HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Anze Kopitar vs Carey Price

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-08-2006, 08:32 AM
  #101
Freaky Habs Fan
Registered User
 
Freaky Habs Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: New-Brunswick
Posts: 9,492
vCash: 500
For those who only check stats...

Price had his third win in a row, 2.24, .933...pretty good so far! Tri-City seem to be a better team this year!

And BTW, Ben Maxwell is the leading scorer of the whole WHL with 13 points in 6 games...

Freaky Habs Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2006, 09:22 AM
  #102
Bryzga lol*
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftKinger View Post
Beeting out Pronger for your first NHL goal in your first NHL game

Bryzga lol* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2006, 09:58 AM
  #103
montreal
Go Habs Go
 
montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Balearic Islands
Posts: 23,290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Eck View Post
It's funny how people are defending gainey's mistake in selecting Price. It seems like many are giving bob a free pass for some reason.
It's funny how someone could declare a mistake on a prospect that recently turned 19. Let me guess, you can see into the future, so you already know how things are going to turn out for the '05 picks and you came here to enlight us for being excited about a first round pick.

I've got an idea, why not wait a couple years and see what actually happens instead of what people think may happen. In the end so what, what's the point. No matter where you pick or what team you are, you will make mistakes since there's only a small handful of great players that come out of the draft on average over time, so that means most teams will miss out on getting a great pick, so if Brule ends up being one of the best players in the NHL or Kopitar or any other name, then good for the team that picked them. It's great to see a team hit a home run with a pick cause it is a rare thing for the most part, even better when it's a later pick (although imo the spot where a player is picked in the long run is meaningless)

The Habs have made their mistakes at the draft table with each gm and will continue to do so, just as they have made good picks and will continue to do so. Gainey and his staff are clearly trying to build something in their mold, certain kinds of players with a mixture of character and skills. They hopefully know what they are doing, in 5+ years we will have a feel for how successful they were or weren't since they are just now starting to show minor dividends since Gainey took over as gm. Lats, Streit, Danis, Murray are the only prospects to see time with the Habs that Gainey either drafted, traded for or signed. Chipchura, Emelin, Price, Grabovski all could see time in the near future (1-2 years). That's from a 2 year draft period, so if most of them can work their way into the NHL and be effective, which at this point could still go either way, it would be great if the Habs could add a couple more effective NHLers. Not saying they will or won't but I like the chances that some of them will be full time NHLers down the road.

There's almost always going to be someone better picked after you make your pick, it happens a lot to all teams/gm's. The thing you want to see is that the team finds a way to pick exciting prospects that fit the teams plans. Most picks will end up being useless out side of career AHLers, which also have their place in the organization since they may play on a line with a future Hab, perhaps help them adjust to pro hockey easier etc... The hope is that you can grab an NHLer or two from a draft and if so you've done a good job no matter if you missed out on grabbing the star of the draft, cause the odds are 29 out of 30 will come up on the wrong end.

Most fans don't know what they are talking about in terms of scouting (I mean lets face it, how many people actually talk to any scouts, have ever done any sort of work with the scouting firms or even see the tools scouts use to record information when at the rinks) Yes it's fun to look back and it sucks that the Habs have missed the boat on grabbing a superstar. If onlys are fun to some but a waste of time as well. Yes it's too bad we didn't pick Hossa over Ward or Bergeron over Urquhart or Carter over Kostitsyn... I can go on and on as can 29 other teams.

The good news is that the Habs have continued to make good picks, they turned around their weak farm system and stocked it with a good mix of skills and depth. Most of these guys will never make it, but so far the Habs have been adding a good amount of young players to the team. Markov then Ryder, Komisarek, Higgins, Plekanec, Murray and Perezhogin all have made an impact with the team. Latendresse, Kostitsyn, Lapierre, Danis, Ferland, Grabovski, Chipchura, are all guys that likely will get a chance to show their stuff, what they do with it when they get there depends on a lot of various factors with luck being a big part of it imo. It looks good for the future as well. Yes the odds are that most of the recent picks will not make it and yes the odds are that another team took a better player, but as long as the Habs can continue to draft well (imo) and develop the players (which they have not done a great job in the past, but we'll see if Gainey changes that since it's still very early in his GM career with us) Then the Habs hopefully will continue to improve as a team and be more competitive.

montreal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2006, 10:35 AM
  #104
The_Eck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,034
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
It's funny how someone could declare a mistake on a prospect that recently turned 19. Let me guess, you can see into the future, so you already know how things are going to turn out for the '05 picks and you came here to enlight us for being excited about a first round pick.

I've got an idea, why not wait a couple years and see what actually happens instead of what people think may happen. In the end so what, what's the point. No matter where you pick or what team you are, you will make mistakes since there's only a small handful of great players that come out of the draft on average over time, so that means most teams will miss out on getting a great pick, so if Brule ends up being one of the best players in the NHL or Kopitar or any other name, then good for the team that picked them. It's great to see a team hit a home run with a pick cause it is a rare thing for the most part, even better when it's a later pick (although imo the spot where a player is picked in the long run is meaningless)

The Habs have made their mistakes at the draft table with each gm and will continue to do so, just as they have made good picks and will continue to do so. Gainey and his staff are clearly trying to build something in their mold, certain kinds of players with a mixture of character and skills. They hopefully know what they are doing, in 5+ years we will have a feel for how successful they were or weren't since they are just now starting to show minor dividends since Gainey took over as gm. Lats, Streit, Danis, Murray are the only prospects to see time with the Habs that Gainey either drafted, traded for or signed. Chipchura, Emelin, Price, Grabovski all could see time in the near future (1-2 years). That's from a 2 year draft period, so if most of them can work their way into the NHL and be effective, which at this point could still go either way, it would be great if the Habs could add a couple more effective NHLers. Not saying they will or won't but I like the chances that some of them will be full time NHLers down the road.

There's almost always going to be someone better picked after you make your pick, it happens a lot to all teams/gm's. The thing you want to see is that the team finds a way to pick exciting prospects that fit the teams plans. Most picks will end up being useless out side of career AHLers, which also have their place in the organization since they may play on a line with a future Hab, perhaps help them adjust to pro hockey easier etc... The hope is that you can grab an NHLer or two from a draft and if so you've done a good job no matter if you missed out on grabbing the star of the draft, cause the odds are 29 out of 30 will come up on the wrong end.

Most fans don't know what they are talking about in terms of scouting (I mean lets face it, how many people actually talk to any scouts, have ever done any sort of work with the scouting firms or even see the tools scouts use to record information when at the rinks) Yes it's fun to look back and it sucks that the Habs have missed the boat on grabbing a superstar. If onlys are fun to some but a waste of time as well. Yes it's too bad we didn't pick Hossa over Ward or Bergeron over Urquhart or Carter over Kostitsyn... I can go on and on as can 29 other teams.

The good news is that the Habs have continued to make good picks, they turned around their weak farm system and stocked it with a good mix of skills and depth. Most of these guys will never make it, but so far the Habs have been adding a good amount of young players to the team. Markov then Ryder, Komisarek, Higgins, Plekanec, Murray and Perezhogin all have made an impact with the team. Latendresse, Kostitsyn, Lapierre, Danis, Ferland, Grabovski, Chipchura, are all guys that likely will get a chance to show their stuff, what they do with it when they get there depends on a lot of various factors with luck being a big part of it imo. It looks good for the future as well. Yes the odds are that most of the recent picks will not make it and yes the odds are that another team took a better player, but as long as the Habs can continue to draft well (imo) and develop the players (which they have not done a great job in the past, but we'll see if Gainey changes that since it's still very early in his GM career with us) Then the Habs hopefully will continue to improve as a team and be more competitive.
All those players mentioned don't have anywhere near the potential of an Anze Kopitar or a Brule for that matter (not to mention bourdon as well). You just can't pass up on these kind of players, you can't tell me that you are satisying with the canadians lack of size down the middle. This has been a glaring weakness for the habs over the past several years, kopitar would have fit in very nicely centering the habs second line.'

Furthermore, many scouts had kopitar projected as the #5 pick overall. Why is it time and time again the habs keep on missing out on these superstar prospects? It really is odd.

The_Eck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2006, 10:38 AM
  #105
AH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Woodbridge, ON
Country: Pakistan
Posts: 4,874
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Eck View Post
All those players mentioned don't have anywhere near the potential of an Anze Kopitar or a Brule for that matter. You just can't pass up on these kind of players, you can't tell me that you are satisying with the canadians lack of size down the middle. This has been a glaring weakness for the habs over the past several years, kopitar would have fit in very nicely centering the habs second line.
9 other teams passed on him after`Crosby. Why the obsession with the Habs?

Let me guess? Why dont you go and invade the other teams' boards?

AH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2006, 10:39 AM
  #106
Carbo N8
Registered User
 
Carbo N8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 941
vCash: 500
Kopitar was my pick & I was quite disappointed when they took Price instead, but, I have a penchant for big forwards & tend to think of goaltenders as players you pick as an afterthought even though it is the most important position in hockey. I guess it's a good thing they don't ask for my input on draft day.

I saw Kopitar as an answer to a long-time need with the Habs, Gainey identified another need & addressed it, life goes on.

I got over it & will be thrilled when Price becomes the goalie he seems to be & along with the #1 center that we will have through Gainey's manouvering the Habs are contending for the Cup in a few years.

Carbo N8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2006, 10:50 AM
  #107
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,988
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Eck View Post
All those players mentioned don't have anywhere near the potential of an Anze Kopitar or a Brule for that matter (not to mention bourdon as well). You just can't pass up on these kind of players, you can't tell me that you are satisying with the canadians lack of size down the middle. This has been a glaring weakness for the habs over the past several years, kopitar would have fit in very nicely centering the habs second line.'

Furthermore, many scouts had kopitar projected as the #5 pick overall. Why is it time and time again the habs keep on missing out on these superstar prospects? It really is odd.
Lack of size down the middle is the reason why guys like Chouinard and Urquhart were picked.....And Chouinard was suppose to become a player that you can't pass up with great potentiel....That's where a guy, who doesn't have the offensive qualities of a Kopitar, like Chipchura was picked though.

I expressed it in numerious occasions, Kostitsyn's pick nevertheless what he does wasn't a good pick at the time, 'cause that draft had tons of surefire NHL players and Kostitsyn had way too many questions marks even though some said that in pure talent, he would've been top 5. But my pick was Getzlaf at the time mostly because of that lack of size down the middle. No where did I ever read that Carter was a candidate for top 10, even top 15. He was late 1st round, beginning of 2nd. Philly made a bold move, like Phoenix made one with Wheeler, I guess you win some and lose some....

I don't know if it's a change of opinion, but Timmins starts talking more about how the BPA is now based on needs, and I feel he'll be trying to address that problem in the near future.

But sure, I never thought, thinking we would have Theodore for life, that they would go for Price, who had some questions marks for me mostly regarding the U-18. There was also talks about his consistency that I didn't feel was worthy of a Top 5 pick. Loved Brule everytime I watched him but didn't think he'll address our size issue so Kopitar was my 1st choice, Brulé 2nd, Staal 3rd. But I like said previously, Kopitar might have been a riskier pick 'cause of the competition he played against. Took a big risk with Kosty didn't want to take a big risk with Kopi, thought that Price was IT. Didn't agree at the time, but feeling better with it as the time pass by....

But again, just wondering why is it that it's always the Habs who are making the mistakes and not the Wild with Pouliot, the Ducks with Ryan or even Columbus with Brule and the rest of the teams after us.....

Whitesnake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2006, 10:51 AM
  #108
Blades 0f Steel
Registered User
 
Blades 0f Steel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Tibet
Posts: 11,523
vCash: 500
Tell you what, let's keep this thread open for 10 years then evaluate how the Habs drafted.

Maybe then we'll be able to say "Kopitar is great and all, but I sure am glad we drafted Price, the 2017 Conn Smythe winner."

Blades 0f Steel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2006, 11:06 AM
  #109
The_Eck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,034
vCash: 500
Whether price becomes a solid nhl calibre goaltender or not, kopitar has looked DAMN good so far.

The_Eck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2006, 11:23 AM
  #110
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,988
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Eck View Post
Whether price becomes a solid nhl calibre goaltender or not, kopitar has looked DAMN good so far.
Yes he is. So is 10 teams wondering what there players will look like in the future wondering if they should have chosen the great one from Slovakia.....

By the way, Price looked DAMN good in preseason, he's in Juniors because of technicalities not because of his play. And now, he's in Juniors looking DAMN good at that level too......

Let's wait and see shall we???? I wasn't happy at all but has Price done anything to dissapoint us??? Not even close.

Whitesnake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2006, 11:24 AM
  #111
The_Eck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,034
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Yes he is. So is 10 teams wondering what there players will look like in the future wondering if they should have chosen the great one from Slovakia.....

By the way, Price looked DAMN good in preseason, he's in Juniors because of technicalities not because of his play. And now, he's in Juniors looking DAMN good at that level too......

Let's wait and see shall we???? I wasn't happy at all but has Price done anything to dissapoint us??? Not even close.
Well, he didn't make the cut for Team Canada junior team last year.

The_Eck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2006, 11:26 AM
  #112
The_Eck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,034
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Yes he is. So is 10 teams wondering what there players will look like in the future wondering if they should have chosen the great one from Slovakia.....

By the way, Price looked DAMN good in preseason, he's in Juniors because of technicalities not because of his play. And now, he's in Juniors looking DAMN good at that level too......

Let's wait and see shall we???? I wasn't happy at all but has Price done anything to dissapoint us??? Not even close.
Excluding the penguins and canucks (bourdon is a stud).

The_Eck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2006, 11:28 AM
  #113
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,988
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Eck View Post
Well, he didn't make the cut for Team Canada junior team last year.
Performance wise, he was way above Dubnyk no question. Any contradictory remark to that effect and you didn't follow the camp.....

Whitesnake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2006, 11:30 AM
  #114
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,988
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Eck View Post
Excluding the penguins and canucks (bourdon is a stud).
Well the way you're talking about Kopitar makes me think he's a SUPER STUD which makes the Bourdon pick a bad one......'Cause Kopitar looks damn good while Bourdon right now looks OK......Based on the way you judge a pick, right now, Bourdon wasn't the greatest pick....

Whitesnake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2006, 11:33 AM
  #115
The_Eck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,034
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Well the way you're talking about Kopitar makes me think he's a SUPER STUD which makes the Bourdon pick a bad one......'Cause Kopitar looks damn good while Bourdon right now looks OK......Based on the way you judge a pick, right now, Bourdon wasn't the greatest pick....
In that case why don't i word it differently: Bourdon looks DAMN good.

Incidentally, he is another guy the habs missed out on.

The_Eck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2006, 11:36 AM
  #116
montreal
Go Habs Go
 
montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Balearic Islands
Posts: 23,290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Eck View Post
All those players mentioned don't have anywhere near the potential of an Anze Kopitar or a Brule for that matter (not to mention bourdon as well). You just can't pass up on these kind of players, you can't tell me that you are satisying with the canadians lack of size down the middle. This has been a glaring weakness for the habs over the past several years, kopitar would have fit in very nicely centering the habs second line.'

Furthermore, many scouts had kopitar projected as the #5 pick overall. Why is it time and time again the habs keep on missing out on these superstar prospects? It really is odd.
Potential is meaningless until it becomes results. I could easily see both being great NHLers, better then anyone on the Habs. So other teams missed the boat on them as well. The Habs have made mistakes and will continue to make them just like every team will. Time will tell who made the best picks, and I would bet it won't be the Habs. As long as they continue to draft well, which imo they have, then I'm fine with the job they have done. I'd love to see the team end up with a superstar, it sucks they have missed the boat on several chances. Who knows what will come of the '05 picks, it's been 16 months, lets see what happens in 5 years.

montreal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2006, 11:37 AM
  #117
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,988
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Eck View Post
In that case why don't i word it differently: Bourdon looks DAMN good.

Incidentally, he is another guy the habs missed out on.
How many games have you watched Bourdon played exactly. What did he do for you to say he looks damn good. Cause evidently, why you're saying Kopitar looks great is by seeing his goals on TV and maybe reading the LA thread. But have you went looking at the 'Nucks thread as well???? Have you seen, with your own eyes some his plays????

I didn't think so.....

How did Price looked in Preseason??? Have you seen some replays on TV about his performance????

Whitesnake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2006, 11:43 AM
  #118
The_Eck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,034
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
How many games have you watched Bourdon played exactly. What did he do for you to say he looks damn good. Cause evidently, why you're saying Kopitar looks great is by seeing his goals on TV and maybe reading the LA thread. But have you went looking at the 'Nucks thread as well???? Have you seen, with your own eyes some his plays????

I didn't think so.....

How did Price looked in Preseason??? Have you seen some replays on TV about his performance
????
In short, yes i have courtesey of nhl centre ice. And i don't base my opinion on highlights and what other people post on this site.

The_Eck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2006, 11:43 AM
  #119
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,078
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Eck View Post
Whether price becomes a solid nhl calibre goaltender or not, kopitar has looked DAMN good so far.
So what? If Price justifies his selection, that's all that matters.

Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2006, 11:48 AM
  #120
Frolov 6'3
Unregistered User
 
Frolov 6'3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 8,732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Yes he is. So is 10 teams wondering what there players will look like in the future wondering if they should have chosen the great one from Slovakia.....
Slovenia..

Who would have thought they had great ones over there.

Frolov 6'3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2006, 11:48 AM
  #121
AH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Woodbridge, ON
Country: Pakistan
Posts: 4,874
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Eck View Post
In that case why don't i word it differently: Bourdon looks DAMN good.

Incidentally, he is another guy the habs missed out on.
Sorry the Habs dont have the luxury of picking 1st or 2nd in every draft like your Penguins have. It's kind of hard to mess up a Crosby or Malkin pick. Even the Fleury pick is looking bad right now (not because MAF is a bust or anything, but because of all the studs that followed him).

Why dont you go and cry about that?

AH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2006, 12:01 PM
  #122
The_Eck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,034
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AH View Post
Sorry the Habs dont have the luxury of picking 1st or 2nd in every draft like your Penguins have. It's kind of hard to mess up a Crosby or Malkin pick. Even the Fleury pick is looking bad right now (not because MAF is a bust or anything, but because of all the studs that followed him).

Why dont you go and cry about that?
Ummmmmm.....have you watched the penguins first two games??? Looking bad right now???

Perhaps you should rephrase your comment...

Last time i checked bourdon, kopitar, brule were picked after the habs selection. Everybody at the draft was shocked by the habs selection of price.

The_Eck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2006, 12:13 PM
  #123
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,988
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Eck View Post
In short, yes i have courtesey of nhl centre ice. And i don't base my opinion on highlights and what other people post on this site.
OK so just tell us besides Kopitar's goals what impressed you the most. And what about Bourdon???? What makes him as equally special as Kopitar. How can you judge that Bourdon's pick was equally as great as Kopitar's based on all the games you'see seen so far.

God you must be a busy person with all those games to watch and have time to analyse all those guys.....What about Brulé, how has he been so far????

Whitesnake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2006, 12:15 PM
  #124
AH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Woodbridge, ON
Country: Pakistan
Posts: 4,874
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Eck View Post
Ummmmmm.....have you watched the penguins first two games??? Looking bad right now???

Perhaps you should rephrase your comment...

Last time i checked bourdon, kopitar, brule were picked after the habs selection. Everybody at the draft was shocked by the habs selection of price.
2 games pal. You passed a franchise forwrd in Staal and franchise d-man in Phaneuf. Yes, it's looking not so great.

AH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2006, 12:19 PM
  #125
The_Eck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,034
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AH View Post
2 games pal. You passed a franchise forwrd in Staal and franchise d-man in Phaneuf. Yes, it's looking not so great.
Goaltending is the most important position on any team (ie: Huet carried the habs to the post season last year). Fleury was a wise selection for a rebuilding team, the penguins have two franchise forwards in crosby and malkin. The future is looking pretty good.

The_Eck is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:01 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.