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Long-term roster-building discussion (Full contract chart in post #1)

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Old
06-04-2013, 09:57 AM
  #951
regard
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Whole lotta crazy on this board right now. Not unexpected I probably should go away until either 1) The series gets interesting or 2) October

Whats with all this "trade Letang for a #1 defenseman" nonsense?

First of all he just got nominated for the Norris.

Second yeah hes playing like a basket case right now. But Coaching/System should be able to clean that up.

Third if hes not a true #1 defenseman how do you expect to trade him for one? What team is going to trade us a "#1 defensemen" for our "wannabe"?

Fourth for those advocating doing it for cap purposes how much do you think this magickal "true" number 1 dman will cost? Less somehow?? Right.

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06-04-2013, 10:04 AM
  #952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regard View Post
Whole lotta crazy on this board right now. Not unexpected I probably should go away until either 1) The series gets interesting or 2) October

Whats with all this "trade Letang for a #1 defenseman" nonsense?

First of all he just got nominated for the Norris.

Second yeah hes playing like a basket case right now. But Coaching/System should be able to clean that up.

Third if hes not a true #1 defenseman how do you expect to trade him for one? What team is going to trade us a "#1 defensemen" for our "wannabe"?

Fourth for those advocating doing it for cap purposes how much do you think this magickal "true" number 1 dman will cost? Less somehow?? Right.
This, I keep wondering the same thing. But overreacting after every game is pretty comon here.

Also, there always HAS to be a scape goat. Never can people accept that the opposition is just...better.

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06-04-2013, 10:09 AM
  #953
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Originally Posted by Randy Butternubs View Post
How great would it be if we could turn Letang into Shea Weber? You know, someone who can play defense and still provide decent offense.
Well if we want to do some radical change we could do something like

Letang(+) for 1st Overall (Nathan MacKinnon)

and

Malkin for Shea Weber

Sucks giving up Malkin but it kinda makes us a better all around team

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06-04-2013, 10:15 AM
  #954
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Originally Posted by stayinalive View Post
Well if we want to do some radical change we could do something like

Letang(+) for 1st Overall (Nathan MacKinnon)

and

Malkin for Shea Weber

Sucks giving up Malkin but it kinda makes us a better all around team
Yeah...no.

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06-04-2013, 10:17 AM
  #955
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I only mentioned "Letang for Weber" because I've seen numerous people say that Letang should go before Malkin. I know it wouldn't be saving us much $$$ but wouldn't it be awesome if we did turn Letang into Weber?

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06-04-2013, 10:20 AM
  #956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stayinalive View Post
Well if we want to do some radical change we could do something like

Letang(+) for 1st Overall (Nathan MacKinnon)

and

Malkin for Shea Weber

Sucks giving up Malkin but it kinda makes us a better all around team
that's terrible. absolutely terrible. no, that's turrible. sir charles style.

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06-04-2013, 10:33 AM
  #957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stayinalive View Post
Well if we want to do some radical change we could do something like

Letang(+) for 1st Overall (Nathan MacKinnon)

and

Malkin for Shea Weber

Sucks giving up Malkin but it kinda makes us a better all around team
Could you explain how?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Butternubs
I only mentioned "Letang for Weber" because I've seen numerous people say that Letang should go before Malkin. I know it wouldn't be saving us much $$$ but wouldn't it be awesome if we did turn Letang into Weber?
IDK would it? Depends on how you think thats going to go down. Also why would either team do it?

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06-04-2013, 10:51 AM
  #958
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i would be kinda happy if we traded Geno right now, 1 of the most skilled players in the world but sometimes lazy, we all know what Geno can do

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06-04-2013, 10:58 AM
  #959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regard View Post
Also why would either team do it?
Because the fans of the Penguins demand it.

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06-04-2013, 11:11 AM
  #960
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I said even before this series that i wouldnt mind moving letang ni the off-season. We need to spread the wealth a litte. Seeing MAlking demanding upwards 10m and Letang 7.5-8 i dont see us being able to be so top-heavy with big contracts and fill the rest wth rookies and craig adams types.

Or trade malkin for that matter. We would get 1st rounder (any of them) +blue-chip prospect+roster player in return.

I dont want to do it, but we cant aford to have too many big contracts.

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06-04-2013, 11:13 AM
  #961
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regard View Post
Whole lotta crazy on this board right now. Not unexpected I probably should go away until either 1) The series gets interesting or 2) October

Whats with all this "trade Letang for a #1 defenseman" nonsense?

First of all he just got nominated for the Norris.

Second yeah hes playing like a basket case right now. But Coaching/System should be able to clean that up.

Third if hes not a true #1 defenseman how do you expect to trade him for one? What team is going to trade us a "#1 defensemen" for our "wannabe"?

Fourth for those advocating doing it for cap purposes how much do you think this magickal "true" number 1 dman will cost? Less somehow?? Right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milliardo View Post
This, I keep wondering the same thing. But overreacting after every game is pretty comon here.

Also, there always HAS to be a scape goat. Never can people accept that the opposition is just...better.
I agree. Good posts.

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06-04-2013, 11:57 AM
  #962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regard View Post
Whole lotta crazy on this board right now. Not unexpected I probably should go away until either 1) The series gets interesting or 2) October

Whats with all this "trade Letang for a #1 defenseman" nonsense?

First of all he just got nominated for the Norris.

Second yeah hes playing like a basket case right now. But Coaching/System should be able to clean that up.

Third if hes not a true #1 defenseman how do you expect to trade him for one? What team is going to trade us a "#1 defensemen" for our "wannabe"?

Fourth for those advocating doing it for cap purposes how much do you think this magickal "true" number 1 dman will cost? Less somehow?? Right.
1. He gets nominated for Norris because of his offensive numbers (i.e. 50% of his blind passes to Malkin or Crosby work...)

2. The other go straight to the back of our net...

3. Not hating on him at all but he's not a great defender, read and then comment. YOU completely took the post to some other level then you have people egg on like someone said Letang is horrible, Letang should be traded, Letang is crap and should be blamed. Make stuff up much?

4. Eyes of Orpik followed up nicely... basically 6.5+ million is a little much for a guy who DOES NOT defend well. He doesn't.

5. One thing I'm worried about is his growth. Does anyone think his hockey IQ is growing? He has ALOT of bad play and turnovers and it seems about the same rate as he started. Basically, you have to when to fold and when to hold and he still seems like a wild card out there.

Love the offense but I'd prefer less points, less brain farts, and more sound defense and positioning from a guy making 6.5 million +

This is the long term team building thread correct? The question was "Don't you think Letang is a little too offensive and not enough Defense for a LT 7M dollar contract...


Last edited by sexyllama: 06-04-2013 at 12:10 PM.
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Old
06-04-2013, 12:28 PM
  #963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sexyllama View Post
1. He gets nominated for Norris because of his offensive numbers (i.e. 50% of his blind passes to Malkin or Crosby work...)

2. The other go straight to the back of our net...

3. Not hating on him at all but he's not a great defender, read and then comment. YOU completely took the post to some other level then you have people egg on like someone said Letang is horrible, Letang should be traded, Letang is crap and should be blamed. Make stuff up much?

4. Eyes of Orpik followed up nicely... basically 6.5+ million is a little much for a guy who DOES NOT defend well. He doesn't.

5. One thing I'm worried about is his growth. Does anyone think his hockey IQ is growing? He has ALOT of bad play and turnovers and it seems about the same rate as he started. Basically, you have to when to fold and when to hold and he still seems like a wild card out there.

Love the offense but I'd prefer less points, less brain farts, and more sound defense and positioning from a guy making 6.5 million +

This is the long term team building thread correct? The question was "Don't you think Letang is a little too offensive and not enough Defense for a LT 7M dollar contract...
1/2. You want him traded for a dman thats better defensively. I think he can be better defensively. Whether its system or coaching hes allowed to do alot. Not all of it bad, because his athleticism covers up for alot.
You wanna talk about making stuff up? He wasnt nominated for the norris trohpy for blind passes, his offensive prowess entails alot more than passing to Crosby and Malkin.
And you didnt address my question about how is a more defensive minded #1 dman going to cost less?

3.
Quote:
Not hating on him at all but he's not a great defender, read and then comment.
Did I address you directly? Sure didnt.
Quote:
YOU completely took the post to some other level then you have people egg on like someone said Letang is horrible, Letang should be traded, Letang is crap and should be blamed. Make stuff up much?
Oh yeah? Where did I say people said that hes crap? And people are saying he should be traded. Not sure why your getting personal or what your reading.

4. That still doesnt address my points.

5. Yes he does. Hes not the only one on this team that has such issues though.
Hence my original point about coaching/system. Basically meaning I'd like to see the coaching crack down the on the players continuously making such mistakes and getting things more structured rather than letting everyone have free reins.

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06-04-2013, 01:01 PM
  #964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regard View Post
1/2. You want him traded for a dman thats better defensively. I think he can be better defensively. Whether its system or coaching hes allowed to do alot. Not all of it bad, because his athleticism covers up for alot.
You wanna talk about making stuff up? He wasnt nominated for the norris trohpy for blind passes, his offensive prowess entails alot more than passing to Crosby and Malkin.
And you didnt address my question about how is a more defensive minded #1 dman going to cost less?

3.
Did I address you directly? Sure didnt.

Oh yeah? Where did I say people said that hes crap? And people are saying he should be traded. Not sure why your getting personal or what your reading.

4. That still doesnt address my points.

5. Yes he does. Hes not the only one on this team that has such issues though.
Hence my original point about coaching/system. Basically meaning I'd like to see the coaching crack down the on the players continuously making such mistakes and getting things more structured rather than letting everyone have free reins.
So, you think he's worth 7m? and we need a new coach?

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06-04-2013, 01:51 PM
  #965
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With Crosby struggling again in the playoffs and his injury history do you really want to entertain offers for Malkin?


PS. how many buyouts does this team have


Last edited by lastcupever75: 06-04-2013 at 01:56 PM.
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06-04-2013, 01:54 PM
  #966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sexyllama View Post
So, you think he's worth 7m? and we need a new coach?

Can't respond to anything I've said? Probably shouldn't put words in my mouth and get personal then. I didn't say he deserves any amount of money. I said you can't trade a player for a more complete player at the same position. And that such a player wouldn't cost less. I'm also saying Letang is getting a bad rap right now but there's a lot of players playing poorly.

But since I'm not afraid to answer questions directed at me. If Letang is one of the top scoring defensemen in the league then he probably will deserve that. And I'd hope coaching could clean up his decision making. If the team gets to be too to heavy I'm not saying he can't be traded but to think he's going to be traded for a better player somehow is nonsense.

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06-04-2013, 01:54 PM
  #967
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I'd definatley try a new system (coach) before trading letang. Too skilled and still too young to give up on

Get rid of Martin. He's no #1 DMan on either end of the Ice. Can't clear his mother from out in front of the net.

And the more I see this team afraid to get dirty, the more I think a guy like Bickel would do wonders. Big fast strong. Not afraid to go into the dirty areas and he's a load to move out once he is.
This team needs someone like that in the top 6

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06-04-2013, 02:05 PM
  #968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regard View Post
Can't respond to anything I've said? Probably shouldn't put words in my mouth and get personal then. I didn't say he deserves any amount of money. I said you can't trade a player for a more complete player at the same position. And that such a player wouldn't cost less. I'm also saying Letang is getting a bad rap right now but there's a lot of players playing poorly.

But since I'm not afraid to answer questions directed at me. If Letang is one of the top scoring defensemen in the league then he probably will deserve that. And I'd hope coaching could clean up his decision making. If the team gets to be too to heavy I'm not saying he can't be traded but to think he's going to be traded for a better player somehow is nonsense.
Actually, you are full of **** and since you didn't respond to mine then I didn't respond to you...

My original post: (see I don't really care about your exposition... I'm on the LONG TERM TEAM BUILDING THREAD... My question was: Do we think Letang is worth 6.5 million +

I take it your answer is yes and a new coach. Sorry, I don't care about anything else you like to make up...

Do we really want to sign Letang at 6.5+ million for a guy who really isn't a great defender? Maybe work a trade to get a top 5 pick or a true #1 Defense first guy?

#1 Defender, Despres
Martin, Orpik
Bortuzzo, Engy, Dumo, etc..

Overall a better DEFENSE would help this team in the long run. i.e. would you rather have Letang or McDonagh or Ekmann Larsson... I look at the stats and what we need and they seem to be a better fit. Not hating Letang, but he's a little too much offense and not enough defense. Any one of the top teams would want Letang.

Also, I'm pretty sure Letang could get us a top pick.


Last edited by sexyllama: 06-04-2013 at 02:12 PM.
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06-04-2013, 02:06 PM
  #969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lastcupever75 View Post
I'd definatley try a new system (coach) before trading letang. Too skilled and still too young to give up on

Get rid of Martin. He's no #1 DMan on either end of the Ice. Can't clear his mother from out in front of the net.

And the more I see this team afraid to get dirty, the more I think a guy like Bickel would do wonders. Big fast strong. Not afraid to go into the dirty areas and he's a load to move out once he is.
This team needs someone like that in the top 6
Martin has been by far our best defensemen on the ice... he's been bad a few plays but by far he's actually played defense.

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06-04-2013, 02:36 PM
  #970
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Actually one of my original questions was how are we trading Letang for a supposedly better defensemen. As in you think McDonagh and OEL are better(classic HF) so how are we going to trade Letang for either? And once their so much better you think they won't cost what Letang will? Got it.

What's with all the "I'm on the roster building..."? Who said you weren't? Are we not allowed to question each others points?

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06-04-2013, 02:44 PM
  #971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regard View Post
Actually one of my original questions was how are we trading Letang for a supposedly better defensemen. As in you think McDonagh and OEL are better(classic HF) so how are we going to trade Letang for either? And once their so much better you think they won't cost what Letang will? Got it.

What's with all the "I'm on the roster building..."? Who said you weren't? Are we not allowed to question each others points?
I never said we could trade for them. I said it seems like they are better "archetypes" for a 6.5+ million dollar defender. Eyes of Orpik and others pointed this out. I.E OEL and McD seem like the Shea Weber/Sutter prototype #1 where LETANG is like a 1B type not defensive enough but every bit the athletic to be a 1.

I'm not saying trade or this person sucks. I was wondering what people thought of paying 6.5+ for a guy who actually DOES NOT defend well and still doesn't make rock solid decisions....

If I'm correct you think he's a SOLID #1 and we need some coaching for him. Better linemate? Who?

Letang/Harrington?

1- Letang/Orpik
2- Martin/Dumo
3. Despres/Borts?

I personally don't think he's worth 6.5+ as stated above...

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06-04-2013, 03:03 PM
  #972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sexyllama View Post
I never said we could trade for them. I said it seems like they are better "archetypes" for a 6.5+ million dollar defender. Eyes of Orpik and others pointed this out. I.E OEL and McD seem like the Shea Weber/Sutter prototype #1 where LETANG is like a 1B type not defensive enough but every bit the athletic to be a 1.

I'm not saying trade or this person sucks. I was wondering what people thought of paying 6.5+ for a guy who actually DOES NOT defend well and still doesn't make rock solid decisions....

If I'm correct you think he's a SOLID #1 and we need some coaching for him. Better linemate? Who?

Letang/Harrington?

1- Letang/Orpik
2- Martin/Dumo
3. Despres/Borts?

I personally don't think he's worth 6.5+ as stated above...
You realise I never addressed you originally? I was commenting on a general consensus I was seeing that Letang needed to be traded and a more well rounded #1 brought in. I was asking how that was going to work and never got an answer to those questions. I dont see the point of speculating on something unless theres some idea as to how it would be possible.

And yes I think Letang should be capable of being more well rounded. He has all the tools. If he cant be reined in then maybe something drastic needs to be done. But you know you can say alot of the same things about Malkin. Great offensively, sporadic defensively(Malkin used to be consistantly good defensively IMO) but keeps making the same mistakes/turnovers. This is why I mention coaching. These players are too talented to be incapable of getting more structured. Whether its the system or the coaches themselves, Bylsma or the Defensive coach IDK but its a hell of alot easier to replace a coach then it is to tweak a team when your talking about really high level players. And since we have Letang and Malkin under contract for another season.....yes that is the direction I would go. (This might belong in the coaching thread but its relevant for now.)

And yeah I think a long term partner is certainly going to be in order. As good as Eaton was I was a little nervous going into a season with the expectations we all had with a stop gap dman playing with our #1. I'd love to think that Harrington (maybe Dumoulin, Despres or eventually Pouliot but I especially like the thought of Harrington) being his future partner. If it would work out that would also help solve the cap issue having a young player on an affordable contract for a few seasons helping to even out the cost of the top pairing.

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06-04-2013, 03:10 PM
  #973
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My friend and I were talking about Letang and he mentioned something interesting.



D Keith Yandle
2013 1st round pick (12th overall)




D Kris Letang

Penguins wanted Yandle last summer and Letang is a Norris-caliber D-man.

Thoughts?

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06-04-2013, 03:10 PM
  #974
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I sincerely hope the coach goes before Malkin or Letang. I'm not sure that Letang wouldn't give you a lot more with a coach like Carlyle or Tippett. And, I think the Pens would rue the day they trade Malkin because teams trading generational talents never win the trade, especially when the generational talent has one year left on his deal and all the incentive in the world to wait for unrestricted free agency.

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06-04-2013, 03:19 PM
  #975
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Speaking of Long Term RW?

Some of you say keep Iginla at 4m/per?
What would you think of D. Clarkson at 4/m per?

???- Crosby-Clarkson
???- Malkin -Neal

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