HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Notices

2013 Draft Thread IV–June 30 3pm–8 16 38 52 69 129 130 143 159 189–Draft Primer in OP

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-03-2013, 06:08 PM
  #76
Stop Winnin
TANK ON BOYS
 
Stop Winnin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 8,444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Can we agree that if we miss out on MacKinnon, Barkov, Drouin, Nichushkin, Lindholm, and Monahan its a fail?
Yep.

Stop Winnin is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 06:35 PM
  #77
Sabreality
Registered User
 
Sabreality's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 3,802
vCash: 500
wait, so now the 1st rounds a fail if Darcy doesnt find a dance partner (or isnt willing to sell the farm) and they get 'stuck' with Risto & Erne/Lazar or Horvat & Santini or the like?

thankfully only 4 more weeks to go

Sabreality is online now  
Old
06-03-2013, 06:36 PM
  #78
Zman5778
Registered User
 
Zman5778's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: York, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 3,619
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Zman5778 Send a message via MSN to Zman5778 Send a message via Yahoo to Zman5778
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Can we agree that if we miss out on MacKinnon, Barkov, Drouin, Nichushkin, Lindholm, and Monahan its a fail?
Nope. Ristolainen/Nurse/Horvat would still be just fine.

Zman5778 is online now  
Old
06-03-2013, 06:57 PM
  #79
CaptPantalones
Registered User
 
CaptPantalones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 4,243
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Can we agree that if we miss out on MacKinnon, Barkov, Drouin, Nichushkin, Lindholm, and Monahan its a fail?
Yeah, no.

Id be more then happy with Nurse @ 8 and Lazar/Mueller @ 16

CaptPantalones is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 07:07 PM
  #80
New Sabres Captain
ForFriendshipDikembe
 
New Sabres Captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 38,004
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Can we agree that if we miss out on MacKinnon, Barkov, Drouin, Nichushkin, Lindholm, and Monahan its a fail?
Not a fail, just means the teams in front of us weren't stupid and took the best players off the board.

Now, if one of those guys are on the board, and the Sabres instead reached for Zadorov or someone, then it would be a fail.

New Sabres Captain is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 08:09 PM
  #81
ZZamboni
Puttin' on the Foil
 
ZZamboni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 10,145
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrigsAndGirgs View Post
Not a fail, just means the teams in front of us weren't stupid and took the best players off the board.

Now, if one of those guys are on the board, and the Sabres instead reached for Zadorov or someone, then it would be a fail.
I agree 100%. Well said.

ZZamboni is online now  
Old
06-03-2013, 08:24 PM
  #82
Woodhouse
Global Moderator
 
Woodhouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 7,354
vCash: 666
http://futureconsiderations.ca/playe...erik-Gauthier/
Quote:
Gauthier is a big, two-way performer that projects well as a second or third line pro centre. He works the boards and protects the puck well. You can play him comfortably on either special teams unit. Gauthier is a very good skater especially for his massive size. He uses his size and reach to cover ground defensively. He has shown a scoring touch early this season, mostly finding rebounds or converting opportunities from the slot with smooth hands and his quick wrist-shot. He is definitely more of a scoring threat than a playmaker.

Woodhouse is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 08:27 PM
  #83
Jacob582
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,099
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegomyLeggio View Post
I wouldn't give up 16 to move up 3 spots unless Barkov is there at 5.

Even then it would be hard.
I agree.

Jacob582 is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 10:01 PM
  #84
Chainshot
Global Moderator
Give 'em Enough Rope
 
Chainshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Costa Rica
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 56,236
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I'd be hard pressed to complain about any combination of 1st round picks that includes Lindholm. I'm fine with Santini, as well, especially as I continue to read more about him.

Also, I like that Baker seems to reason through each pick rather than just throwing a name at a team based on where they were ranked on certain draft lists.
Same here regarding Lindholm.

Kris is also pretty shrewd when looking at other team's tendencies, needs, etc.... He predicted Austin Watson to the Nashville to Poile walking into the draft a few years back.

__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
Chainshot is offline  
Old
06-04-2013, 12:03 AM
  #85
SundherDome
Jhonas is an Ewok
 
SundherDome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Minneapolis,MN
Country: United States
Posts: 1,492
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Same here regarding Lindholm.

Kris is also pretty shrewd when looking at other team's tendencies, needs, etc.... He predicted Austin Watson to the Nashville to Poile walking into the draft a few years back.
Its hard to predict what those timebombs will do in front of us .. Carolina doesn't like to draft dmen in round one they haven't taken a russian in the first round in a long time iirc.. Feaster is like that one friend we all have where we can take advatage of or give bad advice to make something seem like a good idea ..and edmonton has mactavish who will most likely take a forward or screw us out of a good forward and trade down two or three spots and take nurse ..risto ..or horvat .. which leads it back to us. I think darcy can fleece feaster one more time say ... 6th and Giordano for 8 +Stafford or 16? Come on Jay its a hell of a deal just like volcano insurance.


Last edited by SundherDome: 06-04-2013 at 09:09 AM. Reason: forgot tambs is not the gm
SundherDome is offline  
Old
06-04-2013, 01:32 AM
  #86
CaptPantalones
Registered User
 
CaptPantalones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 4,243
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanekTheMvp View Post
Its hard to predict what those timebombs will do in front of us .. Carolina doesn't like to draft dmen in round one they haven't taken a russian in the first round in a long time iirc.. Feaster is like that one friend we all have where we can take advatage of or give bad advice to make something seem like a good idea ..and edmonton has tambellini who will most likely take a forward or screw us out of a good forward and trade down two or three spots and take nurse ..risto ..or horvat .. which leads it back to us. I think darcy can fleece feaster one more time say ... 6th and Giordano for 8 +Stafford or 16? Come on Jay its a hell of a deal just like volcano insurance.
Tambellini was fired. Craig mactavish is the GM. And to add to Carolina, nischukin is represented by the same agent as Alex Semin

CaptPantalones is offline  
Old
06-04-2013, 02:38 AM
  #87
jBuds
pretty damn valuable
 
jBuds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NYC Suburbs
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 26,835
vCash: 500
Draft-Defensemen Dissection: Volume 2 - Steve Santini

From now until the draft, I will be analyzing a handful of the top draft-eligible defensemen for this upcoming draft. I've collected tons of full games (where I can), highlights, scouting reports, articles, and everything relevant, and picking them apart and going over them with a fine-toothed comb. Feel free to pass right over the writeups, or read and comment on my observations.

___________________________________

Volume 2

Steve Santini, US U-18 NTDP

ISS: 17th | CS: 47th (NA) | THN: 65th

I couldn't wait anymore for the Santini edition. I was going to do his writeup 6th or 7th, but I had too much fun doing this project on him already having the knowledge of what kind of prospect he is. so.....

Forgive my bias, but Steve Santini is one of my favorite prospects at any position in the entire draft. I've had the privilege of watching him grow up as a player. I've coached against him in Peewees and Bantams, watched him stick out like a sore thumb for Kennedy Catholic in HS, watched him practice and play for Team Hudson Valley in the Empire State Games, watched him play and practice with Applecore, kept as close of an eye on him with the NTDP as possible, and enjoyed him in the Prospects game in Buffalo & the U18 Worlds. I am anxious and eager to watch him continue to develop at BC.

He's an all-World character, a quieter leader with a brilliant mind for the position of defense, and the game of hockey overall. His father owns the top rink/facility in Westchester, so this kid has literally, in all senses, grown up on the ice and in the rink. He gushes and drips the sport. Frankly, I am shocked that it is only now that his stock is skyrocketing - anyone who has kept tabs on him should've seen that he oozes with potential and will absolutely (yes: ABSOLUTELY) be an NHL defenseman for a while. Mature, smart, wise beyond his years.

Pros: where to start? He thinks the position as well as you could ask. Disciplined defenseman with size and an underrated shot in terms of power. Fantastic gap control, a fluid stride, and smooth skater, particularly when skating backwards. His stick work - in front, on the 1on1 rushes, & in the corners - is a noticeable asset. He blocks shots, positioning himself in the shooting lanes when appropriate, shutting down the middle of the ice and forcing you to take the shot from out wide or from a different, poor angle. He's gritty, and does whatever is asked of him by coaches, partners, teammates, etc. Fantastic use of his body mass in terms of jolting opponents off of the puck. He won't obliterate every guy who bears down on him, but if he gets a piece of him, the puck carrier and puck are usually separated as a result. Uses his body while remaining ridiculously disciplined; doesn't take penalties. G-R-I-T-T-Y.

For this writeup, I asked his Applecore goalie to describe him in as succinct of a manner as he could. Response: "total mental ease from me when he is on the ice...the kind of defenseman you want and need in front of you...you tell him to skate to the wall, and he skates through the wall, into the lobby, through the wall of (the adjacent rink), and outside to the (picnic benches). The rare guy (out of those) I've played with who is all heart but has the skill to boot to separate him so far from everyone else"

Cons: hesitant to join the rush at times. He can skate and wheel, but he seems like he would rather stay home when given the option. Could be more vocal of a leader. Needs to realize that, when in the offensive zone, simply getting the shot to the net is a job well done - it doesn't have to be a howitzer. He will need to learn to use the bodying ability more in College, relying less on the fantastic stick, to round out his game. Needs to improve shot accuracy as well.

FAVORITE: the way he plays 1on1s... Forgive me if I don't describe this as well as I can, but it's tough to describe. He leaves the opponent with such a limited amount of options. He funnels you into an unwanted or imperfect area, and he teases you with a close stick - just when you realize you've been funneled uncomfortably wide and have no other option than to send it to the net, his stick comes out of nowhere and deflects the shot out of harm's way. SO tough to play against in that regard, and those who've played the game (from both perspectives, F and D) should be able to picture what I imply, and how great a skill (art) it is as a dman and how annoying it is as a forward. He's a vacuum in a good way...sucks the chances up and leaves opponents minimal opportunity for anything but a thwarted rush.

HATE IT: that he lacks confidence in an offensive sense, because any time he exhibits that part of his game, it's great. That aspect has come a long way the last two calendar years, and many scouting reports have developed to indicate that he is indeed a two-way defenseman...but there can be some injections in confidence at BC to boost that term.

Standout Draft Moment: being named the Top Defenseman at the U-18 World Championships without registering a point. Went against the World's top lines of the best of the best of players his age, and was really the leading reason why Team USA allowed a remarkable, tournament-leading sub-24 shots per game.

If we took him at 8, I'd...be surprised, but would lead the campaign that'd try to calm you all about how - despite the fact that more tantalizing, higher rated prospects are on the board - reaching for the next standout McD-man will prove worth it in five to seven years. He won't go that high, though

If we took him at 16, I'd...love it, and again try to make you cognizant of how prospects like this are worth it down the road...encouraging you to forget who else may have been on the board

Ridiculously-specific Comparable, Best Case: He would play like he came from a laboratory that combines the best traits of Ryan McDonagh and Dan Girardi, and sprinkles in a meticulous type of the best of Brent Seabrook's offensive game (shot in particular)





Volume 1 - Nikita Zadorov


Last edited by jBuds: 06-04-2013 at 04:42 AM. Reason: added Volume 1 link
jBuds is offline  
Old
06-04-2013, 05:47 AM
  #88
SabresAreScaryGood
McDavid 2015!!!
 
SabresAreScaryGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 3,748
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabreality View Post
wait, so now the 1st rounds a fail if Darcy doesnt find a dance partner (or isnt willing to sell the farm) and they get 'stuck' with Risto & Erne/Lazar or Horvat & Santini or the like?

thankfully only 4 more weeks to go
You can always find a dance partner. Heck, when we drafted Myers we moved up 1 spot. Edmonton could be a target. You never know, a team could make a trade with Edmonton and jump us.

It seems like there is a considerable drop in quality after those 6 forwards. Obviously still good players available, but not the same level.

SabresAreScaryGood is offline  
Old
06-04-2013, 06:17 AM
  #89
Rob Paxon
Z E M G U S
 
Rob Paxon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: corfu, ny
Country: United States
Posts: 16,416
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Rob Paxon
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
You can always find a dance partner. Heck, when we drafted Myers we moved up 1 spot. Edmonton could be a target. You never know, a team could make a trade with Edmonton and jump us.

It seems like there is a considerable drop in quality after those 6 forwards. Obviously still good players available, but not the same level.
It's much different trading up from 13 to 12 than from 8 to 5 or even 7, especially in a much stronger draft. What needs to happen is a team has to not have a specific favorite among those top few guys or believe their favorite will be available at 8. If a team doesn't feel that way then you'd have to massively overpay, so it'd be hard to hold Buffalo accountable if that's the case.

Rob Paxon is online now  
Old
06-04-2013, 06:32 AM
  #90
SabresAreScaryGood
McDavid 2015!!!
 
SabresAreScaryGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 3,748
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
It's much different trading up from 13 to 12 than from 8 to 5 or even 7, especially in a much stronger draft. What needs to happen is a team has to not have a specific favorite among those top few guys or believe their favorite will be available at 8. If a team doesn't feel that way then you'd have to massively overpay, so it'd be hard to hold Buffalo accountable if that's the case.
The way I look at it is the Sabres are in a position not many teams ever are in, they are willing to go through a long rebuild and have many assets to deal.

I just cant believe a team picking 4-7 would turn down a deal that includes Vanek. The Sabres could even pay half his salary I believe, maybe I am wrong.

Plus we have these picks to sweeten any deal including Vanek. We may not be able to get up into the top 3, but starting at 4 it seems reasonable knowing what we have to deal.

SabresAreScaryGood is offline  
Old
06-04-2013, 07:34 AM
  #91
Rob Paxon
Z E M G U S
 
Rob Paxon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: corfu, ny
Country: United States
Posts: 16,416
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Rob Paxon
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
The way I look at it is the Sabres are in a position not many teams ever are in, they are willing to go through a long rebuild and have many assets to deal.

I just cant believe a team picking 4-7 would turn down a deal that includes Vanek. The Sabres could even pay half his salary I believe, maybe I am wrong.

Plus we have these picks to sweeten any deal including Vanek. We may not be able to get up into the top 3, but starting at 4 it seems reasonable knowing what we have to deal.
I think it'd take significantly different deals for each slot. Each slot has different value, each team has different roster+organizational needs, and each team will have a different draft board. So the tricky part is finding a team that is willing to move down due to its draft board + organizational needs while desiring what we're willing to part with. Then, will that team be in a slot where it's worth overpaying to get the guy high up on OUR draft board (Drouin, Barkov, whoever it is in the Sabres' eyes)? If not the Sabres may not be willing to meet the price.

I'm all in favor for aggressively exploring many different trade-up scenarios, whether 5-7 to ensure we get at least one of the bigger guys, or into the top 4 to get a specific guy/one of the franchise guys. It's just that it's easier said than done. Once you find the team willing to trade and able to meet what you need in a draft slot, who is to say other teams aren't willing to outbid you to a ludicrous degree.

Rob Paxon is online now  
Old
06-04-2013, 08:15 AM
  #92
SabresAreScaryGood
McDavid 2015!!!
 
SabresAreScaryGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 3,748
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
I think it'd take significantly different deals for each slot. Each slot has different value, each team has different roster+organizational needs, and each team will have a different draft board. So the tricky part is finding a team that is willing to move down due to its draft board + organizational needs while desiring what we're willing to part with. Then, will that team be in a slot where it's worth overpaying to get the guy high up on OUR draft board (Drouin, Barkov, whoever it is in the Sabres' eyes)? If not the Sabres may not be willing to meet the price.

I'm all in favor for aggressively exploring many different trade-up scenarios, whether 5-7 to ensure we get at least one of the bigger guys, or into the top 4 to get a specific guy/one of the franchise guys. It's just that it's easier said than done. Once you find the team willing to trade and able to meet what you need in a draft slot, who is to say other teams aren't willing to outbid you to a ludicrous degree.
If I'm Nashville and I get offered Vanek at half his salary plus pick 8, I am seriously interested. Maybe add something else, but if I were a Nashville fan I would want this deal. Nashville would have to get a contract done with Vanek obviously, so that would be a pretty big obstacle.

As a Sabre fan i dont want this deal to be honest. I want Buffalo to sign Vanek, but Vanek may not want to re-sign. Buffalo needs to replace Vanek with an elite player.

I also dont think there is a team that can top what Buffalo has to give.

SabresAreScaryGood is offline  
Old
06-04-2013, 10:04 AM
  #93
AirBriere48
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 757
vCash: 2225
Button's list (June 4th):

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649

AirBriere48 is offline  
Old
06-04-2013, 10:43 AM
  #94
1972
Registered User
 
1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,010
vCash: 500
I would feel pretty ecstatic in adding a blue chip Dman this draft, Darnell Nurse at #8 is pretty attractive, even RR

With Myers/Pysyk in the fold for awhile, I would like to add a big mobile LH D, which is why I prefer the fit of Nurse.

It would be interesting to see how DR and company felt about the center crop they have, they may be directly looking to move up and get Drouin/Nichushkin if they think highly enough of Grigorenko/Hodgson/Girgensons/Larsson.


Last edited by 1972: 06-04-2013 at 10:54 AM.
1972 is offline  
Old
06-04-2013, 12:09 PM
  #95
WhoIsJimBob
Circle the Bandwagon
 
WhoIsJimBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 15,567
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrigsAndGirgs View Post
Not a fail, just means the teams in front of us weren't stupid and took the best players off the board.

Now, if one of those guys are on the board, and the Sabres instead reached for Zadorov or someone, then it would be a fail.
It's only a fail if 2013 is like 2003 and the Sabres end up like the Rangers.


WhoIsJimBob is offline  
Old
06-04-2013, 12:50 PM
  #96
MacOfNiagara
Blue&Gold from birth
 
MacOfNiagara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Niagara Falls
Country: United States
Posts: 2,698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
If I'm Nashville and I get offered Vanek at half his salary plus pick 8, I am seriously interested. Maybe add something else, but if I were a Nashville fan I would want this deal. Nashville would have to get a contract done with Vanek obviously, so that would be a pretty big obstacle.

As a Sabre fan i dont want this deal to be honest. I want Buffalo to sign Vanek, but Vanek may not want to re-sign. Buffalo needs to replace Vanek with an elite player.

I also dont think there is a team that can top what Buffalo has to give.
Similar to commentary made this AM on WGR. They suggested Miller + 8th to Florida for #2 pick.

Problem with that and your suggestion is that both Miller and Vanek are only signed for one year. So you are giving up 7 years of a potential franchise player for 1 year of an established star. This might make sense if you were Boston, Chicago, Pittsburgh, etc. But the top drafting teams are the worst teams in the league and are not likely to compete for the cup next year.

Very poor asset management IMO. 1 year of an established star player for a non contending team, versus 7 years of a potential franchise player for a rebuilding team.

The WGR scenario with Miller is made worse by the fact that not only are they not likely to contend for a cup next year, they also have one of the best young goalies in the league and therefore no need at all for Miller.

MacOfNiagara is offline  
Old
06-04-2013, 12:53 PM
  #97
MacOfNiagara
Blue&Gold from birth
 
MacOfNiagara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Niagara Falls
Country: United States
Posts: 2,698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBriere48 View Post
I like Nurse and RR, but I cannot imagine them passing on Lindholm if he is there at #8.


Last edited by MacOfNiagara: 06-04-2013 at 12:53 PM. Reason: typo
MacOfNiagara is offline  
Old
06-04-2013, 01:05 PM
  #98
WhoIsJimBob
Circle the Bandwagon
 
WhoIsJimBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 15,567
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
The way I look at it is the Sabres are in a position not many teams ever are in, they are willing to go through a long rebuild and have many assets to deal.

I just cant believe a team picking 4-7 would turn down a deal that includes Vanek. The Sabres could even pay half his salary I believe, maybe I am wrong.

Plus we have these picks to sweeten any deal including Vanek. We may not be able to get up into the top 3, but starting at 4 it seems reasonable knowing what we have to deal.
I can.

The only way I can see Nashville passing on one of the top 4 guys is IF they can get a handshake deal with Vanek on an extension.

But, I don't even know if they want to go there.

I don't know if Carolina could really afford to sign Vanek to an extension.

And will Vanek sign an extension with Edmonton or Calgary?

I don't see any of those teams really wanting Vanek for a one year run unless they think they can get a mint deal at the deadline.

WhoIsJimBob is offline  
Old
06-04-2013, 01:06 PM
  #99
McTankel
HFBoards Sponsor
 
McTankel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Hamburg, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,815
vCash: 500
Craig Button final draft rankings:

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649

McTankel is online now  
Old
06-04-2013, 01:07 PM
  #100
McTankel
HFBoards Sponsor
 
McTankel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Hamburg, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,815
vCash: 500
Hockey Prospectus Final Draft Rankings:

http://www.hockeyprospect.com/2013-n...prospects-list

McTankel is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:41 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.