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Old
06-04-2013, 04:08 PM
  #901
Holkoun
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Letang is not D-man, he is a winger...:-)

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06-04-2013, 05:25 PM
  #902
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Most of the Pens board were willing to trade Letang last night.
He's an excellent player. They need a goalie. Crappy goaltending makes any D-man (even Chara) look bad.

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06-04-2013, 07:25 PM
  #903
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What about the slow speed passes? How many times were they intercepted this last season? The Sedin's seem to have lost quick release on shots, too and it shows.

]I love these players and have always marvelled at their abilities but the decline is very evident, IMO. Actually, I am surprised at the spirited defense of the twins. They are aging, how can that be in contention?
It's funny both the eye test and stats tell us that they have declined yet some do defend them as still being "elite". My guess it's part of the denial of the window being closed.

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The Sedins are a giant block of cap space and I hold, respectfully, that the time has come to move the Sedins for picks or prospects. Detroit looks like a good place for them. I'd trade both of them for Abdelkader. It isn't even a question of who or what you get back, the Sedins have had their kick at the cat. Vigneault's departure signified the end of the Sedin era because no other coach will use them as effectively. That's twelve million poorly spent, if they are kept.

I agree that it won't be the Sedins team moving forward but does Gillis have the balls to move them at the trade deadline next year (only time he can really do so with the 13 Cap situation) for any asset moving forward?

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06-06-2013, 08:57 AM
  #904
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If the Pittsburgh fan base is anything like ours they'll be looking to get rid of Crosby and/or Malkin this offseason. There's one deal I wouldn't mind making for the Sedins.


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06-06-2013, 09:39 AM
  #905
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We don't deserve the sedins as a fanbase

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Old
06-06-2013, 10:47 AM
  #906
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Originally Posted by Spamhuis View Post
We don't deserve the sedins as a fanbase
We don't deserve Henrick; Daniel is another matter. I fail to see why people keep 'lumping' these two players together? The best scenario for the Canucks would be for Daniel Sedin to retire, while Henrick continues to play. Henrick is still an excellent player. Daniel is not.

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06-06-2013, 11:06 AM
  #907
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We don't deserve Henrick; Daniel is another matter. I fail to see why people keep 'lumping' these two players together? The best scenario for the Canucks would be for Daniel Sedin to retire, while Henrick continues to play. Henrick is still an excellent player. Daniel is not.

Excuse me?

Daniel still put up 40 in 47 games this year. It was a mediocre shortened season for him, hardly much to read into. Retire indeed.

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06-06-2013, 11:14 AM
  #908
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I suppose the 520 forwards that scored less goals than Daniel should also retire. Every team should now ice just one line. Woo!

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06-06-2013, 11:14 AM
  #909
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Well I do not think Daniel should retire he has not been as good as his brother since Keith gave him the business.

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06-06-2013, 11:14 AM
  #910
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Trade all the "Henricks"!!!

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06-06-2013, 11:21 AM
  #911
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Originally Posted by BassMason View Post
Well I do not think Daniel should retire he has not been as good as his brother since Keith gave him the business.

There are some circles that believe goals should weighted more than assists. In that sense, Daniel has been better than Henrik for the majority of their respective careers. All in how you look at it.

That said, he's had one down year. A year where he still produced 40 in 47 games. Let's not infer too much just yet, even if the Keith hit is affecting him more than we know. There's just not enough information there yet.

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06-06-2013, 12:05 PM
  #912
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Daniel brought his Volvo in for service today. ( working on it now) I asked him who the coach will be and be said " it's Eakins if he wants it"

[mod]


Last edited by Tiranis: 06-06-2013 at 12:58 PM.
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Old
06-06-2013, 12:42 PM
  #913
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IMO the suggestions to trade the Sedins are simply not realistic.
They have 1 year left & NTCs.
If Gillis tried to trade them at the deadline next year I think they'd just refuse & then retire to play in Sweden the following year.

I think they really want to win a Cup here & are willing to stick around as long as that seems possible.
The key will be what they're willing to sign for after next year.
I'm kinda hoping they take big discounts & agree to a series of 1 year deals in the 3-3.5 mill per year range. They want to win a cup & they aren't too concerned about money. They're family men & are financially secure for the rest of their lives.
Taking a big discount on 1 year deals would also go a long way to securing their legacy with the Canucks, leaving practically nothing for anyone to criticize them for.

I think they'll be Canucks for their entire careers & retire on their own terms.

They do seem to have declining production & the more i think about it, the more I think it might be time to split them up. Daniels goal scoring might be declining but he's still the 2nd best playmaker on the team. Splitting them up might remove the "one too many passes" syndrome they've been demonstrating.

Something like:

Booth Henrik Kassian
Daniel Kesler Burrows

Give Daniel 2 big, strong, drive to the net, goal scoring wingers & gives Kesler the skilled playmaking winger he needs.
It would also remove the predictability that the Sedins have fallen into.

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06-06-2013, 12:51 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
We don't deserve Henrick; Daniel is another matter. I fail to see why people keep 'lumping' these two players together? The best scenario for the Canucks would be for Daniel Sedin to retire, while Henrick continues to play. Henrick is still an excellent player. Daniel is not.
This is lunacy.

And do you really fail to see why people lump them together?

You fail to see why?

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Old
06-06-2013, 01:01 PM
  #915
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Trade all the "Henricks"!!!
agreed.

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Old
06-06-2013, 01:17 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by ddawg1950 View Post
This is lunacy.

And do you really fail to see why people lump them together?

You fail to see why?
Henrick is still a very good first line player, while his brother is not, especially in the playoffs. That 6 million dollars of cap room could be better spent elsewhere. Perhaps on a bigger, tougher top line player? (Two Bickles for example) Of course it won't happen, but it would make the team more competitive, especially in the playoffs.

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Old
06-06-2013, 01:25 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Henrick is still a very good first line player, while his brother is not, especially in the playoffs. That 6 million dollars of cap room could be better spent elsewhere. Perhaps on a bigger, tougher top line player? (Two Bickles for example) Of course it won't happen, but it would make the team more competitive, especially in the playoffs.

What makes D.Sedin not a good first line player in the playoffs, but Henrik a good one? Is it PPG (both are at or near, over their tenure)? The fact that Daniel has scored more goals by comparison? Their vastly different play style...?

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06-06-2013, 01:39 PM
  #918
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It's funny both the eye test and stats tell us that they have declined yet some do defend them as still being "elite". My guess it's part of the denial of the window being closed.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=18514

Daniel Alfredsson put up his best point total at 33/34 after years of PPG production. No two players are enough to get that kind of production, it takes a team. We haven't had that team for a couple years. The team has declined much more than the twins have imo.

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Old
06-06-2013, 01:46 PM
  #919
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
What makes D.Sedin not a good first line player in the playoffs, but Henrik a good one? Is it PPG (both are at or near, over their tenure)? The fact that Daniel has scored more goals by comparison? Their vastly different play style...?
That's it. They do play a different game. Henrick is a more physical player - by far. He controlls the play more by maintaining puck possession. He has a far greater responsibility in the D-zone as well, where he uses his body a lot more than Daniel. He also stays on his skates more than Daniel, who is more easily knocked off balance. Maybe people are right, and Daniel's recent concussion has hurt him more than I realize, but his game is very soft - too soft. At this time, Henrick is a much better, and more valuable player to the team.

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06-06-2013, 01:51 PM
  #920
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
That's it. They do play a different game. Henrick is a more physical player - by far. He controlls the play more by maintaining puck possession. He has a far greater responsibility in the D-zone as well, where he uses his body a lot more than Daniel. He also stays on his skates more than Daniel, who is more easily knocked off balance. Maybe people are right, and Daniel's recent concussion has hurt him more than I realize, but his game is very soft - too soft. At this time, Henrick is a much better, and more valuable player to the team.
They did have a mediocre season indeed, how can our most expensive players filed to score PPG in the season? They weren't even our leading scorer for crying out loud (that belongs to Burrows).

The problem is even worse when they failed to score at all in the playoffs, sure, blame it on our leading scorer (kesler and burrows) for not supporting them.

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06-06-2013, 01:56 PM
  #921
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
That's it. They do play a different game. Henrick is a more physical player - by far. He controlls the play more by maintaining puck possession. He has a far greater responsibility in the D-zone as well, where he uses his body a lot more than Daniel. He also stays on his skates more than Daniel, who is more easily knocked off balance. Maybe people are right, and Daniel's recent concussion has hurt him more than I realize, but his game is very soft - too soft. At this time, Henrick is a much better, and more valuable player to the team.

I was being apparently (or not so based on the response) facetious with the play style comment. The twins have, and still do, play very much alike. I'm not seeing these significant differences that you are.

Both are great at controlling the puck. That's how they maintain possession. It isn't one guy holding onto the puck, it's both working off of each other to control it. Uses his body more? Each Sedin is great battling along the wall for the puck - another key facet of their style.

Neither player is all that physical.

Completely disagree on Henrik being far more valuable. I don't believe you are properly weighing the value of scoring goals here. The main criticism of Henrik has been that he doesn't shoot or score enough, which leaves Daniel to do all of that work. As a result, Daniel has been one of the more efficient scorers in the league for some time. These two are perfect compliments to each other, where one's weakness is made up by the other's strength. I'm not seeing one carrying the other at all.

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06-06-2013, 02:08 PM
  #922
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Originally Posted by Lindt View Post
If the Pittsburgh fan base is anything like ours they'll be looking to get rid of Crosby and/or Malkin this offseason. There's one deal I wouldn't mind making for the Sedins.

The only difference is that they are younger, and they have won the cup before so I would give Crosby/Malkin some slack if I am a Penguins fan. How can you have a chance to win if your goalie struggle like that?

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06-06-2013, 02:20 PM
  #923
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Henrick is still a very good first line player, while his brother is not, especially in the playoffs. That 6 million dollars of cap room could be better spent elsewhere. Perhaps on a bigger, tougher top line player? (Two Bickles for example) Of course it won't happen, but it would make the team more competitive, especially in the playoffs.
Well, once again, we find ourselves diametrically opposed in our view.

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06-06-2013, 02:49 PM
  #924
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I was being apparently (or not so based on the response) facetious with the play style comment. The twins have, and still do, play very much alike. I'm not seeing these significant differences that you are.

Both are great at controlling the puck. That's how they maintain possession. It isn't one guy holding onto the puck, it's both working off of each other to control it. Uses his body more? Each Sedin is great battling along the wall for the puck - another key facet of their style.

Neither player is all that physical.

Completely disagree on Henrik being far more valuable. I don't believe you are properly weighing the value of scoring goals here. The main criticism of Henrik has been that he doesn't shoot or score enough, which leaves Daniel to do all of that work. As a result, Daniel has been one of the more efficient scorers in the league for some time. These two are perfect compliments to each other, where one's weakness is made up by the other's strength. I'm not seeing one carrying the other at all.
Yes, I missed the sarcasm. I should have been more aware of your tone. My apologies there. I don't disagree with you at all on your comparison of the twins, if it was 2 seasons ago. Yes, at that time, both boys had close to equal value, with Daniel's value as a goal scorer. (I still saw Henrick as more valuable though, even then.) I see them now, especially as Daniel's goal totals have slipped, as having a gap in what they contribute on the ice. (We all know their off-ice contributions are amazing) I don't see Daniel's goal totals increasing again either. It will become even harder (with the game being called as it is now, especially in the playoffs) for him to get to the areas he needs to be to score. Henrick will still be effective as a play-making center, and be responsible defensively. That's why I see Henrick as having more value to the team, going forward. Do you see the twins ever signing contracts where one takes less than the other? I don't think so. As a result, Daniel will be paid on par with Henrick, and (therefore) a liability.

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06-06-2013, 02:56 PM
  #925
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Yes, I missed the sarcasm. I should have been more aware of your tone. My apologies there. I don't disagree with you at all on your comparison of the twins, if it was 2 seasons ago. Yes, at that time, both boys had close to equal value, with Daniel's value as a goal scorer. (I still saw Henrick as more valuable though, even then.) I see them now, especially as Daniel's goal totals have slipped, as having a gap in what they contribute on the ice. (We all know their off-ice contributions are amazing) I don't see Daniel's goal totals increasing again either. It will become even harder (with the game being called as it is now, especially in the playoffs) for him to get to the areas he needs to be to score. Henrick will still be effective as a play-making center, and be responsible defensively. That's why I see Henrick as having more value to the team, going forward. Do you see the twins ever signing contracts where one takes less than the other? I don't think so. As a result, Daniel will be paid on par with Henrick, and (therefore) a liability.


Daniel has, over the course of his playoff experience, matched or exceeded his expected goal totals. Statistically. This is based on his regular season output. So while I'm sure the narrative of him being unable to get to the dirty areas seems legitimate based on his season this year, it's not grounded in objective data.

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