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Would the Habs benefit from a Heavyweight enforcer? Part 3

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Old
06-06-2013, 03:32 AM
  #901
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Originally Posted by andy28 View Post
We were getting pounded in fights all game. Players get frustrated and start fights even if you can't win them. Because they are seeking that justice. If you have a few people to do that for you, instead of people who have no business fighting, we might never have that brawl.
Outside of the line brawl, the three other fights in the game were between Carey Price and Tim Thomas, Travis Moen and Andrew Ference and David Krejci and Benoit Pouliot.

I question your memory if you think we were pounded in all those fights, especially as Pouliot and Price didn't take a punch between them....

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06-06-2013, 04:54 AM
  #902
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He's referring to when Spacek, a non-fighter was pounded. Along with a few others. A tough guy is a must. MB is going to get one.

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06-06-2013, 07:44 AM
  #903
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
So, what you're saying is, having one doesnt change a thing when it comes to winning games... took you a while to admit it.
what I know is that the toughness team in the in the east is at 1 win to be in the sc final while the softest as been eliminated the first

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06-06-2013, 07:57 AM
  #904
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Originally Posted by bud12 View Post
what I know is that the toughness team in the in the east is at 1 win to be in the sc final while the softest as been eliminated the first
Don't confuse him with facts. Fact is all four remaining teams carried and played enforcers all year. And have done so consistently. They've also won the last 4 Stanley Cups.

But we've got the Desharnais' and the Gionta's and half a dozen other softies and we don't need one (as Ottawa abused us in 5 games).

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06-06-2013, 08:02 AM
  #905
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Originally Posted by Corncob View Post
Outside of the line brawl, the three other fights in the game were between Carey Price and Tim Thomas, Travis Moen and Andrew Ference and David Krejci and Benoit Pouliot.

I question your memory if you think we were pounded in all those fights, especially as Pouliot and Price didn't take a punch between them....
Dear lord.

I question YOUR memory. Thornton destroyed Hamrlik. Old Spacek got dummied as well, and little Tom Pyatt got abused by Campbell.

You must be Dick Irwin.

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06-06-2013, 08:03 AM
  #906
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Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
Don't confuse him with facts. Fact is all four remaining teams carried and played enforcers all year. And have done so consistently. They've also won the last 4 Stanley Cups.

But we've got the Desharnais' and the Gionta's and half a dozen other softies and we don't need one (as Ottawa abused us in 5 games).
Who does Chicago have as an enforcer? Pittsburgh has Smackintyre but he's only played 1 game all year.

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06-06-2013, 08:16 AM
  #907
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They do. People who wear seatbelts die in cars, too. But the seatbelt gives a lot of people a better chance.
I like the seat belt analogy...

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06-06-2013, 08:17 AM
  #908
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
He's referring to when Spacek, a non-fighter was pounded. Along with a few others. A tough guy is a must. MB is going to get one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat
Dear lord.

I question YOUR memory. Thornton destroyed Hamrlik. Old Spacek got dummied as well, and little Tom Pyatt got abused by Campbell.

You must be Dick Irwin.
The fights with Spacek, Hamrlik and Pyatt all happened in the line brawl towards the end of the game. The post that I replied to clearly stated that 'We were getting pounded in fights all game' [prior to the line brawl] and made the claim that the line brawl might never have happened if that hadn't been the case.

Try to actually read things that you reply to guys?

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06-06-2013, 08:20 AM
  #909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
Who does Chicago have as an enforcer? Pittsburgh has Smackintyre but he's only played 1 game all year.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=93902
http://dropyourgloves.com/fights/FightCard.aspx?P=26751

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06-06-2013, 09:09 AM
  #910
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Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
Who does Chicago have as an enforcer? Pittsburgh has Smackintyre but he's only played 1 game all year.
Pittsburgh have Engelland.

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06-06-2013, 09:44 AM
  #911
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No no no, Habs need hooking and holding artists because it's definitely much more useful in the playoffs.

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06-06-2013, 10:52 AM
  #912
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
No no no, Habs need hooking and holding artists because it's definitely much more useful in the playoffs.
Gill seemed to be able to get away with that stuff a lot.

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06-06-2013, 11:06 AM
  #913
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I don't see how having an "enforcer" would promote the Habs into one of the top teams in the NHL.

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06-06-2013, 11:33 AM
  #914
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
I don't see how having an "enforcer" would promote the Habs into one of the top teams in the NHL.
and nobody said that. It's a peice that we don't have and that we could use often

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06-06-2013, 11:36 AM
  #915
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
I don't see how having an "enforcer" would promote the Habs into one of the top teams in the NHL.
Team toughness/size is the real issue here, and Montreal has none of it.

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06-06-2013, 11:52 AM
  #916
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Originally Posted by andy28 View Post
Gill seemed to be able to get away with that stuff a lot.
Well, he's a seasoned veteran after all.

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06-06-2013, 12:13 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
Who does Chicago have as an enforcer? Pittsburgh has Smackintyre but he's only played 1 game all year.
Bollig. Bollig played in 3 games against the Wild in this year's playoffs. The Wild have Konopka and Rupp so Chicago had no problem dressing Bollig in the playoffs.

Chicago did not need Bollig against the Red Wings so he was pressboxed. So far, they dont need Bollig against the Kings. So he is in the pressbox.

Chicago has done pretty well in matching up against other teams.

Edit.........for the record, in 25 games during the regular season and 3 playoff games, Bollig has ZERO goals and ZERO assists. Scoring points is not his job.

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06-06-2013, 12:25 PM
  #918
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I am going to post this pre-emptively since I know what the response regarding Bollig and Chicago will be.......

"They can do that because they have Toews, Kane, Sharp etc..."

2013 Regular Season Goals Scored

Chicago - 149
Montreal - 146

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06-06-2013, 12:33 PM
  #919
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I am going to post this pre-emptively since I know what the response regarding Bollig and Chicago will be.......

"They can do that because they have Toews, Kane, Sharp etc..."

2013 Regular Season Goals Scored

Chicago - 149
Montreal - 146
If they'd lost Hossa and Seabrook or similar core players like we lost Eller and Emelin and Gionta and Pacioretty they wouldn't have come back vs Detroit. The playoffs are a battle of staying healthy more often than not pre-conference finals. Similarly there's a pretty low chance we would have lost to the Sens if we'd been missing one player instead of five.

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06-06-2013, 12:35 PM
  #920
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Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
If they'd lost Hossa and Seabrook or similar core players like we lost Eller and Emelin and Gionta and Pacioretty they wouldn't have come back vs Detroit. The playoffs are a battle of staying healthy more often than not pre-conference finals. Similarly there's a pretty low chance we would have lost to the Sens if we'd been missing one player instead of five.
Wrong thread.

You can argue depth on the Timmins thread.

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06-06-2013, 12:38 PM
  #921
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
I don't see how having an "enforcer" would promote the Habs into one of the top teams in the NHL.
It wouldn't.

But it would give the smaller players more room against the 6-8 tougher teams in the NHL. Not a huge piece of the puzzle, but a piece nonetheless.

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06-06-2013, 12:38 PM
  #922
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habs should try to trade Moen for Tootoo. Wings like old player and bad **** don't like tough player. It would be a good start

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06-06-2013, 12:50 PM
  #923
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Team toughness/size is the real issue here, and Montreal has none of it.
It's statements like that that get everybody riled up and a lot of useless posts coming back.

Now the habs surely don't have the biggest or baddest team in the NHL but saying they have NO SIZE or NO TEAM TOUGHNESS is beyond ridiculous. Like saying it will rain for eternity because I wake up one morning and it's a downpour.

Having no size would mean everybody on the roster is below 6' and 200lbs. Where there are maybe 6 or 7 players that fit this description.

Last time I checked Pacioretty Bourque Eller Emelin Tinordi Drewiske Blunden Moen were all clearly above 6' and 200lbs.

No doubt we could use a bit more size, but it's hardly an epidemic. With a healthy lineup nobody was outmuscling or overpowering us in any games I can recall. The games we lost were because we played poorly or the other team played well, not because the Habs were "too small".

I'm not suggesting adding another big d-man or a bit more beef to the 3rd or 4th line is not a bad idea, but let's not get carried away!

In terms of team toughness I can list a lot of examples of guys coming to the defense of teammates, some won the fights others lost them, but if you know the definition of "team toughness" it's standing up for yourself and your teammates even if you may lose the fight.

We have guys that can play and can fight in Prust White Moen Bourque Bouillon plus Tinordi on the way. No doubt we could use a designated "enforcer" against certain teams at 800-900k to play 30-50 games a year. Maybe get Moen back to being Travis Moen and not Mathieu Darche.

The size/fighting/toughness issue isn't as big as most on here try to paint it.

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06-06-2013, 03:22 PM
  #924
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
It's statements like that that get everybody riled up and a lot of useless posts coming back.

Now the habs surely don't have the biggest or baddest team in the NHL but saying they have NO SIZE or NO TEAM TOUGHNESS is beyond ridiculous. Like saying it will rain for eternity because I wake up one morning and it's a downpour.

Having no size would mean everybody on the roster is below 6' and 200lbs. Where there are maybe 6 or 7 players that fit this description
No, you are in denial like previous management. This team is small down the middle, and plays small. This is a fact. 6' 180lb wingers who don't go into the corners aren't helping a team that is already small and lacking physical play.

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Last time I checked Pacioretty Bourque Eller Emelin Tinordi Drewiske Blunden Moen were all clearly above 6' and 200lbs.
... and last time I checked, Blunden and Drewiske weren't making this team any time soon. Tinordi isn't big, he's tall, he's built like Patrick Traverse still. Pacioretty doesn't play a physical game, it isn't his style and Bourque is 50/50 on how he plays. Emelin too the role of the only physical dman on this team, and look what happened? He's going out of his way to make hits, because nobody else is willing, or capbable of in the defensive zone.

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No doubt we could use a bit more size, but it's hardly an epidemic. With a healthy lineup nobody was outmuscling or overpowering us in any games I can recall.
Well there lies the irony, doesn't it? This team isn't big enough to even stay healthy, so how would we ever know? My goodness, the Sens ran over us at every chance, how was that series alone not yet another sign how pathetic this team matches up in a 7 game series? You think Emelin would have come in and made the difference? I think not.

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The games we lost were because we played poorly or the other team played well, not because the Habs were "too small".
Wrong, and now you sound like you are making excuses for management. That's like saying physical play isn't part of the game. Other teams focus on our lack of size, and physical play, and it works 99% of the time. I don't care about the regular season, it isn't a gauge of how this team should be judged. When it comes down to the post season this team isn't built to go past the first round.

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I'm not suggesting adding another big d-man or a bit more beef to the 3rd or 4th line is not a bad idea, but let's not get carried away!
Oh, but why bother at all if it has such little impact on the game? Next year when young Galchenyuk gets beaten into the ice, and our only response is 'Lets get them on the Power Play Boys!' , don't come crying over here.

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In terms of team toughness I can list a lot of examples of guys coming to the defense of teammates, some won the fights others lost them, but if you know the definition of "team toughness" it's standing up for yourself and your teammates even if you may lose the fight.
No, team toughness has more to do with rolling out an assembly of players at any given time to keep the other team honest, or change the pace/style of play. Are you kidding me right now? Team toughness isn't standing up to the other team and getting a beat down in the process, that's humiliating. Team Toughness is looking up and down your bench and thinking 'If this game gets out of hand, if the even think about taking liberties with our boys, we can counter'. The players think the exact same thing when they look down the bench, its a confidence builder knowing you have the toughness, size and grit to handle and response most teams can throw at you.

Montreal had this in 93, they lost it shortly after.

Quote:
We have guys that can play and can fight in Prust White Moen Bourque Bouillon plus Tinordi on the way. No doubt we could use a designated "enforcer" against certain teams at 800-900k to play 30-50 games a year. Maybe get Moen back to being Travis Moen and not Mathieu Darche.
Prust is a winner, but don't lump anyone else in there that you mentioned. Moen used to be that player, those days are gone, and Tinordi can't fight yet.

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The size/fighting/toughness issue isn't as big as most on here try to paint it.
Its everything that is wrong with this team, and that is an undeniable fact in my mind. If you think these talented rookies will develop without more players like Prust patrolling the lines, you are out to lunch. Or did you think there was another reason Prust was skating with the kids? lol.

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06-06-2013, 03:30 PM
  #925
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Pittsburgh have Engelland.
He's the kind of player we're lacking. Plus signing Ryane Clowe would also help much.

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