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Draft Thread Part 2: Bark to the Future

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Old
06-04-2013, 08:28 PM
  #476
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Originally Posted by Smashville615 View Post
Kind of hard to hear sound through a message board. You must be one special individual.

I'm good I've got a great job with wonderful benefits and a lot of freedom.
just fyi a lot of us on here know each other in the real world and none of us would be silly enough to claim to have some occupation we dont actually have (or maybe you dont believe Im a surgeon)

but enough of the penis measuring... I think anyone who worries about "the russian factor" has a legit concern... it would one thing of the russian was the only superstar in the draft and our options were either take a possible problem child or take a less talented player... then you have to rerally think it over... but if we have a choice between the possible Russian headcase or an equally talented but potentially less volatile player then its hard to fault poile for taking a safer pick with almost equal talent

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06-04-2013, 08:30 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by oreilly22 View Post
Can't we all just get along? All of us want the Preds to pick the best player for this team. Some have different opinions who that is, but I think we can trust our scouting staff to choose the right player. The anticipation is palpable, but when the time comes, I hope we all rally around the player that we choose.

Like has been said many times before, with this draft in the position that we're in right now, we really can't go wrong. I hate seeing us fight like this. We should be brothers and sisters in arms and save our bashing for fans of other teams
Ahh this is like a bar conversation, if we're not joking on each other we're doing it wrong. No hard feelings here...

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06-04-2013, 08:31 PM
  #478
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LOL Wel cupcake I made million dollar decisions for many years both in the civilian world and in the military.

There is no guarntee either of these players make it in the NHL. Like it or not the primere hockey league in the world. And men in the NHL are just a little different than who Barkov has played against or they would have been i the NHL. Now granted he did have some time earlier this season during the lockout.

If I were DP and had the value of this pick I would look to trade it for a proven NHL player. Want to talk about risk. How about picking Barkov and he turns out to be David Legwand, or worse and Druion turns out so be a Stamkos and he could have had either????? No matter what comes of this pick there will be a segment not satisfied. With Nich and Barkov none of these have seen them play high caliber players. And the few on these boards that have would proclaim they are then next Gretsky even if they were the same caliber as Vern Fiddler. 26 days and many will be all giggly if Barkov is selected the rest of us will be waiting until this time next year or two years from now before we make up our minds. Even if Barkov falls on his arse he wll still have supporters here.
Yes they are all a risk but you know what when some kid who has yet to piss on an NHL rink makes it public that he refuses to play in the AHL and that he will not do draft workout because he has nothing else to prove. What do you think a person with an attitide like that is going to do when he has to deal with Trotz and the way he works?

Sorry but i am not going to use my #4 pick and millions of dollars on that crap.
Thousands of kids would do whatever it takes to make an NHL team and stay in the NHL. I would rather have that guy hands down.

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06-04-2013, 08:37 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by Smashville615 View Post
Yes they are all a risk but you know what when some kid who has yet to piss on an NHL rink makes it public that he refuses to play in the AHL and that he will not do draft workout because he has nothing else to prove. What do you think a person with an attitide like that is going to do when he has to deal with Trotz and the way he works?

Sorry but i am not going to use my #4 pick and millions of dollars on that crap.
Thousands of kids would do whatever it takes to make an NHL team and stay in the NHL. I would rather have that guy hands down.
Honestly, though, think about this.

He comes here after making good money in the KHL and gets sent down to the AHL where he's not making much money. He gets hurt, and is out for the year. Comes back the next year and the injury slows him a bit, maybe it's a ACL injury that takes awhile to recover, he's back in the AHL, then he gets another injury in the AHL and he's out a full year, after that he's labeled injury prone and his entry level deal is up. His value is obvioulsy much lower now, and his career potential looks bleak. If only he had stayed in the KHL, he might have had more money to get him through if hockey doesn't work out.

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06-04-2013, 08:39 PM
  #480
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Ahh this is like a bar conversation, if we're not joking on each other we're doing it wrong. No hard feelings here...
Absolutely just difference in opinion. If you agree on everything it makes rhe fan base weak and yes men and women. It's nice to have an active Preds board in June!

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06-04-2013, 08:42 PM
  #481
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Honestly, though, think about this.

He comes here after making good money in the KHL and gets sent down to the AHL where he's not making much money. He gets hurt, and is out for the year. Comes back the next year and the injury slows him a bit, maybe it's a ACL injury that takes awhile to recover, he's back in the AHL, then he gets another injury in the AHL and he's out a full year, after that he's labeled injury prone and his entry level deal is up. His value is obvioulsy much lower now, and his career potential looks bleak. If only he had stayed in the KHL, he might have had more money to get him through if hockey doesn't work out.
You take that risk coming to the NHL. If it's all about money i don't have any need for him. If it's about wanting to be the best and playing the best and doing whatever it takes to get there then you got a spot on my team.

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06-04-2013, 09:52 PM
  #482
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Originally Posted by Smashville615 View Post
You take that risk coming to the NHL. If it's all about money i don't have any need for him. If it's about wanting to be the best and playing the best and doing whatever it takes to get there then you got a spot on my team.
I am sure it's not all about the money, but you're kidding yourself if you think most NHLers don't use money as their biggest driving factor.

It's about ego, and nothing feeds egos like greenbacks.

Fans get caught up in the "love of the game stuff" way more than the players do.

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06-04-2013, 09:57 PM
  #483
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Lots of other Europeans come over here to North America and earn a roster spot, and do play in the ahl to get to the NHL. I just don't know how many have done this that have played in the khl.

I am assuming you make more money in khl than FEL or SEL for example.

I noticed lot of other top prospects also didnt do anything at the combine. I am assuming this is because they had just finished memorial cup, when was nichushkin done playing? Was it also very recent?

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06-05-2013, 01:41 AM
  #484
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Lots of other Europeans come over here to North America and earn a roster spot, and do play in the ahl to get to the NHL. I just don't know how many have done this that have played in the khl.

I am assuming you make more money in khl than FEL or SEL for example.

I noticed lot of other top prospects also didnt do anything at the combine. I am assuming this is because they had just finished memorial cup, when was nichushkin done playing? Was it also very recent?
One of the FEL players Sami Vatanen did make substantially more money in FEL than he does in AHL. On top of that he would have got a well over million dollars in KHL (1st overall KHL draft pick 2010). But he chose AHL and Norfolk. I think I couldn't have done that choice when I was at that age. Vatanen is Finnish so he would have had to move to Russia play in KHL. And if his dream is NHL he would have to move again so going straight to NA was maybe the easier route. Russians can stay in their home country with their families and friends and get that kind of money. I think it's kind of obvious they don't choose the AHL route with one tenth of the KHL salary.

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06-05-2013, 06:22 AM
  #485
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How many elite players though, play in the AHL? Chances are if he had to go to the AHL, he's probably not the player we were hoping for anyway.

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06-05-2013, 06:38 AM
  #486
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How many elite players though, play in the AHL? Chances are if he had to go to the AHL, he's probably not the player we were hoping for anyway.
That's a good point. A draft loaded at the top this year should see the top 5 play right away.

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06-05-2013, 07:22 AM
  #487
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I should say elite forwards, lots of defensemen spend time in the AHL

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06-05-2013, 07:56 AM
  #488
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How many elite players though, play in the AHL? Chances are if he had to go to the AHL, he's probably not the player we were hoping for anyway.
Playing in the AHL for years is not the issue. I think we understand your point. Again no one has answered what happens if he needs time to help recover from an injury or it turns out he is not ready for the NHL and needs some work. He is scratched because we have no choice. Is he going to run to KHL because of this? Is he going to run to the KHL when he does not agree
with Trotz system? Is he going to run to the KHL when he is not playing a top line? Are you going to invest millions of dollars and your first top 5 pick in years on a guy who is saying what he is or isn't going to do before he is even drafted?

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06-05-2013, 09:10 AM
  #489
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If he has a valid NHL contract, he can't just run to the KHL anymore, there wasn't an agreement before, there is now.

And do you know Barkov is willing to play in the AHL?

I didn't say years, I said elite forwards generally do not play in the AHL period. Kane, Toews, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, etc, none of those guys were AHL players, ever. Look through the top scorers in the league to see if they played in the AHL.

If you draft MacKinnon or Druion, they cannot play in the AHL next year, if their not in the NHL they have to be returned to their junior team. Does that stop you from drafting them? Or is it just because the KHL is overseas?

Again, I have no problem with a guy saying he doesn't want to play in a lesser league than he plays in now and the AHL is a lesser league than the KHL.

Is it really the AHL or the arrogance that you have a problem with?

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06-05-2013, 09:11 AM
  #490
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Originally Posted by Smashville615 View Post
Playing in the AHL for years is not the issue. I think we understand your point. Again no one has answered what happens if he needs time to help recover from an injury or it turns out he is not ready for the NHL and needs some work. He is scratched because we have no choice. Is he going to run to KHL because of this? Is he going to run to the KHL when he does not agree
with Trotz system? Is he going to run to the KHL when he is not playing a top line? Are you going to invest millions of dollars and your first top 5 pick in years on a guy who is saying what he is or isn't going to do before he is even drafted?
What happens,

Just like any other player drafted they would be sent to the AHL. That makes no difference if there from Moscow Russia or Moscow Tennessee. There is no sure thing when it comes to young players. But DP must consider all players available. Its all a crap shoot just like anything else. There could be a thousand reasons any player could fail or leave the team. And money is a primary one See Suter, Ryan. Noiw some will say ohhh he just wanted to be close to home and they may have played some into it but if say Philly had offered a million more a year over the same contract Im betting he would have been playing with Kimmo.

We can only pontificate about what DP will do and some things that seem clear to us are non starters. We all want whats best for this team.

For me this pick could go either way if BArkov is the guy and it turns out he is all that's reported, Great. But I would have to listen to other offers. One situation that has come up recently is Malkin there have been reports he wants to be a 1C and knows he can't behind Crosby. This is the same situation we picked up Arnott. Now his salary is disgusting but the guy is the real thing. I think the Preds would be a good fit on a couple levels. He would be the 1c no doubt, he would be the biggest offensive fish in our pond, he also wants to play on a team that can compete for the cup. With the number of young forwards coming up Borque, Wilson, Forsberg, Beck, and a few others that may be able to step up in a couple years the cap should be doable with there relative low salary. DP and Shero have a long history and a deal could be madeto satisfy both teams and Malkin could be knee deep in the conversation and a extension worked out before the trade is made. There are other centers that could be had in a similar deal and the pick could supply a NHL ready 1c now rather than taking a chance on a 17 year old, see Legwand, David.

What will happen in reality June 30 comes DP takes the best player available and Nich is in the wheelhouse as well. A big chance but its just a rookie player.

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06-05-2013, 09:37 AM
  #491
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All of this is good June fun.

Seems to me that this is settling out into three possible scenarios for the Preds. (In order of probability).

1. Draft is very predictable - everybody stays in place - Preds take Barkov.

2. Jones slips. Not that he isn't a great prospect and #1 on many rating sheets - but he is a D-Man in a draft year with good offensive prospects. Colorado takes MacKinnon. Florida takes Droiun. Bolts look hard, ponder ---- and take Barkov. Preds take Jones or trade down to Buffalo or Carolina - both of whom would covet a big #1 D-man - and take either Lindholm or Nicushkin - picking up an extra second in the process (as part of the trade).

3. Colorado really covets Barkov. (As has been speculated) swaps picks with Preds - who take MacKinnon (don't get cute here). Preds also have to give up Smith and Blum (not Ellis - thats Housley's project guy) but maybe get a 4th or fifth back.

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06-05-2013, 09:42 AM
  #492
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What happens,

Just like any other player drafted they would be sent to the AHL. That makes no difference if there from Moscow Russia or Moscow Tennessee. There is no sure thing when it comes to young players. But DP must consider all players available. Its all a crap shoot just like anything else. There could be a thousand reasons any player could fail or leave the team. And money is a primary one See Suter, Ryan. Noiw some will say ohhh he just wanted to be close to home and they may have played some into it but if say Philly had offered a million more a year over the same contract Im betting he would have been playing with Kimmo.

We can only pontificate about what DP will do and some things that seem clear to us are non starters. We all want whats best for this team.

For me this pick could go either way if Barkov is the guy and it turns out he is all that's reported, Great. But I would have to listen to other offers. One situation that has come up recently is Malkin there have been reports he wants to be a 1C and knows he can't behind Crosby. This is the same situation we picked up Arnott. Now his salary is disgusting but the guy is the real thing. I think the Preds would be a good fit on a couple levels. He would be the 1c no doubt, he would be the biggest offensive fish in our pond, he also wants to play on a team that can compete for the cup. With the number of young forwards coming up Borque, Wilson, Forsberg, Beck, and a few others that may be able to step up in a couple years the cap should be doable with there relative low salary. DP and Shero have a long history and a deal could be made to satisfy both teams and Malkin could be knee deep in the conversation and a extension worked out before the trade is made. There are other centers that could be had in a similar deal and the pick could supply a NHL ready 1c now rather than taking a chance on a 17 year old, see Legwand, David.

What will happen in reality June 30 comes DP takes the best player available and Nich is in the wheelhouse as well. A big chance but its just a rookie player.

Exactly, I'm sure that DP and his staff has Plans A thru 'ZZ(ie)' in place for multiple scenarios depending who is on the board and which GM calls or they call.

I remember lots of speculation about the Isles trading the top overall pick (Tavares) which I'm certain after their brief playoff run this year that they feel better keeping the pick. Tighten up their defense and solidify their goal tending and they will be a beast in the east again quickly.

I would gander the cost to get for example a Malkin at the draft if the Pen's are emotionally tied to a certain prospect would be easier to swallow than now. That said for a known quantity, the possibilities for an unknown, but highly touted, kid in the draft can be pretty intoxicating as well. Let's just see who gets drunk on possibilities enough to make a trade. Either way, I'm fine with any of the top 4 (Jones, Mac, Drouin, Barkov) based on what I've seen; but would really look to move the pick if we have a shot at Jones because I just think he'd bring the most in return for his skillset from a team like the Isles or the Oilers perhaps. I'm more of the opinion we'll see Barkov or Nich as the top players available when our turn comes up; but we'll have to see what reality brings us...

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06-05-2013, 09:46 AM
  #493
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All of this is good June fun.

Seems to me that this is settling out into three possible scenarios for the Preds. (In order of probability).

1. Draft is very predictable - everybody stays in place - Preds take Barkov.

2. Jones slips. Not that he isn't a great prospect and #1 on many rating sheets - but he is a D-Man in a draft year with good offensive prospects. Colorado takes MacKinnon. Florida takes Droiun. Bolts look hard, ponder ---- and take Barkov. Preds take Jones or trade down to Buffalo or Carolina - both of whom would covet a big #1 D-man - and take either Lindholm or Nicushkin - picking up an extra second in the process (as part of the trade).

3. Colorado really covets Barkov. (As has been speculated) swaps picks with Preds - who take MacKinnon (don't get cute here). Preds also have to give up Smith and Blum (not Ellis - thats Housley's project guy) but maybe get a 4th or fifth back.
All three are spot on, my preference of those is 3 followed by 2 but 1 is probably what happens.

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06-05-2013, 09:54 AM
  #494
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All three are spot on, my preference of those is 3 followed by 2 but 1 is probably what happens.
If Colorado is actually willing to trade the top pick I will be hugely disappointed if Poile doesnt make a serious offer, even if we have to add another pick to #4 + Smith and Blum.

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06-05-2013, 10:12 AM
  #495
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If Colorado is actually willing to trade the top pick I will be hugely disappointed if Poile doesnt make a serious offer, even if we have to add another pick to #4 + Smith and Blum.
Same here. MacK is the ultimate prize for the preds in this draft plus the huge pr boost that would come from picking first overall.

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06-05-2013, 10:29 AM
  #496
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Yeah that's...not an attractive offer for Colorado...

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06-05-2013, 10:53 AM
  #497
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Yeah that's...not an attractive offer for Colorado...
Then do #4 Smith, Blum and one of either Legwand, Hellberg, or 2nd round pick in 2014.

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06-05-2013, 11:02 AM
  #498
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Yeah that's...not an attractive offer for Colorado...
Seriously?
Barkov, smith and Blum for mackinnon?!

As a preds fan I almost don't want to do it. Barkov is such a gem from what I keep hearing, everyone raves about the kid!

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06-05-2013, 11:09 AM
  #499
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Seriously?
Barkov, smith and Blum for mackinnon?!

As a preds fan I almost don't want to do it. Barkov is such a gem from what I keep hearing, everyone raves about the kid!
It's the number 4 for the number one, a struggling F that is coming off about the worst season I can remember a player having and is overpaid starting now, and a borderline bust third pairing defenseman.

That's a slim package to drop from what's considered the "elite" tier (top three) of this draft to the "very good" tier at 4-6.

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06-05-2013, 11:16 AM
  #500
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everyone being afraid of the "Russian Factor" because of Radulov, or the guy playing in the KHL for a few years before coming over. What about Datsyuk? he played in the RSL 2 years before coming over. Maybe some guys need a little seasoning.

and if we plan to have Forsberg in our lineup, we probably do not need another rookie there as well or we weill be picking top 5 next year too

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