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Draft Thread Part 2: Bark to the Future

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Old
06-05-2013, 09:26 PM
  #526
Legionnaire11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Sure, throw bourque in. In a heartbeat! Smith has more value than him IMO anyways, it's a win-win.

If bourque gets us first overall, we would be crazy not to. The guy is at best a third liner.
Except that Bourque has outplayed Smith BADLY in both ends since they came into the league with the exception of Smith's hot start.

Bourque is a bonafide second line scorer, just because he wasn't hyped before he came here the way some other guys have been doesn't change the actual results on ice.

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06-05-2013, 09:50 PM
  #527
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maple has been saying that about bourque the entire time, don't waste your time, it's like byrddog and smith

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06-05-2013, 10:03 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
maple has been saying that about bourque the entire time, don't waste your time, it's like byrddog and smith
I agree if we could get anything for Smith right now would be the time. Otherwise were going to pay the guy 4 mil over the next two years to breath. because he is useless on this team.

However if it takes Smith Borque and Blum and a pick next year to land Mac there still may be value. Borque is by far the best of the three were putting up in this scenario. Smith has no value in my mind and Blum only slightly more. Borque could be serviceable as third line perhaps 2nd. But the package is worth a chance for MacK.

In any case like someone said before if we rely on FF Wilson and MacK as the first line we will have ample chances at another top five pick next summer.

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06-05-2013, 10:36 PM
  #529
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I'm all aboard the Barkov-train, but if there's any chance where we could get MacKinnon for only giving up the assets mentioned above, you do it all day.

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06-06-2013, 06:10 AM
  #530
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
maple has been saying that about bourque the entire time, don't waste your time, it's like byrddog and smith
How is bourque more than a third liner? Or a ''bonafide 2nd liner'' as some say?!

The guy has never even put up 20 points in an NHL season!

I don't hate bourque at all, I just think he gets way more credit here than he deserves, always gets mentioned with forsberg, beck, etc

I'm sorry, just have higher hopes for the other two, bourque may be ok, but once he puts up twenty points come see me.

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06-06-2013, 06:27 AM
  #531
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When is the last time that Beck scored 20 points in the NHL?

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06-06-2013, 06:37 AM
  #532
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
How is bourque more than a third liner? Or a ''bonafide 2nd liner'' as some say?!

The guy has never even put up 20 points in an NHL season!

I don't hate bourque at all, I just think he gets way more credit here than he deserves, always gets mentioned with forsberg, beck, etc

I'm sorry, just have higher hopes for the other two, bourque may be ok, but once he puts up twenty points come see me.
That's a little unfair since he wasn't called up until late last season and this season was locked out half the season.

However if you piece his first 2 half seasons together he has 77 games played, which is almost a full season. In that 77 games he has 18 goals and 17 assist for 35 points. Not bad for his first 77 games is it? It's better than Erat or Legwand's first 77 games and pretty close to Radulov's first seasons totals.

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06-06-2013, 07:22 AM
  #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
How is bourque more than a third liner? Or a ''bonafide 2nd liner'' as some say?!

The guy has never even put up 20 points in an NHL season!

I don't hate bourque at all, I just think he gets way more credit here than he deserves, always gets mentioned with forsberg, beck, etc

I'm sorry, just have higher hopes for the other two, bourque may be ok, but once he puts up twenty points come see me.
its an admittedly small sample but this year he had 11 goals in 34 games. projected over an 82 game season thats 26 goals. so youre right, he isnt a second liner... if those numbers hold up hes a first liner, at least on this team.


that said, if trading him gets us Mackinnon, I'd do it in a heartbeat

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06-06-2013, 08:18 AM
  #534
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Bourque was one of the best players along with Wilson. Until he got hurt.You need guys like Bourque on your team. He busts his ass out there and plays fast. It's no doubt in my mind he will get even better. He will be a nice 2nd line player sooner rather than later. If you actually watch the games you will see that in him. If!! He can stay healthy.
No way you move Bourque or Wilson. Barkov, Bourque, Wilson, Smith together is a lot better team than just Mac.

If you can move Blum, Ellis, SK, future picks, to move up then do it all day. If not stay put

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06-06-2013, 09:18 AM
  #535
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I have not given up on Wilson or Bourque, however both are still in the hold pattern and not ready for top 6 long haul. Wilson has the same collageitis that Smith has not been able to overcome. Wilson was showing nice improvement before getting hurt and deserves a chance. The college game is far removed from the NHL just as much as the Euro game and it takes time to develop these players replace the college years for AHL experience for Wilson and he may well be 1st line material right now. Bourque at this point is neck and neck with Wilson in production and it would be great for both to breakout this year.

With all that said if it takes one of them to sweeten the pot to get MacK you have to consider it. the center position has been weak here since day one. Even in the Arnott years they still had Legwand over his head playing center top 6. I would not move both Wilson and Bourque though. Smith is a no brainer he is still a project and has soured here he could well develop and become a serviceable 3rd liner in another uni. At some point you must have some established veterans in the game or the team will look like the OIL loads of potential but frustration on the ice. The team is out of balance right now and has huge holes offensively and issues on defense With Josi, Weber, and KK solid the other positions are uncertain and the pipeline rather bare. We continue to debate bringing on more youngsters in ever increasing roles. And in the same sentence proclaim the team ready to run at the playoffs and some think the cup. DP needs to get real active July 1 or were going to be looking at another top 5 pick next June.

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06-06-2013, 09:20 AM
  #536
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I just don't see it in bourque, but hey I hope he proves me wrong and starts to really put up some big numbers in a full season, I will watch him closely in 2013-2014.

But he is not exactly putting up second line numbers as of now, but I do see there is some potential, so I will not comment any further about bourque.

But if moving bourque gets you mackinnon, you have to make that move.

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06-06-2013, 09:23 AM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
I have not given up on Wilson or Bourque, however both are still in the hold pattern and not ready for top 6 long haul. Wilson has the same collageitis that Smith has not been able to overcome. Wilson was showing nice improvement before getting hurt and deserves a chance. The college game is far removed from the NHL just as much as the Euro game and it takes time to develop these players replace the college years for AHL experience for Wilson and he may well be 1st line material right now. Bourque at this point is neck and neck with Wilson in production and it would be great for both to breakout this year.

With all that said if it takes one of them to sweeten the pot to get MacK you have to consider it. the center position has been weak here since day one. Even in the Arnott years they still had Legwand over his head playing center top 6. I would not move both Wilson and Bourque though. Smith is a no brainer he is still a project and has soured here he could well develop and become a serviceable 3rd liner in another uni. At some point you must have some established veterans in the game or the team will look like the OIL loads of potential but frustration on the ice. The team is out of balance right now and has huge holes offensively and issues on defense With Josi, Weber, and KK solid the other positions are uncertain and the pipeline rather bare. We continue to debate bringing on more youngsters in ever increasing roles. And in the same sentence proclaim the team ready to run at the playoffs and some think the cup. DP needs to get real active July 1 or were going to be looking at another top 5 pick next June.
Wilson is ahead of bourque currently, they are definitely not neck and neck.

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06-06-2013, 09:41 AM
  #538
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In Wilsons first two years as pred he played 117 games and had 49 points or .41 points per game.

In Bourques first two years as a pred he played 77 games and had 35 points or .45 points per game.

Borque is a year younger and I feel safe saying they are neck and neck in production if you compare apples to apples. Boruque actually has been more productive in his first two years than Wilson actually but I still think they have equal potential. Neither have 1st line numbers yet that is the point. But from a potential stance there is not much difference.

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06-06-2013, 09:46 AM
  #539
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Not to mention Bourque has a much better defensive game and is the better forechecker.

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06-06-2013, 09:53 AM
  #540
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If you look at Bourque's stats in the distance, IF, and I repeat, IF Bourque continues or improves his offensive pace he will be one of the top LW's in Preds history. he's biggest competition/comparison is SK. Bourque has a better goal scoring pace but SK is better points wise.

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06-06-2013, 09:56 AM
  #541
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Not to mention Bourque has a much better defensive game and is the better forechecker.
That is true as well but I do think we need forwards whos goal in life is to be offensive first. And Wilson is that. And that has been a hold back in his development with Trotz system. Wilson has been in and out of the doghouse because of that.

Its hard to teach an old dog new tricks but Trotz needs to let loose a little on the offense or his days will be numbered. This is not to say allow some forwards to be reckless defensively but allow them make plays without being beat over the head and benched or moved to the 4th line. See Dumont J.P. or a host of other players over the history.

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06-06-2013, 10:23 AM
  #542
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What's funny is, there's really not that much responsibilities for the wingers defensively. Trotz wants them to backcheck of course but they're really just responsible for covering the defensemen in the offensive zone. Wilson's problems stem from turnovers in the neutral zone. Trotz hates neutral zone turnovers.

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06-06-2013, 10:29 AM
  #543
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I'm a little leery of assuming Bourque will regularly score at the pace he did this season. His shooting percentage was almost Kostitsyn like...in most instances, that tends to level out.

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06-06-2013, 10:35 AM
  #544
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Yeah but we all know that Trotz expects his centers to all be shutdown players and this may well be why Wilson is listed as a center but plays wing. Most offensive players have turnover concerns but in the netral zone your right Wilson does have that issue but hes not alone that's a problem with many of the guys and Wilsons age brings extra attention to him.

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06-06-2013, 10:37 AM
  #545
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I'm a little leery of assuming Bourque will regularly score at the pace he did this season. His shooting percentage was almost Kostitsyn like...in most instances, that tends to level out.
In talking about his NHL career in general.

Now bad to topic, who's going to Jersey for the draft?

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06-06-2013, 10:42 AM
  #546
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I'm a little leery of assuming Bourque will regularly score at the pace he did this season. His shooting percentage was almost Kostitsyn like...in most instances, that tends to level out.
Keep in mind a lot of his goals were from tips so his shooting percentage may look skewed because of that.

And to be honest a guy that can stand in the slot or in front of net and have that ability to redirect shots like that is a plus in my book.

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06-06-2013, 10:46 AM
  #547
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
In talking about his NHL career in general.

Now bad to topic, who's going to Jersey for the draft?
Perhaps going next year.

The topic has kind of drifted some but it is still relevant considering bringing in another young player into the system one must take into consideration the past young players treatment and the impact on performance and development.

Be it Barkov or any other forward that is going to be drafted the scrutiny is going to be even more. By fans and coaches alike. We have beat the talent level to death already comparing the euros to NA and picking apart each others opinions. maybe a poll thread with multiple possibilities is in order. Since we still have 24 days until we can look forward.

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06-06-2013, 12:47 PM
  #548
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
That is true as well but I do think we need forwards whos goal in life is to be offensive first. And Wilson is that. And that has been a hold back in his development with Trotz system. Wilson has been in and out of the doghouse because of that.

Its hard to teach an old dog new tricks but Trotz needs to let loose a little on the offense or his days will be numbered. This is not to say allow some forwards to be reckless defensively but allow them make plays without being beat over the head and benched or moved to the 4th line. See Dumont J.P. or a host of other players over the history.
JP never was a great defender ... didn't get moved to a lower line until he played here successfully for several years (see Arnott and Kariya for other defensively lax players who did well in Preds colors). Adam Hall averaged 14+ goals per season in his full years as a Pred ... never came close to that elsewhere .... but of course Trotz always stifles offense.

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06-06-2013, 01:05 PM
  #549
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Do you guys think it may almost be better to draft nichushkin or drouin rather than Mack or barks?!
I mean if trotz is just going to smash them for defense abilities, that would really hurt their offensive development like we have seen before with other prospects.

Although barks and Mack do have good two way games already to go with being offensive powerhouses. Hmmmm

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06-06-2013, 01:21 PM
  #550
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Do you guys think it may almost be better to draft nichushkin or drouin rather than Mack or barks?!
I mean if trotz is just going to smash them for defense abilities, that would really hurt their offensive development like we have seen before with other prospects.

Although barks and Mack do have good two way games already to go with being offensive powerhouses. Hmmmm
Know what you are saying, but I think you should never pass on elite offensive talent. Its too scarce. I think Housley would help here. The Preds have to score and it may be easier to do it via individual offensive talent rather than through the larger system. Think this is kinda what New Jersey was thinking with Kovy; play our system but let Kovy be Kovy.

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