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Draft Thread Part 2: Bark to the Future

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Old
06-05-2013, 11:17 AM
  #501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
everyone being afraid of the "Russian Factor" because of Radulov, or the guy playing in the KHL for a few years before coming over. What about Datsyuk? he played in the RSL 2 years before coming over. Maybe some guys need a little seasoning.

and if we plan to have Forsberg in our lineup, we probably do not need another rookie there as well or we weill be picking top 5 next year too
There's a definite stereotype. No one in this thread knows Nicushkin, but there's already an assumed primadonna attitude,a need for glamor\prestige, a flight risk, and an aversion to defense?

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06-05-2013, 11:19 AM
  #502
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Seriously?
Barkov, smith and Blum for mackinnon?!

As a preds fan I almost don't want to do it. Barkov is such a gem from what I keep hearing, everyone raves about the kid!
if he's that great Colorado takes him at 1 and we get whoever we get. You dont get the #1 pick for cheap

Quote:
Originally Posted by OurGocIsAnAwesomeGoc View Post
It's the number 4 for the number one, a struggling F that is coming off about the worst season I can remember a player having and is overpaid starting now, and a borderline bust third pairing defenseman.

That's a slim package to drop from what's considered the "elite" tier (top three) of this draft to the "very good" tier at 4-6.

OK, what about Bourque + Ekholm + 4?

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06-05-2013, 11:23 AM
  #503
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If im gonna be disappointed in a young player I would prefer to be disappointed in the top pick in the draft, knowing he was the best prospect. We have no assurance any player in this or any other draft will be golden. There is as much hype as can be imagined on all of them. Barkov or Mac could be Thornton or Crosby or the could be Tebow.

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06-05-2013, 11:27 AM
  #504
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
everyone being afraid of the "Russian Factor" because of Radulov, or the guy playing in the KHL for a few years before coming over. What about Datsyuk? he played in the RSL 2 years before coming over. Maybe some guys need a little seasoning.

and if we plan to have Forsberg in our lineup, we probably do not need another rookie there as well or we weill be picking top 5 next year too


+1

I agree

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06-05-2013, 01:20 PM
  #505
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and if we plan to have Forsberg in our lineup, we probably do not need another rookie there as well or we weill be picking top 5 next year too
Heck, if we play our #4 and FF all year and we end up with a top 5 again I'll be fine with that, assuming our #4 is working out closer to Vinny than Leggy.

I know none of us want to go thru another year like this one, but.... Chicago, Pitts - been legit cup contenders how many times in the past 5 years?

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06-05-2013, 01:24 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by deanwormer View Post
Heck, if we play our #4 and FF all year and we end up with a top 5 again I'll be fine with that, assuming our #4 is working out closer to Vinny than Leggy.

I know none of us want to go thru another year like this one, but.... Chicago, Pitts - been legit cup contenders how many times in the past 5 years?
I remember Colorado having Chris drury and Milan hejduk both as rookies one season and won a cup with two rookies.

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06-05-2013, 01:25 PM
  #507
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I don't necessarily agree that playing two highly-skilled young forwards would be a recipe for failure. Especially when you consider the production of the players they may be displacing.

Forsberg and...whomever...are skilled in a way we've never had before. The learning curve should be relatively small.

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06-05-2013, 01:48 PM
  #508
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
If he has a valid NHL contract, he can't just run to the KHL anymore, there wasn't an agreement before, there is now.

And do you know Barkov is willing to play in the AHL?

I didn't say years, I said elite forwards generally do not play in the AHL period. Kane, Toews, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, etc, none of those guys were AHL players, ever. Look through the top scorers in the league to see if they played in the AHL.

If you draft MacKinnon or Druion, they cannot play in the AHL next year, if their not in the NHL they have to be returned to their junior team. Does that stop you from drafting them? Or is it just because the KHL is overseas?

Again, I have no problem with a guy saying he doesn't want to play in a lesser league than he plays in now and the AHL is a lesser league than the KHL.

Is it really the AHL or the arrogance that you have a problem with?
It's the attitude and writing on the wall that screams problem. Especially on a team like the Preds.

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06-05-2013, 01:55 PM
  #509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Seriously?
Barkov, smith and Blum for mackinnon?!

As a preds fan I almost don't want to do it. Barkov is such a gem from what I keep hearing, everyone raves about the kid!
Barkov is not the prospect that MacK is. Now, he could wind up being better, of course, but that's true of Drouin, Nitch, Lindholm and others.... As it stands now, MacK is the best forward prospect in the draft and clearly the best center prospect in the draft. Whatever raving you hear about Barkov falls short of the raves about MacK.

If your argument is that they are close enough that it isn't worth giving up Blum and Smith, I can understand that but disagree (in part because Blum/Smith are expendable assets). I have no idea what type of package it would take to move to #1and whether it is worth it but the opportunity to draft first and take MacK should be explored strongly and seriously if it is even remotely possible to pull it off.

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06-05-2013, 02:08 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by braindead View Post
Barkov is not the prospect that MacK is. Now, he could wind up being better, of course, but that's true of Drouin, Nitch, Lindholm and others.... As it stands now, MacK is the best forward prospect in the draft and clearly the best center prospect in the draft. Whatever raving you hear about Barkov falls short of the raves about MacK.

If your argument is that they are close enough that it isn't worth giving up Blum and Smith, I can understand that but disagree (in part because Blum/Smith are expendable assets). I have no idea what type of package it would take to move to #1and whether it is worth it but the opportunity to draft first and take MacK should be explored strongly and seriously if it is even remotely possible to pull it off.
That really depends who you listen to. The top four forwards are shuffled on the various lists .... Droin, not Mac, was the CHL player of the year .... and now each player has his various camp of ardent fans who rant why they should be above another. Luckily these decisions are made by people who watch the players, not youtube highlight reels and actually interview them.

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06-05-2013, 02:25 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
That really depends who you listen to. The top four forwards are shuffled on the various lists .... Droin, not Mac, was the CHL player of the year .... and now each player has his various camp of ardent fans who rant why they should be above another. Luckily these decisions are made by people who watch the players, not youtube highlight reels and actually interview them.
Preach on my brother.....

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06-05-2013, 02:25 PM
  #512
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It is about environment. If you bring rookies into a terrible environment, they are more likely to fail or find inconsistent individual success. Whereas, if you bring them into a sound environment, they can be placed into a roll where they succeed annually. Take for example Big Ben and Joe Flacco in the NFL - great teams, great environments, were able to led a team as rookies to playoff success as Qbs. The same applies in hockey. Rookies on this team would have a highly successful coaching staff, a room full of leaders, and several superstars to boot. This is a great organization from top to bottom. I wouldn't necessarily expect huge individual success, but I would expect them to fit in to the team concept.

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06-05-2013, 02:26 PM
  #513
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I agree Enoch.

I do think those thinking FF and our draft pick are going to come in and play top minutes don't follow Trotz much.

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06-05-2013, 02:48 PM
  #514
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Originally Posted by deanwormer View Post
Heck, if we play our #4 and FF all year and we end up with a top 5 again I'll be fine with that, assuming our #4 is working out closer to Vinny than Leggy.

I know none of us want to go thru another year like this one, but.... Chicago, Pitts - been legit cup contenders how many times in the past 5 years?
Difference between us and Pittsburgh and Chicago was Pittsburgh and Chicago had NOTHING when they drafted MAF, Malkin, Crosby, Staal or Kane/Toews.

Rinne and Weber are 2 blocks that put us well ahead of where they were. And Nashville has been every part cup contender as they have up until this year over that 4-5 year span without having to draft high.

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06-05-2013, 02:59 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
There is as much hype as can be imagined on all of them. Barkov or Mac could be Thornton or Crosby or the could be Tebow.


While I agree in premise..any player could bust. The Tebow analogy isn't a very good one.

Tebow never had the skills or ability to translate to the NFL, and most believed he wouldn't.

These are guys that everyone agrees have the ability and skills to succeed, and they are unanimous elite propects. We can't overthink this or get greedy. Draft the best player at our pick and continue to build through the remainder of the draft and FA.

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06-05-2013, 03:11 PM
  #516
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If we could move up to number one and MacKinnon -for a price of number four and Blum and Smith- I would do it - BPA. I think MacKinnon's performance in the Memorial Cup has separated him from Jones and Droiun ('think' because I really don't KNOW *****). OTOH, I worry that young, dynamic offensive talent plugged/hammered/smelted into Trotz' system will not give the Preds as much bang for the buck as it would Pitt or Chicago or Detroit.

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06-05-2013, 03:30 PM
  #517
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I just can't see us not drafting barkov, unless we move up for mackinnon.

Only thing that worries me with Mack is he is used to playing with a superstar winger in drouin, I guess he would forsberg here?!

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06-05-2013, 03:34 PM
  #518
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
I just can't see us not drafting barkov, unless we move up for mackinnon.

Only thing that worries me with Mack is he is used to playing with a superstar winger in drouin, I guess he would forsberg here?!
and Wilson who was our best forward last year. If teams are worried about stopping Mac + Forsberg or Barkov + Forsberg, think about the space that opens up for Wilson. Even if we somehow wound up with Lindholm, pairing any of those center with Wilson and Forsberg should be the best offensive line the Preds have ever had.

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06-05-2013, 05:33 PM
  #519
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and Wilson who was our best forward last year. If teams are worried about stopping Mac + Forsberg or Barkov + Forsberg, think about the space that opens up for Wilson. Even if we somehow wound up with Lindholm, pairing any of those center with Wilson and Forsberg should be the best offensive line the Preds have ever had.
They will have to be pretty dang good to be better than Sullivan/Arnott/Kariya in their prime

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06-05-2013, 05:44 PM
  #520
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They will have to be pretty dang good to be better than Sullivan/Arnott/Kariya in their prime
Those three weren't a line and if they were, it wasn't for very long. Lines were usually 9/10/11 and Arnott/Dumont/Sullivan.

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06-05-2013, 06:17 PM
  #521
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
That really depends who you listen to. The top four forwards are shuffled on the various lists .... Droin, not Mac, was the CHL player of the year .... and now each player has his various camp of ardent fans who rant why they should be above another.

As between MacK and Barkov though, I can't recall any reputable source that ranks Barkov higher than MacK. There have been a few feints and hints that the Avs might like Barkov but nothing to suggest he is #1. To my knowledge only Jones, MacK and to a less extent Drouin have been listed by anyone as BPA.

Not saying that a team might privately rank them differently or that the ranking prove to be wrong eventually but if you had to hazard a guess, the Preds (and most or all of the teams) rank MacK above Barkov.

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06-05-2013, 06:25 PM
  #522
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
I just can't see us not drafting barkov, unless we move up for mackinnon.
Unless he's taken before our pick. If other scouts feel the same way about Barkov as you, he'd be first overall.

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06-05-2013, 06:43 PM
  #523
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They will have to be pretty dang good to be better than Sullivan/Arnott/Kariya in their prime
Arnott and Kariya were never in their prime with the Predators, were never considered a threat in the league and never led the team out of the first round... we like to reflect on those seasons like they were something truly special, and while the team's point total in the regular season was really good, they still weren't anything special compared to the true superstars and contenders of the league.

Really not trying to poo-poo on that era, those were some good times for the Predators. But the future is much brighter and one day we'll see the post-lockout seasons for what they were. Really nice seasons that provided that step up from being just an expansion team to finally being taken serious.

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06-05-2013, 07:12 PM
  #524
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Have to agree that Blum/Ellis/Smith is not enough to move up from #4 to #1. It's gonna take something of actual value, not throw away project players.

I think they'd ask for something like Forsberg/Bourque/Wilson. I'd have to think long and hard about it. I feel much more confident in Mack than Barkov (that's not a slight against Barkov though).

Ultimately, they're gonna just take Jones. It makes too much sense. If they do trade down, it will be with Florida or Tampa, not us.

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06-05-2013, 07:49 PM
  #525
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Have to agree that Blum/Ellis/Smith is not enough to move up from #4 to #1. It's gonna take something of actual value, not throw away project players.

I think they'd ask for something like Forsberg/Bourque/Wilson. I'd have to think long and hard about it. I feel much more confident in Mack than Barkov (that's not a slight against Barkov though).

Ultimately, they're gonna just take Jones. It makes too much sense. If they do trade down, it will be with Florida or Tampa, not us.

Sure, throw bourque in. In a heartbeat! Smith has more value than him IMO anyways, it's a win-win.

If bourque gets us first overall, we would be crazy not to. The guy is at best a third liner.

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