HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Would the Habs benefit from a Heavyweight enforcer? Part 3

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-05-2013, 04:31 PM
  #876
ECWHSWI
Spartan mic'
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud12 View Post
Carkner, Engelland, Thornton, Kassian, Orr, Fraser disagree with you .Also, I could probably add Haley and Newbury but they aren't heavy.
off the eight you named, ONE is playing every game for his team...

the others ? gone in the first round

ECWHSWI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2013, 04:46 PM
  #877
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 32,722
vCash: 500
Even if you have a 6 minute enforcer at a 750-800k cap hit and he doesn't dress n the playoffs, it's worth having him against dirty/tough teams during the season to keep your players from getting jumped.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2013, 05:00 PM
  #878
overlords
Hfboards
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Even if you have a 6 minute enforcer at a 750-800k cap hit and he doesn't dress n the playoffs, it's worth having him against dirty/tough teams during the season to keep your players from getting jumped.
So teams with enforcers don't get their players jumped?

overlords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2013, 05:21 PM
  #879
bud12
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
off the eight you named, ONE is playing every game for his team...

the others ? gone in the first round
Orr, Carkner and Fraser played every game for there team. (minus injurie). Kassian played a bunch too. Haley and Newbury were added in the last 2 games again the bruins because the rangers where too soft. Same for Engelland.

bud12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2013, 05:23 PM
  #880
ECWHSWI
Spartan mic'
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud12 View Post
Orr, Carkner and Fraser played every game for there team. (minus injurie). Kassian played a bunch too. Haley and Newbury were added in the last 2 games again the bruins because the rangers where too soft. Same for Engelland.
think you missed this part : others ? GONE.

ECWHSWI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2013, 05:39 PM
  #881
bud12
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
think you missed this part : others ? GONE.
think you missed this part : who give a damn?

habs don't have one and they are GONE too

In fact, all the teams who played one of those guys winned more games than the habs in those playoff.

bud12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2013, 10:00 PM
  #882
ECWHSWI
Spartan mic'
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud12 View Post
think you missed this part : who give a damn?

habs don't have one and they are GONE too

In fact, all the teams who played one of those guys winned more games than the habs in those playoff.
So, what you're saying is, having one doesnt change a thing when it comes to winning games... took you a while to admit it.

ECWHSWI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2013, 01:11 AM
  #883
andy28
Registered User
 
andy28's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
So teams with enforcers don't get their players jumped?
They do. People who wear seatbelts die in cars, too. But the seatbelt gives a lot of people a better chance. When another team starts shoving you around its nice to have someone to make bullying you less fun. When the job becomes more painful, instinct makes you do it less. Plus when your team is down it's always nice to win one battle. You are losing on the scoreboard and then you get our butt handed to you, it can be pretty demoralizing. Fighting happens in hockey whether we have the guys to do it or not, we can't avoid it. Would rather see someone else handle it than have to watch what happened to Tom Pyatt a couple years ago.

Last season a few of our players started asking for someone to fill that role. Plekanec was one of them, I think. Staubitz was brought in. Not exactly the best player for the job, but he did it, and the players said they felt a lot more comfortable having him out there for certain games. Players feeling less scared is a plus, and maybe I'm crazy, but I think that could help you win games now and then.

We were told in the last offseason that things were changing, that playing the Habs was going to hurt. I would like to see a little of that.


Last edited by andy28: 06-06-2013 at 01:26 AM.
andy28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2013, 01:40 AM
  #884
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 8,261
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy28 View Post
They do. People who wear seatbelts die in cars, too. But the seatbelt gives a lot of people a better chance. When another team starts shoving you around its nice to have someone to make bullying you less fun. When the job becomes more painful, instinct makes you do it less. Plus when your team is down it's always nice to win one battle. You are losing on the scoreboard and then you get our butt handed to you, it can be pretty demoralizing. Fighting happens in hockey whether we have the guys to do it or not, we can't avoid it. Would rather see someone else handle it than have to watch what happened to Tom Pyatt a couple years ago.

Last season a few of our players started asking for someone to fill that role. Plekanec was one of them, I think. Staubitz was brought in. Not exactly the best player for the job, but he did it, and the players said they felt a lot more comfortable having him out there for certain games. Players feeling less scared is a plus, and maybe I'm crazy, but I think that could help you win games now and then.

We were told in the last offseason that things were changing, that playing the Habs was going to hurt. I would like to see a little of that.
It's going to take more than one season. They kept Moen and added Prust, which turned into a lateral move because of Moen's decline which is hopefully temporary. Prust couldn't do it alone and he ended the season a cripple.

We need 4 or 5 Prusts on the roster, basically.

DAChampion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2013, 02:03 AM
  #885
Kimota
Three Bananas
 
Kimota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: La Vieille Capitale
Country: France
Posts: 22,651
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
So, what you're saying is, having one doesnt change a thing when it comes to winning games... took you a while to admit it.
Having one helps you if you have a bunch of wusses. It adds even more if you're built with tough hombres like Boston.

Kimota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2013, 02:05 AM
  #886
Kimota
Three Bananas
 
Kimota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: La Vieille Capitale
Country: France
Posts: 22,651
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
GOAT = Greatest of all time.
I thought he was talking about Gauthier.

Kimota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2013, 02:10 AM
  #887
andy28
Registered User
 
andy28's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
So, what you're saying is, having one doesnt change a thing when it comes to winning games... took you a while to admit it.
I think it helps. You take last year when Boyle started picking on Karlsson. Next game Sens sent out Konopka and Carkner to send him a little message. How does that help? Well, on the Habs, Karlsson would have just continued getting picked on and that can get a little emasculating after a while. You don't see any justice and you have no hope things will be better. What Carkner did not only sent a message to Boyle that you better not pick on EK, it also sent a message to Karlsson that someone has his back. So, Boyle stole your lunch money kid. Don't fret, I am gonna go steal it back for you. It also showed that Paul MacLean has his back, too. That's encouraging. Habs players have to sit and watch while someone steals their lunch money. That happens to you enough, it's pretty hard not lose hope. If you had to go to work everyday at a job where someone give you a little face wash and calls you his little $%%^^, you'd start finding it pretty demoralizing to go to work. Luckily, at most jobs people are not allowed to do that. In hockey, the ref is supposed to keep things in check but he lets a lot more go than the manager at the office. So even if you can't always stop it from happening in the first place it always helps to see a little justice. And since hockey is not reffed in a way where that is always provided, a few vigilantes are needed.

Would I rather have a guy who can fight and hit and also is a really good hockey player. You bet. But they aren't always easy to come by and beggers can't be choosers. Get someone who isn't a too much of a liabilty and play him as you need him.


Last edited by andy28: 06-06-2013 at 02:31 AM.
andy28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2013, 02:27 AM
  #888
Corncob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,206
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy28 View Post
Fighting happens in hockey whether we have the guys to do it or not, we can't avoid it. Would rather see someone else handle it than have to watch what happened to Tom Pyatt a couple years ago.
Pyatt was involved in a line brawl (started by a Habs player). What do you think would happen in a line brawl if we had a heavyweight, that he'd be fighting the whole Boston team?

Corncob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2013, 02:30 AM
  #889
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 8,261
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corncob View Post
Pyatt was involved in a line brawl (started by a Habs player). What do you think would happen in a line brawl if we had a heavyweight, that he'd be fighting the whole Boston team?
That's why you need multiple heavyweights. Right now we have Prust, Moen, and White for toughness. If we added McGratten and Bickel, it would be a good start.

As an example, Toronto was a joke for years. Now, in addition to Phaneuf and Orr, they have Mark Fraser, Frazer McLaren, and Cody Franson. They are finally tough. We can see the difference. Nearly everybody can see the difference, except for a few anti-toughness ideologues on the Habs boards who think we are a "fast" and "skilled" team and that we can make other teams "pay the price with our almighty power play".

DAChampion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2013, 02:37 AM
  #890
ECWHSWI
Spartan mic'
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy28 View Post
I think it helps. You take last year when Boyle started picking on Karlsson. Next game Sens sent out Konopka and Carkner to send him a little message. How does that help? Well, on the Habs, Karlsson would have just continued getting picked on and that can get a little emasculating after a while. You don't see any justice and you have no hope things will be better. What Carkner did not only sent a message to Boyle that you better not pick on EK, it also sent a message to Karlsson that someone has his back. So, Boyle stole your lunch money kid. Don't fret, I am gonna go steal it back for you. It also showed that Paul MacLean has his back, too. That's encouraging. Habs players have to sit and watch while someone steals their lunch money. That happens to you enough, it's pretty hard not lose hope. If you had to go to work everyday at a job where someone give you a little face wash and calls you his little $%%^^, you'd start finding it pretty demoralizing to go to work. Luckily, at most jobs people are not allowed to do that. In hockey, the ref is supposed to keep things in check but he lets a lot more go than the manager at the office. So even if you can't always stop it from happening in the first place it always helps to see a little justice. And since hockey is not reffed in a way where that is always provided, a few vigilantes are needed.

Would I rather have a guy who can fight and hit and also is a really good hockey player. You bet. But they aren't always easy to come by and beggers can't be choosers. Get someone who isn't a too much of a liabilty and play him as you need him.
that was Boyle being dumb, it's quite obvious actually... you have no goons, no type of enforcer ala Neil or something and you don't play a physical team game much ? don't pick on opponents, just do legal hits and al'...

perfect example of this, DRW dont have enforcers or goons, yet no one try to intimidate them, they play their game without trying to agitate or anything and they're doing just fine. (and YES they crash the net, every single one of them)

ECWHSWI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2013, 02:38 AM
  #891
ECWHSWI
Spartan mic'
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
That's why you need multiple heavyweights. Right now we have Prust, Moen, and White for toughness. If we added McGratten and Bickel, it would be a good start.

As an example, Toronto was a joke for years. Now, in addition to Phaneuf and Orr, they have Mark Fraser, Frazer McLaren, and Cody Franson. They are finally tough. We can see the difference. Nearly everybody can see the difference, except for a few anti-toughness ideologues on the Habs boards who think we are a "fast" and "skilled" team and that we can make other teams "pay the price with our almighty power play".
the way they lost in the PO, I think they'll keep being te joke of the league...

ECWHSWI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2013, 02:39 AM
  #892
andy28
Registered User
 
andy28's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corncob View Post
Pyatt was involved in a line brawl (started by a Habs player). What do you think would happen in a line brawl if we had a heavyweight, that he'd be fighting the whole Boston team?
We were getting pounded in fights all game. Players get frustrated and start fights even if you can't win them. Because they are seeking that justice. If you have a few people to do that for you, instead of people who have no business fighting, we might never have that brawl.

andy28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2013, 02:40 AM
  #893
ECWHSWI
Spartan mic'
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy28 View Post
We were getting pounded in fights all game. Players get frustrated and start fights even if you can't win them. Because they are seeking that justice. If you have a few people to do that for you, instead of people who have no business fighting, we might never have that brawl.
Pyatt was a'right, a few scratches and maybe a bruised ego, that is all.

ECWHSWI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2013, 02:44 AM
  #894
andy28
Registered User
 
andy28's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Pyatt was a'right, a few scratches and maybe a bruised ego, that is all.
He had is face cut up with an elbow pad and that had to be terribly demoralizing. I would feel a lot better personally if I knew someone had my back. That's why Plekanec and others asked for someone last year. That's why they said it made them more comfortable out there.

andy28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2013, 03:11 AM
  #895
andy28
Registered User
 
andy28's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
that was Boyle being dumb, it's quite obvious actually... you have no goons, no type of enforcer ala Neil or something and you don't play a physical team game much ? don't pick on opponents, just do legal hits and al'...
So I take it Karlsson was picking on Boyle first and that wouldn't have happened if Karlsson wasn't such a meanie throwing illegal hits left and right.

I am all for playing a clean game and keeping out of trouble. That's the way I want it. I don't want us to go out and bully opponents the way some teams try to. But other teams bully us, and they don't wait for a reason. I just would like to see our players have a few guys to have their backs when that happens.


Last edited by andy28: 06-06-2013 at 03:19 AM.
andy28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2013, 03:19 AM
  #896
ECWHSWI
Spartan mic'
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy28 View Post
So I take it Karlsson was picking on Boyle first and that wouldn;t have happened if Karlsson wasn't such a meanie.
think you may want to re-read the post you quoted.

ECWHSWI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2013, 03:20 AM
  #897
ECWHSWI
Spartan mic'
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy28 View Post
He had is face cut up with an elbow pad and that had to be terribly demoralizing. I would feel a lot better personally if I knew someone had my back. That's why Plekanec and others asked for someone last year. That's why they said it made them more comfortable out there.
so, what you're saying is you have no clue what it's like to punch or get punched by someone.

ECWHSWI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2013, 03:23 AM
  #898
andy28
Registered User
 
andy28's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
think you may want to re-read the post you quoted.
Well, if I missed something, perhaps you could make your point clearer. Mine was that Karlsson was getting picked on and that he didn't do anything to ask for it. So playing like Detroit doesn't always keep you from getting bullied.

andy28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2013, 03:25 AM
  #899
ECWHSWI
Spartan mic'
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy28 View Post
Well, if I missed something, perhaps you could make your point clearer. Mine was that Karlsson was getting picked on and that he didn't do anything to ask for it. So playing like Detroit doesn't always keep you from getting bullied.
it's pretty clear actually.

ECWHSWI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2013, 03:30 AM
  #900
andy28
Registered User
 
andy28's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
it's pretty clear actually.
Well, are you arguing that Boyle was stupid to do that? That would have nothing whatsoever to do with the original point I was making.

Whether he was stupid or not, he did it. And if Karlsson was a Hab he would have no reason to stop doing it. Ottawa sent someone out to give Boyle a message about bullying Karlsson. That was a good thing. And Karlsson does play a pretty clean game, didn't stop him from getting picked on.

andy28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:34 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.