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2013-14 Flyers Overhaul Part II

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Old
06-05-2013, 09:02 AM
  #251
flyersfan187
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Luongo would be great to have, but I don't want to see them break the bank for a goalie again. There are only a couple goalies in the league that I would give a lot of money. A good team in front of a goalie can make the goalie look better than what he is.

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06-05-2013, 10:47 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
Luongo would be great to have, but I don't want to see them break the bank for a goalie again. There are only a couple goalies in the league that I would give a lot of money. A good team in front of a goalie can make the goalie look better than what he is.
I think the only way they would acquire Luongo is if he was bought-out. I don't see them taking on that crazy contract right after getting rid of Bryz.

If Luongo was to get bought-out I don't think terms or money would be a problem on his new contract considering he would still be getting paid a ton from Vancouver and he probably wouldn't want to go through that situation again of having a horrible contract.

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06-05-2013, 11:19 AM
  #253
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I am not interested in that Luongo contract at all. If he is bought out I am interested. if he isnt? pass.

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06-05-2013, 01:39 PM
  #254
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How about this for an offseason:
Buyout Briere and Bryz
Trade Mez for a 3rd round pick
Sign Thomas to $2 mill 1 year deal
Trade Couts + our 2nd for Goligoski and Dal 1st(#10)
Trade our 1st(#11) pick to Chicado for Leddy + Chicago's 1st
Sign Gordon are FO and 4th line defensive duties.

Kimmo Schenn
Coburn Leddy
Goligoski Grossmann
Gus-we all know we will have 1 D-man hurt at all times so he will be playing.

on F...we lose our 3rd line C and add Gordon. Couts points are replaced by Leddy and Goligoski + his replacement...Laughton maybe.

At draft...we draft Risto + Morin...or anyone else who falls that we like.

This would change our D to much better puck movers than currently and Kimmo can play less minutes by reducing PP or PK time.

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06-05-2013, 03:25 PM
  #255
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I really don't understand everyone's hurry to trade Couts. I really want to keep him, before we got Luke I would have traded Brayden over Couts. I know we need an offensive d-man, and thats a huge need we need to fill. But getting rid of Couts also puts another huge hole in our roster because we don't have another center of his calibre to play in a shutdown role.

If anything, I'm happy moving forward with:

Kimmo - Schenn
Coburn - Gus
Mesz - Grossmann

It's not the greatest defense, but it's passable. If we can I'd move Laughton + Read, maybe some picks, for someone like Edler or Goligoski. However it might be best to kick the tires and try something like that after Kimmo retires and we can get Read signed.

As good as Laughton looked this year I don't think he has the chops to replace Couts.

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06-05-2013, 03:42 PM
  #256
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I've thought for awhile that keeping Bryz for an extra year before a buyout to give him another chance was a good idea, but I'm starting to lean towards buying him out now for a few reasons (I know this may be repetitive):

1. He's lost the coach's confidence
2. He's lost the team's confidence
3. He's lost the organization's confidence (see Snider)
4. He doesn't seem to give a **** what happens to him or the team (I don't know how you make it to the NHL having an attitude like he does)
5. He seems like he'd be an awful mentor to Mason because of his attitude and the culture disconnect (sorry to pull the Russian card, but that seems like it could be a factor)
6. It's evident at this point that Bryz was a systems goalie who relies on a defensive system like the Coyotes had to excel. Keeping Lavi means he still won't fit in.

Given all this, I dont think it's very likely he has a rebound season and the fact that our defense and systems will remain relatively the same, what with not many options defense-wise and keeping Lavi. What I'd like to do is bite the bullet and buy him out now, and get Thomas in here instead for these reasons:

1. Most importantly, the guy just won a Conn Smythe. He's good enough. Also he's been staying in shape during his off year.
2. He wants to play for the Flyers, and has the extra motivation to make his case for the Olympics.
3. He's a competitor and would make a much better mentor to Mason.
4. Lower cap hit might allow us to pursue someone like Streit.
5. I'll state it again: Attitude. He has the right one, Bryz does not. This means the world for a team game.

Agree, disagree, thoughts?

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06-05-2013, 03:51 PM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinds View Post
I really don't understand everyone's hurry to trade Couts. I really want to keep him, before we got Luke I would have traded Brayden over Couts. I know we need an offensive d-man, and thats a huge need we need to fill. But getting rid of Couts also puts another huge hole in our roster because we don't have another center of his calibre to play in a shutdown role.

If anything, I'm happy moving forward with:

Kimmo - Schenn
Coburn - Gus
Mesz - Grossmann

It's not the greatest defense, but it's passable. If we can I'd move Laughton + Read, maybe some picks, for someone like Edler or Goligoski. However it might be best to kick the tires and try something like that after Kimmo retires and we can get Read signed.

As good as Laughton looked this year I don't think he has the chops to replace Couts.
Agree. Moving Couturier would make this team's overall defense worse. Laughton may be good defensively but I don't see him coming in and shutting down superstars like Kovalchuk, Malkin, Nash ect.

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06-05-2013, 04:35 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by blinds View Post
I've thought for awhile that keeping Bryz for an extra year before a buyout to give him another chance was a good idea, but I'm starting to lean towards buying him out now for a few reasons (I know this may be repetitive):

1. He's lost the coach's confidence
2. He's lost the team's confidence
3. He's lost the organization's confidence (see Snider)
4. He doesn't seem to give a **** what happens to him or the team (I don't know how you make it to the NHL having an attitude like he does)
5. He seems like he'd be an awful mentor to Mason because of his attitude and the culture disconnect (sorry to pull the Russian card, but that seems like it could be a factor)
6. It's evident at this point that Bryz was a systems goalie who relies on a defensive system like the Coyotes had to excel. Keeping Lavi means he still won't fit in.

Given all this, I dont think it's very likely he has a rebound season and the fact that our defense and systems will remain relatively the same, what with not many options defense-wise and keeping Lavi. What I'd like to do is bite the bullet and buy him out now, and get Thomas in here instead for these reasons:

1. Most importantly, the guy just won a Conn Smythe. He's good enough. Also he's been staying in shape during his off year.
2. He wants to play for the Flyers, and has the extra motivation to make his case for the Olympics.
3. He's a competitor and would make a much better mentor to Mason.
4. Lower cap hit might allow us to pursue someone like Streit.
5. I'll state it again: Attitude. He has the right one, Bryz does not. This means the world for a team game.

Agree, disagree, thoughts?
Why not hire a coach who employs a defensive system to get the most out of Bryzgalov? If Bryz is a system goalie, then lets run that system.

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06-05-2013, 04:41 PM
  #259
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You risk the offensive growth of younger players if you do. Give and take.

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06-05-2013, 04:42 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Why not hire a coach who employs a defensive system to get the most out of Bryzgalov? If Bryz is a system goalie, then lets run that system.
If you are going to do that then you go with a cheaper option in goal. Having a goalie with a cap hit of 5.6 mil that needs to be sheltered in a system is rediculous.

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06-05-2013, 04:44 PM
  #261
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You risk the offensive growth of younger players if you do. Give and take.
Championships are won from the net out.

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06-05-2013, 04:45 PM
  #262
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Championships are won from the net out.
Then we definitely need a better goalie. Then we won't have to squander the strengths of the forward corps (speedy forechecking...not playing a defense-first system) so they can babysit a crap goalie who'll probably let in goals anyways while carrying a large cap hit.

They spent a few games after the 5 day break trying to do a defensive shell. They scored less goals, and Bryz still allowed them.

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06-05-2013, 04:46 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
If you are going to do that then you go with a cheaper option in goal. Having a goalie with a cap hit of 5.6 mil that needs to be sheltered in a system is rediculous.
I'm fine with that. But as long as Laviolette is our coach, we're gonna have goaltender issues.

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06-05-2013, 05:10 PM
  #264
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I'm fine with that. But as long as Laviolette is our coach, we're gonna have goaltender issues.
I'm not fan of Lavi's lately but that's not necessarily true. Bob and Mason (even Cam Ward if you want to go way back) proved that an athletic goalie can work with his system. Bryz just isn't athletic enough to play in it, he's slow as hell getting across the crease.

We just need one that doesn't have mental issues (Mason) or inexperience (Bob) and we should be good.

I'm not against bringing in a new coach but its not because of the goalies and no way in hell am I keeping Bryz here much longer.

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06-05-2013, 05:16 PM
  #265
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How about this for an offseason:
Buyout Briere and Bryz
Trade Mez for a 3rd round pick
Sign Thomas to $2 mill 1 year deal
Trade Couts + our 2nd for Goligoski and Dal 1st(#10)
Trade our 1st(#11) pick to Chicado for Leddy + Chicago's 1st
Sign Gordon are FO and 4th line defensive duties.

Kimmo Schenn
Coburn Leddy
Goligoski Grossmann
Gus-we all know we will have 1 D-man hurt at all times so he will be playing.

on F...we lose our 3rd line C and add Gordon. Couts points are replaced by Leddy and Goligoski + his replacement...Laughton maybe.

At draft...we draft Risto + Morin...or anyone else who falls that we like.

This would change our D to much better puck movers than currently and Kimmo can play less minutes by reducing PP or PK time.
I think you have the picks reversed in this trade. Like it or not, right now Goli has more trade value than Coots.

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06-05-2013, 05:27 PM
  #266
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I think you have the picks reversed in this trade. Like it or not, right now Goli has more trade value than Coots.
no way no how. Goligoski is a nothing special 2nd pairing dman.

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06-05-2013, 05:33 PM
  #267
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Let's not sell low on Couturier

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06-05-2013, 05:42 PM
  #268
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no way no how. Goligoski is a nothing special 2nd pairing dman.
Like it or not Coots couldn't get us either of Goli nor their 1st no matter how much we value his "future potential". Now I'm not saying for a second that I'd trade Coots for Goli but just that in a trade involving those two, WE'D be the ones "adding" to the deal, not them.

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06-05-2013, 05:51 PM
  #269
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Like it or not Coots couldn't get us either of Goli nor their 1st no matter how much we value his "future potential". Now I'm not saying for a second that I'd trade Coots for Goli but just that in a trade involving those two, WE'D be the ones "adding" to the deal, not them.
i bet you edmonton would trade 7 for couturier right now.

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06-05-2013, 06:04 PM
  #270
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I think you have the picks reversed in this trade. Like it or not, right now Goli has more trade value than Coots.
Not that it means anything, but I'm pretty sure that deal was mutually accepted by both fan bases on the trade board.

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06-05-2013, 06:20 PM
  #271
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I think you have the picks reversed in this trade. Like it or not, right now Goli has more trade value than Coots.
Yeah, I doubt that. Goligoski's value right now isn't exactly sky high.

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06-05-2013, 07:06 PM
  #272
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I think you have the picks reversed in this trade. Like it or not, right now Goli has more trade value than Coots.
This trade was actually agreed upon by Dallas fans and Philly fans. Both said it would be a deal that would hurt, but helped the teams positionally. Dallas gets the number 2 C with upside, and Philly gets the offensive D man. And because Couts upside, the Dallas fans were fine with giving up the 10th pick to move it to #41.

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06-05-2013, 07:12 PM
  #273
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This trade was actually agreed upon by Dallas fans and Philly fans. Both said it would be a deal that would hurt, but helped the teams positionally. Dallas gets the number 2 C with upside, and Philly gets the offensive D man. And because Couts upside, the Dallas fans were fine with giving up the 10th pick to move it to #41.
If that's true then they are insane. If they were willing to make that trade I'd probably have to accept it even though I really don't want to trade Coots. Having the 10th and 11th picks in this draft AND getting at least a 2nd pairing PMD too, that probably makes our team better in the long run. Again, even though we can discuss things like this like WE were GM's, I still doubt that we'd get that in return for Coots. Maybe I'm wrong.

Personally, I'm not very high on Goligoski. I think that if we disliked Carle that we'll want to KILL Goligoski. If it were up to me I'd rather have Rundblad over Goligoski in the deal.

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06-05-2013, 07:32 PM
  #274
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I'm not fan of Lavi's lately but that's not necessarily true. Bob and Mason (even Cam Ward if you want to go way back) proved that an athletic goalie can work with his system. Bryz just isn't athletic enough to play in it, he's slow as hell getting across the crease.

We just need one that doesn't have mental issues (Mason) or inexperience (Bob) and we should be good.

I'm not against bringing in a new coach but its not because of the goalies and no way in hell am I keeping Bryz here much longer.
You need to re-check Cam Ward's numbers under Lavy.

Bob had a nice year, probably the best anyone has ever done under Lavy. I don't think it's a surprise he's taken off now that he isn't in Lavy's system.

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06-05-2013, 07:40 PM
  #275
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You need to re-check Cam Ward's numbers under Lavy.

Bob had a nice year, probably the best anyone has ever done under Lavy. I don't think it's a surprise he's taken off now that he isn't in Lavy's system.
Well he did win him a cup so that has to count for something and posted a .916SV% in his last year under Lavi. I don't think Lavi's system is beneficial to the goalies but I don't think it's a detriment like you think. You also have to factor in that we really haven't had any good goalies that were polished under Lavi.

I'm not against getting rid of Lavi but that reason (if you could even call it one) is far down my list of reasons why to.

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