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2013 Offseason Thread Part III: Free Agents Suck

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Old
06-06-2013, 09:46 AM
  #751
GAGLine
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Well then don't complain when the Rangers can't score goals next season either. Do you think a new coach/system is all of a sudden going to turn the Rangers into a legit contender? You guys don't want to sign UFAs and you don't want to make trades so we're gonna have the same problem scoring goals.
What a new system will do for the players, I can't say. But to suggest that it won't mean anything is foolish. We've all seen players do well on one team and struggle on another. We've seen teams perform better with basically the same pieces when a new coach/system is brought in.

How did Gretzky do in phoenix? How did Tippett do with basically the same team?
How did Ron Wilson do in toronto? How did Carlyle do this year with basically the same team?

Maybe some of our players do better under a new coach. Maybe some do worse. Maybe the team as a whole doesn't really change as a result. I don't know what will happen.

But I do believe that Tort's system wore down the players. I do believe that some creativity was lost due to the fear of making mistakes. Maybe another coach will come in and we'll have the same problem. Maybe another coach will come in and we'll have more creativity and more offense, but not enough defensive discipline.

Again, I don't know what will happen. But until we see what the new coach brings, what type of system he employs, and how the players play in that system, how can we make educated personnel decisions?

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06-06-2013, 09:46 AM
  #752
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Pens just traded Jordan because he wanted to play with his brother. Trading a recently injured Staal, who only has 2 years left? Kreider isn't worth much until he produces consistently. Pens laugh at this offer.



Clowe and Hagelin are superior to Kreider. Unless your Bernmeister who wholeheartedly believes Kreider is more valuable than Stepan.



You just argued that you didn't imply what you just implied. And then you follow that up with this chestnut....

You're one of the people that's bought into the idea that trading MDZ for a forward is going to turn this team into some offensive beast that needs to be taking seriously.

Who is this forward that we're trading MDZ for anyway???
Boom, I don't see anyone saying trading MDZ for a forward is going to make this team #1 in the NHL offensively. Stop with the exaggerations.

I think what people have come to realize is that moving forward, if the Rangers expect to keep Staal, McDonagh and Moore, which is a more than solid left side, MDZ is the odd-man out. I would have no problem moving Moore IF he had the same value as MDZ, but he does not.

Moving into the future, the Rangers will need help offensively. Good young forwards seem to be hard to come by for this organization and they can't pay McDonagh, Staal and MDZ to all play on the left-side. That is too much money tied up in the same position.

Neither Staal, nor MDZ have proven they can play successfully on the right side.

It just so happens that with Richards future buyout, they need a C or LW as they are weak at both. RW seems to be a strength moving forward. So is defense.

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06-06-2013, 09:46 AM
  #753
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I would honestly rather see Miller or Lindberg play than Richards but that's just me.

I also think they can use the money they will recoup from amnestying him to help in other areas.
Miller and Lindberg maybe won't put up the points Richards maybe can, but will they do more on every shift? Will they play tough on every shift?

I would feel more confident, at this stage in all parties' careers, that Miller and Lindberg would hit the ice and be more of a difference regardless if they are getting secondary assists or not.

At this point in time, if the Rangers don't save themselves by using the amnesty buyout on Richards, they're stupid and asking for trouble. If Richards gets hurt bad enough, that's it, they're screwed. Cap recapture.

There's no real reason a team can't compete or even contend with young guys on the roster.

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06-06-2013, 09:48 AM
  #754
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Originally Posted by Chief View Post
I brought this up a couple of days ago and I proposed any two forwards and 1 defenseman from the Rangers roster.

I put it that way because the Pens are going to be looking for talent that can have an immediate impact and lessen the blow of losing Malkin. In my head, I could see them asking for Stepan, Kreider and McDonagh. Those would probably be the 3 players I would least like to see go (along with Cally). But you ask me to pull the trigger on that deal and I do it. We're talking about a 27 year old who is arguably the 2nd best player on the planet. Odds are stacked against any of Stepan, Kreider or McDonagh ever reaching that level.

BTW - I wouldn't expect Nash to be one of the forwards in such a trade for a few different reasons but if he was the pricetag, I'd rather build around Malkin than Nash.
so we would have a top line of Hagelin-Malkin-Nash, Lundqvist, and some defense.

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06-06-2013, 09:48 AM
  #755
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How did Ron Wilson do in toronto? How did Carlyle do this year with basically the same team?

Leafs added JVR and Kadri broke out.

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06-06-2013, 09:48 AM
  #756
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Use the $14,155,833 to sign Stepan, McDonough, Hagelin, and Zuccarello and maybe Clowe IF the brass thinks he still has enough left in the tank.

Amnesty Richards NEXT year, when we need the money to re-sign Hank, Girardi, Callahan, and Brassard, Del Zotto, and Kreider (as RFAs).

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06-06-2013, 09:50 AM
  #757
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Originally Posted by MacTruck View Post
Sign Nystrom, Stalberg

Trade MDZ for Burmistrov, Stuart, pick

Trade Pyatt and Bourque for McLeod

Hagelin Stepan Nash
Zuccarello Brassard Callahan
Kreider Burmistrov Stalberg
Nystrom Boyle Dorsett
McLeod

McDonagh Girardi
Staal Stralman
Moore Stuart
McIlrath

Speed, size, skill... This should be the identity of the team moving forward.
one of the best I've seen so far!

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06-06-2013, 09:52 AM
  #758
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I have been thinking about a 3rd line of Hagelin - Lindberg - Miller. Moving Miller to the wing would provide more size on that line without sacrificing speed. And they are all homegrown. Hagelin and Lindberg are defensively responsible too.
The kids line?

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06-06-2013, 09:53 AM
  #759
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Its funny, everyone talks about building a team like the Bruins, but if the cap stays the same, how are you building a Bruins team by having Rick Nash at 7.8M, Lundqvist at 7-8M, and giving a max contract to Malkin? That's not the Bruins, that's the Pittsburgh model
There's different ways to skin a cat. The Bruins cap hit for their top 6 forwards is an average of $6MM per and they have a cap hit of $6.9MM for Chara.

The Rangers won't have any defenseman making as much as Chara and they can have lower priced talent at a couple of positions in their Top 6 and make it work.

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06-06-2013, 09:53 AM
  #760
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Originally Posted by darko View Post
Leafs added JVR and Kadri broke out.
No! They couldn't have dealt a defenseman for a forward and it worked out! No way!



I am obviously joking, and attempting to lighten the mood, do not take this seriously. I repeat, do not take this seriously.

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06-06-2013, 09:55 AM
  #761
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There is something that's a big problem and honestly why I am worried so much about adding offense from somewhere. Hank is fed up with having very little support. If we continue to give that to him, and not even attempt to make it better, we are giving him every reason to walk out the door

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06-06-2013, 09:55 AM
  #762
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
I have been thinking about a 3rd line of Hagelin - Lindberg - Miller. Moving Miller to the wing would provide more size on that line without sacrificing speed. And they are all homegrown. Hagelin and Lindberg are defensively responsible too.
The kids line?
I would be totally fine with that.

I had been putting Kreider above Hagelin for the simple reason that I wouldn't want to put Kreider with a rookie center. Hagelin is a good defensive player.

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06-06-2013, 09:58 AM
  #763
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Boom, I don't see anyone saying trading MDZ for a forward is going to make this team #1 in the NHL offensively. Stop with the exaggerations.

I think what people have come to realize is that moving forward, if the Rangers expect to keep Staal, McDonagh and Moore, which is a more than solid left side, MDZ is the odd-man out. I would have no problem moving Moore IF he had the same value as MDZ, but he does not.

Moving into the future, the Rangers will need help offensively. Good young forwards seem to be hard to come by for this organization and they can't pay McDonagh, Staal and MDZ to all play on the left-side. That is too much money tied up in the same position.

Neither Staal, nor MDZ have proven they can play successfully on the right side.

It just so happens that with Richards future buyout, they need a C or LW as they are weak at both. RW seems to be a strength moving forward. So is defense.
Exactly. Plus, I see more potential in Moore as a two way defender, in the mold of McDonagh, then I see in Del Zotto who's biggest strength is getting points, what happens in between those moments where he gets a point. They're mostly filled with anxiety.

Role, price, depth, and need says the smart thing to do is shop Del Zotto to see what we can get.

Personally, I'd like a Paajarvi, Petry, #37 return. Adds depth upfront, recoup depth on the back end, and gets us an opportunity to move up at the draft. And in the long term saves some cap space for further needs.

If a deal doesn't present itself (unlikely), no one is saying kick him out the door.

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06-06-2013, 09:58 AM
  #764
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
I have been thinking about a 3rd line of Hagelin - Lindberg - Miller. Moving Miller to the wing would provide more size on that line without sacrificing speed. And they are all homegrown. Hagelin and Lindberg are defensively responsible too.
The kids line?
I sure as hell hope Lindberg can finish, because Hagelin or Miller certainly can't

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06-06-2013, 10:01 AM
  #765
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So they should stick with what they have and hope their offense comes around?
Never said that. What I did say is I wouldn't move MDZ until we lock up Staal long-term.

I'm not opposed to some changes. I just refuse to buy into the idea that trading MDZ for a forward is a recipe for success.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I have yet to see an idea from you. What do you want to see?
My ideas are probably boring, because they wouldn't involve a lot of trades and signings. I have a different concept from most on this forum when it comes down to building a winning team.

You can't have a huge turnover year after year. We've had three different teams in less than 2 years.

I would explore moving one of my favorite players in Marc. Not so much because of his injuries, but mostly the Carolina factor. I think he can get us a pick in the top-10.

I would target a guy like Ryder this summer. Someone who won't cost us any assets. Someone who can put the puck in the net. A pure offensive winger than can play on both flanks.

I would avoid Clowe. Love him, but not for more than 1-2 years.

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Ryder-Brassard-Callahan
Kreider-Miller-Zucca
Powe-Boyle-Dorset

McDonagh-Girardi
MDZ-Stralman
Moore-McIlrath

Something along these lines here.

If Staal can get us in the top-10, do what it takes to move down in the 4-6 range.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
Callahan and Girardi...immediately give Malkin the 'C', and pay him a little under what you anticipated giving Callahan and Girardi on their next contracts.
Ballsy. I like it. But I'd rather just wait to see if Malkin hits free-agency first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
the Rangers started showing some success when Marian Gaborik signed as a free agent, because you know we had actual goal scorer then.
The Rangers started showing success before we signed Gaborik. The Rangers became 'successful' when Lundqvist started playing for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I am already on board with buying out Richards 100% as long as they have a plan to MAKE THE TEAM BETTER
Buying out Richards and opening the door to a young guys could make the team better.

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Old
06-06-2013, 10:02 AM
  #766
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I sure as hell hope Lindberg can finish, because Hagelin or Miller certainly can't
They can finish enough for a 3rd line, they will wreak havoc with their speed.

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06-06-2013, 10:05 AM
  #767
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
No! They couldn't have dealt a defenseman for a forward and it worked out! No way!



I am obviously joking, and attempting to lighten the mood, do not take this seriously. I repeat, do not take this seriously.
But its true, joking or not.

Schenn, while hasn't put up the points Del Zotto has, its the same concept. Leafs had a need, they had depth, they traded depth from one position to fill a need at another.

If Fasth or Miller or someone else, like Hrivik come along and become part of the solution as well, great. That doesn't mean we shouldn't look to add a forward with breakout potential like Paajarvi (using him as an example) and saving cap space by trading Del Zotto.

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06-06-2013, 10:08 AM
  #768
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Never said that. What I did say is I wouldn't move MDZ until we lock up Staal long-term.

I'm not opposed to some changes. I just refuse to buy into the idea that trading MDZ for a forward is a recipe for success.



My ideas are probably boring, because they wouldn't involve a lot of trades and signings. I have a different concept from most on this forum when it comes down to building a winning team.

You can't have a huge turnover year after year. We've had three different teams in less than 2 years.

I would explore moving one of my favorite players in Marc. Not so much because of his injuries, but mostly the Carolina factor. I think he can get us a pick in the top-10.

I would target a guy like Ryder this summer. Someone who won't cost us any assets. Someone who can put the puck in the net. A pure offensive winger than can play on both flanks.

I would avoid Clowe. Love him, but not for more than 1-2 years.

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Ryder-Brassard-Callahan
Kreider-Miller-Zucca
Powe-Boyle-Dorset

McDonagh-Girardi
MDZ-Stralman
Moore-McIlrath

Something along these lines here.

If Staal can get us in the top-10, do what it takes to move down in the 4-6 range.




Ballsy. I like it. But I'd rather just wait to see if Malkin hits free-agency first.



The Rangers started showing success before we signed Gaborik. The Rangers became 'successful' when Lundqvist started playing for them.



Buying out Richards and opening the door to a young guys could make the team better.
I would be fine moving Staal if the return is where it should be for a player of his caliber.

Ryder is interesting, but he is terrible defensively.

The main reason I have been switching Hagelin and Kreider is because the Krieder-Miller-Zuccarello line would be one of the worst lines defensively in the NHL.

I just see some problems with the team as constructed that wouldn't be that difficult to fix IF they can retool the bottom-6 but they need to decide what type of team they want to be. Speed? Aggressiveness? Skill? Puck control?

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06-06-2013, 10:11 AM
  #769
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
why the hell would the Pens trade Malkin in the same division against a team they might just end up playing to get to the SC?
Probably for the same reasons why Boston traded Kessel to Toronto, because they got the best return for the player that they could. I don't know how often it's happened historically but the Rangers have done it a couple of times (that's off the top of my head) and Sather pulled off one of those trades, acquiring Lindros from Philly.

Not to mention, with realignment in 2013-14, if Pitt were scared to face Malkin in the playoffs, they'd only have 14 NHL teams out West to trade with.

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06-06-2013, 10:14 AM
  #770
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I think there are a few main questions that need to be answered:

1) What type of return can the Rangers get for either Staal or MDZ?
- Knowing this, they can determine which player to keep

2) What style of play is this team trying to reach? Speed? Skilled?
- Decide that, and bring in players who fit that

3) What players are available in the off-season for under market value due to the drop in cap/Amnesty buy-outs?
- Decide if any of those players can help the team and pounce with the added cap space provided by the Richards buyout.

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06-06-2013, 10:17 AM
  #771
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Kreider should be Stepan's wing along with Nash. That's a good line with speed, size and skill.
And no I am not Bernie, nor do I think Kreider is more valuable than Stepan.
I hope Kreider gets more consideration with a new HC. I really do. But even if Kreider does play better, having him on our third-line isn't the end of the world.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
I have been thinking about a 3rd line of Hagelin - Lindberg - Miller. Moving Miller to the wing would provide more size on that line without sacrificing speed. And they are all homegrown. Hagelin and Lindberg are defensively responsible too.
The kids line?
Really hoping both Lindberg and Miller can make a impact on our team next year.

Quote:
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I sure as hell hope Lindberg can finish, because Hagelin or Miller certainly can't
You're underestimating Hagelin quite a bit imo.

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06-06-2013, 10:17 AM
  #772
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Pittspurgh is an offensive powerhouse. Boston is tough. Toronto is quick. What is our identity? It used to be shot blocking, now, I'm not even sure..... We need to find our game.
I'm glad SOMEONE recognizes this.

The new coach needs to be in place so we can figure out what we want to be. Defensive team built on grinding it out?

Skill team? transition team? Lots of question marks. right now we seem to be a jack of all trades master of none type of team, which usually are the mediocre ones. TEams w/o identities are the easiest to beat unless they are filled with "elite" players playing all sorts of different games that blend in perfectly. I cant remember the last team that won w/o a clear sense of identity up and down the lineup.

I personally think we should be a puck possession team with quick passing and sustained offensive zone attack time, with a hard hitting D. I think that's the recipe for success. However, I don't believe we have the pieces to make that happen..not right now anyway.

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06-06-2013, 10:18 AM
  #773
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Ballsy. I like it. But I'd rather just wait to see if Malkin hits free-agency first.
Malkin is so much better than most players in the league, I feel you have to get him when you have the chance (which the Rangers might nor have via trade anyway).

Not to mention you would have Malkin for next season if you traded for him. Something that I think would send the message to Lundqvist, loud and clear, that the Rangers are serious about winning a Cup.

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06-06-2013, 10:20 AM
  #774
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Originally Posted by Chief View Post
Malkin is so much better than most players in the league, I feel you have to get him when you have the chance (which the Rangers might nor have via trade anyway).

Not to mention you would have Malkin for next season if you traded for him. Something that I think would send the message to Lundqvist, loud and clear, that the Rangers are serious about winning a Cup.
Pitt would ask for Stepan + McDonagh +

Willing to give that up?

Cost controlled, very good players.

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06-06-2013, 10:38 AM
  #775
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Originally Posted by MacTruck View Post
Sign Nystrom, Stalberg

Trade MDZ for Burmistrov, Stuart, pick

Trade Pyatt and Bourque for McLeod

Hagelin Stepan Nash
Zuccarello Brassard Callahan
Kreider Burmistrov Stalberg
Nystrom Boyle Dorsett
McLeod

McDonagh Girardi
Staal Stralman
Moore Stuart
McIlrath

Speed, size, skill... This should be the identity of the team moving forward.
Definitely the best I've seen on here. It would set us up great for now and the future. Maybe sign one right handed defensemen but hey, I'd be fine with that haha

The only difference I'd like is that I'd want Clowe instead of Stalberg. I personally don't see us getting him and I think Clowe would be a great piece to keep around, but he has to be healthy


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