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Old
06-06-2013, 02:57 PM
  #26
Uber Coca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Lol I like Him 25 30 goal scorer got some size
Size matters only if the player actually uses it. Stewart is useless more often than not and Plekanec is twice the player he'll ever be. Trading Plekanec for him would be quite the robbery by St.Louis.

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Old
06-06-2013, 02:57 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Pushing Galchenyuk into a top 2 center spot next yaer would be a big development mistake.
You mean like they did to that Steven fella in Tampa, uh?

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06-06-2013, 02:59 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
You mean like Subban, Norris trophy finalist or Galchenyuk who played great as an 18 year old or Gallagher who is the Calder favorite or Tinordi holding his own less than 1 year out of junior?

Seems like throwing guys into the fire has been successful for us.

To me keeping DD at the expense of Gal at center reminds me of the win at all cost mode (yet only finish 8th) pre-Bergevin. We're not going ever be a cup contender until Galchenyuk develops into a top line center.
Subban spent 4 years in Junior and a full season in the AHL.... not sure what you're getting at there. Gallagher 4 junior seasons and a half season in the AHL. Tinordi 4 seasons of junior hockey and 3/4 of a season in the AHL and protected minutes in the NHL.

Seems like all of these guys have been developed well....? I'm not talking in the last three years.

Nothing is written in stone and I'm sure we can expect to see Galchenyuk at center on the 3rd line or in the top-6 as a winger at some point this year. His development will be fine either way, he doesn't need to be rushed into a top-6 C role.

Our last bigger offensive prospect I was kind of excited about- Latendresse... 3 years junior, straight into the NHL. He busted... hard. I'd rather play it safe and not stunt a player's development.

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Old
06-06-2013, 03:00 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
At this point last season a very low percentage would have agreed with playing Galchenyuk major minutes in the NHL (assuming we would draft him) coming off a missed season and major knee injury. Yet taking that risk was a major highlight for all of us.

Same for Gallagher turning into a top 6 winger. He's too small and too weak. Yet again a major highlight for us.

So now we're turning back into play the mediocre vets over the potential young players who could turn into stars.
The lockout went a long way torwards Gallagher and Galchenyuk's success. Both guys would have probably been sent down with a full camp. They were that much ahead after a half year AHL and a half year OHL plus WJHC.

Both guys played most of the year with insulated ice time on the 3rd line, was hardly a huge risk. Had they failed they would ahve been sent back down.

Starting Galchenyuk as #1 or 2 center next yaer would be taking a risk.

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Old
06-06-2013, 03:04 PM
  #30
FlyingKostitsyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
You mean like Subban, Norris trophy finalist or Galchenyuk who played great as an 18 year old or Gallagher who is the Calder favorite or Tinordi holding his own less than 1 year out of junior?
Subban had his time in the AHL and joined the Habs when he was ready. He was not thrown into the fire.

Galchenyuk made the NHL as an 18years old but was not forced into a top6 role, he was given soft minutes and no pressure at all. Not thrown into the fire.

Gallagher earned his play time due to him being excellent and extremely competitive. He was not forced into a top6 role, and also had his time in the AHL despite a dominant performance at camp last year. Not thrown into the fire.

Tinordi spent most of his time in the AHL and only made the team after tons of injuries. Even then he was not forced into a key role.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
Seems like throwing guys into the fire has been successful for us.
Guys that were actually thrown into the fire : Price (the prime example, and he's had his struggles), Latendresse, Pacioretty (took him a while to take off, his confidence was nearly shot). What about Eller? He had a pretty difficult first year with us and was here mostly because he'd been acquired for Halak, he might have benefited from another year in the AHL. There are other examples but much fewer in recent years, thankfully.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
To me keeping DD at the expense of Gal at center reminds me of the win at all cost mode (yet only finish 8th) pre-Bergevin. We're not going ever be a cup contender until Galchenyuk develops into a top line center.
It has nothing to do with it. Galchenyuk is not a top line center yet. He won't magically become one if we ask him to and doing so won't help him become one. Its only going to put a world of pressure on his teen shoulders and will only stunt his development, not help it.

Patience.

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Old
06-06-2013, 03:10 PM
  #31
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People have to realize that Galchenyuk is the best forward prospect the Canadiens had in DECADES.

We're talking about a top-three pick in the draft. Huberdeau for instance was given big duties in Florida and responded well: 2nd in scoring on his team and Calder finalist. If he can do it, I can't see why Galchenyuk couldn't. I can't believe some of you still prefer using Desharnais on the first two lines.

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Old
06-06-2013, 03:14 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
DD's role should be warming the bench. You don't win with DD's in your lineup in the playoffs. You win with garbage goals in front of the net.

Put Pacioretty with Plekanec and Bourque and keep the Galchenyuk, Eller and Gallagher line together. Build your third line as your two-way line with Gionta and Halpern (and maybe Bickell), and your fourth line as your grit and experience line (Prust, White, Moen).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Passchendaele View Post
People have to realize that Galchenyuk is the best forward prospect the Canadiens had in DECADES.

We're talking about a top-three pick in the draft. Huberdeau for instance was given big duties in Florida and responded well: 2nd in scoring on his team and Calder finalist. If he can do it, I can't see why Galchenyuk couldn't. I can't believe some of you still prefer using Desharnais on the first two lines.
I don't think it's about him not being ready for top 6 mins but top 6 min at centre, Hub got top 6 min but on the wing not centre

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Old
06-06-2013, 03:17 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Uber Coca View Post
Size matters only if the player actually uses it. Stewart is useless more often than not and Plekanec is twice the player he'll ever be. Trading Plekanec for him would be quite the robbery by St.Louis.
True, Stewart doesn't really play that physical but can scrap, point I was making is that maybe going forward DD+ the return for Plek>Plek the return for DD, maybe not now but when Gally Eller are ready to be 1-2

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Old
06-06-2013, 03:17 PM
  #34
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Not yet.....

I don't want to give top 6 center spot to Galchenyuk
I want him to take it, stole it, work for it.

I think Eller is ready for top 6 duties, but then again: Eller took one of these spots with his great season.

I would keep Galchy on the wings, but move both Eller and Galchy on the second line

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Old
06-06-2013, 03:24 PM
  #35
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by Passchendaele View Post
You mean like they did to that Steven fella in Tampa, uh?
Tampa isn't Montreal. Plus Stamkos didn't miss his whole 17 year old season. At 18 he was overmatched in the NHL but came back at 19 and looked better.

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Old
06-06-2013, 03:38 PM
  #36
lou4gehrig
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Patience.
Wow bold and big font. Good for you.

Bergevin came from Chicago where Toews and Kane both played 18+ minutes a night as teenagers. We played Bealiue and Tinordi after less than 1 year in the AHL. We're signing our picks and trying to bring them to the AHL as soon as possible.

Get used to our young guys playing early.

Anybody who says MaxPac is a failed example of playing too soon, he's been our leading scorer two years in a row with DD as his center. Plus he had major injury from the Chara hit.

Price is a goalie. He's been successful in the past. And he's struggled. Is that because he was rushed? Maybe. Is he just inconsistent? Look a Fleury. Good enough to win a cup one year, and benched another.

For every Latendresse (a player who was rushed) there is a Ribeiro, Beauchemin, Boucher (players who were babied here only to go on to be major players for other shortly after leaving here).

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Old
06-06-2013, 03:52 PM
  #37
FlyingKostitsyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
Wow bold and big font. Good for you.

Bergevin came from Chicago where Toews and Kane both played 18+ minutes a night as teenagers. We played Bealiue and Tinordi after less than 1 year in the AHL. We're signing our picks and trying to bring them to the AHL as soon as possible.

Get used to our young guys playing early.
Beaulieu and Tinordi played limited time as call ups. Thats part of a good development process and not rushing. Neither were asked to step up as regular top6 defensemen last year. Rushing would have been to, for example, not sign Bouillon and have one of them with the time from the get go. Guess what? Bouillon is also signed next year. I wonder why..

Bringing to the AHL as soon as possible is a great way to control their development. We can give them a sip of NHL time as well. It doesn't mean we're going to force them to become top6 NHLers and top4 defensement at 20 yrs old.

And patience, bolded or not, is the thing fans usually don't have. Bad general managers also need more of it usually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
Anybody who says MaxPac is a failed example of playing too soon, he's been our leading scorer two years in a row with DD as his center. Plus he had major injury from the Chara hit.
Thats because he's really good. He was however in a really bad place and struggling mightily before going back down to the AHL were he belonged. You don't remember his first years here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
Price is a goalie. He's been successful in the past. And he's struggled. Is that because he was rushed? Maybe. Is he just inconsistent? Look a Fleury. Good enough to win a cup one year, and benched another.
Fleury is the best example of a rushed goalie. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
For every Latendresse (a player who was rushed) there is a Ribeiro, Beauchemin, Boucher (players who were babied here only to go on to be major players for other shortly after leaving here).
Ribeiro was not ''babied'' and simply traded away,Boucher has never been Habs property, Beauchemin was lost because Gainey failed to understand old waiver rules.

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Old
06-06-2013, 03:55 PM
  #38
lou4gehrig
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As for waiting for players to develop heres the age most of today's top players started playing regularly.
E Staal-20
J Staal-18
Kessell-18
Kane-18
Stamkos-18
Ovy-19
Crosby-18
Letang-20
Hall-18
Getzlaf-20
Tavares-18
Sedins-18
Duchene-18
Kopitar-19
Nash-18
Seguin-18
Carter-20
Backstrom-19
Thornton-18
Suter-20
Weber-20
Doughty-18

All those guys turned out alright despitr being "rushed".

I'm sure crawlingkastitsyn will say that these are all anomalies despite being the majority of the best players in the league.

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Old
06-06-2013, 04:05 PM
  #39
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
As for waiting for players to develop heres the age most of today's top players started playing regularly.
E Staal-20
J Staal-18
Kessell-18
Kane-18
Stamkos-18
Ovy-19
Crosby-18
Letang-20
Hall-18
Getzlaf-20
Tavares-18
Sedins-18
Duchene-18
Kopitar-19
Nash-18
Seguin-18
Carter-20
Backstrom-19
Thornton-18
Suter-20
Weber-20
Doughty-18

All those guys turned out alright despitr being "rushed".

I'm sure crawlingkastitsyn will say that these are all anomalies despite being the majority of the best players in the league.
There is a difference between "playing regularly" which Gallagher and Galchenyuk did last year and throwing an 18 or 20 year old kid on the 1st line against tough competition.

Doughty was drafted a late birthday so he would have been 19 his rookie year.

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Old
06-06-2013, 04:09 PM
  #40
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They both deserve a fair shot at taking Desharnais's spot but I'd be shocked if they could unseat Plekanec.

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Old
06-06-2013, 04:40 PM
  #41
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I see us going with 3 lines and 1 checking line.

C-Plekanec
C-Galchenyuk
C-Eller

Are there for the long run. The reason Galchenyuk played wing is because he was a rookie and the coach didn't want to put pressure on him.

I don't see Desharnais fitting in with this group.

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Old
06-06-2013, 05:57 PM
  #42
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Depends how they play but I most likely, no. I would love to see Eller become the regular no 2 centre and see Galchenyuk play more centre but I think asking them both to take another step forward next year is a bit much.

Look at Seguin, he's still often playing wing on the 2nd or 3rd line and he's affective in that role. Eventually, he'll be the no 1 or 2 centre but for now he's better off being insulated. I see Galchenyuk following a similar path.

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Old
06-06-2013, 05:58 PM
  #43
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When fans tell me Eller is ready to replace Plekanec, I laugh a bit. Eller plays an average of 14ish minutes a game, with a bit of pk time and usually no pp time. Plekanec plays an average of 20min a game, with a ton of pk time and half the pp time.

I think next year Plekanec will remain our first line center, and Eller will be our #2. I believe it is best for Galchenyuk's development that he remains a winger next season, and DD could be our 3rd line center with limited playing time. Eller and Galchenyuk abosultely need to start playing at least 16min a game in order to progress...but I really don't think either are ready to be top line centers, or for that matter, replace Plekanec.

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Old
06-06-2013, 05:59 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laboeuf View Post
I see us going with 3 lines and 1 checking line.

C-Plekanec
C-Galchenyuk
C-Eller

Are there for the long run. The reason Galchenyuk played wing is because he was a rookie and the coach didn't want to put pressure on him.

I don't see Desharnais fitting in with this group.
I'd like to see Plekanec eventually become the 3rd line centre that handles the defensive match ups and chips in offensively and have Galchenyuk and Eller as our 1-2. Add a RH FO specialist/checker as our 4C through the draft as some point.

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Old
06-06-2013, 06:31 PM
  #45
SNM87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Pushing Galchenyuk into a top 2 center spot next yaer would be a big development mistake.
Ya just like it was the wrong decision for Tampa to move Stamkos into a top 6 role his second year.........

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Old
06-06-2013, 06:34 PM
  #46
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Well i guess with Plekanec locked in as our #1 Center for a few more years we won't be hoisting that Cup for awhile. He would be a great 3rd line Center who kills penalties, but the guy is clueless on the PP, time to give some minutes to the younger core and get him and Gionta off the PP regularly.

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Old
06-06-2013, 06:39 PM
  #47
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Next year i would not be comfortable with Eller and Chuckie 1&2C, maybe the year after but not right now. What i would like to see is: Pleks, Eller and Chuckie (in order).

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06-06-2013, 07:16 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by SNM87 View Post
Well i guess with Plekanec locked in as our #1 Center for a few more years we won't be hoisting that Cup for awhile. He would be a great 3rd line Center who kills penalties, but the guy is clueless on the PP, time to give some minutes to the younger core and get him and Gionta off the PP regularly.
Clearly you don't watch many Habs games, because before Bourque got injured and after we acquired Ryder, the 1st line PP of both Bourque/Plekanec/Gionta and Ryder/Plekanec/Gionta were extremely good and our best by a large margin.

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Old
06-06-2013, 07:36 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by SNM87 View Post
Well i guess with Plekanec locked in as our #1 Center for a few more years we won't be hoisting that Cup for awhile. He would be a great 3rd line Center who kills penalties, but the guy is clueless on the PP, time to give some minutes to the younger core and get him and Gionta off the PP regularly.
Plekanec was good on the Powerplay, in fact I think if anyone should be given less PP time it's Desharnais. The guy is a good ES contributor but we should give some of his PP time to our younger guys as of next year.

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Old
06-06-2013, 07:58 PM
  #50
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Next season coming I think DD should be out of the picture, it should pleks,eller,gally and the year after it should go to gally eller and pleks.

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