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2013 Offseason Thread Part III: Free Agents Suck

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06-06-2013, 08:58 AM
  #701
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Gonchar wanted a 2 year contract. He's 39 right now. Ottawa wasn't giving him 2 years.

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06-06-2013, 08:58 AM
  #702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
I don't move MDZ until Staal's locked up long-term.

Moving MDZ for a forward will have less of an impact than people here think. Especially if that forward is only going to provide an additional 20 points over MDZ.

I think you guys are severely underestimating how much a system can impact puck-possession, and scoring. I think you guys are severely underestimating Staal's future. I think you guys are severely underestimating how difficult procuring a 40 point dmen is. Especially one that hasn't even scratched the surface of his potential.

Some of you guys have convinced yourself that moving MDZ for a young forward is a big step in 'fixing' this team. Right. Toots for Zherdev anyone? Some of the same people supporting this asinine, short-sighted idea were raving about the Toots/Zherdev trade a few years ago.

My how things rarely change around here. Not just here though. Ranger-land in general.

It's not working, trade it, dump it, move it.

God, I hope some of you guys don't get married. Divorce city I tell ya, the second something goes wrong.

Patience was never a NY thing. But, when Sather started applying a little patience with the philosophy of building a team, this organization started turning it around.

Suggesting we move 1 player doesn't scream impatient to me. Unless we're talking about a 22 year old kid who has proven to be a bit of a standout compared to pretty much every single dmen we've had since #2.

You guys disgust me. Every year, it's another round of this trade nonsense. Half of you guys don't even care who's traded. That aspect of hockey is more enjoyable than the game itself. Transaction junkies I tell you.
The thing is, Del Zotto is 4th (3rd maybe?) on the depth chart for LHD.. He's not near Mcdonagh or Staal, and Moore looked quite damn good.. If he can't play the right side like he has shown he really cant all that well, then what? If you can get a top 6 forward for him why wouldn't you pull the trigger? Staal is also here for 2 more years still and a whole lot of stuff can happen between now and then IF he leaves.

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06-06-2013, 09:04 AM
  #703
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I honestly think because the FA market is really not good, the Rangers may just stand pat and see what happens with a new coach/system other than a tweak or two on the bottom 6.

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06-06-2013, 09:07 AM
  #704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KreidertheGlider View Post
That's the difference between us and Boston. We have Hagelin on the 1st line, Boston would have him on their 3rd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I think, ideally, Hagelin would be a 3rd line LW to start the season. Can he play in the top-6? Of course. Do I like him? Absolutely.
Carl Hagelin scored at the same rate at ES this year as Jeff Carter, Jarome Iginla, Evander Kane, Nathan Horton, Jamie Benn, and Claude Giroux despite having significanly less puck-luck. These aren't all LW:ers, but I just wanted to put Hagelin's performance in perspective.

Granted, most of those players have an offensive game that translates to the PP, but that should have very little bearing when evaluating ES impact. Carl Hagelin is one of the better ES LW:ers in the league, and playing him on the 3rd line in that situation is grave misusage. He should be no lower than a 1B-line, in a 1A/1B situation like Boston has or like we had in the PO's this year.

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06-06-2013, 09:08 AM
  #705
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What's your best trade offer for Malkin this offseason? Playing a bit off the main boards here.

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06-06-2013, 09:09 AM
  #706
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
If Tyutin had been moved for the RIGHT forward, then it wouldn't have been a big deal.
Pretty big IF.

If we didn't draft Jessiman..

If Cherry didn't pass away..

If Sather didn't blow his load on Gomez, Drury, and Redden..

I can see it now..

If we didn't move MDZ for _____ we would have a steady, top-4 two-way dmen that can eat up 20 min a night. Instead we acquired a flashy forward who couldn't handle playing in NY.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
The thing is, Del Zotto is 4th (3rd maybe?) on the depth chart for LHD.. He's not near Mcdonagh or Staal, and Moore looked quite damn good.. If he can't play the right side like he has shown he really cant all that well, then what? If you can get a top 6 forward for him why wouldn't you pull the trigger? Staal is also here for 2 more years still and a whole lot of stuff can happen between now and then IF he leaves.
Moore hasn't done anything to bump MDZ out of the line-up. Staal might never be the same. Or, Staal might only be here another 2 season's.

Girardi's an UFA next year. Staal has 2 years left. Stralman's entering his final year.

Did Sather invest numerous high picks on guys like Staal, Del Zotto, Sanguinetti, McIlrath, Skjei, Sauer, etc. only to leave himself in a position where he needs to start signing UFA's to solidify our blue-line? I don't think so.

And explain to me where the guarantee is that this forward is going to turn things around for our club. 2 years is right around the corner. It's not that far away. You plan now so you're not scrambling in 2 years. But, what the hell would you guys know about the future.

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06-06-2013, 09:10 AM
  #707
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
The thing is, Del Zotto is 4th (3rd maybe?) on the depth chart for LHD.. He's not near Mcdonagh or Staal, and Moore looked quite damn good.. If he can't play the right side like he has shown he really cant all that well, then what? If you can get a top 6 forward for him why wouldn't you pull the trigger? Staal is also here for 2 more years still and a whole lot of stuff can happen between now and then IF he leaves.
Because we aren't so deep on defense that we can afford to trade one and not get one back. Because outside of MDZ we don't have anyone who can be a legitimate offensive threat.

MDZ has had moments where he has looked great. He's had moments where he's looked terrible. He's soon to be 23. He's been in the league for 4 years. I don't think it's surprising that he's been inconsistent. How much of that inconsistency was a byproduct of Torts? Who knows. But the possibility exists that MDZ will flourish in a more open system.

Trading him at this point could turn out to be a huge mistake. I get the fact that he's a LHD and doesn't play as well on the right side. Trading him for a forward doesn't solve that problem, because we still need a guy on the right side.

Tell me we are trading him for a young, puck-moving RHD of equal value and I'll be on board. Because that is what we need. If the Rangers don't think MDZ can be that player on the right side, trade him for a player who can be.

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06-06-2013, 09:11 AM
  #708
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I honestly think because the FA market is really not good, the Rangers may just stand pat and see what happens with a new coach/system other than a tweak or two on the bottom 6.
Get a bigger wing at a reasonable price, i suggest Stafford, but others could work.
Get a RHD to be the point shot on the PP, I like McBain, but others can fit the bill without breaking the bank.
Sign a FA 4th liner like Nystrom.
Call it a day.
See how the pieces fit in the new system and reassess.

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06-06-2013, 09:13 AM
  #709
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What's your best trade offer for Malkin this offseason? Playing a bit off the main boards here.
Nothing. Trading for him would gut this team.

Buyout Richards. Hang onto that cap space or spend it on 1 year deals if they think Malkin will test free agency, and then try to sign him in 2014.

If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. But we've all seen what trading quality depth for a superstar does to our roster.

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06-06-2013, 09:15 AM
  #710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
What's your best trade offer for Malkin this offseason? Playing a bit off the main boards here.

He'll cost arm and a leg. Want no part of it.

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Old
06-06-2013, 09:16 AM
  #711
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Because we aren't so deep on defense that we can afford to trade one and not get one back. Because outside of MDZ we don't have anyone who can be a legitimate offensive threat.

MDZ has had moments where he has looked great. He's had moments where he's looked terrible. He's soon to be 23. He's been in the league for 4 years. I don't think it's surprising that he's been inconsistent. How much of that inconsistency was a byproduct of Torts? Who knows. But the possibility exists that MDZ will flourish in a more open system.

Trading him at this point could turn out to be a huge mistake. I get the fact that he's a LHD and doesn't play as well on the right side. Trading him for a forward doesn't solve that problem, because we still need a guy on the right side.

Tell me we are trading him for a young, puck-moving RHD of equal value and I'll be on board. Because that is what we need. If the Rangers don't think MDZ can be that player on the right side, trade him for a player who can be.
Well then don't complain when the Rangers can't score goals next season either. Do you think a new coach/system is all of a sudden going to turn the Rangers into a legit contender? You guys don't want to sign UFAs and you don't want to make trades so we're gonna have the same problem scoring goals.

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06-06-2013, 09:17 AM
  #712
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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Carl Hagelin scored at the same rate at ES this year as Jeff Carter, Jarome Iginla, Evander Kane, Nathan Horton, Jamie Benn, and Claude Giroux despite having significanly less puck-luck. These aren't all LW:ers, but I just wanted to put Hagelin's performance in perspective.

Granted, most of those players have an offensive game that translates to the PP, but that should have very little bearing when evaluating ES impact. Carl Hagelin is one of the better ES LW:ers in the league, and playing him on the 3rd line in that situation is grave misusage. He should be no lower than a 1B-line, in a 1A/1B situation like Boston has or like we had in the PO's this year.
Hagelin's one of our most effective players, yet people think an ideal spot for him on our team is the third line. Same people who think Callahan is a third-liner as well.

The crowd that believes in this, also seem to believe that Kreider is a better option in our top-6. Ohhh, they irony...

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06-06-2013, 09:18 AM
  #713
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and here's a question if we're not gonna do anything other than resign our own FAs and do some minor bottom 6 work, why are we buying out Richards who at worst can at least be a 3c next year albeit overpaid? The buyout is still there next year. He would essentially be playing for another contract so he will be motivated, so its basically Brad Richards on a 1 year deal. If we're just gonna sit on the cap space to use towards 14 or so, why not.

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06-06-2013, 09:20 AM
  #714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Hagelin's one of our most effective players, yet people think an ideal spot for him on our team is the third line. Same people who think Callahan is a third-liner as well.

The crowd that believes in this, also seem to believe that Kreider is a better option in our top-6. Ohhh, they irony...
We've had 2 great lines the last 2 seasons (Hagelin-Richards-Gaborik) and Hagelin-Stepan-Nash.. He was on both.. Hagelin and Callahan as 3rd liners is an absolute pipe dream.

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06-06-2013, 09:20 AM
  #715
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Well then don't complain when the Rangers can't score goals next season either. Do you think a new coach/system is all of a sudden going to turn the Rangers into a legit contender? You guys don't want to sign UFAs and you don't want to make trades so we're gonna have the same problem scoring goals.
So trading MDZ for a forward is going to single-handedly change the dynamic of our offense.

1 ****ing forward is going to do that? Really? Like, seriously? Do you actually believe in this nonsense or are you too thick-headed to admit that it's a huge gamble that might not work out the way you think it will?

We better trade MDZ for a forward or we won't be scoring goals next season, son.

This asinine mentality needs to stop.

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06-06-2013, 09:21 AM
  #716
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
and here's a question if we're not gonna do anything other than resign our own FAs and do some minor bottom 6 work, why are we buying out Richards who at worst can at least be a 3c next year albeit overpaid? The buyout is still there next year. He would essentially be playing for another contract so he will be motivated, so its basically Brad Richards on a 1 year deal. If we're just gonna sit on the cap space to use towards 14 or so, why not.
If he gets injured next season, Rangers cannot buy him out and are stuck with his contract. Are you willing to take the risk?

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06-06-2013, 09:21 AM
  #717
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
So trading MDZ for a forward is going to single-handedly change the dynamic of our offense.

1 ****ing forward is going to do that? Really? Like, seriously? Do you actually believe in this nonsense or are you too thick-headed to admit that it's a huge gamble that might not work out the way you think it will?

We better trade MDZ for a forward or we won't be scoring goals next season, son.

This asinine mentality needs to stop.
no one said that did they? The thing is that top forward pushes EVERYONE else down = more depth. The same stuff people on here whine about. Sure its a gamble, everything in hockey when you make a trade is a risk. The contending teams take the risks.

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06-06-2013, 09:22 AM
  #718
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
If he gets injured next season, Rangers cannot buy him out and are stuck with his contract. Are you willing to take the risk?
seeing as he's been relatively healthy for a while now I don't really see a reason not to, especially if we have a coach who will be using a different system (hopefully not block shots, dump and chase). If we have a more open offensive minded coach yes, if its like a Tortorella, no

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06-06-2013, 09:23 AM
  #719
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
and here's a question if we're not gonna do anything other than resign our own FAs and do some minor bottom 6 work, why are we buying out Richards who at worst can at least be a 3c next year albeit overpaid? The buyout is still there next year. He would essentially be playing for another contract so he will be motivated, so its basically Brad Richards on a 1 year deal. If we're just gonna sit on the cap space to use towards 14 or so, why not.
All we need is another Kaleta situation next year with Richards, and we're screwed for a very, very long time.

It's ultimately not worth the risk. Even if he was, at worst, a 2C at this point in his career instead of a 3C.

Risk is not worth the reward, imo.

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06-06-2013, 09:23 AM
  #720
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Sign Nystrom, Stalberg

Trade MDZ for Burmistrov, Stuart, pick

Trade Pyatt and Bourque for McLeod

Hagelin Stepan Nash
Zuccarello Brassard Callahan
Kreider Burmistrov Stalberg
Nystrom Boyle Dorsett
McLeod

McDonagh Girardi
Staal Stralman
Moore Stuart
McIlrath

Speed, size, skill... This should be the identity of the team moving forward.

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06-06-2013, 09:24 AM
  #721
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
All we need is another Kaleta situation next year with Richards, and we're screwed for a very, very long time.

It's ultimately not worth the risk. Even if he was, at worst, a 2C at this point in his career instead of a 3C.

Risk is not worth the reward, imo.
He only missed a few games because of that hit. If anything that shows he's pretty damn tough

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06-06-2013, 09:25 AM
  #722
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As I've said though in the past, I don't care what we do with Richards, keep him/buy him out whatever. Either way in a year he is gone no matter what happens next season (even if he returns to 80 pt player). I just don't want to have all kinds of cap space we are sitting on while watching an inferior team.

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06-06-2013, 09:26 AM
  #723
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
no one said that did they? The thing is that top forward pushes EVERYONE else down = more depth. The same stuff people on here whine about. Sure its a gamble, everything in hockey when you make a trade is a risk. The contending teams take the risks.
Are you serious? You just posted this chestnut 5 minutes ago when GAGline tried talking some sense into you.


Quote:
Well then don't complain when the Rangers can't score goals next season either. Do you think a new coach/system is all of a sudden going to turn the Rangers into a legit contender? You guys don't want to sign UFAs and you don't want to make trades so we're gonna have the same problem scoring goals.
This is you implying we're going to struggle scoring goals next year if we don't move MDZ for a forward.

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06-06-2013, 09:26 AM
  #724
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What's your best trade offer for Malkin this offseason? Playing a bit off the main boards here.
I can't see us being in a position to make a trade for him. It would certainly have to include McDonagh or Stepan as a centerpiece. As much as I like the idea of Malkin in a Rangers uniform, we just can't justify another deal where we trade away a significant amount of depth for one guy.

Though I do think we'd have the best chance of retaining him after a trade. I've read/heard somewhere that Malkin loves NY and his favorite road arena is MSG.

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06-06-2013, 09:27 AM
  #725
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What's your best trade offer for Malkin this offseason? Playing a bit off the main boards here.
Staal+Kreider maybe add something more, but that would be a good starter? Creates a hole on D that would require that McIlrath is ready and/or add through free agency.

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