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2013-14 Flyers Overhaul Part II

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Old
06-05-2013, 08:40 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
i bet you edmonton would trade 7 for couturier right now.
I'd consider it and draft 2 very likely to become top line defenders with the 7 , 11 picks and get free slurpees for a year!

Would allow us to trade Coburn, Mez, and a prospect or other picks for a good 1st or second line forward.

Imagine Nurse and Zadarov along with Shen, Grossman, and Lauridsen, holy crap teams would be fearing us.

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06-05-2013, 08:48 PM
  #277
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I'd consider it and draft 2 very likely to become top line defenders with the 7 , 11 picks and get free slurpees for a year!

Would allow us to trade Coburn, Mez, and a prospect or other picks for a good 1st or second line forward.

Imagine Nurse and Zadarov along with Shen, Grossman, and Lauridsen, holy crap teams would be fearing us.
We would probably be stuck in our zone for the whole season unless Nurse and Zadarov become great PMD's

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06-05-2013, 09:06 PM
  #278
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You need one good PMD on each tandem while the other stay at home types are still no slouches as clearing the puck or moving it out no matter how good or bad their skating. I think these guys with Gus could supply that, of course if you question Zadarov then you go with Risto. Besides defenders like these make it hard to come into our zone and harder to go to the corners in dumping anc chasing and then harder to lift their sore arms for shots, and even harder to see our goalie through the giants bodies. *L*
Remember Kjell Samuelson wasn't a PMD or good skater but he always was good at clearing or moving the puck up out of the defensive zone which always managed to be part of helping us score goals even if he didn't receive the assist and point for doing so.
Coburn is supposed to be fast and good at moving the puck yet can't seem to clear it and get it out of the zone, poor positioning, slow getting off the ice for line changes, and played poorly as his +- showed, and I was right, when he was sidelined we played better without him. Lauridsen is a cheaper alternative more stable defender with more intensity and hits. With Nurse and Zadarov you have Pronger and Chara 2.0 hopefully.

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06-05-2013, 09:24 PM
  #279
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You need one good PMD on each tandem while the other stay at home types are still no slouches as clearing the puck or moving it out no matter how good or bad their skating. I think these guys with Gus could supply that, of course if you question Zadarov then you go with Risto. Besides defenders like these make it hard to come into our zone and harder to go to the corners in dumping anc chasing and then harder to lift their sore arms for shots, and even harder to see our goalie through the giants bodies. *L*
Remember Kjell Samuelson wasn't a PMD or good skater but he always was good at clearing or moving the puck up out of the defensive zone which always managed to be part of helping us score goals even if he didn't receive the assist and point for doing so.
Coburn is supposed to be fast and good at moving the puck yet can't seem to clear it and get it out of the zone, poor positioning, slow getting off the ice for line changes, and played poorly as his +- showed, and I was right, when he was sidelined we played better without him. Lauridsen is a cheaper alternative more stable defender with more intensity and hits. With Nurse and Zadarov you have Pronger and Chara 2.0 hopefully.
You are right about being able to clear the zone. I was thinking more about being able to successfully break out of our zone on set plays and to create offense from the back end. It is an awful lot to ask of a couple young defenseman. I hope any player we draft can be pronger or Chara but those are two generational defenseman. Very unlikely they reach the status of those two

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06-05-2013, 10:59 PM
  #280
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TSN has its offseason plan for the Flyers online.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=424843

It's largely what we have said here, though calling Schenn "decent" is severely undervaluing what he did this season, especially when it was he and the AHL to mind the blue line. That's perhaps the most glaring omission; no indication of the eradication of the starting 6 defensemen at the latter part of the season. Plus, the write-up on Gustafsson is ho-hum. No mention of his stellar play with big minutes in the WJC.

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06-05-2013, 11:00 PM
  #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Well he did win him a cup so that has to count for something and posted a .916SV% in his last year under Lavi. I don't think Lavi's system is beneficial to the goalies but I don't think it's a detriment like you think. You also have to factor in that we really haven't had any good goalies that were polished under Lavi.

I'm not against getting rid of Lavi but that reason (if you could even call it one) is far down my list of reasons why to.
To support your point, there is also the finals run we made in 2010 with Boucher and Leighton, the worst tandem in the league most likely. That Laviolette team protected their crappy goalies, dominated puck possession and gave them ridiculously clutch goal support like I've not seen since. Ah **** Leights you spotted them three in the first period of game 7? We got you. This team was a monster under Laviolette when he had (almost) all the horses.

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06-06-2013, 12:52 AM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
To support your point, there is also the finals run we made in 2010 with Boucher and Leighton, the worst tandem in the league most likely. That Laviolette team protected their crappy goalies, dominated puck possession and gave them ridiculously clutch goal support like I've not seen since. Ah **** Leights you spotted them three in the first period of game 7? We got you. This team was a monster under Laviolette when he had (almost) all the horses.
That team also had Chris pronger still playing at an elite level and a younger Timonen probably playing the best hockey of his career...

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06-06-2013, 02:47 AM
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
That team also had Chris pronger still playing at an elite level and a younger Timonen probably playing the best hockey of his career...
This is true, 100% (not to mention the defensive ability of Powe, Betts, Richards, Gagne and Carter). He also had no 3rd pairing to speak of and two blind goalies. My assertion was that he was capable of coaching a great defensive team when he has the horses to do it. I still think that's a valid point.

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06-06-2013, 07:51 AM
  #284
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Well he did win him a cup so that has to count for something and posted a .916SV% in his last year under Lavi. I don't think Lavi's system is beneficial to the goalies but I don't think it's a detriment like you think. You also have to factor in that we really haven't had any good goalies that were polished under Lavi.

I'm not against getting rid of Lavi but that reason (if you could even call it one) is far down my list of reasons why to.
His .916 regular season came the year Lavy got fired halfway through, I don't feel like running the numbers but I'd bet Ward probably took off once Lavy was gone.

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06-06-2013, 07:57 AM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
This is true, 100% (not to mention the defensive ability of Powe, Betts, Richards, Gagne and Carter). He also had no 3rd pairing to speak of and two blind goalies. My assertion was that he was capable of coaching a great defensive team when he has the horses to do it. I still think that's a valid point.
Any team can have a good playoff run, it's only ~20 game sample size. The regular season, which gives a better understanding of the team was mediocre.

That playoffs, Laviolette basically ran his top 4 into the ground. But I guess your argument is that Laviolette's system works if you have an elite HOF defenseman, another top 15 guys, and then two more extremely competent guys to pair with them that he can put out there for 50 of the 60 minutes in a game. I'd say, ok, maybe Lavy's system works.

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06-06-2013, 08:59 AM
  #286
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My fantasy offseason would look like this

Buyout Bryz and Briere

Resign Gus and Hall

Sign Tim Thomas and Eriksson and let the three goalies battle it out.

Trade mez for anything we can get.

At the draft trade Read + 2014 First + whatever for Bobby Ryan
Trade Coburn + 2013 first +2013 Second + 2015 First and + 2016 if need be.

Sign a bottom Pairing defenseman to play with Gus or Grossmann

I would maybe sign Gagne to a cheap 1 or 2 year deal if we have space

Whatever happens I would keep Giroux, B. Schenn, Couts, Voracek, Simmonds, and L. Schenn

So a basic lineup of

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Bobby Ryan ($5.100m)
Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Tye McGinn ($0.775m) / Scott Laughton ($1.107m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Adam Hall ($0.700m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)
Jay Rosehill ($0.675m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Erik Gustafsson ($1.250m) / Shea Weber ($7.857m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Bruno Gervais ($0.825m)
Chris Pronger ($4.941m)
GOALTENDERS
Tim Thomas ($2.000m)
Steve Mason ($1.500m)
OTHER
Buyout: Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
Buyout: Danny Briere ($0.000m)
Buyout: Ilya Bryzgalov ($0.000m)
Buyout: Braydon Coburn ($0.000m)
Buyout: Andrej Meszaros ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,640,238; BONUSES: $2,800,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,459,762

We would still have 3.4 million to add to the bottom pairing or over 8 million with Pronger on LTIR to get another top 4 defender

Is it Completely realistic? No, probably not. But that would be about as good an offseason as we could have

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06-06-2013, 09:01 AM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Any team can have a good playoff run, it's only ~20 game sample size. The regular season, which gives a better understanding of the team was mediocre.

That playoffs, Laviolette basically ran his top 4 into the ground. But I guess your argument is that Laviolette's system works if you have an elite HOF defenseman, another top 15 guys, and then two more extremely competent guys to pair with them that he can put out there for 50 of the 60 minutes in a game. I'd say, ok, maybe Lavy's system works.
The defensive play of the team under Lavi went well beyond the 20 games and spanned two seasons, including time missed by Pronger.

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06-06-2013, 10:46 AM
  #288
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One good thing about this summer is we have a lot of useless players whose contracts are running out opening up some contracts slots:

Shelley, Knuble, Walker, Foster, Kessel, Wahl, Harper, Lilja

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06-06-2013, 10:54 AM
  #289
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
One good thing about this summer is we have a lot of useless players whose contracts are running out opening up some contracts slots:

Shelley, Knuble, Walker, Foster, Kessel, Wahl, Harper, Lilja
+Boucher (I love him, don't get me wrong)

There are also a host that won't be resigned most likely if the chatter is correct. Hall, Huskins, etc.

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06-06-2013, 11:26 AM
  #290
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
That team also had Chris pronger still playing at an elite level and a younger Timonen probably playing the best hockey of his career...
And two other Dmen who played a lot of hockey as their partners, carried a huge burden of the ice time: Matt Carle and Brayden Coburn.

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06-06-2013, 11:37 AM
  #291
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Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
+Boucher (I love him, don't get me wrong)

There are also a host that won't be resigned most likely if the chatter is correct. Hall, Huskins, etc.
To sum up:

12 contracts gone for sure: Briere, Shelley, Knuble, Walker, Foster, Kessel, Wahl, Harper, Lilja, Boucher, Huskins, Fedotenko.

3 probably gone: Hall, Gagne, Bryzgalov.

I'd like to see Hall back, but I'm sure they will keep Laughton instead.

Gagne's return will depend on price and role. There is really only one top 9 spot to fill (Briere's). This could be filled any number of ways: Jagr, Horton, Clowe, Clarkson, Bickell, Stalberg, MacArthur, Zubrus, Raymond, etc. Lots of possibilities, depending on Bryz's status.

Signed to contracts taking effect in July: Alt, Flanagan, Straka, Lamarche, Raffl.

Any others?

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06-06-2013, 12:28 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
His .916 regular season came the year Lavy got fired halfway through, I don't feel like running the numbers but I'd bet Ward probably took off once Lavy was gone.
Cam Ward's GAA, SV%, and Head Coach

2005-06: 3.68, .882, Laviolette
2006-07: 2.83, .897, Laviolette
2007-08: 2.75, .904, Laviolette
2008-09: 2.44, .916, Laviolette (fired)/Maurice
- First half (mostly Laviolette): 2.57, .911
- Second half (mostly Maurice: 2.30, .921

2009-10: 2.69, .916, Maurice
2010-11: 2.56, .923, Maurice
2011-12: 2.74, .915, Maurice (fired)/Muller

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06-06-2013, 12:41 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The defensive play of the team under Lavi went well beyond the 20 games and spanned two seasons, including time missed by Pronger.
What 2 seasons are you talking about?

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06-06-2013, 12:44 PM
  #294
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What 2 seasons are you talking about?
From 2009-10 to 2010-11, until the whole team hit the wall due to the long playoff run the year before. Then everyone with defensive skill was traded.

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06-06-2013, 12:49 PM
  #295
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Gagne's return will depend on price and role. There is really only one top 9 spot to fill (Briere's). This could be filled any number of ways: Jagr, Horton, Clowe, Clarkson, Bickell, Stalberg, MacArthur, Zubrus, Raymond, etc. Lots of possibilities, depending on Bryz's status.
Bickell would certainly be an interesting choice. He's a bit of a late bloomer and scouts are really loving his game because he finally "gets" it now. He's really thinking things through at the pro level and he's become quite comfortable in his role. He's probably going to have a lot of suitors though. Same with Clarkson. Horton is probably going to get between 5 and 6 on the open market and his concussion history is kind of scary. Viktor Stalberg would be a great target and I think he might be one of those under the radar type guys. I could see a very good line of Stalberg - Couturier and Read being a very good third line and a tough line to play against.

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06-06-2013, 12:49 PM
  #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
+Boucher (I love him, don't get me wrong)

There are also a host that won't be resigned most likely if the chatter is correct. Hall, Huskins, etc.
well, I didnt count those since I don't consider those guys comepletely "useless"

Huskins was a decent addition for us, Hall was fine on hte 4th line, and Boucher is ok as the vet in ADK

Also, Jagr should not be signed next season. I love the guy, but we have to head into a different direction

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06-06-2013, 12:49 PM
  #297
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Cam Ward's GAA, SV%, and Head Coach

2005-06: 3.68, .882, Laviolette
2006-07: 2.83, .897, Laviolette
2007-08: 2.75, .904, Laviolette
2008-09: 2.44, .916, Laviolette (fired)/Maurice
- First half (mostly Laviolette): 2.57, .911
- Second half (mostly Maurice: 2.30, .921

2009-10: 2.69, .916, Maurice
2010-11: 2.56, .923, Maurice
2011-12: 2.74, .915, Maurice (fired)/Muller
And Bryzgalov is at .909 and .900 under Laviolette but we want to amnesty him.

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06-06-2013, 12:52 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
And Bryzgalov is at .909 and .900 under Laviolette but we want to amnesty him.
Ward still outperformed his backups by a clear margin under Lavi. Bryzgalov can't even manage that, and that's a tremendous red flag.

Even ignoring his play, it's worth amnestying Bryz just to make that contract go away.

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06-06-2013, 12:54 PM
  #299
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And Bryzgalov is at .909 and .900 under Laviolette but we want to amnesty him.
Uhm yeah, Ward was at least breaking into the league at that point opposed to Bryz being in the league 7 years before he got here.

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06-06-2013, 12:55 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Ward still outperformed his backups by a clear margin under Lavi. Bryzgalov can't even manage that, and that's a tremendous red flag.

Even ignoring his play, it's worth amnestying Bryz just to make that contract go away.
I still think we should wait another season on him. As in, sit on him for another season, see how things go and see who can take the #1 spot. Amnesty him next off-season if you're going to do it mainly for the fact that there is a way better pool of goalies in the next off-season.

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