HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Pierre Groulx's contract will not be renewed

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-04-2013, 08:49 AM
  #151
Le depisteur
Registered User
 
Le depisteur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Québec
Posts: 3,801
vCash: 500
Renaud Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS 29 min
My list of candidates for goalie coach with MTL: François Allaire, Vincent Riendeau (Bulldogs) David Marcoux (hockey Canada) Eli Wilson...

Renaud Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS 28 min
...And Stéphane Waite. His contract with Blackhawks will end at the end of the month.

https://twitter.com/RenLavoieRDS/sta...07139243147265

https://twitter.com/RenLavoieRDS/sta...07311939440640

Le depisteur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2013, 08:55 AM
  #152
Dada
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 305
vCash: 500
Brunet's article this morning

http://http://blogues.lapresse.ca/ln...e-carey-price/

Dada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2013, 08:55 AM
  #153
WeThreeKings
Registered User
 
WeThreeKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,623
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to WeThreeKings
Yikes that's a list of really bad candidates... I just Eli Wilson, Waite or Marcoux would be my top contenders, but none of them are exceptional.

WeThreeKings is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2013, 08:58 AM
  #154
Dada
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 305
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Yikes that's a list of really bad candidates... I just Eli Wilson, Waite or Marcoux would be my top contenders, but none of them are exceptional.
Brunet mentions that Anderson hired Allaire as a full-time coach during the lockout and you can't say he didn't benefit from it... You don't think he's worth a try?

Dada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2013, 09:00 AM
  #155
WeThreeKings
Registered User
 
WeThreeKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,623
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to WeThreeKings
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dada View Post
Sounds more like Brunet defending his friend Allaire. Sure, Anderson used Allaire and look how atrocious Anderson's rebound control is? That's not Price's game.

WeThreeKings is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2013, 09:11 AM
  #156
Agnostic
11 Stanley Cups
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,003
vCash: 500
Look to Finland for a coach they've been turning out better goaltenders for a while now.

Agnostic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2013, 09:14 AM
  #157
Dada
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 305
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Sounds more like Brunet defending his friend Allaire. Sure, Anderson used Allaire and look how atrocious Anderson's rebound control is? That's not Price's game.
Yea I get your point, but I read somewhere(don't remember where) that they should get a coach that's teaches the "Quick" style, a bit more based on "athlethicisme" and physical abilities than just blocking shots like a wall a la Anderson, and I think that's not a bad idea, it would be a better fit for Price

Dada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2013, 09:16 AM
  #158
pine
Registered User
 
pine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,962
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dada View Post
Yea I get your point, but I read somewhere(don't remember where) that they should get a coach that's teaches the "Quick" style, a bit more based on "athlethicisme" and physical abilities than just blocking shots like a wall a la Anderson, and I think that's not a bad idea, it would be a better fit for Price
I think you read one of WTK's earlier posts

I wholeheartedly agree though. Price has the same skillset and size as Quick and should quickly work to adapt the foundation of the latter's technique.

pine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2013, 09:18 AM
  #159
Dr Gonzo
#1 Jan Bulis Fan
 
Dr Gonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bat Country
Posts: 4,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annyong View Post
I think you read one of WTK's earlier posts

I wholeheartedly agree though. Price has the same skillset and size as Quick and should quickly adapt the foundation of the latter's technique.
Groulx actually pushed Price to play more like Quick this year (constantly on his knees) and that's most likely what led to his firing. (Who's decision it was to change his style isn't sure, but Groulx did coach the change)

No point in trying to change a goalies style IMO. Work with what you have.

Dr Gonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2013, 09:28 AM
  #160
pine
Registered User
 
pine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,962
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Groulx actually pushed Price to play more like Quick this year (constantly on his knees) and that's most likely what led to his firing. (Who's decision it was to change his style isn't sure, but Groulx did coach the change)

No point in trying to change a goalies style IMO. Work with what you have.
I didn't see Price challenging shooters like he should and as Quick does. Price should not have been getting beat as often as he was when the play was down low.

pine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2013, 09:29 AM
  #161
WeThreeKings
Registered User
 
WeThreeKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,623
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to WeThreeKings
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Groulx actually pushed Price to play more like Quick this year (constantly on his knees) and that's most likely what led to his firing. (Who's decision it was to change his style isn't sure, but Groulx did coach the change)

No point in trying to change a goalies style IMO. Work with what you have.
Quick's style isn't always on your knees. That was what Groulx/Price came up with in the off-season and it is absolutely BRUTAL. I yelled about it in many threads, it just does not utilize ANY of the proper theories of goaltending nor does it allow Price to use his brilliant lateral movement to his advantage.

Quick's theories come down to this: Puck's eye perspective. The puck has a different view of the net than the shooter. The closer to the puck you become, the less of the net the puck the sees, and also the steeper the trajectory of the puck must be to reach the upper portions of the net. Quick crouches lower and lower, upper body becoming tilted forward to the ice the closer the puck comes, he also gets out on top of his crease. If the puck is passed or shot wide, that is when the strong legs come in handy, quickly rotate and come back to your post, set and read/react to the play, come out aggressively again if the situation calls for it.

When the puck is below the goal-line, only when it is directly in the middle, should both legs be down in the butterfly position (on your knees) so that if there is a quick stick move, they can't get the puck into the near side post. Any time that the puck moves beyond the center point of the net, you have to load the post side leg (plant your skate on a strong angle into the ice and activate your muscles to be ready to push), and be ready for any quick pass plays that may go into the slot or across the net, or shots generated for rebound opportunites/crease crashing.

Quick gets into the splits a lot during recovery situations because most of the time, the puck is close to the net, so he knows if he gets his legs wide, the low posts are covered and if he leans his upper body forward/reaches to the puck with his hands, he can limit the areas he can possibly be scored on which allows for a lot of acrobatic saves to be made.

If we get Allaire.. you will see Price get into shooting lanes, react to the shot or the sound of the shot, get down into the full butterfly, maybe center shift (lean your torso into the direction of the shot to eliminate holes) and rely on his defense to clear away rebounds or tie up their men (which is what Ottawa did to us). You will not see a lot of movement with Price, you won't see him making dynamic movements, it will be all about playing percentages and relying on them rather than reading, reacting and using Price's athletic and biological gifts to his advantage.

Dislike Price for his lack of intensity? You'll hate him even more under an Allaire teaching syle because it will take mostly all of it out of his game, turning him into what we saw of Reimer for most of his career, a robot who gets in the lane and is never in position to make a second save and is never fighting through traffic or screens to see the puck because they are more worried about filling the lane with a percentage blocking technique than analyzing the situation.

WeThreeKings is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2013, 09:35 AM
  #162
Saintpatrick
Registered User
 
Saintpatrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,380
vCash: 500
That's two goalie coaches fired now under Price's watch. I think Price should make the decision on who his next coach is.

Saintpatrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2013, 09:38 AM
  #163
pine
Registered User
 
pine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,962
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizardking89 View Post
That's two goalie coaches fired now under Price's watch. I think Price should make the decision on who his next coach is.
I think it has more to do with the management in place rather than Price per se. Martin wanted to bring his guy in (Groulx) and now Bergevin/Therrien will want to do the same.

Also, there's no neglecting that Price faltering in late season was just incentive to facilitate the replacement.

pine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2013, 09:38 AM
  #164
Dada
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 305
vCash: 500
A coach who could tell Price that his stick isn't there just for fun and that maybe he could use to it to block that thing we call the " five hole " . See Jacob Silfverberg. Still hurts

Dada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2013, 09:57 AM
  #165
montreal
Go Habs Go
 
montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Balearic Islands
Posts: 23,303
vCash: 500
I haven't read through this thread but i'm not surprised. Price's numbers started out very good but in the last 2 months took a dive and just got worse as the season wore on. Price also had the lowest save % of his NHL career, hopefully a new goalie coach can get him going next year, would love to see him repeat the numbers from the '10-'11 season.

montreal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2013, 09:59 AM
  #166
Le depisteur
Registered User
 
Le depisteur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Québec
Posts: 3,801
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizardking89 View Post
That's two goalie coaches fired now under Price's watch. I think Price should make the decision on who his next coach is.
Pierre Groulx wasn't fired...

Le depisteur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2013, 10:07 AM
  #167
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,563
vCash: 500
Not sure what to make of Groulx's 'firing'. Price has been consistently good for the past three years and if he doesn't crap the bed in the last two weeks the guy is still here. Is he to blame for that? Don't know. If Price struggles, was that on him or the coach? Does firing the coach make a difference here? I understand the decision and don't have a problem with it. Just think that it's interesting that nobody had a problem until now.

As for Allaire, as others have noted he ruined Gustofsson and very nearly ruined Reimer. Obvioulsy he has some skills but he worries me a little as he's dogmatic and his style isn't for everyone.

Not sure who we'll get coming forward but I just hope its somebody who lets Price play his own style. Kolzig would've been great based on past success but I'm sure there are others out there. As long as they get a coach who let's Price play his game I'm not worried.

To be honest I'm more worried about our D. Nobody who the goalie is, we're going to need to add at least one solid vet to that group. A big rugged top 4 guy would be really nice.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 06-04-2013 at 10:16 AM.
Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2013, 10:12 AM
  #168
Ezpz
No mad pls
 
Ezpz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,667
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Not sure what to make of Groulx's firing. Price has been consistently good for the past three years and if he doesn't crap the bed in the last two weeks the guy is still here. Is he to blame for that? Don't know.

As for Allaire, as others have noted he ruined Gustofsson and very nearly ruined Reimer. Obvioulsy he has some skills but he worries me a little as he's dogmatic and his style isn't for everyone.

Not sure who we'll get coming forward but I just hope its somebody who lets Price play his own style. Kolzig would've been great based on past success but I'm sure there are others out there. As long as they get a coach who let's Price play his game I'm not worried.

To be honest I'm more worried about our D. Nobody who the goalie is, we're going to need to add at least one solid vet to that group. A big rugged top 4 guy would be really nice.
Didn't Allaire quit the Leafs because other coaches were telling his goalies to do certain things that he wasn't teaching them and undermining his entire job?

Ezpz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2013, 10:14 AM
  #169
Saint Patrick
2 rings in my hears
 
Saint Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,702
vCash: 500
I'm curious, do you guys believe Allaire is past his time? I'm not sure why theres so much hate towards him. Seems like a calm collected coach that would fit Price's emotional style well. I know about his time with Toronto but how much of it is Allaire being the wrong choice while still being a good coach? The coach should definitely adapt to the goalie, but sometimes a match works better than others no? Im not sure his coaching style was good for Reimer and Gustavsson but maybe its good for Price?

He still coached a legend at some point.

Saint Patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2013, 10:20 AM
  #170
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,563
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
Didn't Allaire quit the Leafs because other coaches were telling his goalies to do certain things that he wasn't teaching them and undermining his entire job?
Allaire was a going concern in TO. The criticism with him was constant and neither Toskala nor Gustofsson were doing well under him. Reimer also struggled with his system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Patrick View Post
I'm curious, do you guys believe Allaire is past his time? I'm not sure why theres so much hate towards him. Seems like a calm collected coach that would fit Price's emotional style well. I know about his time with Toronto but how much of it is Allaire being the wrong choice while still being a good coach? The coach should definitely adapt to the goalie, but sometimes a match works better than others no? Im not sure his coaching style was good for Reimer and Gustavsson but maybe its good for Price?

He still coached a legend at some point.
I think Allaire works for some goalies and not others. He's very dogmatic in his system and demands that goalies play HIS way. That can be good or bad. I don't know how well he'd do with Price but he scares me a little.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2013, 10:20 AM
  #171
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,563
vCash: 500
Also, wtf is up with this site? Posts keep getting lost... and its really annoying.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2013, 10:23 AM
  #172
Saint Patrick
2 rings in my hears
 
Saint Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,702
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
Didn't Allaire quit the Leafs because other coaches were telling his goalies to do certain things that he wasn't teaching them and undermining his entire job?
Sounds like it

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/...dnt-do-my-job/

Saint Patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2013, 10:27 AM
  #173
WeThreeKings
Registered User
 
WeThreeKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,623
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to WeThreeKings
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Patrick View Post
I'm curious, do you guys believe Allaire is past his time? I'm not sure why theres so much hate towards him. Seems like a calm collected coach that would fit Price's emotional style well. I know about his time with Toronto but how much of it is Allaire being the wrong choice while still being a good coach? The coach should definitely adapt to the goalie, but sometimes a match works better than others no? Im not sure his coaching style was good for Reimer and Gustavsson but maybe its good for Price?

He still coached a legend at some point.
His style is only good for big goalies with no athleticism. Giguere thrived because that's what he was.. He'd ruin Price further.

WeThreeKings is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2013, 10:29 AM
  #174
Saint Patrick
2 rings in my hears
 
Saint Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,702
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Allaire was a going concern in TO. The criticism with him was constant and neither Toskala nor Gustofsson were doing well under him. Reimer also struggled with his system.

I think Allaire works for some goalies and not others. He's very dogmatic in his system and demands that goalies play HIS way. That can be good or bad. I don't know how well he'd do with Price but he scares me a little.
Thats the impression I get too, im not too sure how good of a match Toronto was, but then again isnt that the case for most coaches? They work with some players (and teams in a sense) and not so well with others?

I think he might actually be a decent match for Price, first because of how long he's been doing this, the fact that he's coached a top goalie in Montreal is a huge deal, he'll know how to calm Price down and keep him focused.

Saint Patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2013, 10:35 AM
  #175
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,563
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Patrick View Post
Thats the impression I get too, im not too sure how good of a match Toronto was, but then again isnt that the case for most coaches? They work with some players (and teams in a sense) and not so well with others?

I think he might actually be a decent match for Price, first because of how long he's been doing this, the fact that he's coached a top goalie in Montreal is a huge deal, he'll know how to calm Price down and keep him focused.
Maybe he'd be great for Price. Or he'd be a disaster. I don't think there's an in between if we choose him. So if we choose him, we'd better be sure.

Do we want Price to be a classic butterfly goalie? I suppose it could work, but I'm not a huge fan of having a young goalie who's been successful change his style because his coach wants him to play that way. Like I said, I'd rather we hire a guy who will let Price play his own game.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:02 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.