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Trade value of Andrei Markov

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Old
06-04-2013, 10:12 AM
  #126
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You know about Chelios right? And you think Marky should be gone now? Just watch. He might make a lot of guys on this board look like fools. No way he is gone next year.
Chelios was nearing his prime when traded, Markov is past his. It should be against the law to compare Markov and Chelios

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06-04-2013, 10:20 AM
  #127
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Chelios was nearing his prime when traded, Markov is past his. It should be against the law to compare Markov and Chelios
guess you dont know why Savard thought it was a good idea to trade Chelios...

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06-04-2013, 11:55 AM
  #128
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Chelios was nearing his prime when traded, Markov is past his. It should be against the law to compare Markov and Chelios
For a guy past his prime, Markov was on pace to post his 3rd highest point totals of his career. He was tired in the playoffs because he was playing 24 minutes per night and had played the equivalent of 69 regular season games before the playoffs started. He was also being targeted after the Emelin injury. Markov is not past his due date, yet. He will be better, in regards to his conditioning next season due to how much he played this year. Ideally, Subban will be given a larger minute munching role, which will help Markov, as well. Once teams start to realize we have 2 top defencemen to watch out for, it will be harder to just target one or the other.

Chelios was the superior defenceman.

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06-04-2013, 12:21 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by PATCHESx67 View Post
if we're not in the playoffs race next season i could see Markov getting traded for prospect + pick
Playoff race or not I really like what the Sharks did this year with Clowe and Murray. If the intentions are to not bring back Markov and Gionta for example, I'd move them. Sharks swept the Cancuks and gave the Kings a run for their money and collected a **** load of picks

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06-04-2013, 12:23 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Playoff race or not I really like what the Sharks did this year with Clowe and Murray. If the intentions are to not bring back Markov and Gionta for example, I'd move them. Sharks swept the Cancuks and gave the Kings a run for their money and collected a **** load of picks
Are you trying to say that if we're in PO contention we trade Markov and Gionta because we could go on a similar run as SJ and get a **** load of picks?

Your evaluation of our team is flawed. Even if we don't bring back Gionta or Markov or both, if we're in the playoffs and performing well, you don't trade them. Especially Markov.

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06-04-2013, 12:27 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Are you trying to say that if we're in PO contention we trade Markov and Gionta because we could go on a similar run as SJ and get a **** load of picks?

Your evaluation of our team is flawed. Even if we don't bring back Gionta or Markov or both, if we're in the playoffs and performing well, you don't trade them. Especially Markov.
Yup just like we were performing this year

Or the way we did with players we let go for nothing like Souray and company. You sure have the recipe for success

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06-04-2013, 12:49 PM
  #132
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There are teams out there desperate for help on the PP. I still think we could get something decent for him.

We need to shore up our D though. And I don't think we can count on Markov to be healthy. We have to assume he'll miss a big part of the season. I'd rather be conservative and have him play healthy than assume he'll be there all season only to watch him get hurt.

We're not quite at the 'win it now' stage but we certainly don't want to be missing the playoffs at this stage. I wish we'd rebuilt more than we have but we're kind of at the point where we just need to start winning with what we've got. Markov is one of the guys that I'd look at trading just because I'm not sure what else he's got in the tank. I'm sure the Rangers would love to have him though... they desperately need a quarterback as their PP sucked.

If we trade him it can't just be for picks and prospects anymore. And that's going to make it harder to deal him.

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06-04-2013, 03:59 PM
  #133
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I like Markov and don't see us trading him but theres always a possibility.

Both Col & CBJ need to improve their PP. Markov to CBJ for the 19th overall pick or Markov to Col for #32 overall. Trade Weber and a 3/4th to Edm for Fistric.

I can definitely see CBJ trading a 1st rd to improve their team on draft day.

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06-05-2013, 02:06 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
His knees looked fine to me. He seems to be lacking speed and some mobility, but that might have to do with the fact he played 20 games in the 2 previous years.
But even if he doesn't gain back his speed and mobility, he has always been a smart Dman. He will have to adapt his game and play more of a positional game which means less pinching and smarter defense. No reason to think he won't be able to adjust.

Lidstrom slowed down considerably in his later year, yet he was still considered one of the best in the NHL.
Markov isn't Lidstrom, but he can adapt and remain a very very useful and key player.
We don't have time to wait for Markov to adjust. Dude is beat-up. Let's get rid of him now and look to the futur.

We are in a rebuild mode, not in a "win now" mode.

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06-05-2013, 07:33 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Yup just like we were performing this year

Or the way we did with players we let go for nothing like Souray and company. You sure have the recipe for success
You do too. Trade our best PP specialist while we're in the playoffs so that we minimize our chances at winning a SC.

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06-05-2013, 08:01 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
There are teams out there desperate for help on the PP. I still think we could get something decent for him.

We need to shore up our D though. And I don't think we can count on Markov to be healthy. We have to assume he'll miss a big part of the season. I'd rather be conservative and have him play healthy than assume he'll be there all season only to watch him get hurt.

We're not quite at the 'win it now' stage but we certainly don't want to be missing the playoffs at this stage. I wish we'd rebuilt more than we have but we're kind of at the point where we just need to start winning with what we've got. Markov is one of the guys that I'd look at trading just because I'm not sure what else he's got in the tank. I'm sure the Rangers would love to have him though... they desperately need a quarterback as their PP sucked.

If we trade him it can't just be for picks and prospects anymore. And that's going to make it harder to deal him.
He played a ton of minutes in a condensed schedule and didn't miss a game. I think it's flawed logic to think he will miss a big chunk of next year. fatigue was a factor in his play at times, but guys a lot younger and with less injuries also faced the same problem, part of it is not having played a lot the last 2 years and the other part is a crazy schedule. I think his overall game will be better next year and with Subban signed from day 1 his workload should be better managed.

That being said, moving him or signing him at some point in the next 6-9 months has to be one of the big issues on MB's docket. I don't like the idea of letting him walk at this stage in the team's development phase. I'm sure he would have a lot of value in a trade but also leave a big hole so it isn't an easy decision. Beaulieu should one day replace him somewhat but that may take 2-3 years, maybe more as he was only 20 this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Playoff race or not I really like what the Sharks did this year with Clowe and Murray. If the intentions are to not bring back Markov and Gionta for example, I'd move them. Sharks swept the Cancuks and gave the Kings a run for their money and collected a **** load of picks
That is more the exception than the rule, they had older/slower vets holding back young players, plus Clowe was having a crap year anyways. Markov plays a much bigger role than either of those two and would be very hard to replace.

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06-05-2013, 08:07 AM
  #137
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I like Markov and don't see us trading him but theres always a possibility.

Both Col & CBJ need to improve their PP. Markov to CBJ for the 19th overall pick or Markov to Col for #32 overall. Trade Weber and a 3/4th to Edm for Fistric.

I can definitely see CBJ trading a 1st rd to improve their team on draft day.
Fistric is a UFA July 5th, if you want his rights fine, but Weber alone is worth more than his rights let alone throwing in a 3rd or 4th rounder.

I think Markov is worth more than a 1st at the draft/off season. If I'm MB and considering moving him I'd even keep 1-1.5 mil in salary to make sure I maximise the assets coming back. Should get us at least a 1st(20th range, +- 3-4 picks) plus an NHL ready young player.

Phillie to me would be on Markov like white on rice.

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06-05-2013, 08:11 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
We don't have time to wait for Markov to adjust. Dude is beat-up. Let's get rid of him now and look to the futur.

We are in a rebuild mode, not in a "win now" mode.
Yet we're not in fire sale mode either.

No amount of wishful thinking will make the need for a ROI disappear.

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06-05-2013, 10:25 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
He played a ton of minutes in a condensed schedule and didn't miss a game. I think it's flawed logic to think he will miss a big chunk of next year. fatigue was a factor in his play at times, but guys a lot younger and with less injuries also faced the same problem, part of it is not having played a lot the last 2 years and the other part is a crazy schedule. I think his overall game will be better next year and with Subban signed from day 1 his workload should be better managed.
It's not that I think he'll get hurt. It's that I think we should plan for it. He's missed a lot of hockey the past few years and is getting older. We just shouldn't count on him for 82 games, that's all.
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That being said, moving him or signing him at some point in the next 6-9 months has to be one of the big issues on MB's docket. I don't like the idea of letting him walk at this stage in the team's development phase. I'm sure he would have a lot of value in a trade but also leave a big hole so it isn't an easy decision. Beaulieu should one day replace him somewhat but that may take 2-3 years, maybe more as he was only 20 this year.
You're right, we can't just let him walk. I think he has a no trade though so its going to be interesting if we're at the deadline and he still isn't signed.

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06-05-2013, 10:31 AM
  #140
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We don't have time to wait for Markov to adjust. Dude is beat-up. Let's get rid of him now and look to the futur.

We are in a rebuild mode, not in a "win now" mode.
I'm not sure what mode we're in now. The team had a great year with three young players taking prominent roles. Price, Max and Subban are close to their prime...

But we've got size issues and our D is a bit of a mess. We're in that weird 'in between stage' where we're still developing but not really truly rebuilding. Galchenyuk, Gallagher and Eller all took huge steps forward last year. Will they keep improving or will there be a fallback? Just don't know right now.

I'd say for the most part the future core of a winning team is there for the future. For the most part we know what we'll have going forward. Now its' time to let these guys play and show us what they can do.

MB knows we have to get bigger and that's what I expect from him this offseason. He can start by building up the D. We desperately need a big top 4 blueliner who can play rough. If he can land us a big solid guy there, it will go a long way for us next season.

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06-05-2013, 10:45 AM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I'm not sure what mode we're in now. The team had a great year with three young players taking prominent roles. Price, Max and Subban are close to their prime...

But we've got size issues and our D is a bit of a mess. We're in that weird 'in between stage' where we're still developing but not really truly rebuilding. Galchenyuk, Gallagher and Eller all took huge steps forward last year. Will they keep improving or will there be a fallback? Just don't know right now.

I'd say for the most part the future core of a winning team is there for the future. For the most part we know what we'll have going forward. Now its' time to let these guys play and show us what they can do.

MB knows we have to get bigger and that's what I expect from him this offseason. He can start by building up the D. We desperately need a big top 4 blueliner who can play rough. If he can land us a big solid guy there, it will go a long way for us next season.
I wanted Regehr and would have easily given him a two-year, 8 million deal. But alas, cannot come true (****in' Kings).

The next available option IMO, would be Zdlicky or Streit. I don't see Streit getting a 4+ year deal like some have said. I do seeing him getting a 3-year deal and would offer him 2-year, 11-12 million deal. Problem is with our current roster, have no cap for it.

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06-05-2013, 11:21 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
It's not that I think he'll get hurt. It's that I think we should plan for it. He's missed a lot of hockey the past few years and is getting older. We just shouldn't count on him for 82 games, that's all.

You're right, we can't just let him walk. I think he has a no trade though so its going to be interesting if we're at the deadline and he still isn't signed.
That's where guys like Bouillon and Diaz are valuable. Ideally they are #5 and #7 on the depth chart but can play bigger minutes if needed.

I would hope something gets done before the trade deadline, either sign an extension(obviously would have to be good value and tradeable) or move him.

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06-05-2013, 11:23 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
I wanted Regehr and would have easily given him a two-year, 8 million deal. But alas, cannot come true (****in' Kings).

The next available option IMO, would be Zdlicky or Streit. I don't see Streit getting a 4+ year deal like some have said. I do seeing him getting a 3-year deal and would offer him 2-year, 11-12 million deal. Problem is with our current roster, have no cap for it.
Streit or Zidlicky would be very poor fits for what we need, we have the cap room(9.5-10mil) for it but it would make no sense. That's adding more PMD's when we need a big stay at home/crease cleaner.

Scuderi?
Fistric?
Murray looks very slow.
Komisarek as a cheap "reclamation project"?

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06-05-2013, 11:34 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Streit or Zidlicky would be very poor fits for what we need, we have the cap room(9.5-10mil) for it but it would make no sense. That's adding more PMD's when we need a big stay at home/crease cleaner.

Scuderi?
Fistric?
Murray looks very slow.
Komisarek as a cheap "reclamation project"?
You are right. But none of the above are top 4 defenseman...

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06-05-2013, 11:41 AM
  #145
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I wonder how much Markov's declining skating will affect his game...

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06-05-2013, 11:57 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Playoff race or not I really like what the Sharks did this year with Clowe and Murray. If the intentions are to not bring back Markov and Gionta for example, I'd move them. Sharks swept the Cancuks and gave the Kings a run for their money and collected a **** load of picks
Clowe scored 0 goals for the Sharks this year and Murray was their 7th Dman.

Markov on the other hand finished top 4 in the NHL for pts, 2nd for PP pts. Gionta is our captain, tied for 3rd for Goals by forwards on our team, 2nd in PP goals from Forwards.

But yea, I totally get comparing them to someone that didn't score one goal and a Dman that barely played half their games. Totally the same situation.

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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
There are teams out there desperate for help on the PP. I still think we could get something decent for him.

We need to shore up our D though. And I don't think we can count on Markov to be healthy. We have to assume he'll miss a big part of the season. I'd rather be conservative and have him play healthy than assume he'll be there all season only to watch him get hurt.

We're not quite at the 'win it now' stage but we certainly don't want to be missing the playoffs at this stage. I wish we'd rebuilt more than we have but we're kind of at the point where we just need to start winning with what we've got. Markov is one of the guys that I'd look at trading just because I'm not sure what else he's got in the tank. I'm sure the Rangers would love to have him though... they desperately need a quarterback as their PP sucked.

If we trade him it can't just be for picks and prospects anymore. And that's going to make it harder to deal him.

To be fair, if we move Markov, I think we'll be the team desperately looking for a PP QB. Nobody has shown the ability to really QB our PP.
Unless we find someone capable of replacing him there and feeding PK some good precise passes, I have no interest in moving him. Unless we're obviously out of the running and Markov doesn't want to re-sign at a cheaper price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
We don't have time to wait for Markov to adjust. Dude is beat-up. Let's get rid of him now and look to the futur.

We are in a rebuild mode, not in a "win now" mode.
So beat up he just finished 2nd in the NHL for PP pts, top 4 overall for points. Ya, I think I'll be a little more patient with the guy, it might just be worth it.

Sometimes, it's a lot better to risk keeping the player than to trade him away for cheap value.

What if Markov isn't beat-up? Just entertain this idea. Then what? You trade him for a return that really doesn't match his actual value, you see him perform well on another team, again one of the leaders in pp Pts in the NHL, we whine about how we need a QB for our PP. Awesome.

If we were talking about a Souray type of player, then I'd agree with you because even if he isn't beat up, he still isn't that great no matter how serviceable.
Markov on the other hand, if he can adjust his game focusing a lot more on smart positioning (like Lidstrom had to do) , reduce his pinches, and be smart when engaging battles in the corners (to protect himself), then he can remain a very, very solid Dman. Not to mention his always present offensive production.

So ya, I'm gonna wait to see how he performs this year before jumping the gun. Maybe he slowed down due to other reason than the very simple ''he's beat up''.
Maybe it's due to him playing 20 games in the past 2 years before this season?
Maybe it's due to him losing his partner and simply not having the same balance with his replacement?
If you look back at his career, Markov always looked best when paired with a bigger defensive guy. So it isn't surprising he didn't look as good without Emelin.
Maybe it's the fact he played 48 games in 99 days? Not to mention the games in the KHL.

I mean, didn't the whole team look beat up by season's end? So why is it that Markov needs to be traded because of it? The whole team seem to downshift into a lower gear, it wasn't just Markov.
Heck, people were even saying that for a 19yo rookie. They were saying how Gally is probably tired having played so little last year when he went through his funk. Markov played barely played over the past 3years!

Markov's season was a success, not a failure. This was an amazing bounce back year for him. I don't understand how anybody can view it and not be excited about having him back. Skeptical that he can remain healthy, fine, I get it. I have my doubts as well. But I'm not risking trading him. The return we'll get will never be better than him if he's able to keep adapting. So, I much rather gamble on him than against.

And we're not in a rebuild mode. We're in a transitional period where the youngsters are taking over.

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06-05-2013, 12:00 PM
  #147
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You are right. But none of the above are top 4 defenseman...
Scuderi isn't top 4?
He's always been a top 4.

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06-05-2013, 12:06 PM
  #148
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You are right. But none of the above are top 4 defenseman...
Scuderi is, but the price may be prohibitive.

In an ideal world there are 3-4 "Regehrs" in the UFA market and we would get one for 3 years at about 3.5 mil cap hit...but it's a weak UFA market plus most of the top d-men are offensive guys...Streit Zidlicky Gonchar Whitney.

Instead of trying to find something that isn't there, look more for a big #5-6 like Fistric or Strachan that may not be a minute eater but can be a good fit for the PMD's we have as a partner. Plus it leaves more cash for help up front.

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06-05-2013, 12:16 PM
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Scuderi isn't top 4?
He's always been a top 4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Scuderi is, but the price may be prohibitive.

In an ideal world there are 3-4 "Regehrs" in the UFA market and we would get one for 3 years at about 3.5 mil cap hit...but it's a weak UFA market plus most of the top d-men are offensive guys...Streit Zidlicky Gonchar Whitney.

Instead of trying to find something that isn't there, look more for a big #5-6 like Fistric or Strachan that may not be a minute eater but can be a good fit for the PMD's we have as a partner. Plus it leaves more cash for help up front.
Maybe i'm undervaluing Scuderi, as I just think he's a taller version of Gorges, who IMO isn't a top 4, arguably #4/#5 defenseman.

Scuderi I would say is, now that I think about it, in LA and was in Pittsburgh. How much do you think he would demand in FA?

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06-05-2013, 12:21 PM
  #150
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Maybe i'm undervaluing Scuderi, as I just think he's a taller version of Gorges, who IMO isn't a top 4, arguably #4/#5 defenseman.

Scuderi I would say is, now that I think about it, in LA and was in Pittsburgh. How much do you think he would demand in FA?
I think you're undervaluing both. Both are legit #3-4 NHL d-men.

Scuderi is playing #2 minutes in LA these playoffs and was getting #3 minutes during the season. He gor #3 minutes last yaer on a cup winner, season and playoffs.

Hard to say due to him being 34...maybe 3 years at 13.5-14.5 mil.

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