - Newbury - Dorsett
xtra forwards - Lindberg and Fast

McDonagh - Girardi
Del Zotto - Moore
Eminger - Stralman
xtra Defence - McIlrath

Lundqvist
Biron

That would be a nice team to watch for 82 games plus playoffs
How are you affording to re-sign Lundqvist,Callahan and Girardi as group IIIs in 2014? The RFAa are DZ,Brassard,Kreider and Moore. The first 3 are arbitration eligible. How are you affording to pay those players in 2014 when you committed so much money to the group IIs,Clowe and the 2 free agent signings? The cap increases to $67M for 14-15. Where is the money coming from? Any moves the Rangers make this summer will be with an eye towards being able to keep their players in 2014. The Avs wanted DZ,Kreider and a #1 for ROR. That wasn't happening. Plus ROR wanted big money. The Rangers will need more than 2 years if they are giving Stepan close to $4M.

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06-04-2013, 08:49 AM
  #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Rangers need to get:

Bigger and stronger throughout the line up.

The need to get faster and more talented on the bottom 6.

There's ways of doing, but those ways mean moving guys some here want to hold onto dearly for some very odd reasons.

Wish we could have moved MDZ for RO'R when we had the chance.

Bigger, stronger, faster and more talented 3rd line center for Hags and Cally.

here's what I would want to do.

I would look to trade the following players:

Pyatt, Powe, Boyle, Asham and Staal.

I would use the final compliance buyout on Richards this summer.

I would resign Clowe to a 3 year deal at 4 million per
Resign Stepan for his 2 year Bridge deal at 3.75 per
Resign McD long term for 4.25 per.
Sign Raffi Torres to a 3 year deal at 2.25 per
Sign Nathan Horton for 4 years at 5.5 per.

Promote to the big club Fasth, Lindberg, Newbury and Miller for the forwards and Dylan McIlrath for defence.

Below is what the team would look like. Below that is what my lines would look like.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($1.325m) / Derek Stepan ($3.750m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Ryane Clowe ($4.000m) / Derick Brassard ($3.200m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.275m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.000m) / J.T. Miller ($1.244m) / Derek Dorsett ($1.633m)
Raffi Torres ($2.250m) / Kris Newbury ($0.600m) / Jesper Fasth ($0.900m)
Oscar Lindberg ($0.760m) / Nathan Horton ($5.500m)
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.250m) / Dan Girardi ($3.325m)
Michael Del Zotto ($2.550m) / Anton Stralman ($1.700m)
John Moore ($0.965m) / Steve Eminger ($0.950m)
Dylan McIlrath ($1.295m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m)
Martin Biron ($1.300m)
OTHER
Buyout: Brad Richards ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,447,500; BONUSES: $2,250,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $4,102,500


Kredier - Stepan - Nash
Clowe - Brassard - Horton
Hagelin - Miller - Callahan
Torres - Newbury - Dorsett
xtra forwards - Lindberg and Fast

McDonagh - Girardi
Del Zotto - Moore
Eminger - Stralman
xtra Defence - McIlrath

Lundqvist
Biron

That would be a nice team to watch for 82 games plus playoffs
if we got Horton, we def wouldn't waste money on Clowe and surely not Torres. If we sign Horton, someone gets pushed down to the 3rd line..

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06-04-2013, 08:52 AM
  #299
Trxjw
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Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
The idea of acquiring a right handed offensive defensive prospect ready to break out is good in theory. However, the purpose of doing that will be to bump Stralman to the third pair where he can be effective. Do any of Blum, Ellis, Barrie, Elliot, Demers, or Braun have good shots from the point? As far as I know they're all pass first puck movers. Nothing that would really fix the power play. All of these guys at this point would get exposed playing second pairing minutes too.
Barrie played 2nd pairing minutes in Colorado and was quite solid for a rookie. He doesn't have a big shot, but that's really not important. Your QB is the guy who is supposed to open up the lanes for shots and passes, and then set someone up to get a shot on net. A 95 mph shot into a defenders shin pads is utterly useless.

Stralman was fine as a 2nd pairing option this season, so until someone unseats him from that spot, we can keep him there. However, with Staal, we have the luxury of having an elite defender to take some of the burden off of a young player like Barrie.

Moore, Staal, Stralman and McDonagh can all rush the puck up the ice effectively. What we need is someone who can command the powerplay and turn mediocre chances into great ones.

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06-04-2013, 08:56 AM
  #300
SoftEuro4thLiner
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Sakic and Roy should be kicked in their faces if they decide to trade Barrie, from an Avs POV.

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